Andy Carroll - Liverpools Number 9.
- Thread starter WhyAlwaysMe?
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over the course of a season will torres score more and contribute more than suarez and carrol because that is effectively what we did yesterday.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43933.msg1274097#msg1274097 date=1296557415]
over the course of a season will Torres score more and contribute more than suarez and carrol because that is effectively what we did yesterday.
[/quote]
If he stays fit. Maybe. We don't know. We'll see
over the course of a season will Torres score more and contribute more than suarez and carrol because that is effectively what we did yesterday.
[/quote]
If he stays fit. Maybe. We don't know. We'll see
I fucking love the return of the King.
He's bought with him a massive tour de force. Yes we've lost one of the best strikers in the world when on form but we got £50m for him and then bought in the top scorer in the prem this season and someone who's 4 years Torres' Junior.
Yeah we didn't get a winger but we were clearly close.
Nesv + KD are going to make things happen at this club.
Now just for the three wins on the bounce before the chelsea game!
He's bought with him a massive tour de force. Yes we've lost one of the best strikers in the world when on form but we got £50m for him and then bought in the top scorer in the prem this season and someone who's 4 years Torres' Junior.
Yeah we didn't get a winger but we were clearly close.
Nesv + KD are going to make things happen at this club.
Now just for the three wins on the bounce before the chelsea game!
[quote author=Fox link=topic=43933.msg1274090#msg1274090 date=1296557017]
[quote author=The Duck link=topic=43933.msg1274049#msg1274049 date=1296555449]
He'll smash a barstool in your face Carroll, Carroll
The Policemen sprayed him with their mace Carroll, Carroll
We bought the boy for 30 mill,
The other 5's his barbers's bill
He's Andy Carroll - Liverpool's number 9!!
[/quote]
very funny.
I don't think we should keep that tune going with just new lyrics, it reminds us too much of you know who. Carroll deserves his own tune
[/quote]
Of course it reminds us; thats the whole point.
That song is to good to waste on a traitor.
[quote author=The Duck link=topic=43933.msg1274049#msg1274049 date=1296555449]
He'll smash a barstool in your face Carroll, Carroll
The Policemen sprayed him with their mace Carroll, Carroll
We bought the boy for 30 mill,
The other 5's his barbers's bill
He's Andy Carroll - Liverpool's number 9!!
[/quote]
very funny.
I don't think we should keep that tune going with just new lyrics, it reminds us too much of you know who. Carroll deserves his own tune
[/quote]
Of course it reminds us; thats the whole point.
That song is to good to waste on a traitor.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=43933.msg1274101#msg1274101 date=1296557610]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43933.msg1274097#msg1274097 date=1296557415]
over the course of a season will Torres score more and contribute more than suarez and carrol because that is effectively what we did yesterday.
[/quote]
If he stays fit. Maybe. We don't know. We'll see
[/quote]
it wont happen but how fucking funny would it be if chelsea finished outside the top 4.
if someone asked me right now which would prefer;
manu failing to win 19
chelsea failing to make top 4
it would be a tough choice. of course it would be the first one (before I get flamed ha ha)
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43933.msg1274097#msg1274097 date=1296557415]
over the course of a season will Torres score more and contribute more than suarez and carrol because that is effectively what we did yesterday.
[/quote]
If he stays fit. Maybe. We don't know. We'll see
[/quote]
it wont happen but how fucking funny would it be if chelsea finished outside the top 4.
if someone asked me right now which would prefer;
manu failing to win 19
chelsea failing to make top 4
it would be a tough choice. of course it would be the first one (before I get flamed ha ha)
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43933.msg1274097#msg1274097 date=1296557415]
over the course of a season will Torres score more and contribute more than suarez and carrol because that is effectively what we did yesterday.
[/quote]
No he wont. And they wont win fuck all either, just what he deserves in fact which is good, still to this moment they have an undermined manager a megalomaniac owner fuck all fans and a bunch of aging mercenary cunts at their disposal....
Short term yeh... long term.... well i dont see them making a profit ever do you?
over the course of a season will Torres score more and contribute more than suarez and carrol because that is effectively what we did yesterday.
