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Adam Lallana

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I bet most of you bang on about how we should 'find the extra couple of million to get him' when we're linked with some foreign sounding cunt that you've seen a YouTube video of & read a few reports written by journalists who saw the same youtube video & threw a few Wikipedia facts in the mix.


I know that line of argument is a big crowd pleaser amongst some people on this site but I find it to be one the more irritating things here.

I don't want to come across as too harsh but it is a low blow shitty argument that is designed to belittle and frustrate posters that name "fancy dan foreigners". Sure there are the err less well versed elements on the site that are drawn to the latest big name but there are more than a few posters on here that watch a lot of football on the continent and know their shit (I'm not referring to me). They are then almost forced to wade in and have to defend themselves. It might not necessarily be directed at them but it feels that way nonetheless because it's a scattergun attack.

I just think you can construct an argument in favour of Premiership based player X without having to insult peoples intelligence first.

And it's worth pointing out that on balance the fancy foreign guys people wanna spend a few million extra on do turn out to be good whereas the steady Prem proven options have been frustrating and miserable experiences.
 
There's a danger that we'll pay an exorbitant amount to get Lallana now in order to avoid being asked to pay an exorbitant amount for him after the World Cup. If he has a reasonably good World Cup, that might justify asking £20m for him. I'm not sure we'll be saving anything if this nonsense continues.
 
Obviously, but I just used him as an example. Paying £40 million for a 20 year old is a better investment than 25 million or whatever for a 26 year old.

And obviously there is zero risk with paying £40 million for a 20 year old ...... oh wait. That is an inane idea and far far worse than paying £22 million (or whatever the final figure in that ballpark is going to be) for a 26 year old Lallana, who is only 26 (just by a few days) FFS. You make it sound like he is knocking on the door to retirement whereas the reality is 26-30 yrs old is actually when most players hit their prime.
 
if i went to South America with 25m what could i get ? (football wise )

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...... but there are more than a few posters on here that watch a lot of football on the continent and know their shit (I'm not referring to me).

And it's worth pointing out that on balance the fancy foreign guys people wanna spend a few million extra on do turn out to be good whereas the steady Prem proven options have been frustrating and miserable experiences.

re. 1st paragraph. No, I don't think there are 'more than a few' .... there are a few, you could probably count them on two hands, a few who regularly watch other leagues and, just as everyone on here watches a lot of PL, so there are disparate opinions and it doesn't make them right just because they watch a lot of one league or another. Others just seem to name drop without actually knowing much about the players except they look great on FM/FIFA/Youtube or have seen their names mentioned in other articles written by people who also have no idea but it fills column inches each week. So I think FFF is right to call attention to this. Many admit they have not even watched Lallana regularly !

Re. Buying overseas. This is an old story. Spending a few extra million does not always turn out any better or worse than buying 'premiership proven' British-based players and not every Prem proven option has been a 'frustrating and miserable' experience'. There is just as long a list of failures, of even proven players, as there have been successes. Fact is in both cases (Overseas or Home) there is as much chance of a player failing as there is succeeding. However you don't stop buying British because of a fear of them failing and likewise you shouldn't always be looking overseas because they come cheaper.

It is very often the case, on here especially I might add, that an overseas player usually has more allure than those that are home-based. The list of players named - that subsequently turn out to be failures when they move elsewhere and inspire threads along the lines of 'Whatever happened to ....' is pretty long. Every Summer we get a huge list of overseas players named on 6CM but few ever turn out to be as amazing as the poster would have us believe.

If we want cheaper then Pesam can point us in the right direction I'm sure. We ignore young British talent because a 20 year old playing for Sevilla's B team must be better than Fred Jones in Rotherham's first team. Goes without saying.

However I agree with FFF - this Summer must not and can not be about value-for-money, it must be about the right players. IMO Lallana is one of those players. I'm sure LFC would not go above £25 million and he probably won't cost that much, but even at that price, even if it is above market, if Rodgers wants him then he is right man for the job. IMHO BR has earned the right to dictate which players he wants.
 
He's better than Allen & Coutinho.

He'd be going some to be better than Henderson but considering he covers just as much ground & contributes more goals & assists in the Southampton side I'd say he'll be on par at least.

The proof will, as always with transfers, be in the pudding, but I suspect whatever figure we end up paying will be well worth it next season.


