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Big Andy

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Today no but we have in the past. I agree. Got to stick with him, he's starting to show his worth. Let's be honest there is no way we are going to sell him for a massive loss, hes here for at least the next 3 seasons, so we need to get behind the lad and hope he can do the stuff he's paid for.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47308.msg1419244#msg1419244 date=1319936685]
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=47308.msg1419243#msg1419243 date=1319936227]
I think if we play better with Andy in the side, then it is great. My main worry was we'd start playing hoof ball and loose out on the nice brand of football we have played under Kenny. Keep the ball on the deck most the time, use him as another option should equal a well balanced effective side.
[/quote]

Did we play hoof ball tonight? We did play some long passes, but they were that, passes. He did alright tonight but he can offer so much more. Stick with it I say.
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Exactly. And people keep looking at the recipient, Martin and Daniel (how English is that!) played good football tonight and criminally, it's one of the rare times we've seem them together. Agger is top drawer when fit though, it has to be said. Him and Skrtel look capable of holding the opposition.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=47308.msg1419255#msg1419255 date=1319947298]
Agger is top drawer when fit though, it has to be said.
[/quote]


Ah....i see you have finally come around.
 
Well I sense a reverse in the flow of opinion over Carroll here.

I hope he comes good, very good, I really do as that will mean we will be up there challenging at long last. However I just don't see it, he doesn't have the techincal ability or 'footballing brain', he is all brawn and little finesse.

I love watching Saurez, Adam, Gerrard and Bellamy in and around the box, thoughtful little dinks through the defence and darting runs. Yesterday one episode near the end of the game epitomised AC for me, we had a break away and Bellers cut in from the left, Carroll in is the centre but well marked, Downing is wide right. Bellers can't go for goal and is looking for options but Carroll stays rooted to the spot, unmoving, like a fucking Oak tree, not creating space, not dragging defenders anywhere, not offering himself as an option, he was just a spectator like the guy in row 24C, eventually Bellers' only option was a sublime 30 yd pass right across the penalty area to Downing ... who hit the post.

I'll say it again, had we bought Dzeko instead of Carroll we would be right up there. A fox in the box picking up all the loose balls, and there are lots of them when Suarez runs around in there, that we don't have. A player that instinctively knows where the fucking goalposts are FFS and knows they are not in Row Z.

Carroll was not bought for this season, players like him and Henderson are all about the future (and 35M was far too much to pay for a gamble on the future), which is why we picked up Adam and Bellers for the next couple of seasons. I really don't think I have felt this negatively against one of our players in a long long time and I know it's not so much Carroll's fault as the price tag hanging around his neck. If only we had spent that money more wisely.
 
So you didnt see the 3-4 one touch lay off he had for Henderson, Suarez inside the box? Think he has proved in the last two games that he can link up very well on the ground and pass it quickly.
The one episode you're talking about was in stoppage time aswell, leading 2-0. And Carroll actually runs and works a helluva lot in games according to Opta.

Showed improvement and got a goal. He's on the right track now. Just needs games.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=47308.msg1419263#msg1419263 date=1319956106]
So you didnt see the 3-4 one touch lay off he had for Henderson, Suarez inside the box? Think he has proved in the last two games that he can link up very well on the ground and pass it quickly.
The one episode you're talking about was in stoppage time aswell, leading 2-0. And Carroll actually runs and works a helluva lot in games according to Opta.

Showed improvement and got a goal. He's on the right track now. Just needs games.
[/quote]

What has stoppage time got to do with anything ? He was already in the box - but he just stood there like a plank. You can not convince me (or anyone with any sense) that he has a great touch, he doesn't (and for 35M he should have). it is something he must work on but at the moment he is no more than average at best (and I don't think he's that). You pulled out one passage of play as an example but against the other 3 he bollocks up (that's a ratio not a reference to the match) doesn't work for me and it leads to far more breakdowns in attack than it should.
 
You can blame Andy for things like his touch and his mobility, but please stop blaming him for his fee. He didnt set it.
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47308.msg1419288#msg1419288 date=1319968956]
You can blame Andy for things like his touch and his mobility, but please stop blaming him for his fee. He didnt set it.
[/quote]

Yup i agree with that.

His touch can improve too. Not every striker needs to be as agile as messi though.
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47308.msg1419288#msg1419288 date=1319968956]
You can blame Andy for things like his touch and his mobility, but please stop blaming him for his fee. He didnt set it.
[/quote]

Exactly. And he wasn't a panic buy as some have suggested. Kenny has always liked players like Andy (see Shearer and Sutton), although we were linked with him even while Roy was in charge. The fee was what it was because unlike the previous regime, the manager, ceo and owners were aligned around what was needed and did everything necessary to make the deal happen in the short period of time before the window closed. Under Rafa-Parry-H&G it would never have happened...we were just too slow and cautious for the market in those days.
 