[/quote]
No he wont. And they wont win fuck all either, just what he deserves in fact which is good, still to this moment they have an undermined manager a megalomaniac owner fuck all fans and a bunch of aging mercenary cunts at their disposal....
Short term yeh... long term.... well i dont see them making a profit ever do you?
Carroll might be a bit tapped in the head but he sounds like many wild 22 year olds...and has all the makings if a cult hero. The press will use his fee as a stick to beat him with at every opportunity. That will just make Liverpool supporters rally around him more.
Really hope it works out he's got some good role models at Liverpool to look to now. The rest is up to him.
Really hope it works out he's got some good role models at Liverpool to look to now. The rest is up to him.
[quote author=VeggardSub link=topic=43933.msg1274072#msg1274072 date=1296556432]
can someone on this forum explain something which has been puzzling me about this transfer... How the hell does someone with a torn thigh muscle pass a medical?
[/quote]
I'm convinced our medicals are a formality ever since the injured Aquilani passed one
can someone on this forum explain something which has been puzzling me about this transfer... How the hell does someone with a torn thigh muscle pass a medical?
[/quote]
I'm convinced our medicals are a formality ever since the injured Aquilani passed one
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=43933.msg1274006#msg1274006 date=1296553937]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=43933.msg1274000#msg1274000 date=1296553546]
Got this from a Newcastle forum, looks quite credible.
Kinda makes me feel a bit sorry for them. It's more or less the opposite of what happened with El Cunt.
[/quote]
Exactly yet people are calling the two the same. Look, we all know Carroll was a diehard Geordie fan and it must have hurt him massively to leave the club he loves. But at Liverpool, both club and city, we make people welcome and that's what we'll do. I think he has tons of character on the pitch and that's what matters but he'll learn to love LFC too - as anyone with a footballing soul does.
[/quote]
If those texts are true, it makes this fucking saddening to read as pardew & Ashley tell bare faced lies to get out of the shit.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6716009,00.html
[quote author=Modo link=topic=43933.msg1274000#msg1274000 date=1296553546]
Got this from a Newcastle forum, looks quite credible.
Kinda makes me feel a bit sorry for them. It's more or less the opposite of what happened with El Cunt.
[/quote]
Exactly yet people are calling the two the same. Look, we all know Carroll was a diehard Geordie fan and it must have hurt him massively to leave the club he loves. But at Liverpool, both club and city, we make people welcome and that's what we'll do. I think he has tons of character on the pitch and that's what matters but he'll learn to love LFC too - as anyone with a footballing soul does.
[/quote]
If those texts are true, it makes this fucking saddening to read as pardew & Ashley tell bare faced lies to get out of the shit.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6716009,00.html
Don't know if this has been posted as I can't be fucked going back through 30 odd pages, but for a song, on RAWK, they're saying it should be to the tune of Sweet Caroline by Neil Diamond.
"Sweeeeet Carroll, 9, dah, dah, dah, dah."
Still needs work but has potential.
"Sweeeeet Carroll, 9, dah, dah, dah, dah."
Still needs work but has potential.
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=43933.msg1274268#msg1274268 date=1296562671]
to be honest the press are being douchebags about Carroll.
Gerrard has hardly been the golden child but if Carroll can develop half as well as Gerrard has then we'll have one hell of a player.
[/quote]
In other words the press are just being their usual selves.
Carroll will flourish with us. He'll love the club and the fans, and the King will get the best out of him. I wouldn't have paid THAT much for him, but it's done now and I'm confident he'll do well.
to be honest the press are being douchebags about Carroll.
Gerrard has hardly been the golden child but if Carroll can develop half as well as Gerrard has then we'll have one hell of a player.
[/quote]
In other words the press are just being their usual selves.
Carroll will flourish with us. He'll love the club and the fans, and the King will get the best out of him. I wouldn't have paid THAT much for him, but it's done now and I'm confident he'll do well.
[quote author=J Macleod link=topic=43933.msg1274274#msg1274274 date=1296562832]
Don't know if this has been posted as I can't be fucked going back through 30 odd pages, but for a song, on RAWK, they're saying it should be to the tune of Sweet Caroline by Neil Diamond.
"Sweeeeet Carroll, 9, dah, dah, dah, dah."
