are we fucking buying anyone or what like?

[moron]

Look, it's safe to say that if you and Dreamy are in furious agreement Moron - then I'm going to take the safe, and entirely fucking opposite view - irrespective of whatever validity* there may be to your argument.


*To be clear though; there isn't any.

Actually there is validity and i think all or anybody on this site that have faith in Studge doing great things for is is kinda deluded. Studge is a has been one season wonder. Also i dont buy into the Lallana hype. Right now without Mane the team is as good in attack as it was last season and no more.

 

[Skullflower]

Torres was good times while it was good. We really were 'one piece of the jigsaw' away from winning the league back then.

 

[StevieM]

I can't quite believe I'm doing this, but here goes anyway:

There's some validity in the point Dreamy is trying to express. While we do create plenty of chances and score lots of goals, Mane is probably the only player we have who can the type of goals he is referring to.

Our game is about a shared, collective game, which is great, but when that is stifled, or we are outplayed - rare as that is - we don't - Mane apart - have a player that can just win us a game on his own, without help.

The likes of Lallana and Firmino can't do it, they have no pace. Origi isn't reliable.

He's talking about a player like Owen (Arsenal cup final), Suarez, Gerrard (countless times) or Torres. One simple pass over the top, or burst through the lines and a nerveless finish, and a victory can be snatched from nowhere, undeserved.

All great teams have one or two of that sort of player.

That's what he thinks we lack, and he's got a point.

Coutinho has that ability as has Sturridge.

... and we are still scoring more than everyone else.

The point is, we actually got as much in our attacking armoury as the other top teams, because, we spread it over more players.

You look at the teams with Owen, Torres, etc, they were the focal point - the complaint was often not enough goals from support - relying on them too much.

We have, more than I can remember since maybe Dalglish's championship winning team of the late 80's, attack and goals from multiple angles & positions.

There are going to be days where we don't score - like there were for Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge, Houghton and co

 

[manwithnoname]

Coutinho has that ability as has Sturridge.

... and we are still scoring more than everyone else.

The point is, we actually got as much in our attacking armoury as the other top teams, because, we spread it over more players.

You look at the teams with Owen, Torres, etc, they were the focal point - the complaint was often not enough goals from support - relying on them too much.

We have, more than I can remember since maybe Dalglish's championship winning team of the late 80's, attack and goals from multiple angles & positions.

There are going to be days where we don't score - like there were for Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge, Houghton and co

It's true that past Liverpool teams - recent vintage -were accused of being overly reliant on one or two players; Owen, Suarez, Gerrard (ad nauseum), and if they were off-form, or unfit, or suspended for eating people, the team struggled.

And it's good that we don't seem so reliant on any one player now. That IS better.

But we have swung a bit too far the other way, and we do need one more "matchwinner" in the team.

 

[Mors]

Lovren, Klavan, Matip, Gomez, Lucas. There's 5 centre backs that can all do more than a job there. What price is is going to cost us to add a "top class CB"? 30M, 40m? What's the point in that?

And Milner's the best left-back in the league. Why would we want to take him out of there?

Lucas isn't a centre back, he plays there sometimes as we've not got anyone else and isn't great there. Gomez has played about 90mins football in 18months, is barely out of the juniors and can't really be counted out to play a run of games yet because he's just coming back from serious injuries. So that leaves us with 3 senior CB's. If we lose 1 or 2 for a considerable amount of time like we have at the other end of the pitch, we're buggered. Imagine Lucas at fucking CB for 2 months!

 

[manwithnoname]

Lucas isn't a centre back, he plays there sometimes as we've not got anyone else and isn't great there. Gomez has played about 90mins football in 18months, is barely out of the juniors and can't really be counted out to play a run of games yet because he's just coming back from serious injuries. So that leaves us with 3 senior CB's. If we lose 1 or 2 for a considerable amount of time like we have at the other end of the pitch, we're buggered. Imagine Lucas at fucking CB for 2 months!

You've got a point, but I think Ryan's point is more about the cost of acquiring a player like Van Dijk, with a mooted fee of £35m or whatever, and questioning that sort of outlay.

