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Big Andy

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Andy

[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=47308.msg1419513#msg1419513 date=1319989310]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47308.msg1419507#msg1419507 date=1319989000]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=47308.msg1419504#msg1419504 date=1319988760]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47308.msg1419492#msg1419492 date=1319987913]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=47308.msg1419487#msg1419487 date=1319987674]
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=47308.msg1419481#msg1419481 date=1319987387]
Too much is being made of the heavyish first touch. He improvised and finished really well and that's what counts.
[/quote]

Actually Wilko it was being used as an example of his mostly shite first touch - it wasn't a criticism of the goal per se - and the fact that Liverpool's #9 shouldn't have such a poor first touch.
[/quote]

Liverpool's number 9 is there to score goals
Bam
[/quote]

Bam ? Honestly ? Do you really believe it is that simplistic ?
[/quote]

What's a strikers job then?

What does Hernandez offer utd but goals?
[/quote]

Free Sinead O'Connor impressions?
[/quote]

Come on sumo be serious


Everyone knows that's his hobby not his job
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47308.msg1419505#msg1419505 date=1319988953]
Froggy, you keep mentioning how the touch wasn't that of a 35m striker

That's you mentioning the fee

Regardless of the fact he was in the top 3 of a fair few posters MOTM.

Regardless of the fact a lot of people said he's improved and played well yesterday.

Regardless of the fact we're struggling in front of goal

And tell me, why isn't he Liverpool standard? Ignoring the fee, tell me why a 22 year old, solid, mobile striker who tends to score quite regularly isn't good enough for s Liverpool side who rarely competed for top honours for the last 20 years?

I'm getting fucking sick of this "Liverpool quality " shit from people.
[/quote]

I mention the fee because I'm imagining what we could have spent 35M on, and that a player of 35M should have a fucking great touch - this though is the club's fault not his. I've said this many times.

If I had asked you a year ago to honestly name which ten strikers in Europe would you be happy with us buying in Jan 10 would Carroll have been anywhere near it ? And if not why not ? That will answer your question re. Liverpool quality.

Even at the risk of repeating myself umpteen times ..... I hope the bugger comes very very good ! However I think most people (probably out of desperation) have gone over the top in their assessment of AC based on one good and one decent performance (I don't think yesterday was good at all - he was shite for more than 30 mins but looked better, not brilliant, in the second half).
 
Let's ignore his Newcastle appearances then. After all that's irrelevant in building an opinion.

And big deal if he wouldn't be in my top 10 a year ago. None of those players are Liverpool quality.

They're higher than that.
 
[quote author=Lewy link=topic=47308.msg1419497#msg1419497 date=1319988223]
i wouldnt criticise the goal, i think that in itself is a bit of a paradox.

he has looked better recently, but i think thats because he was absolutely shite before that, honestly i think he's still got a lot of improvement to do, his touch still isnt great, he still got beat in the air loads, and as someone mentioned before his movement in the box is just nowhere near good enough at the moment. having said that he is improving all the time, and im confident that if he keeps getting games, especially alongside suarez, he'll improve drastically.
[/quote]

Hallelujah to the first bit, in total agreement. We'll just have to hope he comes good. He's young, there's potential, but he's got a shitload of improving to do.
 
Does he or does he not deserve to start, given the squad we have. That's the simple question.

Let's not sugarquote your hatred for a player by saying ...."i really do hope he comes good, but he is shite" etc etc...
 
Re: Re: Big Andy

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=47308.msg1419519#msg1419519 date=1319989802]
Does he or does he not deserve to start, given the squad we have. That's the simple question.

Let's not sugarquote your hatred for a player by saying ...."i really do hope he comes good, but he is shite" etc etc...
[/quote]

I like the term sugarquote
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=47308.msg1419519#msg1419519 date=1319989802]
Does he or does he not deserve to start, given the squad we have. That's the simple question.

Let's not sugarquote your hatred for a player by saying ...."i really do hope he comes good, but he is shite" etc etc...
[/quote]

I do not 'hate' him. That is a ridiculous comment.

Do I think he is good enough to start for us .... no, I don't, not yet, not in most matches anyway. Dirk is a better striker by far at the moment. Even Maxi is better and he's not even a striker !
 