Still needs work but has potential.
[/quote]
works pretty well and of course we have the Boston conenction with FSG. Boston fans always sing this in their games, it's their YNWA. Look it up on youtube
Don't know if this has been posted as I can't be fucked going back through 30 odd pages, but for a song, on RAWK, they're saying it should be to the tune of Sweet Caroline by Neil Diamond.
"Sweeeeet Carroll, 9, dah, dah, dah, dah."
Still needs work but has potential.
[/quote]
works pretty well and of course we have the Boston conenction with FSG. Boston fans always sing this in their games, it's their YNWA. Look it up on youtube
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43933.msg1274284#msg1274284 date=1296563216]
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=43933.msg1274268#msg1274268 date=1296562671]
to be honest the press are being douchebags about Carroll.
Gerrard has hardly been the golden child but if Carroll can develop half as well as Gerrard has then we'll have one hell of a player.
[/quote]
In other words the press are just being their usual selves.
Carroll will flourish with us. He'll love the club and the fans, and the King will get the best out of him. I wouldn't have paid THAT much for him, but it's done now and I'm confident he'll do well.
[/quote]
Nah.
Worse.
Fourth page of mirror today was double spread on torres and Carroll.
Torres the father and lovable spaniard vs Carroll the dirty sexpest who eats children and plays dominoes with raul moats and Shipman every wednesday.
It's not a surprise that none of them are officially criticizing Torres words last night but it certainly seems to have gone noticed on Journo's twitters etc.
People know hes a cunt
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=43933.msg1274268#msg1274268 date=1296562671]
to be honest the press are being douchebags about Carroll.
Gerrard has hardly been the golden child but if Carroll can develop half as well as Gerrard has then we'll have one hell of a player.
[/quote]
In other words the press are just being their usual selves.
Carroll will flourish with us. He'll love the club and the fans, and the King will get the best out of him. I wouldn't have paid THAT much for him, but it's done now and I'm confident he'll do well.
[/quote]
Nah.
Worse.
Fourth page of mirror today was double spread on torres and Carroll.
Torres the father and lovable spaniard vs Carroll the dirty sexpest who eats children and plays dominoes with raul moats and Shipman every wednesday.
It's not a surprise that none of them are officially criticizing Torres words last night but it certainly seems to have gone noticed on Journo's twitters etc.
People know hes a cunt
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=43933.msg1274290#msg1274290 date=1296563408]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43933.msg1274284#msg1274284 date=1296563216]
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=43933.msg1274268#msg1274268 date=1296562671]
to be honest the press are being douchebags about Carroll.
Gerrard has hardly been the golden child but if Carroll can develop half as well as Gerrard has then we'll have one hell of a player.
[/quote]
In other words the press are just being their usual selves.
Carroll will flourish with us. He'll love the club and the fans, and the King will get the best out of him. I wouldn't have paid THAT much for him, but it's done now and I'm confident he'll do well.
[/quote]
Nah.
Worse.
Fourth page of mirror today was double spread on Torres and Carroll.
Torres the father and lovable spaniard vs Carroll the dirty sexpest who eats children and plays dominoes with raul moats and Shipman every wednesday.
It's not a surprise that none of them are officially criticizing Torres words last night but it certainly seems to have gone noticed on Journo's twitters etc.
People know hes a cunt
[/quote]
Its hardly surprising, its been happening for years.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43933.msg1274284#msg1274284 date=1296563216]
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=43933.msg1274268#msg1274268 date=1296562671]
to be honest the press are being douchebags about Carroll.
Gerrard has hardly been the golden child but if Carroll can develop half as well as Gerrard has then we'll have one hell of a player.
[/quote]
In other words the press are just being their usual selves.
Carroll will flourish with us. He'll love the club and the fans, and the King will get the best out of him. I wouldn't have paid THAT much for him, but it's done now and I'm confident he'll do well.
[/quote]
Nah.
Worse.
Fourth page of mirror today was double spread on Torres and Carroll.
Torres the father and lovable spaniard vs Carroll the dirty sexpest who eats children and plays dominoes with raul moats and Shipman every wednesday.
