It took ages til people thought Lucas could be good.
If anyones gonna make him boss, it's gonna be Rodgers anyway
If anyones gonna make him boss, it's gonna be Rodgers anyway
Allen
- Thread starter rurikbird
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My ego, when it comes to the ability to assess footballer's talents, is obscene - I would make Ryan seem like a shrinking violet, which is why I tend not to get involved in these debates (as I don't value most people's opinions). Sufficeth to say Joe Allen is a very good footballer who may (or may not) come good for us. The mere fact that the idiot Glock (welcome back Glock) doesn't rate him should be all the evidence you need to support the theory that Allen is a very good player.
Out of interest, what does his presence in a midfield trio alongside Gerrard and Coutinho offer that Henderson doesn't offer?
If he's good he wouldve shown it to us already...passing sideways and a couple of tackles here and there does not make him good. Or perhaps you have a very low standard in accessing players or easily get excited by sideways passing players.
I tell you what. ..go and watch Cbampionship football and let the big boys talk about this
It's not Glock mate, it's some whopper doing a poor impression of impersonating him.
I agree though, Allen is a very good footballer, I'm just not sure how or if ever he'll fit into our team. Maybe in a few years time etc when Gerrard has retired and we're playing consistently higher up the pitch.
Anyone hoping for an Aaron Ramsey like improvement?
Right now, he's good at keeping things ticking over. A solid cog in the machine of what we're trying to achieve. A valuable squad member. If he wants to get to that next level, he'll need to add a trick or two to his repertoire, a little more penetration with his passing and some long range shooting/better finishing (that Everton miss still haunts me). Can he get there? Why not, he's young enough still. I see him as a 5-7/10 player. We need an 8 from Joe if he ever wants to command a first team place.
Right now, he's good at keeping things ticking over. A solid cog in the machine of what we're trying to achieve. A valuable squad member. If he wants to get to that next level, he'll need to add a trick or two to his repertoire, a little more penetration with his passing and some long range shooting/better finishing (that Everton miss still haunts me). Can he get there? Why not, he's young enough still. I see him as a 5-7/10 player. We need an 8 from Joe if he ever wants to command a first team place.
Allen would not be a good replacement for Henderson; he'd be an alternative to Coutinho i.e...............
......................Henderson.......Gerrard........................
.....................................Allen.................................
.............Sterling..............................Suarez.........
..............................Sturridge...................,..
Allen is the perfect conduit in a free-flowing team; he keeps the ball moving, spots opportunities for incisive passes quickly and rarely loses possession. When he broke into the team originally he did okay despite the fact he was surrounded by the likes of Downing, Lucas, Henderson, Shelvey etc. All those players are instinctive players with little or no intuitive nouse (and 3 of them are very average). If Allen is surrounded by more intuitive players such as Coutinho, Suarez, Sturridge, Gerrard etc he'll flourish but his injury came at the wrong time i.e. around the time we signed Sturridge & Coutinho and I reckon if he ever gets a run of games in the team he'll thrive.
When he got possession originally; he'd look up and see Downing running up a blind alley, Shelvey running furiously but aimlessly, Lucas standing in his own half etc, etc and his only 2 options were to try and find Suarez or Gerrard (who's not as mobile as he once was).
If he gets a decent run in the team (depending on who he replaces) he can get possession and he'll be spoilt for choice with Suarez, Sterling, Sturridge, Gerrard and maybe an overlapping full back to choose from. If we have 3 very mobile, elusive attackers (which we now have) I would be very confident in Allen's ability to destroy opposition defences with through balls to these players.
First things first he needs to play regularly to get his confidence up (like Henderson needed) and it's going to be difficult to give him many starts because the front 6 are looking very good but if Coutinho picked up a knock I'd have every confidence in Allen coming in and doing a very good job.
If we qualify for the CL next season we're going to need a decent sized squad of very good players and Allen should be one of them.
I think he played well - made some good passes, tried some that didn't come off and was always offering himself as an option in the midfield battle. He wasn't as combative as Hendo often is, which is what we needed in that game based on Arsenal knowing they had to get up in our faces from the off. I think he will continue to be part of the squad and be influential for us, especially next season when we will have a lot more games.
I have faith.
I have faith.
