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WORLD CUP 2010 Discussion thread

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[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=37914.msg1063331#msg1063331 date=1267575990]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37914.msg1063311#msg1063311 date=1267571099]
Brazil looked very good tonight.
With Adriano, Pato, Ronaldinho, Fabiano, Hulk, Grafite, Nilmar, Robinho, Kaka they have PLENTY of options up front.
If they gel whos gonna stop that lot scoring?
[/quote]

Ireland.
[/quote]Err what?
 
I find it amazing that Robert Green is even considered for the squad let alone potentially no.1 goalie for the tournament.

The 3 should be James, Hart and Robinson with the first choice being Hart or James.
 
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=37914.msg1063973#msg1063973 date=1267694249]
I find it amazing that Robert Green is even considered for the squad let alone potentially no.1 goalie for the tournament.

The 3 should be James, Hart and Robinson with the first choice being Hart or James.
[/quote]Yeah. Hart should be first choice. He's been fucking brilliant this year.
I always thought it would be Foster who made it, but Hart looks a class apart.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37914.msg1063976#msg1063976 date=1267694889]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=37914.msg1063973#msg1063973 date=1267694249]
I find it amazing that Robert Green is even considered for the squad let alone potentially no.1 goalie for the tournament.

The 3 should be James, Hart and Robinson with the first choice being Hart or James.
[/quote]Yeah. Hart should be first choice. He's been fucking brilliant this year.
I always thought it would be Foster who made it, but Hart looks a class apart.
[/quote]

Considering the current options, Hart should be No. 1 now and could be No.1 for the next 10 years. This has as much to do with his ability as it does with the dearth of other English goalkeeping talent. That Kirkland, Carson, Green and Foster have been considered in recent times shows how bad the current crop of English goalies are.
 
I think you are being a little harsh on Green, Pesam. I think he is a better keeper than Carson, Foster & Kirkland. I also think he would be a better bet than James who is just too erratic. Hart does look a class apart this season though.
 
Agreed. McLeish may have done the deal of the season snaffling him for Birmingham, albeit on loan (for now at least).
 
Well Shay Given is on a tasty contract and will take some shifting at City. It might just be one of those things that Hart needs to move on to play regular football, unless he is a patient lad and will wait 5/6/7 years, which is highly unlikely consider his rep is so high.

England's 'keepers at the WC should be Green, Hart, James.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37914.msg1063976#msg1063976 date=1267694889]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=37914.msg1063973#msg1063973 date=1267694249]
I find it amazing that Robert Green is even considered for the squad let alone potentially no.1 goalie for the tournament.

The 3 should be James, Hart and Robinson with the first choice being Hart or James.
[/quote]Yeah. Hart should be first choice. He's been fucking brilliant this year.
I always thought it would be Foster who made it, but Hart looks a class apart.
[/quote]

Hart's never started a game for England boys.

There's not a fucking hope in hell he's going to start in South Africa.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37914.msg1064227#msg1064227 date=1267742328]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37914.msg1063976#msg1063976 date=1267694889]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=37914.msg1063973#msg1063973 date=1267694249]
I find it amazing that Robert Green is even considered for the squad let alone potentially no.1 goalie for the tournament.

The 3 should be James, Hart and Robinson with the first choice being Hart or James.
[/quote]Yeah. Hart should be first choice. He's been fucking brilliant this year.
I always thought it would be Foster who made it, but Hart looks a class apart.
[/quote]

Hart's never started a game for England boys.

There's not a fucking hope in hell he's going to start in South Africa.
[/quote]Nobody said he will Ryan. Just that he IS our best keeper currently.
Plus Rob Green looks like a fucking binman.
 
Nice article by Paul Hayward...

For England, Spain and Brazil are the Scylla and Charybdis of this World Cup. To believe the sick man of Europe can finally put 1966 in a time capsule you have to believe the improvements wrought by Fabio Capello are sufficient to overcome the game's top two superpowers.

Last week England again reversed Sven-Goran Eriksson's mantra of first half good, second half not so good, to beat the best team in Africa. That just leaves the top sides in Europe and South America, who have inflicted hurt on Capello's men in friendly matches. Spain were 2-0 winners in February last year and Brazil prevailed 1-0 in Doha in November, a game that prompted pundits to say England's back-up boys were not good enough, in contrast to Wednesday's 3-1 victory over Egypt, after which everyone claimed the bench was bursting with match-winning talent.

We are close to the stage in World Cup build-ups where an amnesiac population start hectoring the players and coach to say yes, strike me dead if England don't go there and win it this time. Eriksson started out not wanting to go along with this premature triumphalism but succumbed in the end, lobbing the punters the sardine they wanted: "I think we will win it, of course."

Just as assessments of individual talent are weakened by an unwillingness to consider the quality of the opposition – Tommy Hotshot was a one-man tornado against Stoke but anonymous against Barcelona, strangely – so any appraisal of England's prospects in South Africa must start with an acknowledgment of how hard Spain and Brazil will be to shift.