It's not a surprise that none of them are officially criticizing Torres words last night but it certainly seems to have gone noticed on Journo's twitters etc.
People know hes a cunt
[/quote]
Its hardly surprising, its been happening for years.
[quote author=VeggardSub link=topic=43933.msg1274072#msg1274072 date=1296556432]
can someone on this forum explain something which has been puzzling me about this transfer... How the hell does someone with a torn thigh muscle pass a medical?
[/quote]
I think the medical isn't mainly to check if the player is currently injured but if he has any possible long term problems.
can someone on this forum explain something which has been puzzling me about this transfer... How the hell does someone with a torn thigh muscle pass a medical?
[/quote]
I think the medical isn't mainly to check if the player is currently injured but if he has any possible long term problems.
“So much for Moneyballâ€
Filed under: General — rich @ 8:50 am
Andy Carroll’s £35 million move has surprised a lot of people, particularly in the light of the Liverpool owners’ reputations as careful, smarter investors. NESV, as you’ll know, famously took over baseball’s Boston Red Sox and won a long awaited World Series, and in so doing used what were termed “moneyball†principles.
People were unsure what that might mean in a footballing context, and they certainly didn’t expect *this*. I’m not really surprised.
A quick overview of Moneyball: this was a book written by a gifted writer called Michael Lewis. Lewis had extraordinary access to the Oakland Athletics baseball club, run by a man named Billy Beane. Despite not spending much money relative to his peers, Beane was able to consistently win lots of games. How? Among other things, sabermetrics.
Sabermetrics is a term invented by Bill James, a compiler of statistics and another good writer. Saber comes from the acronym SABR, the Society of American Baseball Research. Metrics is measurement. Sabermetrics. James and others counted a lot of things in the 70s (baseball is a series of countable actions: pitch, hit, run, pitch, swing, miss, etc). James et al *proved* a number of things about the game that were not then accepted within the game. Proved them, beyond any doubt.
But the ideas didn’t catch on. Baseball insiders complained that these stat geeks hadn’t played the game, and should spend more time at the ballpark rather than sitting in their mothers’ basements (this still comes up as a put-down, even now). So these ideas, which could have transformed the way teams ran themselves, didn’t catch on.
James had a hard-core underground following though, and self-published four annuals of his writing. He got a book deal and from 1982 to 1988 published his work each off-season. It remains fantastic stuff, combining hard analysis with a very readable style.
His readership grew and in time some of these readers acquired positions of responsibility within baseball. One of these men was Sandy Alderson, who ended up running the Oakland A’s. He hired Billy Beane and suggested Beane read James’ work.
Something clicked in Beane’s mind: of course! Beane’s revelation was so strong because he himself had been exactly the kind of player that had been overvalued by teams in the past. Tall, athletic, handsome (some baseball scouts looked for ‘the good face’ which they thought showed character, resourcefulness, etc), super-fast. Scouts would see Beane in action and drool. Never mind that he couldn’t really hit a baseball.
Beane realised that actual production on the field was everything, and with James’ analyses, found better ways to measure this production. In the old days players would be valued by their speed, by their batting average (how often they hit the ball safely) and something called RBI (how often they hit the ball and a teammate scored), but these things didn’t tell us enough about a player: sure they helped, and the good players would have good scores in these measures, but so too would some bad players. What’s more, a lot of good players would not score well on these measures. They might be slow, or miss the ball too often (but when they did hit it, they hit it a long way). These players would be undervalued by baseball’s decision makers who were conditioned into an old school mindset.
So Beane sought out players who didn’t look like athletes and who were productive in ways that the mainstream didn’t value highly enough. By doing this he could put together an effective team on the cheap. This is a gross oversimplification, of course, but the point holds and the method worked: Oakland won a lot of games.
Michael Lewis went to find out more, and wrote a book outlining a lot of these methods, profiling a number of Beane’s players and telling a really engaging story. He called the book Moneyball, and a phenomenon was born. Old school baseball types rejected the book, and one prominent commentator (effectively Alan Shearer) even denounced Billy Beane for writing such a book bragging about his accomplishments! (of course Beane had done no such thing, and didn’t even know what Lewis was writing.)