Someone said his goal was lucky or he almost fucked it up, I thought it was fucking brilliant the way he slotted it under the Goalie and into the net.......
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47308.msg1419315#msg1419315 date=1319972710]
Someone said his goal was lucky or he almost fucked it up, I thought it was fucking brilliant the way he slotted it under the Goalie and into the net.......
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It was, but I did think at the time that he'd messed it up, his first touch for the goal was terrible but he got away with it with a great finish.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=47308.msg1419324#msg1419324 date=1319973293]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47308.msg1419315#msg1419315 date=1319972710]
Someone said his goal was lucky or he almost fucked it up, I thought it was fucking brilliant the way he slotted it under the Goalie and into the net.......
[/quote]

It was, but I did think at the time that he'd messed it up, his first touch for the goal was terrible but he got away with it with a great finish.
[/quote]

It was a nicer, or at least more dramatic finish than it needed to be due to his poor first touch on the ball....

Im hoping he will have a Dzeko like awakening...
 
A fairly average performance against a WBA side which was completely disorganised and lacking in fight does not change my concerns about Andy Carroll.

There's a far better player in there than we've seen so far. He's got to bring it.
 
i dig the vibe about him and suarez looking better together, definitely. there's a beginning of something there - it has to be cultivated now by starting them whenever possible. still, i thought he got lucky with the goal yesterday, he really did almost fuck it up. but then i think he's reliant on confidence a lot, so i'm sure he'll be taking those chances much more clinically as that improves.

my worry is if we play a straight 4-4-2, we don't have the midfielders to make it work. henderson, adam and lucas, imo, all work better in a central 3, and our wide options are pretty dismal as well. i think if we continue with suarez and carroll up top, i'd want a central 2 of lucas (excellent yesterday) and gerrard, one of the wings occupied by downing (only cos there's no-one else) and the spare creative role to be fought over by dirk, henderson, johnson, maxi, adam, and bellamy.
 
Some people are saying he got lucky with the goal and that is wasn't the cleanest of strikes. That's just how it goes. How about the bullet header that was stopped by a handball or the thunderbolt shot towards the end that had to be kept out? He couldn't have hit those any better and yet they didn't go in.
 
I couldn't give 2 shites if it went in off his arse when he fell over

A goal is a goal and as long as he scores them i couldn't give a toss
 
i'm not making any grand statement. i just think he got lucky with the finish, and i also think his finishing will get much better (as it was at newcastle) as he gians confidence. the point about him getting lucky is that as often as not his poor touch and tentativeness would've cost him - that is surely relevant.
 
yeah, the actual finish was quality. i still think that he made it difficult for himself, though, and that's the point: the harder you make it, the less chance you have of redeeming yourself with a clever finish. i don't know why this should be controversial: it wasn't a clinically taken chance. it just wasn't.
 
When he and Suarez start together we have a better chance of winning games. 12 points with both starting and 6 without.

No brainer really.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=47308.msg1419422#msg1419422 date=1319983754]
When he and Suarez start together we have a better chance of winning games. 12 points with both starting and 6 without.

No brainer really.
[/quote]

i sort of agree, but of course it's daft to suggest that one necessarily follows from the other.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=47308.msg1419417#msg1419417 date=1319983144]
I thought he made a fantastic re-adjustment of his feet/body to finish like he did.
[/quote]

Because he almost fucked up !
 
He scored though

He could have slipped on the ball to set himself up and I wouldn't care


He

Fucking



Scored
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=47308.msg1419440#msg1419440 date=1319985140]
[quote author=themn link=topic=47308.msg1419417#msg1419417 date=1319983144]
I thought he made a fantastic re-adjustment of his feet/body to finish like he did.
[/quote]

Because he almost fucked up !
[/quote]

Are you being obtuse and tedious on purpose?


You have succeeded.
 
Nobody denied that he scored but I get an impression that some would nearly have preferred if he hadnt, so they could castigate him for the fuckup.
 
We've struggled for goals for weeks

Our striker scores

"He could have took a better touch "

Fucking despair
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47308.msg1419453#msg1419453 date=1319986352]
Nobody denied that he scored but I get an impression that some would nearly have preferred if he hadnt, so they could castigate him for the fuckup.
[/quote]

Nah .. we've enough on our plate with Downing at the moment
 
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