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Poll Who is Liverpools greatest ever player?

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[quote author=Pasim link=topic=43794.msg1260959#msg1260959 date=1295881761]
Kenny
Souness
Hansen
Gerrard
Barnes

I know it's a subjective matter but I'm amazed that Oncy can do a top 5 without Souness and Sunny can do one without Hansen - I would imagine these 2 would be 100% certainties in most people's top 5.
[/quote]

Hansen would be my number six. I just loved Jan Molby.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43794.msg1260958#msg1260958 date=1295881705]
He played about a third of that season if I'm not mistaken, bringing himself back about this time in the New Year for the run-in.

The point I'm making about when he stopped playing is that our success didn't then go on much longer. We never did replace him adequately as a player.[/quote]

We'll also be saying that in a few years,Jules.

It's still Kenny, but the gulf isnt so large.
 
[quote author=Pasim link=topic=43794.msg1260959#msg1260959 date=1295881761]
Kenny
Souness
Hansen
Gerrard
Barnes

I know it's a subjective matter but I'm amazed that Oncy can do a top 5 without Souness and Sunny can do one without Hansen - I would imagine these 2 would be 100% certainties in most people's top 5.
[/quote]

I'd have Gerrard ahead of Jocky, but I'd have the same five players.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43794.msg1260958#msg1260958 date=1295881705]
He played about a third of that season if I'm not mistaken, bringing himself back about this time in the New Year for the run-in.

The point I'm making about when he stopped playing is that our success didn't then go on much longer. We never did replace him adequately as a player.
[/quote]

He did that in his first season as player manager. By the 1987/88 season he only played once or twice.

I think he did build a pretty decent team around that time. One argument is that he didn't start to replace that side when he should have done, which was why Souness came in and immediately set about trying to clear players out.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43794.msg1260967#msg1260967 date=1295882059]
[quote author=Pasim link=topic=43794.msg1260959#msg1260959 date=1295881761]
Kenny
Souness
Hansen
Gerrard
Barnes

I know it's a subjective matter but I'm amazed that Oncy can do a top 5 without Souness and Sunny can do one without Hansen - I would imagine these 2 would be 100% certainties in most people's top 5.
[/quote]

I'd have Gerrard ahead of Jocky, but I'd have the same five players.
[/quote]

Of my top 5 I'm certain that Kenny is No.1 and Barnes No.5 but the other 3 are all about level in my eyes so I'll consider Hansen, Gerrard & Souey all joint 2nd.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=43794.msg1260897#msg1260897 date=1295879988]
Trust me on this. Kenny by a country mile.
One or two of us have fallen out over my position that Kenny is the best player Britain has ever seen, when you tale into account the whole package of player, professional and man.

I am not even sure if it's between Gerrard and Kenny to be honest


regards
[/quote]

Surprised on this mate and, no, I'm afraid I don't trust you. :angel:

I grew up watching Keegan destroying teams and I'm surprised that Oncy doesn't find a place for him in the top 5. I truly doubted that we'd find someone to adequately fill the hole that was left. That Kenny not only filled it but improved it is one of the most staggering tributes that he can be paid. He was simply breathtaking and deserving of the title of king.

However, the first point is that you include Best in the category of inferior players and I'm afraid that's not right. As marvelous as Kenny was he wasn't at that level - so I therefore can't trust you. 😛olice:

As for Gerrard; Kenny is without doubt the more creative, the more charismatic and had that touch of the sublime about him. Gerrard, however, brings a power and drive that is simply unplayable at times. He's scored some of the greatest goals the game has ever seen or ever will see and he's done it at the biggest moments imaginable.

On the face of it I would give it to Stevie except for one point already made; in one of the greatest teams ever assembled Kenny still stood out as exceptional. I have no doubt that Stevie would have comfortably been a part of that team but would he have been viewed as its best or even one of its best players? I'm not convinced.

Paradoxically, for Stevie to have proven himself the greatest player ever to play for us he would have needed, IMO, to sign for Chelsea. I think he would have gone on to dominate them and would probably have been recognized as an all time great. Fortunately for us he didn't do it and I suspect his legacy, in general football circles, will suffer as a result. Kenny still edges it for me - at least until our captains next game.
 
[quote author=Pasim link=topic=43794.msg1260959#msg1260959 date=1295881761]
Kenny
Souness
Hansen
Gerrard
Barnes

I know it's a subjective matter but I'm amazed that Oncy can do a top 5 without Souness and Sunny can do one without Hansen - I would imagine these 2 would be 100% certainties in most people's top 5.
[/quote]

To show how subjective it is I think all three of you are off your rocker not to have Keegan in the top 5. Replaced and improved on he was by Kenny but that's hardly an insult. I know he left us but what a player he was.