John Henry, a wealthy man through his work in the financial markets, was also (I believe) aware of Bill James. The financial markets are a bit like baseball in their search for undervalued assets, so James, Beane and the Moneyball phenomenon resonated with him. And if Beane could be so successful without spending much, what might be achieved with the appropriate financial backing? Henry and his team bought the Red Sox and went about finding out.
They hired a 28 year old to run the side, Theo Epstein. Epstein knew Bill James’ work inside out, but hired James as a consultant anyway. He spent money, lots of it, and after 100 years of winning nothing, the Red Sox soon won the World Series. Moneyball vindicated!
Kind of. The Red Sox took things to a new level. A quick look at their roster of players shows that they used some Moneyball techniques: First baseman Kevin Millar wasn’t wanted in Major League Baseball and was just about to sign on in Japan before the Red Sox signed him; Mark Bellhorn was a scrappy player who had his ups and downs, but who certainly wasn’t considered championship calibre before joining Boston. But he did all the important things that people don’t notice well. David Ortiz, who hit a lot of big hits (literally and figuratively) for the Red Sox, had been let go by the Minnesota Twins. He could barely run, but could wallop a baseball. Bill Mueller, the third baseman, was like an improved version of Bellhorn. Manny Ramirez, their eccentric outfielder, was mightily productive but hard to control. The Sox kept faith, happy to let his work on the field do the talking. The pitchers were good in anyone’s eyes, but it’s worth noting that the ‘missing piece of the jigsaw’ was Curt Schilling, a player for whom the Sox had to pay a lot to acquire.
Moneyball? I think you’d define it as making decisions for a reason. They bought in a number of good, undervalued players, but realised that this alone isn’t enough to win things, so supplemented these core parts with superstar talents like Curt Schilling.
Let’s bring this back to Liverpool. One of the issues NESV had with the current squad, and also Roy Hodgson’s signings, is that the players are all relatively old. This is generally when a player is over-valued: they have built up big contracts but are probably past their peak; they are trading on their fame now, not necessarily the ability that earned this fame in the first place. So there’ll be a big emphasis on young talent, talent coming into its peak and which might then be usefully sold on in due course. (The Torres deal is terrific for them, too: a player who was briefly great, but has since only been good, but who still commands the fee of a great player).
Andy Carroll makes sense for Liverpool on a few of levels. One: he’s young. In five years he’ll be in his prime (or perhaps past his prime, but near enough that someone will still want him around) and can then be sold on for good money again. If transfer fees exceed inflation (as surely they will, especially if there’s an economic recovery) then there’s a fair chance that a good amount of that £35million can be recouped. Especially because two: he should age well. He hasn’t played a lot of games for his age, and his skillset is one that ought to age well. Three: he’s unique. Seriously, Carroll has an ability that not many others have. He’s phenomenal in the air, has a decent touch, and appears to have the instincts to make the most of his skills. Four: (ack) he’ll enhance the brand. He’s John Charles, John Toshack, a most English of English centre-forwards. Liverpool fans are nothing if not backward looking: they’ll love their all action number 9. He’ll make the club a fortune in shirt sales around the world.
So there are reasons to spend big on Carroll. No, he’s not undervalued at all; but he’s not without value, and as a signing he makes sense. Liverpool’s owners will have done the analysis and will know that success costs money. The more you spend the better you get. From there it will have been a question of working out how to spend that money. You can buy seven five million players for £35 million, but then you end up no better off; you can buy three ten million players and maybe that does make a difference; but if you think you have found premium talent, talent that is not available from any other source, you have to pay up. With Carroll and Suarez Liverpool have paid up; they’ll know what they’re doing here, and just as Chelsea and City had to spend away to kick start their ascendency, so too are John Henry’s team.He needs defenders now and a few more £10 million types dotted around the pitch to make this really pay off, but the recovery is on. It’s not Moneyball in the “undervalued player†sense, but it’s Moneyball in the “we know what we’re doing†sense.
Filed under: General — rich @ 8:50 am
Andy Carroll’s £35 million move has surprised a lot of people, particularly in the light of the Liverpool owners’ reputations as careful, smarter investors. NESV, as you’ll know, famously took over baseball’s Boston Red Sox and won a long awaited World Series, and in so doing used what were termed “moneyball†principles.
