Andy Carroll In Danger Yo !
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I know the deal is just a story at this present time but if is true IT IS an embarrassing deal man. West Ham will renege on the deal and try negotiate a cheaper price. Unless we have it air tight that they must pay the 16million if they avoid relegation. Can we do that?
Also if they get relegated we get back a player who won't be happy here with a manager who doesn't want him and for what, two million quid. Fuck that. Let's keep the player our club forked out 35million for. The player who found form towards the end of the season and did okay at the Euro's when called upon. Rogers played Graham up front last season and didn't hurt his 'system'.
It has the potential to be Aquilani saga all over again.
Maybe if you could make us understand why this was such a good idea we wouldn't talk the club down, you know like you did with signing Downing last summer.
Ross, the retarded club is retarded comment was so shite it hurts.
Most of your posts about what the club should do instead is just bonkers anyway.
I havent said its a good idea. If we move him on it has to be on a permanent basis. But this loan move will be like Zlatans Milan move, its a must buy. That was all I was saying.
But having an 80k player on the bench that the manager doesnt want to use isnt a good option either. If he's not playing he'll be worth even less next season.
You can bet your hairy arse that Newcastle will make a loan bid aswell.
Most of your posts about what the club should do instead is just bonkers anyway.
I havent said its a good idea. If we move him on it has to be on a permanent basis. But this loan move will be like Zlatans Milan move, its a must buy. That was all I was saying.
But having an 80k player on the bench that the manager doesnt want to use isnt a good option either. If he's not playing he'll be worth even less next season.
You can bet your hairy arse that Newcastle will make a loan bid aswell.
I dont disagree mate. But the commitment to buy clause can only be not activated by relegation. Carroll obvs can say no aswell, so its not a good deal.
But having a 80k player on the bench for a year isnt good either. Newcastle will probably offer a loan move aswell, and basiclly we're fucked.
The only positive aspect aboutthis deal, and whyI would consider it, is that instead of him being in the stands or on the bench. We get 2 mill + 4 mill saved in wages, and possibly 17 next summer.
If he plays well for West Ham his value will increease and if he turns them down there will be other
interested parties. Thats the only thing I can think of about this deal.
If we have a replacement ready thatwill come in on loan aswell it could make some sense.
It should and has be a permament deal. But that looks extremely unlikely.
And tell me Hansern what are we going to do with the 2m we get from him ?
Who will we sign that will help us this season ?
There is no fucking positive about this deal. He'll be worth more than 17m next summer if we play him this season.
And we won't get anybody who will do better for us this season for what we have freed up. It's a monsterously stupid deal. It's another short term thinking scenrio, the kind of thinking that has us sitting on a wage bill of 132m and in 8th place.
Who will we sign that will help us this season ?
There is no fucking positive about this deal. He'll be worth more than 17m next summer if we play him this season.
And we won't get anybody who will do better for us this season for what we have freed up. It's a monsterously stupid deal. It's another short term thinking scenrio, the kind of thinking that has us sitting on a wage bill of 132m and in 8th place.
Im certainly more sick of our club being fucking pathetic and shite than i am of people saying it.
Can someone tell me what qualities Graham had last season for Swansea that Andy Carroll doesn't? Can someone efresh my memory? Was Graham a constant fixture in the Swansea side?
I'd stomach a sale at a reduced price if Rogers was using Andy as a tool to generate funds, but a initial loan deal is stupid. Simply baffling. We've been burned by this before. Scott Carson and Aquilani off the top of my head.
Disclaimer : I'm willing to change my tune if loaning Carroll free's up wages to loan a new striker of the caliber of The Hig or Benzema.
I'd stomach a sale at a reduced price if Rogers was using Andy as a tool to generate funds, but a initial loan deal is stupid. Simply baffling. We've been burned by this before. Scott Carson and Aquilani off the top of my head.
Disclaimer : I'm willing to change my tune if loaning Carroll free's up wages to loan a new striker of the caliber of The Hig or Benzema.
still don't understand why we would let him go when as an asset he has just started to repay our gamble.