 

[StevieM]

It's true that past Liverpool teams - recent vintage -were accused of being overly reliant on one or two players; Owen, Suarez, Gerrard (ad nauseum), and if they were off-form, or unfit, or suspended for eating people, the team struggled.

And it's good that we don't seem so reliant on any one player now. That IS better.

But we have swung a bit too far the other way, and we do need one more "matchwinner" in the team.

We need Sturridge fit, happy & working hard - he'll score for fun.

Although, if we could get such a player as you describe - then yes, absolutely.

I don't know if any - certainly not ones that are available in this window.

There are certainly a lot of inferior players we could pointlessly overpay for.

 

[StevieM]

Lucas isn't a centre back, he plays there sometimes as we've not got anyone else and isn't great there. Gomez has played about 90mins football in 18months, is barely out of the juniors and can't really be counted out to play a run of games yet because he's just coming back from serious injuries. So that leaves us with 3 senior CB's. If we lose 1 or 2 for a considerable amount of time like we have at the other end of the pitch, we're buggered. Imagine Lucas at fucking CB for 2 months!

Arguably Lucas isn't a defensive midfielder either - he's certainly not an attacking midfielder.

 

[Jack D Rips]

We need Sturridge fit, happy & working hard - he'll score for fun.

Although, if we could get such a player as you describe - then yes, absolutely.

I don't know if any - certainly not ones that are available in this window.

There are certainly a lot of inferior players we could pointlessly overpay for.

In fairness that was what Dreamy said, and Manwithnoname agreed with.

 

[StevieM]

In fairness that was what Dreamy said, and Manwithnoname agreed with.

Well then....

Carry on

 

[StevieM]

In fairness that was what Dreamy said, and Manwithnoname agreed with.

Actually, on second reading, that's not what Dreamie said at all - he'd sell sturridge in a heartbeat & rates Defoe higher (which is a matter of public record)

Manwithnoname made a slightly different argument, which I believe is similar, but not quite the same, to my position.

Ryan's original point in this discussion, for me still stands, and we should question the validity of this "we must buy" assertion that is prevalent.

 

[Modo]

Coutinho?

 

[StevieM]

What it boils down to for me is this :-

The single biggest problem with transfers is looking at a player in a different team, often in a different league, and expecting him to replicate those performances at Liverpool with no or little consideration to how that player will fit in to the style, system or manner with which we play.

This is the crux of it all for me.

Too often, we, the filthy unwashed, bang on about signing "so-and-so" because he's amazing - but completely unsuited to the way in which we play - Benteke is as good an example as you'll get recently.

Analytics come in to play (bat signal for Ross) because they can help identify the type of player that is needed for the role that is required.

Then you get the manager - who has to integrate that talent.

I'm all for signing the right people & making best use of available resources.

We have finite resources and we increasingly have to and are making smarter decisions.

One of those smarter decisions might be to not buy anyone this January.

 

[Mors]

You've got a point, but I think Ryan's point is more about the cost of acquiring a player like Van Dijk, with a mooted fee of £35m or whatever, and questioning that sort of outlay.

He reeled off 5 'centre backs' that is only actually 3+1 junior that's got a duff knee. I think he's over egging the cover we've got there. We get 2 out for a period and we're in bad shape.
I'd take his partner, Fonte if he wasn't to expensive. Only problem is he'd probably be wasted on the bench, as he's probably better than Lovren.

 

[keniget]

Sturridge hasn't been that player / "happy and fit" for at least two years now.

I think it'd be more prudent to plan around the Sturridge of today than the Sturridge of yesteryear.

 

[Dreambeliever]

We need Sturridge fit, happy & working hard - he'll score for fun.

Although, if we could get such a player as you describe - then yes, absolutely.

I don't know if any - certainly not ones that are available in this window.

There are certainly a lot of inferior players we could pointlessly overpay for.

How many people had heard of Coutinho before we bought him?

There are players out there, it's just whether we can get them

 

[Dreambeliever]

In fairness that was what Dreamy said, and Manwithnoname agreed with.

Indeed

 

[Dreambeliever]

Actually, on second reading, that's not what Dreamie said at all - he'd sell sturridge in a heartbeat & rates Defoe higher (which is a matter of public record)

Manwithnoname made a slightly different argument, which I believe is similar, but not quite the same, to my position.