People were unsure what that might mean in a footballing context, and they certainly didn’t expect *this*. I’m not really surprised.
A quick overview of Moneyball: this was a book written by a gifted writer called Michael Lewis. Lewis had extraordinary access to the Oakland Athletics baseball club, run by a man named Billy Beane. Despite not spending much money relative to his peers, Beane was able to consistently win lots of games. How? Among other things, sabermetrics.
Sabermetrics is a term invented by Bill James, a compiler of statistics and another good writer. Saber comes from the acronym SABR, the Society of American Baseball Research. Metrics is measurement. Sabermetrics. James and others counted a lot of things in the 70s (baseball is a series of countable actions: pitch, hit, run, pitch, swing, miss, etc). James et al *proved* a number of things about the game that were not then accepted within the game. Proved them, beyond any doubt.
But the ideas didn’t catch on. Baseball insiders complained that these stat geeks hadn’t played the game, and should spend more time at the ballpark rather than sitting in their mothers’ basements (this still comes up as a put-down, even now). So these ideas, which could have transformed the way teams ran themselves, didn’t catch on.
James had a hard-core underground following though, and self-published four annuals of his writing. He got a book deal and from 1982 to 1988 published his work each off-season. It remains fantastic stuff, combining hard analysis with a very readable style.
His readership grew and in time some of these readers acquired positions of responsibility within baseball. One of these men was Sandy Alderson, who ended up running the Oakland A’s. He hired Billy Beane and suggested Beane read James’ work.
Something clicked in Beane’s mind: of course! Beane’s revelation was so strong because he himself had been exactly the kind of player that had been overvalued by teams in the past. Tall, athletic, handsome (some baseball scouts looked for ‘the good face’ which they thought showed character, resourcefulness, etc), super-fast. Scouts would see Beane in action and drool. Never mind that he couldn’t really hit a baseball.
Beane realised that actual production on the field was everything, and with James’ analyses, found better ways to measure this production. In the old days players would be valued by their speed, by their batting average (how often they hit the ball safely) and something called RBI (how often they hit the ball and a teammate scored), but these things didn’t tell us enough about a player: sure they helped, and the good players would have good scores in these measures, but so too would some bad players. What’s more, a lot of good players would not score well on these measures. They might be slow, or miss the ball too often (but when they did hit it, they hit it a long way). These players would be undervalued by baseball’s decision makers who were conditioned into an old school mindset.
So Beane sought out players who didn’t look like athletes and who were productive in ways that the mainstream didn’t value highly enough. By doing this he could put together an effective team on the cheap. This is a gross oversimplification, of course, but the point holds and the method worked: Oakland won a lot of games.
Michael Lewis went to find out more, and wrote a book outlining a lot of these methods, profiling a number of Beane’s players and telling a really engaging story. He called the book Moneyball, and a phenomenon was born. Old school baseball types rejected the book, and one prominent commentator (effectively Alan Shearer) even denounced Billy Beane for writing such a book bragging about his accomplishments! (of course Beane had done no such thing, and didn’t even know what Lewis was writing.)
John Henry, a wealthy man through his work in the financial markets, was also (I believe) aware of Bill James. The financial markets are a bit like baseball in their search for undervalued assets, so James, Beane and the Moneyball phenomenon resonated with him. And if Beane could be so successful without spending much, what might be achieved with the appropriate financial backing? Henry and his team bought the Red Sox and went about finding out.
They hired a 28 year old to run the side, Theo Epstein. Epstein knew Bill James’ work inside out, but hired James as a consultant anyway. He spent money, lots of it, and after 100 years of winning nothing, the Red Sox soon won the World Series. Moneyball vindicated!
