are we fucking buying anyone or what like?

[Ryan]

Dreamy is correct.

What he's trying to articulate is that when we don't play very well and/or are faced with a resolute defensive wall of players, we could do with more inspiration when the perspiration fails. There are times when you just have to hope that your match-winner, your genius, your goalscorer simply bails you out.

It's a hoary old cliche, but the reason it is one, is because it's fucking correct: great teams win even when they don't play well (or when they've been simply outplayed)

Often it's a goal scored from the one chance the team has created. Or one astonishing bit of skill. When we don't play well, we very rarely win.
And we aren't very clinical, because, as everyone knows, we don't have any top quality finishers (bar Sturridge, who seems a shadow of the player he was). We need lots of chances to score. And they've dried up.

Dreamy keeps referring to Chelsea, using Costa and Hazard as the two type of players he is talking about, and it is again, entirely correct. A brutally efficient goalscorer and a devastatingly quick attacking wizard who can create his own chances without any help.

The closest we have to Hazard is Mane. Without him, as most of us predicted, we've been fucking shite. So we need another. And we also need another striker, who is a top quality finisher and can work as a lone striker.

When we struggle in a game, we don't have enough (or any) players like Costa, Hazard, Aguero, Sanchez, Dele Alli, Sanchez, Kane or Ibrahimovic.

Firstly, the point you're making is not the point Dreamy is making. I get that you're better at articulating a point than him, but his argument isn't yours.

"we don't have someone who can create something out of nothing" was his original point. Which is arse. He's since dragged that into 8 different points about dogged defences (which we've scored against), team that sit deep (again), and Chelsea (whom we've beaten, and scored more than). This has been his forum modus operandi for 10 years; ridiculous opinion gets booted around, then he drags it into anything resembling a point. Usually far removed from his original one.

Even your argument has holes aplenty. We don't have a Costa or Hazard. Great. They don't have the goals we do from midfield. It's all swings and roundabouts.

The reason we're not top of the league - not that I think it's a point worth worrying about that much, given we've completely exceeded all expectations this season - is that we concede too many, not that we don't have players capable of 'unlocking defences'. Certainly, the latter is not the major contributor to us being 2nd.

2 against Burnley, 4 against Bournemouth, 2 against Sunderland, 2 against West Ham, 2 against Crystal Palace. You cannot expect to have to score 3, 4, or 5 goals to need to win games.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Dreamie - there isn't a team that doesn't need or want a player that can unlock the tightest defences in humanity all by himself with no need for any of his teammates to get involved.

That's not the point.

The point is - we're missing key players for a few weeks and it sucks - but it's a few weeks.

There are long term issues that need to be addressed - but right now we have a really good balance - we're managing a difficult period of congested fixtures, injuries & African nations cup pretty well in my opinion.

Have you noticed any of the other top 6 teams - 4 of whom are below us - desperately trying to enhance their squads.

Like us - they will, if a target that is actually worth buying becomes available.

I agree with all that. I never said we should buy just for the sake of it or because we think we should. We have obvious areas to improve, one of them being in attack so if a target is available we should go for it.
Without i doubt we will end up champions which as this stage we are definitely in a position we could be

 

[Dreambeliever]

So.... Burnley, Man Utd & Southampton (twice).

When Chelsea were winning 4 out of their 14 in a row by 1 goal - they were still ripping teams apart with their individual brilliance or whatever - but.... how did this not translate into more goals!!!!

In case you wondered the amazing 5 teams that managed to only let the mighty Chelsea beat them by 1 goal were Spurs, Middlesbrough, WBA, Sunderland & Crystal Palace.

For the record I don't think Chelsea are all that at all. They aren't playing beautiful attacking football, however they have been more effective than us in winning right games where they haven't doninated, haven't created many chances or even have been outplayed for large periods. (The City game is a great example) The difference is when they struggle in a game they have individuals who can go and win it on their own, Costa and Hazard being the two obvious choices.
Of course if they lose those players they will struggle but I don't care if they struggle, I care that we do and it's clear since Coutinho has been injured we haven't looked anywhere near as good and now with Henderson coming back from injury and Mane away it's obvious we don't have the players to come in and do the same job. Now when we aren't playing well we don't look like we can nick out of nowhere. Something another creative player could help with.
I'm not sure why Ryan is so outraged by this opinion, it doesn't seem difficult to spot to me, but then Ryan has always had an issue with my football knowledge of lack of in his opinion.
It doesn't help that I hate typing out long winded replies. I much prefer talking football face to face so that probably adds to it

 

[Dreambeliever]

But you, like everyone else in every other fucking argument, are using shortened or very specific time-frames in order to make, or belittle a point.