Nor is it only those two fine teams but the five others currently ranked higher than Capello's: Holland, Italy (the world champions), Germany, Portugal and France. Not forgetting Argentina, who are managed by the self-detonating Diego Maradona but beat Germany in Munich in midweek. Spain and Brazil, though, are the Kauto Star of this summer's tournament. Realistically England jump off in the Gold Cup knowing there's nothing in the form book to say they should beat silky Spain or a Brazil XI who have dumped big-name narcissism in favour of industry and a lethal counterattacking style.

Spain's 2-0 win over France last week was their first on Gallic soil since 1968 and extended an already astounding run to 42 wins in 45 outings. Their only defeat in that time was to America at the Confederations Cup. Here our racing experts toss their trilbys. If the US can beat Spain, and England beat the US, who are in their World Cup qualifying group, then surely the form line says ...

No it doesn't. In Spain's starting line-up in Paris: Iker Casillas, Carles Puyol, Xabi Alonso, David Villa, Cesc Fábregas, Andrés Iniesta, David Silva. Villa scored his 36th international goal in 55 appearances. In nets Casillas collected his 102nd cap, Xavi Hernández, Pepe Reina, Fernando Torres and Marcos Senna warmed the bench before trotting on. Imagine having Casillas and Reina to choose from in goal. Capello, meanwhile, is sweating over whether David James should be replaced by Robert Green.

They say Brazil have "problems". But these seem entirely political, as they often are with the five-times World Cup winners. The dilettante Ronaldinho has woken up under Leonardo's management at Milan, so now Dunga is under pressure to restore the slimmed-down shimmy-star. The coach, though, has his core of humble patriots and his pattern of play, which is to absorb attacks with the help of two screening midfielders (Gilberto Silva and Felipe Melo), then dispatch overlapping full-backs on their merry way while Kaká probes in the No10 position and Luís Fabiano scores the goals at centre-forward.

England's strengths and weaknesses are a whole other seminar. They cannot be examined in isolation, though, because the road to the final runs through countries demonstrably better equipped to win this World Cup and because England display specific historical failings that Capello will need to cure if they are to play the same possession game as the nations who have won World Cups since 1966.

The bad news is that this requires a profound cultural shift, even if most of Capello's starting XI are Champions League regulars. Gary Neville, who has played at five international tournaments, and is interviewed on pages 10-11, confirmed this theory while discounting the argument that England could be sunk without a Gilberto or a Melo. Or an Owen Hargreaves.

"I've always found in the World Cup that we can burn ourselves out because we're playing every four days and we're all running round like mad men when we need people to control the ball," Neville said. "Carrick and Gerrard and Lampard and Barry – people who've played at clubs who control the tempo of the game – are a better bet than putting a destroyer in there."

Capello has accentuated England's virtues and concealed their flaws. His management will bestow on a sprinkling of world-class players their best hope since France 98 of putting 1966 in a box with 1066 and all that. But let's see them sail through the Strait of Messina.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37914.msg1063976#msg1063976 date=1267694889]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=37914.msg1063973#msg1063973 date=1267694249]
I find it amazing that Robert Green is even considered for the squad let alone potentially no.1 goalie for the tournament.

The 3 should be James, Hart and Robinson with the first choice being Hart or James.
[/quote]Yeah. Hart should be first choice. He's been fucking brilliant this year.
I always thought it would be Foster who made it, but Hart looks a class apart.
[/quote]

Point of order: Hart's been great ever since anyone started giving a shit about him

ie GYAC, Jamo's been injured (and mental, and erratic and 108), Green's fucking ordinary and Foster's shit aswell.

So let us handily cast a veil over the start of the season, when Hart was alternately average to fucking dreadful.
 
82 & 86 are the best WCs I remember.

Either Germany v France 82 or France v Brazil 86.

Anything with France or Brazil 82 & 86 was great.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37914.msg1066910#msg1066910 date=1268197394]
Was just gonna type France-Brazil 86 actually. Absolute fucking belter.
[/quote]Denmark v Uraguay 86
Holland v Argentina 98
Senegal v Uraguay 02.
Not including sentimental games like Northern Ireland v Spain, Ireland v Italy, England v Argentina etc.
Although I've got the 1966 final on DVD and it was a fucking great game tbf.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37914.msg1067431#msg1067431 date=1268273158]
Italy-Bulgaria, 94.

Baggio winning the game off his own boot. Great stuff.
[/quote]One of the greatest shames ever that he missed that Pen, because until that point he had strode across that tournament like a colossus. He was the Maradona of 94, yet he's remembered for the second worst pen of the tournament.
 
I just saw something terrible on tv. There's an advert for the official 'panini' trading card game for the tourney. And it looks from the advert like it's abandoned the old format and gone with the new of all the big named players and not ALL the players. How sad. How fucking tragic infact. Where's the fun in getting 10 different Kaka pictures? What about the pleasure of finally getting the Chinese left back.....it's really symptomatic of this fucking sky generation and it's made me feel right sad today.
 
So let us handily cast a veil over the start of the season, when Hart was alternately average to fucking dreadful.