Re: Re: Big Andy

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=47308.msg1419521#msg1419521 date=1319989988]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=47308.msg1419519#msg1419519 date=1319989802]
Does he or does he not deserve to start, given the squad we have. That's the simple question.

Let's not sugarquote your hatred for a player by saying ...."i really do hope he comes good, but he is shite" etc etc...
[/quote]

I do not 'hate' him. That is a ridiculous comment.

Do I think he is good enough to start for us .... no, I don't, not yet, not in most matches anyway. Dirk is a better striker by far at the moment. Even Maxi is better and he's not even a striker !
[/quote]

Dirk kuyt is the epitome of what Liverpool is about

Widely loved and popular support, but doesn't turn up til after Christmas.

kuyt has been DIABOLICAL so far this season. Has he scored yet?if so I'd wager less than Andy. Andy probably has less minutes too.
 
Interesting you should say Kuyt. His touch is of an acceptable level to you?

Also you would ignore cold hard facts that we seem to earn more points with him on the field. Yes the sample space is small, but so long as it remains true there is no harm in giving it a shot and seeing it for yourself, surely? How about you get behind the player till it is proved otherwise?
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=47308.msg1419524#msg1419524 date=1319990595]
Interesting you should say Kuyt. His touch is of an acceptable level to you?

Also you would ignore cold hard facts that we seem to earn more points with him on the field. Yes the sample space is small, but so long as it remains true there is no harm in giving it a shot and seeing it for yourself, surely? How about you get behind the player till it is proved otherwise?
[/quote]

I didn't say his touch is acceptable, stop trying to read into a comment something that isn't there, but it's still better than Carroll's ! Kuyt can go from the sublime to the ridiculous in the space of 1 minute, but as a STRIKER (not out on the right where he has most of his minutes this season) he is better than the current Carroll.

Why do I need to get behind this player ? Why not Kuyt ? Or Maxi ? He has been criminally ignored probably to give Carroll more time. When they are on the pitch they get my support, when we are debating in a forum then opinion is what the forum is all about. It's a strange/stupid comment to say 'get behind a player' on an internet forum.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47308.msg1419523#msg1419523 date=1319990368]
*refuses to be lulled into kuyt debate*
[/quote]

Come on Fabs .... *draws him out with a bone*
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=47308.msg1419526#msg1419526 date=1319991032]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47308.msg1419523#msg1419523 date=1319990368]
*refuses to be lulled into kuyt debate*
[/quote]

Come on Fabs .... *draws him out with a bone*
[/quote]

No! People are aware i don't think he's good enough for us and he isn't a big game player as often stated. Hes a liability until theres nothing to play for then he turns up....

God damn you froggy
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47308.msg1419536#msg1419536 date=1319992567]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=47308.msg1419526#msg1419526 date=1319991032]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47308.msg1419523#msg1419523 date=1319990368]
*refuses to be lulled into kuyt debate*
[/quote]

Come on Fabs .... *draws him out with a bone*
[/quote]

No! People are aware i don't think he's good enough for us and he isn't a big game player as often stated. Hes a liability until theres nothing to play for then he turns up....

God damn you froggy
[/quote]

Ha Ha Ha ! Yes, I was well aware 😉
 
We've picked up 6 points with Dirk and Luis upfront, and 12 with Andy and Luis.
I know which one I would pick.
 
Whaat?

So you think "support" is only shown when you are actually at the ground. Slating him left right and center away from the ground on an internet forum after he has contributed to another winning performance does not say anything about the support (or the lack of it) you show for a player? It's all about opinion? By that logic, i'm a prolific opinion spouter, but i have never been a LFC supporter.

let's face it......You are nit-picking flaws in his game to justify your earlier harsh opinion on him that he was not worth 35 million, even when he is actually contributing on the pitch. The stats are showing we score more points when he is on the pitch compared to when Kuyt is on the pitch. They both have inconsistent first touch ( i want youtubia for this Kuyt's sublime first touch you speak off), one of them is 22 and still rough around the edge with potential to improve, the other is 30+ and wysiwyg, yet you won't concede that the younger player deserves his place in the starting eleven to work on his form, and also insist on being the grumpy old cynic who says "BUT BUT BUT....did you see that horrible touch before he scored!!!! OMG What a waste of space", and you wonder why peopled call you up on that?