Sell him when he is playing shit but when he has just hit form ??? I don't get it.
I'm still hoping its all bollox and just West Ham trying to convince their fans they are trying to spend big
Sell him when he is playing shit but when he has just hit form ??? I don't get it.
I'm still hoping its all bollox and just West Ham trying to convince their fans they are trying to spend big
For ILD
no oncey by saying they will spend £17 million after
I hope its all bollox and surely Andy has the last say anyway even if clubs agree.
He has just scored a cracking goal in the Euro's which should guarentee him England squad for a while, his reputation is starting to grow with a top team, why would he go to relegation fodder
I hope its all bollox and surely Andy has the last say anyway even if clubs agree.
He has just scored a cracking goal in the Euro's which should guarentee him England squad for a while, his reputation is starting to grow with a top team, why would he go to relegation fodder
I think that's massively unfair Oncy. We're learning as we go along. G&H blindly spent the club into trouble, at least we're addressing the issue and trying to get out of it. For the record, I doubt Carroll, Downing and co are on the same wages as the likes of Aquilani, but we trusted a manager to buy those players and it was largely money wasted, even on Carroll.
I don't think you can give them too much grief for coming in and allowing us to spend, it's the manager that fucked up, ultimately. Now they've seemingly said that we won't spend as big this time, we'll cull the weekly wage bill by 500k, get rid of a few big earners that aren't justifying either their price tag or their wage, invest in the future a bit more which means lower transfer fees and lower wages, and trust a manager that's done it the season before on a small budget. Sell a few big names that aren't cutting it, as seems the case with Carroll and Aquilani, and use the money to reinvest, or at least free up the wages in the meantime.
The £2m is a rough deal though, agreed, but that's just it, it hasn't been agreed yet. If it's a watertight deal that guarantees us £17m if the Hammers stay up, then fair enough, £17m next season is a massive boost to us then, it just doesn't help us in the short term.
How can you even try to put a positive spin on selling a 35m forward for a 2m short term mate?
Seriously.
Thats alright. We'll still get 1.5m then. That'll pay Carraghers wages untill November.
I'm not, the last bit was just thrown in, I was talking more about successive shite managers having us outside the top four with a squad of overpaid players, like I said, they're trying to get away from that, it seems.
Like I said, "2m is a rough deal". We're consciously trying to get away from having overpaid players on the fringe of things, Maxi and Kuyt have gone, Aquilani will go and it looks like one more high earner will go.
Mate I get that we have no money. I get that we have overspent. I get that the wage bill is too high.
So I can live with selling Kuyt, Maxi, Aquilani. I could live with selling Carragher too.
What I cannot live with is selling players to buy players. We have been doing it for years and its fucking retarded and doesnt work.
If we changed NO ONE this summer the squad having a year together would perform better. Selling Carroll, Agger or whomever else to buy more mid level affordable like for like maybe a bit younger talent is just retarded.
We will go nowhere unless we stop this cycle of having half a new first team every bloody year.
If we cant afford new player....DONT SIGN ANY.
So I can live with selling Kuyt, Maxi, Aquilani. I could live with selling Carragher too.
What I cannot live with is selling players to buy players. We have been doing it for years and its fucking retarded and doesnt work.
If we changed NO ONE this summer the squad having a year together would perform better. Selling Carroll, Agger or whomever else to buy more mid level affordable like for like maybe a bit younger talent is just retarded.
We will go nowhere unless we stop this cycle of having half a new first team every bloody year.
If we cant afford new player....DONT SIGN ANY.
I agree Oncy, I don't know what you're arguing with. You said successive managers have fucked us over and you seemed to be suggesting that's continuing. I was merely pointing out that we seem to be addressing the issue you were picking holes in. Getting rid of overpaid fringe players that are on ridiculous wages.
