Poll Are we, like, done?

[TSD]

But that's the state of deplorable affairs. In this reality of inflated football monies where the English league is the most skewed of them all, barring being bought over by a billionaire or a change to a more ambitious stewardship, what else can we do but cling on to that bravado?

 

[hmmmmm1]

On paper, it does seem like an uphill task but if we're just going to look at transfer dealings to gauge the possibility of achieving success, then we might as well give up totally. I mean, under the current regime, we'll never be able to outspend the likes of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, RM, Barca, BM, PSG, Monaco etc. We have no chance of winning anything given the signings they made/can make.

In 04/05, we brought in the likes of Cisse, Alonso, Garcia and Morientes. Everton who finished ahead of us in 4th, signed Cahill, Bent, Arteta and Beattie. Real Sociedad's notable signing last season was Carlos Vela and they managed to seal 4th spot too. I'm sure we can think of more examples.

Our rivals can't sign all the good players in the world. The world won't run out of good players. The likes of Porto, Shakhtar, Udinese and Dortmund can testify for this. The club might as well just rely on football games' player database to look for quality, proven players if they aren't qualified or prepared to do a better, more thorough job in their search for talents and ideal signings.

In 04/05 we were a champions league side.

At the moment we are no where near it unless we have amazing season and rest of the teams fold it is unlikely we will get there unless we sign 1 or 2 players.

Also during that time you didn't have to contend with spurs and city.

England has 4/5 big spending teams, what other league bar Russian come close?

 

[Holle]

No.

 

[peterhague]

But that's the state of deplorable affairs. In this reality of inflated football monies where the English league is the most skewed of them all, barring being bought over by a billionaire or a change to a more ambitious stewardship, what else can we do but cling on to that bravado?

It can be done with a clear, unyielding, strategy, IMO. But I think our owners are basically useless, unwilling or unable to invest in the short-term, and apparently not capable either of implementing an alternative longer-term strategy.

They're basically asking Rodgers to do both at the same time with the resources for neither. I don't think they've got much of a clue. Rodgers will need to work a miracle unless something seriously big happens in the next couple of weeks.

 

[RolandG]

We ain't done by a long shot. Key players get injured and lose form. Mkhataryan arrived at Dortmund, played a game or two an dis out for a month. There's no telling how Bale's exit will affect the Spurs mentality and Arsenal have shipped out players and made only one signing so far. United haven't been busy and while they are the champions, it seems nobody is keen to play for Moyes. Citeh and Chelsea look very strong.

We have to look after our own results and take it game by game. The fixture list gives us an opportunity to rack up the points. Remember that there's European competitions for those above us. All is not lost.

Have faith you spineless bastards who have already lost hope. "YNWA!"

 

[keniget]

But that's the state of deplorable affairs. In this reality of inflated football monies where the English league is the most skewed of them all, barring being bought over by a billionaire or a change to a more ambitious stewardship, what else can we do but cling on to that bravado?

I feel unburdened by hope for the first time in years. I'm looking forward to the season ahead because it's football and I enjoy the game and all the shit that comes with it.

 

[TSD]

It can be done with a clear, unyielding, strategy, IMO. But I think our owners are basically useless, unwilling or unable to invest in the short-term, and apparently not capable either of implementing an alternative longer-term strategy.

I'm ambivalent on them atm, but yeah, FSG aren't exactly going out of their way to disprove this impression.

They're basically asking Rodgers to do both at the same time with the resources for neither. I don't think they've got much of a clue. Rodgers will need to work a miracle unless something seriously big happens in the next couple of weeks.

Yeah again. It's rock, hard place and Rodgers. I wish the likes of Werner could shut it with the "certainly have the resources to compete with anyone in football" lines, doesn't help anyone's cause.

I feel unburdened by hope for the first time in years. I'm looking forward to the season ahead because it's football and I enjoy the game and all the shit that comes with it.

We're playing a good game on the football pitch at least.

 

[Mors]

If you mean are we done regards to top 4, I'd say at the moment, it looks like yes we are. Scum, city, chelsea, spurs all have better first teams and squads than us.
BUT, IF we sign a couple of first team decent players before the window closes, it may well be enough to do it, we're not far short. The squad is good, but the first team could do with a couple of players.

 

[Hyena]

FSG obviously have a game plan but unfortunately the goalposts are shifting too fast for them.
£22+ for Mkh and £30+ for Willian are not bids to be sniffed at.

If you told me last season Spurs would get £85m from Real and break their transfer record 3 times in a summer I'd have laughed. But there you have it.

Maybe it's good that the big guns have been flushed out. Maybe now we can swim in and pick up the Eriksens, Hondas, Muriels etc without some wack billionaire club hijacking the deal.

Fwiw, we are in the Southampton league now and not really our owners' fault either.

 

[amber cabs]

We have an outside chance of 4th. If we improve our points total, and gap to 4th again I will be more than happy though. Being in the Europa league, while being a bit of a pain regards Thursday and Sunday games, I think will help slightly in terms of recruitment next summer also.

We improved by 9 points and 24 goals in Rodgers first season. Beating Stoke is already 2 points more than we got from them last season. We found life easier than usual against the teams below us last season. Keep that up and improve slightly against the teams above us and who knows.