Is correct.
 
I know that line of argument is a big crowd pleaser amongst some people on this site but I find it to be one the more irritating things here.

I don't want to come across as too harsh but it is a low blow shitty argument that is designed to belittle and frustrate posters that name "fancy dan foreigners". Sure there are the err less well versed elements on the site that are drawn to the latest big name but there are more than a few posters on here that watch a lot of football on the continent and know their shit (I'm not referring to me). They are then almost forced to wade in and have to defend themselves. It might not necessarily be directed at them but it feels that way nonetheless because it's a scattergun attack.

I just think you can construct an argument in favour of Premiership based player X without having to insult peoples intelligence first.

And it's worth pointing out that on balance the fancy foreign guys people wanna spend a few million extra on do turn out to be good whereas the steady Prem proven options have been frustrating and miserable experiences.


Great post.
 
re. 1st paragraph. No, I don't think there are 'more than a few' .... there are a few, you could probably count them on two hands, a few who regularly watch other leagues and, just as everyone on here watches a lot of PL, so there are disparate opinions and it doesn't make them right just because they watch a lot of one league or another. Others just seem to name drop without actually knowing much about the players except they look great on FM/FIFA/Youtube or have seen their names mentioned in other articles written by people who also have no idea but it fills column inches each week. So I think FFF is right to call attention to this. Many admit they have not even watched Lallana regularly !

Re. Buying overseas. This is an old story. Spending a few extra million does not always turn out any better or worse than buying 'premiership proven' British-based players and not every Prem proven option has been a 'frustrating and miserable' experience'. There is just as long a list of failures, of even proven players, as there have been successes. Fact is in both cases (Overseas or Home) there is as much chance of a player failing as there is succeeding. However you don't stop buying British because of a fear of them failing and likewise you shouldn't always be looking overseas because they come cheaper.

It is very often the case, on here especially I might add, that an overseas player usually has more allure than those that are home-based. The list of players named - that subsequently turn out to be failures when they move elsewhere and inspire threads along the lines of 'Whatever happened to ....' is pretty long. Every Summer we get a huge list of overseas players named on 6CM but few ever turn out to be as amazing as the poster would have us believe.

If we want cheaper then Pesam can point us in the right direction I'm sure. We ignore young British talent because a 20 year old playing for Sevilla's B team must be better than Fred Jones in Rotherham's first team. Goes without saying.

However I agree with FFF - this Summer must not and can not be about value-for-money, it must be about the right players. IMO Lallana is one of those players. I'm sure LFC would not go above £25 million and he probably won't cost that much, but even at that price, even if it is above market, if Rodgers wants him then he is right man for the job. IMHO BR has earned the right to dictate which players he wants.


Has he? I've yet to see much evidence that he's got much ability in the transfer market at all. His targets and signings when he first arrived (and was most obviously calling the shots) were some of the most dismal I can remember as a fan.
 
Has he? I've yet to see much evidence that he's got much ability in the transfer market at all. His targets and signings when he first arrived (and was most obviously calling the shots) were some of the most dismal I can remember as a fan.

He has since moulded the team into a powerful force. He knows the type of players he needs to take us forward that next step (and personally I totally agree with his comments that players should be of first team quality) and we should assume that there are more people behind the scenes involved in the process to provide checks and balances. If he believes Player A or Player B is a good fit then my personal opinion is he has indeed earned the right to go after that player. What system (or whom) would you prefer to Rodgers ?
 
He has since moulded the team into a powerful force. He knows the type of players he needs to take us forward that next step (and personally I totally agree with his comments that players should be of first team quality) and we should assume that there are more people behind the scenes involved in the process to provide checks and balances. If he believes Player A or Player B is a good fit then my personal opinion is he has indeed earned the right to go after that player. What system (or whom) would you prefer to Rodgers ?


I just don't think he's earned that right. He's proved he's an exceptional coach, but I'm not remotely convinced he's good at picking out the right players or even targeting the most pressing areas of the team.

I would prefer other people to do the targeting of players and for Rodgers to hold a veto if he strongly disagrees. At least for now.
 
He has since moulded the team into a powerful force. He knows the type of players he needs to take us forward that next step (and personally I totally agree with his comments that players should be of first team quality) and we should assume that there are more people behind the scenes involved in the process to provide checks and balances. If he believes Player A or Player B is a good fit then my personal opinion is he has indeed earned the right to go after that player. What system (or whom) would you prefer to Rodgers ?