It's like all those conversations a few months back

"Well, Firmino has scored 5 goals in his last 10 games so he'll probably score 15-20"
"Lallana is on track to score 15!!!"
"Coutinho should get at least 15 goals based on the the season so far"
"We're top scorers, we don't need a striker! We score goals all the time!"
"We've kept 2 clean sheets now, Karius is the business! Who said our defence was poor? HAHAHAHAHA!"

Or the usual bellends quacking on about "I see Harry Kane hasn't scored/ Delle Ali is a one season wonder/ United are finished/ Pogba is shit, I'd prefer Can/ Courtois is terrible" in fucking September.

As a general rule, anyone using a time-frame of fucking 5 games to decide on any definitive opinion or prediction is a fucking cunt, but as for the collective sniggering at Dreamy, well, this lull in performance and results is another period of about 5 games, so I wouldn't definitively say we are DOOOMED, but frankly, anyone who doesn't think we need a few more players like Mane, who could be happily added to a list of "match-winners" like Aguero, Ibrahimovic, Delle Ali, Sanchez, Costa, Hazard, Kane et al is either a liar or a moron, and really, that is ALL Dreamy is trying to say.

Pretty much this, maybe you need to lie down, agreeing with me is a sign of losing ones marbles around here

 

[RichC]

I agree with all that. I never said we should buy just for the sake of it or because we think we should. We have obvious areas to improve, one of them being in attack so if a target is available we should go for it.
Without i doubt we will end up champions which as this stage we are definitely in a position we could be

Hasn't Klopp said this all along though ? If we can get the right player this window we will however it's difficult as most teams don't want to part with their players mid season.

Additional pace up front would be good with Mane missing but our attack isn't doing too badly scoring on average 2.4 gpg this season in the league.

I think it's easy to forget we played 3 games in 6 days with two of those in under 48 hours over the Xmas period which we found tough going.

 

[Oliver Twist]

Only when they don't score enough

We're the top scorers in the league.

 

[manwithnoname]

Firstly, the point you're making is not the point Dreamy is making. I get that you're better at articulating a point than him, but his argument isn't yours.

"we don't have someone who can create something out of nothing" was his original point. Which is arse. He's since dragged that into 8 different points about dogged defences (which we've scored against), team that sit deep (again), and Chelsea (whom we've beaten, and scored more than). This has been his forum modus operandi for 10 years; ridiculous opinion gets booted around, then he drags it into anything resembling a point. Usually far removed from his original one.

Even your argument has holes aplenty. We don't have a Costa or Hazard. Great. They don't have the goals we do from midfield. It's all swings and roundabouts.

The reason we're not top of the league - not that I think it's a point worth worrying about that much, given we've completely exceeded all expectations this season - is that we concede too many, not that we don't have players capable of 'unlocking defences'. Certainly, the latter is not the major contributor to us being 2nd.

2 against Burnley, 4 against Bournemouth, 2 against Sunderland, 2 against West Ham, 2 against Crystal Palace. You cannot expect to have to score 3, 4, or 5 goals to need to win games.

The issue isn't the amount of goals, or the 'swings and roundabouts', it's the *type* of player who scores them.

The type of player who doesn't need anyone else's help and/ or takes the one chance he gets.

 

[keniget]

Additional pace up front would be good with Mane missing but our attack isn't doing too badly scoring on average 2.4 gpg this season in the league.

The top scorers in the league argument reminds me of the season we are top under Rafa by some margin and so the fact that we were drawing too many games was dismissed by many.

The first half of the season has pretty much exceeded all of our expectations and we've been spoiled by the quality of our attacking play.

As we enter the second half the season there are legitimate question marks over our recent form, the ability of our squad to manage the loss of key individuals and so forth and so forth. It would be dangerous to assume that we can simply extrapolate out the results of the first half of the season into the second.

There are have been mitigating factors as has been said and having Coutinho back should be a big boost but the worry is that the last couple of performances have been all too familiar in their nature.

It'd definitely be reassuring to see a couple of fresh faces come into the squad because as things stand it feels like we're a couple injuries away from seeing a lot of our good work undone.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Firstly, the point you're making is not the point Dreamy is making. I get that you're better at articulating a point than him, but his argument isn't yours.

"we don't have someone who can create something out of nothing" was his original point. Which is arse. He's since dragged that into 8 different points about dogged defences (which we've scored against), team that sit deep (again), and Chelsea (whom we've beaten, and scored more than). This has been his forum modus operandi for 10 years; ridiculous opinion gets booted around, then he drags it into anything resembling a point. Usually far removed from his original one.

