Well now I'm convinced.
Adam Lallana
- Thread starter King Binny
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Well now I'm convinced.
Yeah he should have been.
Oopps! Corrected just for you Fabs.
And the two resounding successes came from overseas. Just sayin.
Well yeah, Masher the Argie aswell.
That Aquilani for £20 mill is a right sickener. I thought he was going to be mint.
Don't often disagree with you, mate, but I'm going to have to this time.
First para: yes, with respect it *is* the job of any poster coming on here saying "there are bound to be better deals out there" to be specific. Otherwise it's just not a serious statement but nothing more than a hunch, thrown in to add a semblance of justification to a shaky argument.
Second para: it's not a matter of paying a premium just because we can. It's a matter of doing so - within reasonable limits of course - because we are now in the market for a superior class of player to take this club on to the next level and because, in at least some cases, refusing to do so would be a very false economy indeed.
... on loan. His fee would have been far much more than the £12 million we eventually paid. I do agree though that Rodgers's record in the transfer market doesn't look sharp.
JJ, the first statement is true because the evidence is there with clubs - Lovren (£8m), Miralles (£6m), Coutinho (£6m), it's easy to say "name some players then", of course there are viable options out there, there's a rich industry out there of players from all walks of life, all cultures and in different markets, who are there to be unearthed. Look at the talent Arsenal were coming up with upto a few years ago, look at Chelsea's reserve side, look at the gems plying their trades at less glamorous clubs. So no, it's not our job to say who, it's a given there is talent out there if you look hard enough, otherwise (as has been asked many times), what the point of our scouting network?
As for paying a premium, of course if we identify a talent (like a Torres or Suarez), then we should go the extra yard. I'm not saying we shouldn't be ambitious, I'm saying we should, but we shouldn't allow ourselves to be dictated to by a false market either.
About the second para.we're agreed, as usual.
Let's agree to differ about the first. I can't agree it's a given that we could automatically do better over every single deal - sometimes that'll apply, but sometimes it won't, and I'd assume our scouting network will already have been involved in either case.
Let's agree to differ about the first. I can't agree it's a given that we could automatically do better over every single deal - sometimes that'll apply, but sometimes it won't, and I'd assume our scouting network will already have been involved in either case.
Yeah I agree, to a degree. Obviously there's more risk with your Aspas' and Alberto's, you're paying a nominal fee because the chances are they're not quite good enough. I understand that. Like I said, I just don't want to see us spending over a players worth, just because we can. We've been there before and it rarely ends well. I'm just saying that I hope we're not getting lazy and going for the obvious and paying a premium just because he's Premiership readied.
Look at some of our best players last season - Skrtel (£6m), Sterling (£600k-£5m), Gerrard (N/A), Sturridge (£12m), Coutinho (£6m). Obviously you can then argue the toss over Suarez and Henderson, but point remains, you don't have to spend massively to get the right players, there's a good blend there of low prices gems and mid-range premium players. We don't have to go overboard.
So we spent 175m, recouped about 90m, and ended up with a Torres, a Suarez, a Johnson and a Mascher to show for it.
Definately agree with that (BIB).
I have been around other forums where snobbery was blatent but haven't noticed it here in this thread or around the forum much at all but as you say i aint been here long, obviously theres a bit of a gang mentality at times but thats a common trait with forums.
Theres a lot of bad comparisons, weak arguments and missing the point in this thread, that can get tedious and grate on some people after a while, hopefully something happens with this soon for everyones sake.
I'm not quite in agreement that we're paying a premium for Lallana based on the fact he's English.
We're paying a premium because he's in his peak years, has just had a smashing season, is a regular, key 1st teamer, is tied to a long contract and is with a club in a top league who have no pressing need to sell him.
If we have identified him as an ideal player we want to improve us - we pay the premium.
Simple.
I'm also with JJ - it weakens the argument when you say he's over-priced, but then fail to produce alternatives that support the case.
There's a distinct possibility that he's no over-priced - that £20-£25m is the going rate for a player if his age & attributes with the conditions attached to his circumstances.
I also ask the question about alternatives, because I genuinely don't know - because I don't get much of an opportunity to watch other European leagues - he'll, I barely pay much attention to games other than Liverpool's.
We're paying a premium because he's in his peak years, has just had a smashing season, is a regular, key 1st teamer, is tied to a long contract and is with a club in a top league who have no pressing need to sell him.
If we have identified him as an ideal player we want to improve us - we pay the premium.
Simple.
I'm also with JJ - it weakens the argument when you say he's over-priced, but then fail to produce alternatives that support the case.
There's a distinct possibility that he's no over-priced - that £20-£25m is the going rate for a player if his age & attributes with the conditions attached to his circumstances.
I also ask the question about alternatives, because I genuinely don't know - because I don't get much of an opportunity to watch other European leagues - he'll, I barely pay much attention to games other than Liverpool's.
I think it's a bit of both Stevie (peak years AND being English). For arguments sake, Aspas had a great season at 26/27 on the back of playing in the lower leagues and working his way up, he cost about £7m. Similarly, Lallana has just had a couple of great seasons at Saints and is roughly the same age as Aspas was last season. Big difference in price though. I'm obviously not comparing their respective talents, because I think Adam is a far superior player, but we could have paid premium for Aspas (more than we did anyway), because he was peak age and playing the football of his career.
Yeah, hopefully it's sorted soon and it doesn't become our annual drawn out saga that either leaves us looking embarrassed and empty-handed, or forking out £30m for a player who ideally should cost about half that.
wow - that list should be engraved in BR's mind. Exceptions aside, that list says don't pay more than 15m for British talent. Carroll is not on that list too.
I thought it was that he didn't want him on loan
Should you pay a premium for a player in his peak years? I think that's far from obvious.
On the plus side you get the best of a player immediately, and so insofar as immediate performance is preferable to delayed performance, a premium should be applied. On the negative side you get fewer (perhaps as few as half) years of service in total, and therefore a discount should be applied.
It's impossible to say whether the net effect should be a premium or a discount without considering many other factors.
On the plus side you get the best of a player immediately, and so insofar as immediate performance is preferable to delayed performance, a premium should be applied. On the negative side you get fewer (perhaps as few as half) years of service in total, and therefore a discount should be applied.
It's impossible to say whether the net effect should be a premium or a discount without considering many other factors.
Or will it speed up his transfer towards Spurs?
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