I'll also mention Bunny's post cause it's an excellent point and one that Rafa made about Stevie as well. When asked about Lampard (runner up for footballer of the year I at the time) and Gerrard he replied that Lampard was an excellent player for Chelsea scoring a lot of goals. But, "I could play Stevie at RB, LM, DM, RM or AM and he'd still be one of the best players in the league in that position". This is something that Kenny, for all his greatness, could never do. It's also something that Souness, Molby et al could never manage either.

I understand JJ's romanticism for Souness who played a tougher role in a harder period of the games history but I don't think he could have handled Gerrard. In toughness - sure. He also had a cannon for a shot but he'd have fallen short of Stevie in that regard, he didn't have near the same engine nor could he come close to the passing game that Gerrard has.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=43794.msg1260976#msg1260976 date=1295882474]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=43794.msg1260897#msg1260897 date=1295879988]
Trust me on this. Kenny by a country mile.
One or two of us have fallen out over my position that Kenny is the best player Britain has ever seen, when you tale into account the whole package of player, professional and man.

I am not even sure if it's between Gerrard and Kenny to be honest


regards
[/quote]

Surprised on this mate and, no, I'm afraid I don't trust you. :angel:

I grew up watching Keegan destroying teams and I'm surprised that Oncy doesn't find a place for him in the top 5. I truly doubted that we'd find someone to adequately fill the hole that was left. That Kenny not only filled it but improved it is one of the most staggering tributes that he can be paid. He was simply breathtaking and deserving of the title of king.

However, the first point is that you include Best in the category of inferior players and I'm afraid that's not right. As marvelous as Kenny was he wasn't at that level - so I therefore can't trust you. 😛olice:

As for Gerrard; Kenny is without doubt the more creative, the more charismatic and had that touch of the sublime about him. Gerrard, however, brings a power and drive that is simply unplayable at times. He's scored some of the greatest goals the game has ever seen or ever will see and he's done it at the biggest moments imaginable.

On the face of it I would give it to Stevie except for one point already made; in one of the greatest teams ever assembled Kenny still stood out as exceptional. I have no doubt that Stevie would have comfortably been a part of that team but would he have been viewed as its best or even one of its best players? I'm not convinced.

Paradoxically, for Stevie to have proven himself the greatest player ever to play for us he would have needed, IMO, to sign for Chelsea. I think he would have gone on to dominate them and would probably have been recognized as an all time great. Fortunately for us he didn't do it and I suspect his legacy, in general football circles, will suffer as a result. Kenny still edges it for me - at least until our captains next game.
[/quote]The first team i remember was the 1982 side. I dont really remember keegan or for that matter Souness. I am fully aware of the importance and impact of both players but to put them in my own personal top five would be disshonest to what i feel. I know Souness is better than mcmahon but mcmahon means more to me. Thats not of course the original debate, and i do genuinely feel Gerrard is the better player but when it comes to my favourites well skill or ability or impact arent the be all and end all.
Hence Whelan, Henchoz, Hamann, Aldo etc all being amongt my favourite players.
Best 5:
Gerrard, Kenny, Barnes, Souness, Hansen.
 
Hello again Wizardry! Would pick up a few things:

1. As you probably recall, I too consider George Best the greatest footballer ever. He could do more things to a higher standard than any other player I've ever seen or ever expect to see.

2. Where I would differ from you is over what would have happened had Stevie taken Chelsea's shilling. It was plain at the time (and is all the more so from his book) that he was utterly torn by the prospect of leaving and, quite unlike you, I don't think his form would ever have fully recovered. The trophies he'd have won would have been only partial consolation so, money aside, IMHO it would have been the wrong move for him to have made.

3. Keegan was a tremendous player and, like all of us, I wondered how or indeed if we'd manage to replace him. However, he was perhaps the best example I've ever seen of a player who made the best of what he had - and did it to magnificent effect - despite fundamentally not being as talented as a number of his contemporaries (in fact I'm pretty sure the man himself has said as much in his time). So zero apology, I'm afraid, for not (quite) including him in the top five LFC players. It's hardly a criticism after all.

4. None either for preferring Souey - just - to Stevie, at least for the moment. If Souey had had the benefit of modern training, nutrition and preparation (the only sensible basis on which one can make these comparisons) I simply don't agree that he wouldn't have handled Stevie and I specifically disagree with your comparison in respect of passing - Souey's short passing was as far in advance of Stevie's as Stevie's long passing is ahead of his, perhaps more so.
 
