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[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46456.msg1380809#msg1380809 date=1313485996]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46456.msg1380805#msg1380805 date=1313485843]
I'd play the same side again.
flannigan is a better defender than kelly, which will be important when arsenal attempt to play triangles around us and henderson wont be as cautious again.
[/quote]

Henderson needs to watch on and show he's ready when he's given a chance, there were too many changes on Saturday and two many new players, Kuyt needs to be back in there. And it's not kneejerk against Henderson, he's looked distinctly average and out of his depth throughout preseason aswell, Kuyt has proven himself time and time again against the big sides.
[/quote]

Quite, Kuyt is one of the characters on the pitch who takes change of the team, a leader, we need him out there. I think we lacked that on saturday, especially in the second half. Suarez was one, as was Carra, I think Adam will be with time. But that was all. With Kuyt on the pitch on Saturday I don't think we'd have drifted out of the game so much at the beginning of the second half.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46456.msg1380809#msg1380809 date=1313485996]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46456.msg1380805#msg1380805 date=1313485843]
I'd play the same side again.
flannigan is a better defender than kelly, which will be important when arsenal attempt to play triangles around us and henderson wont be as cautious again.
[/quote]

Henderson needs to watch on and show he's ready when he's given a chance, there were too many changes on Saturday and two many new players, Kuyt needs to be back in there. And it's not kneejerk against Henderson, he's looked distinctly average and out of his depth throughout preseason aswell, Kuyt has proven himself time and time again against the big sides.
[/quote]

I wont have a problem if kuyt is picked over henderson at the weekend, I'm saying 'I' would pick henderson. henderson, adam and downing were in the top 8 for chances created and I would be doing my level best to tap into that, I certainly would pay 16m for him and then play a striker who looks distinctly average at right midfield (but excellent through the middle) ahead of him. have the strength of your convictions. we payed a fortune for henderson because he is one of the best creaters in the league, so let him create.

whatever, we'll see who kenny picks at the weekend.
 
We should wait til the end of the season before making any judgements.

Spidey you've been banging on about last seasons chance creation stats for a while now and I would hazard a guess that your placing way too much emphasis on them.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46456.msg1380818#msg1380818 date=1313486585]
We should wait til the end of the season before making any judgements.

Spidey you've been banging on about last seasons chance creation stats for a while now and I would hazard a guess that your placing way too much emphasis on them.
[/quote]

I am (putting my faith in stats) but what else do I have to go on? I've seen little of henderson at coventry and s'land but what I HAVE seen is kuyt ineffectiveness at RIGHT MIDFILED. I thought kuyt gave a masterclass of hold up play at chelsea away last season (THROUGH THE MIDDLE), kuyt scores and creates (THROUGH THE MIDDLE) kuyt is one of the most effective strikers in the league (THROUGH THE MIDDLE),

but at WIDE MIDFIELD I'm not going to beat around the bush, I don't rate kuyt at all. so yes, I want to put my faith in a kid who (on paper) will create more than kuyt, who will actually play as a wide midfielder, who will rarely give the ball away, who has the pace to join attacks from a deep position. kuyt should be used as a striker where he undoubted quality is best served.

I don't want to see kuyt at right midfield this season.
 
You think last seasons chance creation stats are meaningful and relevant to us this season?

Things to consider
1. Sample sizes
2. How is the stat counted?
3. Is it in any way predictive?


It strikes me as a less stupid stat than assists, but I wouldn't trust it at all
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46456.msg1380828#msg1380828 date=1313487575]
You think last seasons chance creation stats are meaningful and relevant to us this season?

Things to consider
1. Sample sizes
2. How is the stat counted?
3. Is it in any way predictive?


It strikes me as a less stupid stat than assists, but I wouldn't trust it at all
[/quote]

Oh, I know there are factors

1. more was going through henderson at s'land than will at liverpool.
2. henderson took set pieces (I just don't see that happening at liverpool)

but he was still the creater of loads of chances. maybe after seeing 10 games I will change my opinion of him but for right now I want to see at midfielder at right midfield. if we don't trust henderson (and kenny trust him, he wouldn't have given him a debut on the first game of the season otherwise) then go with maxi (a right midfielder). if kuyt HAS to play then drop carroll.
 
[sub][/sub]Carroll will give the Arsenal CBs a nightmare so although I like the forward line of Kuyt------Suarez-----Downing I'd still go for a 4-3-3 with Carroll at CF, Suarez on the Left and Downing on the right.

At the back it looks like either Skrtel or Agger or both will be fit for the match, if Agger's recovered then it must be Carra- Agger - Enrique so that leaves RB and for me it's Johnson if fit and Kelly if he's not.

In the centre I'd go with Lucas as he has performed more often than not against the top teams and Miereles/Adam ahead of him, so :

---------------Reina----------------
Johnson--Carra---Agger----Enrique
(Kelly)
-----------------Lucas
----------Adam------Meireles
Downing--------------------Suarez
---------------Carroll
 
So you see the limitations in the stats and why what Henderson did last year is irrelevant because he'll be used differently. It just comes down to Kuyt hate then.
 