Even your argument has holes aplenty. We don't have a Costa or Hazard. Great. They don't have the goals we do from midfield. It's all swings and roundabouts.

The reason we're not top of the league - not that I think it's a point worth worrying about that much, given we've completely exceeded all expectations this season - is that we concede too many, not that we don't have players capable of 'unlocking defences'. Certainly, the latter is not the major contributor to us being 2nd.

2 against Burnley, 4 against Bournemouth, 2 against Sunderland, 2 against West Ham, 2 against Crystal Palace. You cannot expect to have to score 3, 4, or 5 goals to need to win games.

Incorrect, I raised other points to try and highlight that original point. If I did a shit job in articulating that fair enough (wouldn't be the first and definitely won't be the last) but it was to expand and give reason to the original point.
We don't have a player who can get a goal all of his own doing when Mane and Coutinho aren't playing or fully fit so we should be actively looking to get another player who can do this if we can.

We've had players like in the past and because everything revolved around them (Suarez, Torres, Gerrard, Owen) we fell over when these players had an off day.
We are 2nd at the moment and obviously an attack that doesn't rely on one or two players is a better approach. However equally if the team unit has an off day, players are injured, opposition defend well and restrict our chances then we also struggle.

The obvious solution is to have a mix of both. A fluid attack with goals from all over combined with creative players that can pull a rabbit out of a hat when we are having an off day.

Our form is on the decline as is the displays from earlier in the season. A player like the one I'm talking about could be the difference between 1st and 2nd-4th

 

[manwithnoname]

The top scorers in the league argument reminds me of the season we are top under Rafa by some margin and so the fact that we were drawing too many games was dismissed by many.

The first half of the season has pretty much exceeded all of our expectations and we've been spoiled by the quality of our attacking play.

As we enter the second half the season there are legitimate question marks over our recent form, the ability of our squad to manage the loss of key individuals and so forth and so forth. It would be dangerous to assume that we can simply extrapolate out the results of the first half of the season into the second.

There are have been mitigating factors as has been said and having Coutinho back should be a big boost but the worry is that the last couple of performances have been all too familiar in their nature.

It'd definitely be reassuring to see a couple of fresh faces come into the squad because as things stand it feels like we're a couple injuries away from seeing a lot of our good work undone.

It is quite amusing when such short windows, or current facts are used to try and drown out or diminish any dissenting voices

We're top scorers in the league
We haven't conceded a goal for two matches, our defence is fine
We don't need these players because these ones are playing great
He's overrated because he hasn't scored for three games
He's scored or assisted in blah blah goals in this calendar year (I love that one)

Every single time you see or hear that, you know you're dealing with an idiot. Who will be wrong

I'm reminded of the famous recent 'nearly' season when anyone who dared question our shoddy defence was shouted down by the noisy cretins with a repeated variation of '

'who cares if we concede goals? You get 3 points if you win 4-3 or 2-0. It doesn't matter!'

'But usually you see that teams who win the title don't concede as many goals as we do, and it will cost us'

'YOU GET THREE POINTS IF YOU WIN, WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT THE SCORE IS?'

And we all know how that worked out.

 

[manwithnoname]

Incorrect, I raised other points to try and highlight that original point. If I did a shit job in articulating that fair enough (wouldn't be the first and definitely won't be the last) but it was to expand and give reason to the original point.
We don't have a player who can get a goal all of his own doing when Mane and Coutinho aren't playing or fully fit so we should be actively looking to get another player who can do this if we can.

We've had players like in the past and because everything revolved around them (Suarez, Torres, Gerrard, Owen) we fell over when these players had an off day.
We are 2nd at the moment and obviously an attack that doesn't rely on one or two players is a better approach. However equally if the team unit has an off day, players are injured, opposition defend well and restrict our chances then we also struggle.

The obvious solution is to have a mix of both. A fluid attack with goals from all over combined with creative players that can pull a rabbit out of a hat when we are having an off day.

Our form is on the decline as is the displays from earlier in the season. A player like the one I'm talking about could be the difference between 1st and 2nd-4th

Someone has nicked Dreamy's login

 

[Oliver Twist]

'

'YOU GET THREE POINTS IF YOU WIN, WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT THE SCORE IS?'

Indeed. But the argument here is that 'we got three points, who cares who the scorers are'. Because you seem to in your efforts to denigrate Firmino, who has made your opinions look stupid. Much like Henderson and Lallana have done, really.