Don't get me wrong, i have been a fan of Kuyt for long, but i think his time as a regular starter is over. He is 30+, and i'd much rather we give Andy Carroll that time on the pitch to work on his flaws, whatever it is.

I'm saying wait till he actually fails to write him off as 35 million Bobby Zamora. He is here, he is stuttering but he is still standing, and our team is well-off for it. With more games and increased confidence, who knows, may be there is at least a 20 million pound player in there.
 
Though I agree with the general sentiment of kingjulian et al, please don't use stats from a handful of games to back up your position. Even if we had 2 seasons worth of stats to measure Carroll's value to the team, most of the numbers you throw around would still be of dubious value. Let us just trust our eyes and judgement instead.
 
Julian. Yes of course if you want to slate a player then you do it on here, or in the pub or fucking wherever .... but you support him during the match. Fuck me just read any thread in here and you'll see everyone bar Suarez getting a slagging off from someone or other. Poor forum this would be without any debate ! I can see you running around like a fucking mad march hare trying to berate everyone for daring to voice their negative opinion of a player.

As regards starting Carroll week in week out .... why don't you answer my question re. Maxi ? I mean he has a better goal-scoring record than Carroll. Fact is this, people are calling for him to be given a run in the team 'to improve his confidence' and get him scoring .... but at what cost ? Should the team be weakened to accommodate him so he can gain his confidence ? Should we drop points if it doesn't work out ?

Another fact is the best football we have played under KD was in the 2nd half of last season ... without Carroll. Now he is here and he is going to be played, but this is where I differ from most of you (and I knew I was going to get a kicking when I made that post on Page 4 !) is that I believe he has to earn it not be given a place in the team because of his price tag, not because of a couple of performances that are a level above the dross he served up earlier, and not because he needs to gain confidence.

It's hardly a sugarquote to say I want him to succeed - why wouldn't I ? I have supported Liverpool for the best part of 50 years and I want to see us back where we belong .... right at the bloody top.

That said the team should come first not Andy Carroll. Let's play our football and take the points first, he should play when it best suits the team not him, and to his credit KD seems to have, mostly, done that so far.
 
[quote author=iseered link=topic=47308.msg1419552#msg1419552 date=1319995469]
Though I agree with the general sentiment of kingjulian et al, please don't use stats from a handful of games to back up your position. Even if we had 2 seasons worth of stats to measure Carroll's value to the team, most of the numbers you throw around would still be of dubious value. Let us just trust our eyes instead.
[/quote]

Well said young man.
 
[quote author=iseered link=topic=47308.msg1419559#msg1419559 date=1319995816]
I am 35.
[/quote]

Exactly. I was shagging the local talent before you were even born 😉
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=47308.msg1419561#msg1419561 date=1319995993]
[quote author=iseered link=topic=47308.msg1419559#msg1419559 date=1319995816]
I am 35.
[/quote]

Exactly. I was shagging the local talent before you were even born 😉
[/quote]

are you saying you could be his dad?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47308.msg1419563#msg1419563 date=1319996029]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=47308.msg1419561#msg1419561 date=1319995993]
[quote author=iseered link=topic=47308.msg1419559#msg1419559 date=1319995816]
I am 35.
[/quote]

Exactly. I was shagging the local talent before you were even born 😉
[/quote]

are you saying you could be his dad?
[/quote]

Bloody hell never thought of it that way .... hope he's not from around the Liverpool area (I'm not sure condoms had even been invented then) !
 
So since it has been used a few times already, has "sugarquote" officially entered the scm vocabulary (along with such gems as pre-madonna, the full dreamy, etc)? And Frog I wouldnt worry.
 
[quote author=iseered link=topic=47308.msg1419571#msg1419571 date=1319996359]And Frog I wouldnt worry.
[/quote]

*wipes brow and tells wife there's no need to change the will*
 
[quote author=iseered link=topic=47308.msg1419559#msg1419559 date=1319995816]
I am 35.
[/quote]

worst. will smith film. ever
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47308.msg1419596#msg1419596 date=1320000949]
[quote author=iseered link=topic=47308.msg1419559#msg1419559 date=1319995816]
I am 35.
[/quote]

worst. will smith film. ever
[/quote]

Hahahaha. I lolled at that.
 
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