So you see the limitations in the stats and why what Henderson did last year is irrelevant because he'll be used differently. It just comes down to Kuyt hate then.
 
Re: arse

I agree with froggy. Kuyt on for carroll when it isn't working
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46456.msg1380833#msg1380833 date=1313488068]
So you see the limitations in the stats and why what Henderson did last year is irrelevant because he'll be used differently. It just comes down to Kuyt hate then.
[/quote]

it isn't hate, I don't 'hate' kuyt, I just don't want to see him at right midfield. if plays up front or we go 4-3-3 then I have no problem with him.
 
I wish we'd bought a strong, mobile DM like Tiote or M'Vila rather than spending 16m on Henderson, who seems to have no particular position or usefulness in the current side.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=46456.msg1380832#msg1380832 date=1313487891]
[sub][/sub]Carroll will give the Arsenal CBs a nightmare so although I like the forward line of Kuyt------Suarez-----Downing I'd still go for a 4-3-3 with Carroll at CF, Suarez on the Left and Downing on the right.

At the back it looks like either Skrtel or Agger or both will be fit for the match, if Agger's recovered then it must be Carra- Agger - Enrique so that leaves RB and for me it's Johnson if fit and Kelly if he's not.

In the centre I'd go with Lucas as he has performed more often than not against the top teams and Miereles/Adam ahead of him, so :

---------------Reina----------------
Johnson--Carra---Agger----Enrique
(Kelly)
-----------------Lucas
----------Adam------Meireles
Downing--------------------Suarez
---------------Carroll
[/quote]

This, I'd be very [size=18pt][size=14pt][size=12pt]confident [/size][/size][/size] of [size=18pt]winning[/size] with this [size=24pt]side[/size]
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=46456.msg1380841#msg1380841 date=1313489618]
I wish we'd bought a strong, mobile DM like Tiote or M'Vila rather than spending 16m on Henderson, who seems to have no particular position or usefulness in the current side.
[/quote]

*2

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=46456.msg1380842#msg1380842 date=1313489659]
And that isn't kneejerk because I said it at the beginning of the summer.
[/quote]

*2

[size=4pt]I'd kill to have Masher back.[/size]
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=46456.msg1380841#msg1380841 date=1313489618]
I wish we'd bought a strong, mobile DM like Tiote or M'Vila rather than spending 16m on Henderson, who seems to have no particular position or usefulness in the current side.
[/quote]

an opinion based on one game?
 
Re: arse

Nah spide it's not, he said he didn't want henderson before it
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46456.msg1380849#msg1380849 date=1313491322]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=46456.msg1380841#msg1380841 date=1313489618]
I wish we'd bought a strong, mobile DM like Tiote or M'Vila rather than spending 16m on Henderson, who seems to have no particular position or usefulness in the current side.
[/quote]

an opinion based on one game?
[/quote]

Arggghhh. Neil, he's not a natural right midfielder, certainly not one with the attributes we need, like pace and trickery. He might be a good player, he might end up being a future central midfielder for us, but we have a dearth of similar players in Ming, Aquilani, Adam, Gerrard so it was a signing we could have gone without and a quick attacking wide player or defensive midfielder may well have been money better spent. It's not a judgement based on one game, it's a judgement based on the fact that neither Lucas or Spearing are really top drawer as DM's. Everyone knows that and that's based on watching them play more than 'one' game.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46456.msg1380854#msg1380854 date=1313491700]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46456.msg1380849#msg1380849 date=1313491322]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=46456.msg1380841#msg1380841 date=1313489618]
I wish we'd bought a strong, mobile DM like Tiote or M'Vila rather than spending 16m on Henderson, who seems to have no particular position or usefulness in the current side.
[/quote]

an opinion based on one game?
[/quote]

Arggghhh. Neil, he's not a natural right midfielder, certainly not one with the attributes we need, like pace and trickery. He might be a good player, he might end up being a future central midfielder for us, but we have a dearth of similar players in Ming, Aquilani, Adam, Gerrard so it was a signing we could have gone without and a quick attacking wide player or defensive midfielder may well have been money better spent. It's not a judgement based on one game, it's a judgement based on the fact that neither Lucas or Spearing are really top drawer as DM's. Everyone knows that and that's based on watching them play more than 'one' game.
[/quote]

well anyway, kuyt isn't the answer for me at right midfield. I thought henderson did 'okay', he kept it simple and I like his houghton-esque run into the box in the first ten minutes if he picked again and at the weekend and puts in another timid performance then maybe I will change my view (probably not) but even if I write off henderson at right midfield and then I will start calling for maxi to start at right midfield. I want a midfielder at right midfield, I want creativity down the right hand side not a striker who starting position 'happens' to be on the right.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46456.msg1380856#msg1380856 date=1313492305]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46456.msg1380854#msg1380854 date=1313491700]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46456.msg1380849#msg1380849 date=1313491322]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=46456.msg1380841#msg1380841 date=1313489618]
I wish we'd bought a strong, mobile DM like Tiote or M'Vila rather than spending 16m on Henderson, who seems to have no particular position or usefulness in the current side.
[/quote]

an opinion based on one game?
[/quote]

