Fabinho leaving?

[Fabio]

But do we actually have the same type expectations on Hendo as we do with other players?

Like seriously, I'm asking?

We expect henderson to maintain the level he's shown for us thus far. If he doesn't, then we get rid. Thats not to say hendersons ceiling was as high as fabinhos; not at all. Just we know what we're getting.

Lets give random numbers to explain the shift in opinion between the 2.

Henderson at his peak was probably a 7 at his best for us, out of 10. He maintained that level until this season when he dropped to a 5 .
Fabinho has been an 8, maybe even a 9 during his stay with us. He was the perfect destroyer for our system. This season, he dropped to a 4. He was fucking awful. Could barely trap a football, let alone pass one.

The drop off from fabinho was much more striking than the drop off from henderson. It's easier to imagine henderson pulling back to a 6 after a summer off, than fabinho pulling back to an 8.

If our system requires an 8 or 9 as the destroyer, then fabinho had to be replaced. We could muddle our way through with a 6 at RCM, as we had others who could come in

 

[Modo]

Wow, somebody switched Modo back onto boring Hendo obsession mode.

Hahaha, I'll stop I promise.

 

[Markeh]

Hahaha, I'll stop I promise.

when

 

[Modo]

when

Now. I'm just being cordial and replying

 

[Frogfish]

The only comment i can say to this, is Fabs was always exemplary at reading the game, but still relied on athleticism to get him out of some situations. Last season he wasn't. Last season Klopp publicly bollocked him on the pitch numerous times. Clearly something was untoward, and the crowd picked up on that too.

He was a fucking ghastly footballer last year, for no discernible reason. Add in he's getting closer to 30, when ability does tend to start to decline (and i don't want to hear any bollocks about "but oh modern training techniques"), it made sense that he would be first on the chopping block for replacement (as we'd already been linked to tchoumeni and caicedo the year before).

I think after....28(?), the chances of a resurgence in form become lower and lower. All you can hope is maintaining form. Like Hendo up until last season was consistent. Not great, but not bad. This season he was shite, and we needed to get a replacement; but we already had a few options in harvs/jones/stefan etc. Fabs we had fucking no one

You DIDN'T just mention athleticism in the same breath as Fabs did you?!

 

[rurikbird]

You DIDN'T just mention athleticism in the same breath as Fabs did you?!

Of course Fabs was plenty strong and athletic – how else do you think he was winning like 70% of his duels at his peak? His weakness was always mobility; if you could go around his zone you're fine, but no one could go through him when he was good. You have to be an amazing athlete to make beating other athletes look routine. I do however think there was something about Fabs' mentality that prevented him from joining the ranks of absolute top-class defenders/DMs in the game. Look at the likes of Thiago Silva, Fernandinho, Thiago Motta, Casemiro, Dani Alves, Marcelo etc – just to name some Brazilians who have lasted at the top level well into their 30's. Perhaps the club thought we had a similar caliber player and character in Fabinho when they gave him that big contract and planned to build the side around him. Instead, as soon as his body started declining he kind of gave up.

So how do you assess his career as a whole? For 3 and a half years he was one of the best DMs in the world; he was solid, but arguably not world-class in Monaco (I was watching quite a few of their games in his last season there), didn't make it at Real Madrid early in his career, didn't become a key player for the national team. If you think about it, only Klopp truly "unlocked" him, but even he was powerless to turn his last season around and I'm guessing at some point there was a breakdown of trust, which is why we so easily agreed to sell him, despite having no replacement lined up. So yeah, it was not just "one random bad season" – the way things ended puts his career into perspective and I honestly don't think in 10-20 years many people will place him in the discussion of the best midfielders of 2010-20's or best ever Liverpool midfielders. And as much as @Modo will probably hate me for saying this, even though Fabs was clearly better at his peak, I think at the end of the day Hendo will be remembered as a much more era-defining player for us, because he was key for our first Premier League title race under Rodgers as well as everything that came (so far) under Klopp.