Whoever did that is very witty.
Poll Would you sell Lucas?
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Whoever did that is very witty.
Good ole Jean-Michel, he did more spying than Paul Revere.
We already have his replacement, its Allen. If you mean a serious defensive mid then we need one of those regardless of whether or not we sell Lucas
I wouldn't sell at this stage. We'd be stripping the squad threadbare. Lets see how he gets on with a full preseason and if he's still under performing by Jan, we could sell him then. He'd probably be an attractive signing for some teams who are still in Europe given that he won't be cup tied.
Agree with that. If he recovers his pre-injury form, that's our defensive shield reinstated, right there. Remember how awesome he was, how singlehandedly he gave Kenny's midfield shape and steel (and remember how the midfield fell into shambles after he got injured). If he doesn't, however, 10 mil is a good price for the current level Lucas. Can see Rafa targeting him, the rumours have started after all. Even in his current less-than-awesome form he'd be a good fit for the slower Italian league.
The current Lucas and Gerrard doesn't quite well for me as a pairing. Lucas is the deep lying defensive midfielder, and while he recycles the ball well enough, he's not quite at Gerrard's level when it comes to playmaking. And without his pre-injury form, he doesn't provide the same steel and presence as he did before.
Would like to us emulate a Javi Martinez and Bastian Schweinsteiger style pairing, which I think is more suited for our league, where Gerrard plays the Schweinsteiger deep lying playmaking role, and is still physical enough to handle himself in a midfield battle. Someone as affordable as Diame can play Martinez's role, the box-to-box midfielder who destroys the opposition as much as he creates chances and chips in with goals.
Interesting post, but what you say about Lucas goes off the rails IMO. He played well enough under Kenny, but for my money you seriously overstate how well. Lucas was all we had to do the DM job, and anybody of half-decent standard was always going to look better than nobody in that (or any other) role. As for the current situation: "not quite at Gerrard's level when it comes to playmaking"? Not quite on Gerrard's planet, more like.
You make some good points in your final para.though. Diame was linked with us at one stage before he went to W.Ham and I was a bit surprised by the level of abuse the idea got on here. Another possibility would be Alonso, if we could get him back, playing the deeper role and Gerrard playing further forward, though not "box to box" as such (I don't see that as necessary anyway if there's a dedicated DM in the side).
You make some good points in your final para.though. Diame was linked with us at one stage before he went to W.Ham and I was a bit surprised by the level of abuse the idea got on here. Another possibility would be Alonso, if we could get him back, playing the deeper role and Gerrard playing further forward, though not "box to box" as such (I don't see that as necessary anyway if there's a dedicated DM in the side).
Lucas was simply magnificent in his pre-injury pomp. Recall the Man City and Chelsea games where he bossed the likes of Yaya out of the game. Before his long-term layoff, he recycled and retain possession well while providing a mean physical shield for the defense. He was on top of his game then, either tackling crisply or stealing the ball with his excellent reading of the game. Now, he has lapsed and is guilty of the clumsy fouls he tends to give away near the penalty box. We can only hope a full pre-season's prep can bring back his fitness and form.
Don't think the present Alonso and Gerrard can work together as a midfield, not at this late stage of their playing careers. Sure, you'd get plenty of playmaking, but not enough of legs and stamina to do the pressing required of Rodger's teams, and also of successful modern teams, I'd argue. Look at the Bayern and Dormund sides which blew the Spanish teams out of the water, both relied on high pressing and energetic displays, coupled with strong technical and tactical play. With Alonso and Gerrard in the same side, the defensive burden falls too much on the third midfielder or even the #10 - we'd get overrun IMO.
Let's agree to differ on that too. Alonso's defensive play never got the credit it deserved when he was with us, and based on Stevie's form in the latter part of last season I don't think his "legs" have gone - that strikes me as more of a penny-in-the-slot assumption than anything else. They couldn't do it all between them, but then they wouldn't have to.
Well this is it, in a defensive sense I don't think it ever worked, not that either shirked their responsibilities, but they rarely cut it as a central midfield "two", it was only when Gerrard moved into the hole position behind Torres and we started trying play a three man central midfield with a more natural DM in there that it became more consistent. I remember them going to Highbury as a pairing and getting completely overran, I also remember the same happening against Robbie Savage and Tugay.
I thought Lucas looked very impressive before his injury. Missing pre season and getting injured again at the start of last term is hardly ideal in terms of getting back to his best form therefore I think he deserves the chance to show what he can do in 2013/14 after this summer's preparation.
I think Defensive mids tend to get stick because of the nature of the position. Lucas is one of the best in the League when you analyse the contributions. I think he needs cover, ironically enough we cover in the squad, but we haven't used him as one - Steven Gerrard would be magnificent there and could play another 5 years in that position.
Not sure about that. IMO giving Stevie more defensive responsibilities could work only if he's part of the kind of duo that others were just describing above, who could swap around as needed. He has the skill and power to play any position on the field, but I'm not convinced that even the more mature Stevie we've got now would have the discipline needed to hold a deeper position consistently.
It's so weird. It's not rocket science. A player gets told to never go beyond the centre circle inside the opponents half, or to never go beyond a certain attacker you're facing. How hard can that be to follow?
And with the talent and football intelligence of someone like Gerrard, too.
Are footballers THAT thick? Is Lucas where he is today because he has a normal brain, or maybe half a brain, considering his stupid tendency to jump into anyone running in his direction and either giving a foul away or having that player skip past him.
Are DMs hard to come by because 99%of talented footballers are thick?
Anyone could be a DM, but most players have some ambition so won't be one.
When you see two decent full backs like Barry and Neville lengthen their career by moving to DM you must begin to wonder whether any talent at all is required to play the role. The role doesn't exist in better teams, which is a clue to the answer.
When you see two decent full backs like Barry and Neville lengthen their career by moving to DM you must begin to wonder whether any talent at all is required to play the role. The role doesn't exist in better teams, which is a clue to the answer.
Don't agree at all with your final sentence.
Don't watch too much football outside of Liverpool games but
Bayern Munich has Luiz Gustavo (I think) and Schweinsteiger,
Barca has Sergio Busquets,
Barca also has Mascherano,
Real has Alonso,
Real also has Khedira,
Milan has De Jong,
City has Toure,
PSG has Matuidi,
Juventus has Vidal,
We had Hamann when we won the CL 2005,
We had Mascherano when we got to the CL final 2007,
Arteta plays that role for Arse,
Dortmund has Gundogan (or was it the other fella?)
etc, etc, etc.
It's Bender, not Gundogan .
Lucas was brilliant before his injury and was like a totally different player to what had gone before.
If he returns to that form, we have a top top player. However, if he can't and is at the general level he has played at, he's not good enough.
We deffo won't sell him now as we have just offered him a new contract.
If he returns to that form, we have a top top player. However, if he can't and is at the general level he has played at, he's not good enough.
We deffo won't sell him now as we have just offered him a new contract.
Ah, yes. Thanks.
I wonder if he is enjoying his football.
Most of them aren't simply DMs. They've got more to their game
But they're classed as defensive midfielders/libero, where they're expected to perform a specific role. The question isn't whether they have the quality to offer even more. It's a case of 'The role doesn't exist in better teams, which is a clue to the answer.' being wrong, as almost all top sides these days have a midfielder or two sitting in front of the centre backs predominently performing their defensive role as midfielders.
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