I'm with Peter on this. BR has done an incredible job despite a mixed transfer record. Coutinho and Studge standout as excellent. Jury is prob still out on Illori, Ming, allen and Sakho (although they have time and potential on their side). Aspas, alberto, borini, assman are flops or not worth the money.
 
Sounds about right. Not sure where Peter got 25M from.


I definitely read that somewhere yesterday. I can't remember where though.

I still think there would be clearly better players available for that price on the European market.
 
if sanchez is rumoured to cost 25m, a player who is playing at top level for 2-3 years now and who has proved himself enough to cost so much. Now speaking about Lallana, if we pay anything more than 20m, it doesnt mean it is bad business , it is just a risky one. So here BR has to decide whether he sees something in Lallana, which is worth taking the risk of those few extra millions
 
So, have we got a list of AM's in their prime that are available and would cost less than £20m?
 
I know that line of argument is a big crowd pleaser amongst some people on this site but I find it to be one the more irritating things here.



I don't want to come across as too harsh but it is a low blow shitty argument that is designed to belittle and frustrate posters that name "fancy dan foreigners". Sure there are the err less well versed elements on the site that are drawn to the latest big name but there are more than a few posters on here that watch a lot of football on the continent and know their shit (I'm not referring to me). They are then almost forced to wade in and have to defend themselves. It might not necessarily be directed at them but it feels that way nonetheless because it's a scattergun attack.



I just think you can construct an argument in favour of Premiership based player X without having to insult peoples intelligence first.



And it's worth pointing out that on balance the fancy foreign guys people wanna spend a few million extra on do turn out to be good whereas the steady Prem proven options have been frustrating and miserable experiences.



FFF and Frogfish are bang on with what they say.

As you may have noticed im one of those people you mention, its funny that you mention insulting peoples intelligence when the majority of these posters with their lists and non arguments are doing exactly that to everyone who reads what they post, these posters are just winging it a lot of the time and were supposed to just swallow it and not question them/call them out?

Its nothing to do with wanting to dish out a low blow or designed to belittle at all, any poster can do that to another poster whenever they want regardless of the subject.
 
So, have we got a list of AM's in their prime that are available and would cost less than £20m?

Frankly, I wonder where those values I see from some posters come from and - even if they're accurate - why they think those values will stay that way. If I remember correctly, Mkhitaryan and Willian eventually moved for much higher prices than when the initial estimated values or our rumoured bid values.

Anyway, here's my list:

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I just don't think he's earned that right. He's proved he's an exceptional coach, but I'm not remotely convinced he's good at picking out the right players or even targeting the most pressing areas of the team.

I would prefer other people to do the targeting of players and for Rodgers to hold a veto if he strongly disagrees. At least for now.


I'm with Peter on this. BR has done an incredible job despite a mixed transfer record. Coutinho and Studge standout as excellent. Jury is prob still out on Illori, Ming, allen and Sakho (although they have time and potential on their side). Aspas, alberto, borini, assman are flops or not worth the money.


To be quite honest there is absolutely no point in going over Rodger' transfer record because opinions vary on the players' performances to date with IMO only Aspas and Assiadi as failures and a less than 25% failure rate is pretty damn good for PL managers ! Ilori, Alberto and Borini were quite obviously Moneyball signings with the hallmarks of FSG stamped all over them, so I'm not sure how much involvement Rodgers had in those transfers (certainly I very much doubt that Rodgers alone made the decisions) and whether they were good buys or not remains to be seen. All of the other buys are a success to varying degrees, some spectacular.

We are now into a different ballpark. You can probably add 10m to the quality of the players for the first team that we are looking at now compared to a season or so ago. This means we can target players just about to enter their prime years not just those full of potential. Whether we like it or not I'm pretty sure that this window will be far more of a 'Rodgers' window with possibly a couple more FSG Moneyball transfers thrown in (Emre Can fits that bill).
 
To be quite honest there is absolutely no point in going over Rodger' transfer record because opinions vary on the players' performances to date with IMO only Aspas and Assiadi as failures and a less than 25% failure rate is pretty damn good for PL managers ! Ilori, Alberto and Borini were quite obviously Moneyball signings with the hallmarks of FSG stamped all over them, so I'm not sure how much involvement Rodgers had in those transfers (certainly I very much doubt that Rodgers alone made the decisions) and whether they were good buys or not remains to be seen. All of the other buys are a success to varying degrees, some spectacular.