 

[binomial]

I find it hard to believe ALL of Klopp's targets are not available this window, how many does he have... like 2?

 

[Oliver Twist]

Maybe he doesn't want to compromise which is fair enough.

 

[Hansern]

Klopp made a move for Draxler last month, but when it became all about money, Klopp decided discussions would go no further. (James Pearce)

 

[Mors]

Klopp made a move for Draxler last month, but when it became all about money, Klopp decided discussions would go no further. (James Pearce)

Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. You can very rarely pick quality players up cheap and pay them peanuts.

 

[FoxForceFive]

He doesn't say the price was too high, saying it's all about money suggests to me that the player was only interested in the bottom line & nothing else.

That's never a good thing long term, not matter how talented the player may be.

 

[Dreambeliever]

So after all this talk of us scoring more than everyone else like it's some sort of wonderful example of how amazing our attack is, Arsenal have now scored as many as us and Chelsea are only 3 behind in goals scored.

 

[RichC]

Surely by definition of your scoring goals and as such still joint top scorers in the league it shows our attack has been doing its job.

Not difficult to understand that is it ? You're not Perkins are are ?

 

[Dreambeliever]

Surely by definition of your scoring goals and as such still joint top scorers in the league it shows our attack has been doing its job.

Not difficult to understand that is it ? You're not Perkins are are ?

People have used it to make a point that our attack is the best in the land and superior to everyone else. You'd think we had scored bucket loads more than others the way some people describe it. The reality is very different.

 

[Oliver Twist]

So after all this talk of us scoring more than everyone else like it's some sort of wonderful example of how amazing our attack is, Arsenal have now scored as many as us and Chelsea are only 3 behind in goals scored.

Surely 'the talk' of us scoring more than anyone else was in the context of do we really need an out and out goal scorer as he may detract from other parts of our game and we may well end up scoring less overall.

Unless it's a Suarez type player, of course.

 

[Dave G]

What's wrong with using the youngsters / squad players for cover if we get injuries? The likes of TAA, Stewart, Ejaria, Ojo etc have proven themselves more than capable when playing in the first team. Lets not forget, it would most likely only be one or maybe two at most who would have to bed in to the team in the case of injuries and I think it would show a lot of faith from Klopp in the setup of the club if we did this instead of panic buying a 'big' name and then have more first teamers than we can accomodate once everyone is fit.

 

[binomial]

What's wrong with using the youngsters / squad players for cover if we get injuries? The likes of TAA, Stewart, Ejaria, Ojo etc have proven themselves more than capable when playing in the first team. Lets not forget, it would most likely only be one or maybe two at most who would have to bed in to the team in the case of injuries and I think it would show a lot of faith from Klopp in the setup of the club if we did this instead of panic buying a 'big' name and then have more first teamers than we can accomodate once everyone is fit.

It's not an issue at present but it can become, relying on too many youngsters at once makes fans very nervous...using them for cup games is fine but when it comes to the big league we need our best XI out there every game.

And secondly I think we all just want to see some fresh faces.

 

[Jerry Laser]

Whats happened with Grujic???

 

[Squiggles]

What's wrong with using the youngsters / squad players for cover if we get injuries? The likes of TAA, Stewart, Ejaria, Ojo etc have proven themselves more than capable when playing in the first team. Lets not forget, it would most likely only be one or maybe two at most who would have to bed in to the team in the case of injuries and I think it would show a lot of faith from Klopp in the setup of the club if we did this instead of panic buying a 'big' name and then have more first teamers than we can accomodate once everyone is fit.

They couldn't beat Plymouth at Anfield. To assume they have the quality to fill in for a team going for the Premier League title is naive at best. The squad needs strengthening. It's pretty obvious.

 

[Squiggles]

Whats happened with Grujic???

We can only assume he's either lazy, shit or injury prone. Either way it amounts to the same thing.

Weird given how strong he looked in preseason.

 

[Dave G]

They couldn't beat Plymouth at Anfield. To assume they have the quality to fill in for a team going for the Premier League title is naive at best. The squad needs strengthening. It's pretty obvious.

I'm on about integrating one or possibly two as and when there are injuries, not playing the whole lot at once.

 

[737Max]

Sule and Rudy have both signed for Bayern

 

[Squiggles]

I know but they're not good enough when either Mane or Coutinho is out. Top squads do not have 6/7 kids on the bench like we have in recent weeks. There's always a balance to be struck between youth development and competing for honours but currently the route to the first team is too easy.

 

[binomial]

Sule and Rudy have both signed for Bayern

Very good acquisitions, this is what i'm talking about...signing good solid players for depth.