Kind of. The Red Sox took things to a new level. A quick look at their roster of players shows that they used some Moneyball techniques: First baseman Kevin Millar wasn’t wanted in Major League Baseball and was just about to sign on in Japan before the Red Sox signed him; Mark Bellhorn was a scrappy player who had his ups and downs, but who certainly wasn’t considered championship calibre before joining Boston. But he did all the important things that people don’t notice well. David Ortiz, who hit a lot of big hits (literally and figuratively) for the Red Sox, had been let go by the Minnesota Twins. He could barely run, but could wallop a baseball. Bill Mueller, the third baseman, was like an improved version of Bellhorn. Manny Ramirez, their eccentric outfielder, was mightily productive but hard to control. The Sox kept faith, happy to let his work on the field do the talking. The pitchers were good in anyone’s eyes, but it’s worth noting that the ‘missing piece of the jigsaw’ was Curt Schilling, a player for whom the Sox had to pay a lot to acquire.
Moneyball? I think you’d define it as making decisions for a reason. They bought in a number of good, undervalued players, but realised that this alone isn’t enough to win things, so supplemented these core parts with superstar talents like Curt Schilling.
Let’s bring this back to Liverpool. One of the issues NESV had with the current squad, and also Roy Hodgson’s signings, is that the players are all relatively old. This is generally when a player is over-valued: they have built up big contracts but are probably past their peak; they are trading on their fame now, not necessarily the ability that earned this fame in the first place. So there’ll be a big emphasis on young talent, talent coming into its peak and which might then be usefully sold on in due course. (The Torres deal is terrific for them, too: a player who was briefly great, but has since only been good, but who still commands the fee of a great player).
Andy Carroll makes sense for Liverpool on a few of levels. One: he’s young. In five years he’ll be in his prime (or perhaps past his prime, but near enough that someone will still want him around) and can then be sold on for good money again. If transfer fees exceed inflation (as surely they will, especially if there’s an economic recovery) then there’s a fair chance that a good amount of that £35million can be recouped. Especially because two: he should age well. He hasn’t played a lot of games for his age, and his skillset is one that ought to age well. Three: he’s unique. Seriously, Carroll has an ability that not many others have. He’s phenomenal in the air, has a decent touch, and appears to have the instincts to make the most of his skills. Four: (ack) he’ll enhance the brand. He’s John Charles, John Toshack, a most English of English centre-forwards. Liverpool fans are nothing if not backward looking: they’ll love their all action number 9. He’ll make the club a fortune in shirt sales around the world.
So there are reasons to spend big on Carroll. No, he’s not undervalued at all; but he’s not without value, and as a signing he makes sense. Liverpool’s owners will have done the analysis and will know that success costs money. The more you spend the better you get. From there it will have been a question of working out how to spend that money. You can buy seven five million players for £35 million, but then you end up no better off; you can buy three ten million players and maybe that does make a difference; but if you think you have found premium talent, talent that is not available from any other source, you have to pay up. With Carroll and Suarez Liverpool have paid up; they’ll know what they’re doing here, and just as Chelsea and City had to spend away to kick start their ascendency, so too are John Henry’s team.He needs defenders now and a few more £10 million types dotted around the pitch to make this really pay off, but the recovery is on. It’s not Moneyball in the “undervalued player†sense, but it’s Moneyball in the “we know what we’re doing†sense.
[quote author=737Max link=topic=43933.msg1274289#msg1274289 date=1296563392]
[quote author=J Macleod link=topic=43933.msg1274274#msg1274274 date=1296562832]
Don't know if this has been posted as I can't be fucked going back through 30 odd pages, but for a song, on RAWK, they're saying it should be to the tune of Sweet Caroline by Neil Diamond.
"Sweeeeet Carroll, 9, dah, dah, dah, dah."
Still needs work but has potential.
[/quote]
works pretty well and of course we have the Boston conenction with FSG. Boston fans always sing this in their games, it's their YNWA. Look it up on youtube
[/quote]
Nice idea but the chorus is too short.
[quote author=J Macleod link=topic=43933.msg1274274#msg1274274 date=1296562832]
Don't know if this has been posted as I can't be fucked going back through 30 odd pages, but for a song, on RAWK, they're saying it should be to the tune of Sweet Caroline by Neil Diamond.
"Sweeeeet Carroll, 9, dah, dah, dah, dah."
Still needs work but has potential.
[/quote]
works pretty well and of course we have the Boston conenction with FSG. Boston fans always sing this in their games, it's their YNWA. Look it up on youtube
[/quote]
Nice idea but the chorus is too short.
Good article that, Buddha. Thanks for posting it.