Ryan's original point in this discussion, for me still stands, and we should question the validity of this "we must buy" assertion that is prevalent.

I've never said we must by so maybe read it a 3rd time.

And yes if we are talking about the hear and now I would play Defoe if we had him over Sturridge as he is scoring goals (11) in a shite that create little compared with us. Sturridge of 13/14 is long gone and the sooner everyone realizes that the better.

Sturridge's role is that of an impact subs these days and 2 goals this season says he's not even great at that.

I'd love Sturridge of 13/14 form and importantly goals but we ain't getting him and with a real shot at a title I'd 100% take one of the in form strikers in the league with the best record in EPL history coming off the bench and scoring.

It won't happen anyway but doesn't mean it isn't so a good idea.

Back to my discussion with Ryan the point remains. We currently don't have any fit match winners who are being selected week in week out.

Sturridge - never plays
Coutinho - injured
Mane - away

We could certainly do with another 'goal out of nothing' player for the 2nd half of the season and beyond.

 

[Kay Age El]

No matter his current golden patch there is no way Defoe is better than Sturridge. I've seen Defoe look very ordinary in a better team so maybe he's simply thriving from being the best player in a poor team?

Career-wise his best stats has been with Bournemouth, Portsmouth, Toronto and Sunderland. He had his good spells with Spurs but when they got better he started to struggle to keep his place. There's nothing that suggests to me at least he'd be a better option than Sturridge, not even close.

Fact is, no matter how injured he has been Daniel or whether he is not showing the right attitude etc., Studge is a very fantastic player and we'd be a right mess if we didn't at least explore every option to get the best out of him for as long as he's here or at least to the very point where he himself said to us he's no longer up for it (which I doubt ever will be the case with him).

 

[Kay Age El]

Franck Kessie anyone?

Never seen him play but he has scored 7 goals from his defensive midfield position for Atalanta this Season and is being rumored a £30M target for Chelsea (who's already got Kante).

What's he like?

 

[binomial]

Franck Kessie anyone?

Never seen him play but he has scored 7 goals from his defensive midfield position for Atalanta this Season and is being rumored a £30M target for Chelsea (who's already got Kante).

What's he like?

The african Matuidi.

 

[737Max]

I was going to say he's the new Michael Essien

 

[manwithnoname]

I was going to say he's the new Michael Essien

There was a season or two before injury when Essien was terrifyingly effective.

 

[kingjulian]

Actually there is - it's called buying a player with some umph factor that can break down the last line of defense on their own.

That's a ridiculously high expectation...how are we supposed to find a constipated footballer who is able to do the job by himself with no support.

It's impossible.....

 

[manwithnoname]

That's a ridiculously high expectation...how are we supposed to find a constipated footballer who is able to do the job by himself with no support.

It's impossible.....

er....what?

 

[Kay Age El]

I was going to say he's the new Michael Essien

Then I'd be all over this. Essien, before something happened to him and he went down hill, was a defensive midfield monster.

 

[doctor_mac]

No players who can score from nothing, eh? Me arse we haven't.

 

[manwithnoname]

No players who can score from nothing, eh? Me arse we haven't.

Coutinho is great, but my requirement is one who can do that with a bit more regularity, because as lovely as those goals are, the problem is highlighted in the title "All 28 goals" over a period of three years.

And I didn't mean just brilliant strikes or amazing jinking runs, either

 

[Judge Jules]

Then I'd be all over this. Essien, before something happened to him and he went down hill, was a defensive midfield monster.

At his best he was more than that. He offered at least as much going forward as he did defensively, and would have been perfect for Klopp's system. If this other guy really is cut from the same cloth we should defo look at him.

 

[mom]

If we're happy with a shot at top four, then as you were is probably gonna see us ok. If we have the balls to go for the title, we need a top quality attacking talent brought in now. Kill three birds with one stone and we get some talent to cover Mane while he's away (yes, its only a few weeks but that's ample time to blow a title challenge), increase our chances of winning the league and bed in Coutinho's replacement as he's no doubt off in the summer.