For the record, read my posts in the Agger thread (which I think you did anyway because you said we were spot on with our points), I'm dead set against selling anyone we don't have to, we should keep the best of the squad and add to it. We shouldn't become a selling club and there's no justification for selling peak players and subscribing to Rosco's "Manager's should just coach and sell their best players to fund some shite philosophy about bring in untried young players, just because they have several more years of football ahead of them".
For the record, read my posts in the Agger thread (which I think you did anyway because you said we were spot on with our points), I'm dead set against selling anyone we don't have to, we should keep the best of the squad and add to it. We shouldn't become a selling club and there's no justification for selling peak players and subscribing to Rosco's "Manager's should just coach and sell their best players to fund some shite philosophy about bring in untried young players, just because they have several more years of football ahead of them".
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well firstly everybody involved in this seems to be denying a deal has been struck , well so the Echo say .So maybe everyone should calm down.
But anyway if the debate is £2m loan with a binding agreement to buy for 16/17m if they stay up then in terms of the final total , 18/19m with his wages gone, then surely it's tempting . I reckon that's an excellent price for him . It's probably more than his true original value before we bought him and he hasn't exactly done loads here to increase that price has he . I still for the life of me don't understand why some of you rate him so highly or think a few decent sub appearances show he's top class and worth so much . It seems everyone basis their opinion on what he supposedly might become, this unstoppable force who'll batter defences and bang goals in . Well judging on what i've seen of him for us then i just can't see that happening.And one things for sure , there's no point in having him sat on the bench doing fuck all like last season again .
But anyway i'm looking at this deal in terms of the final price. Right now if that was the deal i would still have some questions on how it would work or how much benefit it would be to us . It seems a bit of a gamble in terms of what if they are relegated and how much would we be able to spend right now to replace him . But none of us ,apart from Rosco it seems, has any true idea on the club finances or budget or what we are able to do and cover . They might be more than prepared to take and cover the gamble , realising it was a monumental fuck up in the first place .
Actually the bigger concern is who they would replace him with cause we are pretty light up front . I'm not against the dempsey signing but i would have hoped that was to be with another striker/forward and not the only one .
But anyway if the debate is £2m loan with a binding agreement to buy for 16/17m if they stay up then in terms of the final total , 18/19m with his wages gone, then surely it's tempting . I reckon that's an excellent price for him . It's probably more than his true original value before we bought him and he hasn't exactly done loads here to increase that price has he . I still for the life of me don't understand why some of you rate him so highly or think a few decent sub appearances show he's top class and worth so much . It seems everyone basis their opinion on what he supposedly might become, this unstoppable force who'll batter defences and bang goals in . Well judging on what i've seen of him for us then i just can't see that happening.And one things for sure , there's no point in having him sat on the bench doing fuck all like last season again .
But anyway i'm looking at this deal in terms of the final price. Right now if that was the deal i would still have some questions on how it would work or how much benefit it would be to us . It seems a bit of a gamble in terms of what if they are relegated and how much would we be able to spend right now to replace him . But none of us ,apart from Rosco it seems, has any true idea on the club finances or budget or what we are able to do and cover . They might be more than prepared to take and cover the gamble , realising it was a monumental fuck up in the first place .
Actually the bigger concern is who they would replace him with cause we are pretty light up front . I'm not against the dempsey signing but i would have hoped that was to be with another striker/forward and not the only one .
My point is that we are making noises about selling Carroll, Agger, Skrtel and just about anyone else. And thats THIS manager.
Meet the new dick same as the old dicks.
I'll take it back if we dont sell any of our players. But you know we will. To fund another re-building programme.
The remit from the owners should have been THIS is your squad. You can have X to strengthen it and thats it.
Dream world I know.
You dont HAVE to buy Ross.
It's amazing how limited some people minds are.
There is a right time to hang onto players at any cost, it isn't when you're in 8th and need to reduce the wage bill by 25m.
Only a fucking moron would think that's the way to success, we'll be successful more quickly if we gut the squad and start afresh rather than piecemeal try to add cheap players to an ageing expensive squad.
No one is against shipping the dead wood Ross so stop intimating you have the monopoly on reason ffs.
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