I don't care how many fights he gets in as long as he washes his hands enough.
[quote author=vikas link=topic=43933.msg1274329#msg1274329 date=1296564575]
Just thought, we'll be a threat from corners again, get in!
[/quote]
Not if Gerrard takes them all....
Just thought, we'll be a threat from corners again, get in!
[/quote]
Not if Gerrard takes them all....
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=43933.msg1274342#msg1274342 date=1296565043]
He is going to be pure awesomeness
[/quote]
Hurray!
He is going to be pure awesomeness
[/quote]
Hurray!
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=43933.msg1274342#msg1274342 date=1296565043]
He is going to be pure awesomeness
[/quote]
Times infinity.
He is going to be pure awesomeness
[/quote]
Times infinity.
Just thinking there will be a great welcome for Carroll and Suarez when we go to Sunderland
Michael Martin from the Newcastle United fanzine True Faith tells us what we can expect from our record signing Andy Carroll...
To say we Newcastle United supporters are devastated by the loss of Andy Carroll is probably an under-statement. I can only compare his departure to Rooney's transfer to Man Utd from your good friends Everton in recent years.
Carroll was/is, absolutely 100 per cent, one of us. Born and bred only a mile or so from the Dunston community that gave the world the one and only Paul Gascoigne in the team's district of Gateshead, Carroll's Geordie credentials are absolutely impeccable. When he signed a five-year contract and grew in stature when he put on a No.9 shirt worn with distinction by the likes of Shearer, Ferdinand, Cole, Macdonald, Davies, White, Milburn, Gallacher, we all thought we had a local icon in the making.
What's not to like about Andy Carroll? He's massive and by and large unplayable in the air, as John Terry testified. He has pace, courage, is clever on the ground and he knows where the net is. His control is tremendous, a good first touch but you'll love the way he can twist his body round to take the ball on his chest and keep moving all in one go. You'll love the way that when he's on the deck he bounces back up like a rubber ball. He obviously loves being a footballer and wants to play. He has that something in him you'll recognise in Steven Gerrard. On the park, he has a decent temperament. He's not easy wind up and, of course, he's a difficult lad to bully given the size of him.
Off the park, he's had his moments but although I've not been in his company, plenty that have attest to a decent, straightforward, working-class lad.
You aren't buying the finished product. He will make mistakes but he'll come on and as a tip, he'll be a better No.9 than Alan Shearer when he's fully formed. Not that he shares a striker's style with our ex-centre-forward. He's more often compared to Duncan Ferguson. I wish him all of the best and we'd have him back in a heart-beat.
To say we Newcastle United supporters are devastated by the loss of Andy Carroll is probably an under-statement. I can only compare his departure to Rooney's transfer to Man Utd from your good friends Everton in recent years.
Carroll was/is, absolutely 100 per cent, one of us. Born and bred only a mile or so from the Dunston community that gave the world the one and only Paul Gascoigne in the team's district of Gateshead, Carroll's Geordie credentials are absolutely impeccable. When he signed a five-year contract and grew in stature when he put on a No.9 shirt worn with distinction by the likes of Shearer, Ferdinand, Cole, Macdonald, Davies, White, Milburn, Gallacher, we all thought we had a local icon in the making.
What's not to like about Andy Carroll? He's massive and by and large unplayable in the air, as John Terry testified. He has pace, courage, is clever on the ground and he knows where the net is. His control is tremendous, a good first touch but you'll love the way he can twist his body round to take the ball on his chest and keep moving all in one go. You'll love the way that when he's on the deck he bounces back up like a rubber ball. He obviously loves being a footballer and wants to play. He has that something in him you'll recognise in Steven Gerrard. On the park, he has a decent temperament. He's not easy wind up and, of course, he's a difficult lad to bully given the size of him.
Off the park, he's had his moments but although I've not been in his company, plenty that have attest to a decent, straightforward, working-class lad.
You aren't buying the finished product. He will make mistakes but he'll come on and as a tip, he'll be a better No.9 than Alan Shearer when he's fully formed. Not that he shares a striker's style with our ex-centre-forward. He's more often compared to Duncan Ferguson. I wish him all of the best and we'd have him back in a heart-beat.
- Status