Arggghhh. Neil, he's not a natural right midfielder, certainly not one with the attributes we need, like pace and trickery. He might be a good player, he might end up being a future central midfielder for us, but we have a dearth of similar players in Ming, Aquilani, Adam, Gerrard so it was a signing we could have gone without and a quick attacking wide player or defensive midfielder may well have been money better spent. It's not a judgement based on one game, it's a judgement based on the fact that neither Lucas or Spearing are really top drawer as DM's. Everyone knows that and that's based on watching them play more than 'one' game.
[/quote]

well anyway, kuyt isn't the answer for me at right midfield. I thought henderson did 'okay', he kept it siand I like his houghton-esque run into the box in the first ten minutes if he picked again and at the weekend and puts in another timid performance then maybe I will change my view (probably not) but even if I write off henderson at right midfield and then I will start calling for maxi to start at right midfield. I want a midfielder at right midfield, I want creativity down the right hand side not a striker who starting position 'happens' to be on the right.
[/quote]

Totally agree with that, and again there was nothing wrong with the team that Kenny put out in the first half, it should've been over by half time. To say there was to many changes I think is wrong cause that first half team looked great for 45min. kuyt played 30 of the 45 minutes we were rubbish in and didn't "lead", or change anything during those 30mins. Henderson wasn't involved much but did the simple things good and will definitely need time, and if Henderson is not the immediate answer for right midfield we should be looking to get someone quick cause kuyt definitely is not the answer aswell
 
[quote author=anfield8 link=topic=46456.msg1380861#msg1380861 date=1313493411]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46456.msg1380856#msg1380856 date=1313492305]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46456.msg1380854#msg1380854 date=1313491700]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46456.msg1380849#msg1380849 date=1313491322]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=46456.msg1380841#msg1380841 date=1313489618]
I wish we'd bought a strong, mobile DM like Tiote or M'Vila rather than spending 16m on Henderson, who seems to have no particular position or usefulness in the current side.
[/quote]

an opinion based on one game?
[/quote]

Arggghhh. Neil, he's not a natural right midfielder, certainly not one with the attributes we need, like pace and trickery. He might be a good player, he might end up being a future central midfielder for us, but we have a dearth of similar players in Ming, Aquilani, Adam, Gerrard so it was a signing we could have gone without and a quick attacking wide player or defensive midfielder may well have been money better spent. It's not a judgement based on one game, it's a judgement based on the fact that neither Lucas or Spearing are really top drawer as DM's. Everyone knows that and that's based on watching them play more than 'one' game.
[/quote]

well anyway, kuyt isn't the answer for me at right midfield. I thought henderson did 'okay', he kept it siand I like his houghton-esque run into the box in the first ten minutes if he picked again and at the weekend and puts in another timid performance then maybe I will change my view (probably not) but even if I write off henderson at right midfield and then I will start calling for maxi to start at right midfield. I want a midfielder at right midfield, I want creativity down the right hand side not a striker who starting position 'happens' to be on the right.
[/quote]

Totally agree with that, and again there was nothing wrong with the team that Kenny put out in the first half, it should've been over by half time. To say there was to many changes I think is wrong cause that first half team looked great for 45min. kuyt played 30 of the 45 minutes we were rubbish in and didn't "lead", or change anything during those 30mins. Henderson wasn't involved much but did the simple things good and will definitely need time, and if Henderson is not the immediate answer for right midfield we should be looking to get someone quick cause kuyt definitely is not the answer aswell
[/quote]

agree.
 
So Agger has a 'dead leg'? What does that mean? Will they be able to resuscitate it in time for the game?
 
[quote author=iseered link=topic=46456.msg1380922#msg1380922 date=1313503667]
So Agger has a 'dead leg'? What does that mean? Will they be able to resuscitate it in time for the game?
[/quote]

'CHARGING!!'

'CLEAR!!'

*BBZZZZ!!!*
 
Eboue sold to Galatasaray and Vela gone on loan to Real Sociedad .....
Bendtner, Nasri and Almunia heading out the door....
Arse fans must be well chuffed
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46456.msg1380988#msg1380988 date=1313515136]
whinger is going to go on a 200m spending spree in the next two weeks
[/quote]

Yeah but he'll spend it on numerous orphanages with potential across europe.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46456.msg1380988#msg1380988 date=1313515136]
whinger is going to go on a 200m spending spree in the next two weeks
[/quote]They are doing exactly what i do in Champ Manager. Sell every cunt then buy big.
 
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