[/quote]

Crock 'o' shit Bren, Hart has never been dreadful and has been good pretty much throughout the season, getting better as it goes on. I've been banging his drum since his Shrewsbury days and although I don't think he is yet in the same league as Reina, Casillas etc he is by a long way England's best current keeper.

Birmingham's defensive record compares favourably with all other teams in the league bar the top teams and in fact their record is very similar to the top teams and this is largely down to their 2 most important players Johnson and Hart.
 
Crock 'o' shit Bren, Hart has never been dreadful and has been good pretty much throughout the season, getting better as it goes on. I've been banging his drum since his Shrewsbury days and although I don't think he is yet in the same league as Reina, Casillas etc he is by a long way England's best current keeper.

Birmingham's defensive record compares favourably with all other teams in the league bar the top teams and in fact their record is very similar to the top teams and this is largely down to their 2 most important players Johnson and Hart.

He was nearly dropped at the start of the season after they lost 7 games out of the first dozen and he was wobbly as fuck.

Has improved hugely, as has the whole team.

and I hate Roger Johnson, he's a fucking bellend.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=37914.msg1067614#msg1067614 date=1268310762]
Crock 'o' shit Bren, Hart has never been dreadful and has been good pretty much throughout the season, getting better as it goes on. I've been banging his drum since his Shrewsbury days and although I don't think he is yet in the same league as Reina, Casillas etc he is by a long way England's best current keeper.

Birmingham's defensive record compares favourably with all other teams in the league bar the top teams and in fact their record is very similar to the top teams and this is largely down to their 2 most important players Johnson and Hart.

He was nearly dropped at the start of the season after they lost 7 games out of the first dozen and he was wobbly as fuck.

Has improved hugely, as has the whole team.

and I hate Roger Johnson, he's a fucking bellend.
[/quote]

He might be a bellend (I'm not aware of any bellend behaviour though) but he's an excellent centre back. I think most of Birminghams early season wobble was down to Johnson and Dann being new to the EPL so they had to learn quickly and also forge a partnership. Dann I think will eventually be found out to be sub-par for the EPL (although he's playing very well at the moment) but Johnson and Hart have very good Premier League careers ahead of them.
 
Recommendations for the England team;

James

Johnson Terry Ferdinand Cole

Carrick Barry

Gerrard Rooney Lampard

Crouch


I know he likes Heskey, but that team's better (if you're reading Fabio).
 
I don't see much point in playing Crouch if we're not going to play with any width.

Put Gerrard on the left of that and put Lennon/Walcott/SWP/Milner on the right.

Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney will naturally want to hog the central area.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=37914.msg1071389#msg1071389 date=1268841069]

Recommendations for the England team;

James

Johnson Terry Ferdinand Cole

Carrick Barry

Gerrard Rooney Lampard

Crouch


I know he likes Heskey, but that team's better (if you're reading Fabio).

[/quote]Which was the best England team in the past 30 years do you think?
82-
1 Clemence, Raymond N. 33 G 59 51GA Tottenham Hotspur FC -
2 Anderson, Vivian A. 25 RB 10 0 Nottingham Forest FC -
3 Brooking, Trevor D. 33 M 46 5 West Ham United FC 1 0 1 0 27 0 0
4 Butcher, Terence I. 23 CD 4 0 Ipswich Town FC 4 4 0 0 360 0 1C
5 Coppell, Stephen J. 26 M 36 6 Manchester United FC 4 4 0 0 360 0 0
6 Foster, Stephen B. 24 CD 2 0 Brighton & Hove Albion FC 1 1 0 0 90 0 0
7 Keegan, J. Kevin 31 M/F 62 21 Southampton FC 1 0 1 0 26 0 0
8 Francis, Trevor J. 28 F 27 6 Manchester City FC 5 5 0 1 436 2 0
9 Hoddle, Glenn 24 M 11 4 Tottenham Hotspur FC 2 1 1 0 135 0 0
10 McDermott, Terence 30 M 25 3 Liverpool FC -
11 Mariner, Paul 29 F 21 10 Ipswich Town FC 5 5 0 0 450 1 1C

86-
Shilton
Samson
Anderson
Butcher
Steven
Hoddle
Robson
Reid
Beardsley
Waddle
Lineker

90-
Shilton
Pearce
Walker
Butcher
Stevens
Robson
Gascoigne
Barnes
Waddle
Lineker
Beardsley

98-
Seaman
Pearce
Neville
Adams
Campbell
Batty
Scholes
Anderton
Beckham
Shearer
Sheringham

02-
Seaman
Mills
Ferdinand
Campbell
Cole
Beckham
Butt
Lampard
Scholes
Owen

06-
James
Neville
Ferdinand
Terry
Cole
Gerrard
Lampard
Scholes
Butt
Rooney
Owen


Cole
 
It's gonna be really strange seeing Lucas in the Brazil squad, and Danny Guthrie not in the England one.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37914.msg1072210#msg1072210 date=1268934623]
It's 1990 isn't it? Followed by 2006.
[/quote]

90 is defo the best.
 
I am really looking forward to the World Cup at this stage, and will hopefully enjoy watching football without the emotional investment and ensuing heartache that results from my regular footy viewing. 🙁
 
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