I'm actually liking the sound of our midfield options when we are injury free:
------------Lucas/Gerrard
--------Hendo-------Allen/Coutinho
With the likelihood of another CM to come in, and say Suso to also come back. They are all really starting to get to grips with playing as a unit which I think has been a major benefit of such a spread out schedule - lots of time in the training ground!
------------Lucas/Gerrard
--------Hendo-------Allen/Coutinho
With the likelihood of another CM to come in, and say Suso to also come back. They are all really starting to get to grips with playing as a unit which I think has been a major benefit of such a spread out schedule - lots of time in the training ground!
Really? It's a good impersonation, some of the shite he spouts is worthy of Glock.
I think Suso becomes the natural replacement for an injured Coutinho. He has always looked much more influential in a more central position. I'd just hope he's learned to work as hard as Coutinho, who is a gad fly without the ball.
That's it in a nutshell. No matter how "very good" a lot of people have decided he is, he isn't getting picked when fully fit because he just isn't... errr.... good enough to provide what the manager seems to want.
What bugs me is the way supporters (of all teams) opine that certain players are not very good just because they don't have a successful spell at their club. Forlan at United, Cantona at Leeds, Coutinho at Inter, Pique at United, Sneijder at Madrid etc, etc, etc there are a myriad of world class players who have flopped for one reason or another at various clubs. Allen might leave us soon and be deemed a flop but he's still a very good player.
Awful comparisons. You really think Allen will get another shot at big club to prove himself if it doesn't work here?
I actually think he is a decent squad option who may come good, though we overpayed for him so like hendo needs to grow some balls.
he'll go to someone like Southampton if we sell him and he'll do well
I'm not comparing him to players of that stature; I chose those players to show that even some of the best players in the world can look like flops sometimes and this happens even more often with lesser players (like Allen) who are nevertheless very good.
Coutinho is blessed with skills and flair and composure with or without the ball on the pitch…where as Suso need to work hard and gain experience before he would come to half the level Countinho is.
Thats the difference of work hard and work smart.
Never been impressed with him until that Spurs game and the few games afterwards, i would hold off and give him another season, in a mobile energetic midfield unit he looked the part.
That derby miss though, it still rankles.
Coutinho was given a shot at Liverpool, and had the talent to make it work. Suso is blessed with a comparable skill level IMHO, and could be perfect as a back up to Coutinho.
I like Allen. He's a tidy player who can do a very important job for us. He's technically good, has a good work ethic and is familiar with how Rodgers sets the team.
Him and Henderson can operate very well together as a pair of central midfielders tasked with closing opposition down.
Where his limits lie are in his attacking ability. In that sense, he's not unlike Henderson.
If we expect creativity & stacks of goals from the pair of them - the we're going to be disappointed.
However - it's all about options - and he gives us very useful options in the centre.
Him and Henderson can operate very well together as a pair of central midfielders tasked with closing opposition down.
Where his limits lie are in his attacking ability. In that sense, he's not unlike Henderson.
If we expect creativity & stacks of goals from the pair of them - the we're going to be disappointed.
However - it's all about options - and he gives us very useful options in the centre.
Yep, Teixera looks a possibility aswell.
Allen as Coutinho replacement?, no thanks, rather go and buy another creative player if that was the case and/or as above give Suso/Tex the chance.
But he's it a Coutinho replacement - he's a different option to do a different job on the pitch.
Suso & Tex provide even more different options.
Nonsense.
Yeah i know, it was mentioned up above, should of made it clearer what i was talking about.
How small do people want our squad to be next year? Even Aspas can score vs the really shit teams
Allen is rubbish and has produced nothing to prove otherwise or to write home about. He may well be a very good footballer, at another club. He should grow a pair. We certainly need better squad players than Allen, Cissokho, Johnson (who seems to have lost it it), Borini (who is thriving at Sunderland which incidentally is his level), and Coates. Lucas is another borderline player who is great when he is good which is too few and far between.
If these players want a future at Liverpool, they must apply themselves much like Henderson did. I'm all for second chances. Winning requires a ruthless streak both on and off the field.
If these players want a future at Liverpool, they must apply themselves much like Henderson did. I'm all for second chances. Winning requires a ruthless streak both on and off the field.
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