We are now into a different ballpark. You can probably add 10m to the quality of the players for the first team that we are looking at now compared to a season or so ago. This means we can target players just about to enter their prime years not just those full of potential. Whether we like it or not I'm pretty sure that this window will be far more of a 'Rodgers' window with possibly a couple more FSG Moneyball transfers thrown in (Emre Can fits that bill).


IMO all the signings from the first summer were Rodgers', with the exception of Assaidi, who I think was probably forced upon him. I think it was only after that that the transfer committee was formed and he lost some of that initial power. Whether it was in effect before the Sturridge and Coutinho signings I'm not sure, but I think it's plausible that it wasn't. I'm damn sure things had changed by last summer though: the types of signings we were going after changed markedly. So I make the players BR has signed and targeted with us as the following:

Borini
Allen
Sigurdsson
Dempsey
Ashley Williams
Walcott
Coutinho
Sturridge

IMO the only one of those that shows any kind of inspiration is Coutinho. Sturridge and Walcott were both good players who'd slightly under-achieved at big clubs and ones you could see the sense in gambling on. But they were well-known PL players and if you're relying on that level of scouting to pick up value then you'll soon run out of luck, because there simply aren't many cheap and excellent players in major leagues hidden right in plain view. To some extent we got lucky with Sturridge, in that it's not a signing you could readily replicate: an outlier, like GH nabbing Hyypia all those years ago.

Borini IMO is not good enough and was a bad call, made worse by the reliance on BR's previous knowledge of him, which firstly calls into question his ability to judge whether a player can step up to the right level, and also reveals a weakness for having to rely on old players, which I'm not keen on because it suggests a lack of knowledge of the market.

Allen was overpriced and IMO not a priority, and is still not obviously fitting into our first team. Again with the previous connection. Not a failure, but hardly a great success either.

Sigurdsson another he'd worked with previously, and again highly questionable whether he's good enough.

Dempsey and Williams surely need no further comment.


It's a relatively small sample, especially considering his last 2 signings/targets were fantastic successes, so who knows whether a lot of that was a result of him learning and having more time to build contacts etc.

But as of now, and based on what I consider the relevant examples, it's quite a mediocre record.
 
FFF and Frogfish are bang on with what they say.

As you may have noticed im one of those people you mention, its funny that you mention insulting peoples intelligence when the majority of these posters with their lists and non arguments are doing exactly that to everyone who reads what they post, these posters are just winging it a lot of the time and were supposed to just swallow it and not question them/call them out?

Its nothing to do with wanting to dish out a low blow or designed to belittle at all, any poster can do that to another poster whenever they want regardless of the subject.

As I said in my post, I'm not disputing that there are posters who are "winging it". Call them out to your hearts content. Don't create an atmosphere where anyone suggesting foreign alternatives is tarred with the same brush.
 
As I said in my post, I'm not disputing that there are posters who are "winging it". Call them out to your hearts content. Don't create an atmosphere where anyone suggesting foreign alternatives is tarred with the same brush.

What an odd thing to say, that isn't an issue at all.
 
What an odd thing to say, that isn't an issue at all.

Of course it is. Maybe you've not been around here long enough but there's definitely a snobbery. Bollocks like the above post about being able to name the viable options outside the UK market on "one hand" typify it. Of course there are options out there. Look at teams like Everton, Arsenal or even Southampton. Teams that scout and identify players all the time. The most obvious and frustrating answer on here seems to be "name them!". It's not our job to.

Just to reiterate, I like and rate Lallana, but the fee being quoted is inflated and unjustifiable. I don't buy into this shit that we "have" to pay a premium, just because we can.
 
*Just for a bit of fun*

English players signed by Premier league clubs for 17-26 million pounds:

Wright-Phillips £21mil
J Lescott £22mil
J Milner £26mil
D Bent £24mil
S Downing £20mil
G Johnson £18mil
O Hargreaves £17mil
M Carrick £18.6mil
 
Brendan didn't want sturridge according to journalists, I'm not completely sold on his transfer ability, I'm about 50 50 on it
 
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