Last season you need 73 for 4th, the season before 69. 69 would be an 8 point improvement on last year. Is that possible? Yeah I reckon so, just about with everyone knowing their job a bit better and a better balanced squad from the start of the season.

 

[TSD]

Sound post, amber cabs.

 

[peterhague]

FSG obviously have a game plan but unfortunately the goalposts are shifting too fast for them.
£22+ for Mkh and £30+ for Willian are not bids to be sniffed at.

If you told me last season Spurs would get £85m from Real and break their transfer record 3 times in a summer I'd have laughed. But there you have it.

Maybe it's good that the big guns have been flushed out. Maybe now we can swim in and pick up the Eriksens, Hondas, Muriels etc without some wack billionaire club hijacking the deal.

Fwiw, we are in the Southampton league now and not really our owners' fault either.

We're in the Southampton league now and that's NOT our owners' fault??

What?

 

[Mystic]

The huge thing people miss is that we have Coutinho and Sturridge for the whole season this season, if we had that last year, he'd have come a lot closer.

 

[Hyena]

The huge thing people miss is that we have Coutinho and Sturridge for the whole season this season, if we had that last year, he'd have come a lot closer.

The thing is if Mata and Eden Hazard were suspended for 20 games next season, Chelsea could still win the league. Let's not even talk about City. We are nowhere there.

 

[King Binny]

As Woland would say its great in the days of lowered expectations.

Montpellier won the league because they were competing with one decent team, Dortmund play in a competitive league where one team is stronger than them.

Our league is more like Scotland or Spain where you have teams above us with infinite wealth.
Building a squad is great and it could get us top 4 like a napoli or udinese, but what have they won?
When did Atletico win the league?

Before Dortmund's title win:
2010 - 5th (13 points off 1st, top 3 separated by 9 points)
2009 - 6th (10 points off 1st, top 4 separated by 6 points)
2008 - 13th (26 off 1st, top 3 separated by 12 points)
2007 - 9th (26 off 1st, top 3 separated by 4 points)
2006 - 7th (29 off 1st, top 3 separated by 7 points)
3 different champions during these 5 seasons: Stuttgart, Wolfsburg, Bayern Munich

Before Montpellier's title win:
2011 - 14th (29 points off 1st, top 3 separated by 12 points)
2010 - 5th (9 points off 1st, top 4 separated by 8 points)
2009 - (Ligue 2) 2
3 different champions during these 3 seasons: Lille, Marseille, Bordeaux
Lyon won it 7 times consecutively before that.

Of cos the Premier League is a much more competitive league. The point that I'm trying to stress is that process can be achieved not solely based on spendings and money. How else did these teams - including the other winners, achieve what they did?

As for Atletico Madrid: 1 Copa del Rey, 1 Copa del Rey runner-up, 2 Super Cups, 2 Europa League over the past 4 seasons. During this period of time, their net spending never cross the £10m mark.

Udinese did not have the finance and long terms ambition to sustain their challenge and process. They have been relying on a 35 - turning 36 yr old striker for the past few seasons and cash from sales haven't really been reinvested into the 1st team squad.

Napoli have a pretty short history in recent top flight football. They just got promoted 6 years ago. Since then, they have finished in the top 3 twice and won the Coppa Italia. The likes of Hamsik and Lavezzi cost less than £6m each. The Cavani they signed averaged a goal every 3 games (37 in 117) for Palermo.
2013 - 2nd (9 points off 1st)
2012 - 5th (23 points off 1st)
2011 - 3rd (12 points off 1st)
2010 - 6th (23 points off 1st)
2009 - 12th (38 points off 1st)
2008 - 8th (35 points off 1st)

Finally, my post was more in reply towards the opening post, comparing our spending vs our 'closest rival''s spendings, therefore I'm looking more at CL qualification than title challenge. No doubt that's the ultimate aim but for a club that has finished out of top 5 for past 4 seasons and only once in top 3 over the past 6 seasons, it's akin to thinking of running before one can even walk. I don't think it's a lowered expectation. It's more of a realistic expectation (albeit an unfortunate and sad one forced by our demise and faults - but we can't turn back the clock).

In 04/05 we were a champions league side.

At the moment we are no where near it unless we have amazing season and rest of the teams fold it is unlikely we will get there unless we sign 1 or 2 players.

Also during that time you didn't have to contend with spurs and city.

England has 4/5 big spending teams, what other league bar Russian come close?

Exactly. We were a CL side and made pretty good additions and yet we finished below Everton, 3 points fewer in 5th place.

Spurs haven't been in CL until 2010/11. Their league positions before then read 8th, 11th, 5th, 5th, 9th. There were the top 4 back then while Everton and Aston Villa made up the rest of top 6 for 2 of those 5 seasons. How did they come to where they are today? Jacques Santini, Juande Ramos, Damien Comolli, Frank Arnesen etc. The road hasn't been smooth sailing but their process proves positive process are possible despite the ongoing challenges.

As for the examples I listed (Porto, Shakhtar, Udinese and Dortmund), I'm referring more to how they unearth talents and replace big name players.

 

[Dirkus_Circus]

Why is everyone assuming Man Yoo is going to finish top 4?

 

[Delinquent]

I think poor C/O has just committed forum suicide.

 

[localny]

Amber Cabs is spot on. We should focus on our own results. 73 points to get CL means four more wins than last year. That is completely achievable.