George Best - genius of a footballer who completely wasted it. Quit the game at 28. Waster.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=43794.msg1260971#msg1260971 date=1295882324]
I don't remember the 80's lot in their prime, so:

Gerrard
Molby
Fowler
Hamann
Torres

[/quote]

Same, or the early 90s..

Gerrard
Torres
Fowler
Owen
McManaman.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=43794.msg1261011#msg1261011 date=1295883104]
[quote author=Pasim link=topic=43794.msg1260959#msg1260959 date=1295881761]
Kenny
Souness
Hansen
Gerrard
Barnes

I know it's a subjective matter but I'm amazed that Oncy can do a top 5 without Souness and Sunny can do one without Hansen - I would imagine these 2 would be 100% certainties in most people's top 5.
[/quote]

To show how subjective it is I think all three of you are off your rocker not to have Keegan in the top 5. Replaced and improved on he was by Kenny but that's hardly an insult. I know he left us but what a player he was.

I'll also mention Bunny's post cause it's an excellent point and one that Rafa made about Stevie as well. When asked about Lampard (runner up for footballer of the year I at the time) and Gerrard he replied that Lampard was an excellent player for Chelsea scoring a lot of goals. But, "I could play Stevie at RB, LM, DM, RM or AM and he'd still be one of the best players in the league in that position". This is something that Kenny, for all his greatness, could never do. It's also something that Souness, Molby et al could never manage either.

I understand JJ's romanticism for Souness who played a tougher role in a harder period of the games history but I don't think he could have handled Gerrard. In toughness - sure. He also had a cannon for a shot but he'd have fallen short of Stevie in that regard, he didn't have near the same engine nor could he come close to the passing game that Gerrard has.
[/quote]

I agree re Keegan, Wiz, he does tend to get a raw deal in these comparative threads.
The other thing we have mentioned before it is very difficult to say who is the greatest and who is not if you have not seen people play. Billy Liddle should probably be in the mix too, but I never saw him.
I can only qualify the below as I saw them all make their debut and play for us until they left , with the exception of Gerrard of course. He has never managed to command a midfield like Souey did.

Kenny
Souness
Keegan
Gerrard
Hansen

regards
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=43794.msg1261011#msg1261011 date=1295883104]
[quote author=Pasim link=topic=43794.msg1260959#msg1260959 date=1295881761]
Kenny
Souness
Hansen
Gerrard
Barnes

I know it's a subjective matter but I'm amazed that Oncy can do a top 5 without Souness and Sunny can do one without Hansen - I would imagine these 2 would be 100% certainties in most people's top 5.
[/quote]

To show how subjective it is I think all three of you are off your rocker not to have Keegan in the top 5. Replaced and improved on he was by Kenny but that's hardly an insult. I know he left us but what a player he was.

I'll also mention Bunny's post cause it's an excellent point and one that Rafa made about Stevie as well. When asked about Lampard (runner up for footballer of the year I at the time) and Gerrard he replied that Lampard was an excellent player for Chelsea scoring a lot of goals. But, "I could play Stevie at RB, LM, DM, RM or AM and he'd still be one of the best players in the league in that position". This is something that Kenny, for all his greatness, could never do. It's also something that Souness, Molby et al could never manage either.

I understand JJ's romanticism for Souness who played a tougher role in a harder period of the games history but I don't think he could have handled Gerrard. In toughness - sure. He also had a cannon for a shot but he'd have fallen short of Stevie in that regard, he didn't have near the same engine nor could he come close to the passing game that Gerrard has.
[/quote]

Good point about Keegan Wiz, he often gets overlooked in these polls because he was directly replaced by Kenny who surpassed his achievements. Keegan should be in my Top 5 and it was a mistake to overlook him so I replace Barnes with King Kevin who shares joint 2nd place with Gerrard, Souey and Jocky.
 
Best I've seen

Gerrard
Hyypia
Alonso
Torres
Reina

Disclaimer: I've seen Fowler but not in his prime
 
If I have to pick between Kenny and Gerrard I'd say Kenny by a mile.

However, I'd like to argue that it's not really between them.

There's another midfielder that has scored 100 goals for the club. Can you guess who?

To me he's the most skillful player that has ever played for Liverpool.

However I have to admit that Kenny is the greatest.
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=43794.msg1261105#msg1261105 date=1295885547]
If I have to pick between Kenny and Gerrard I'd say Kenny by a mile.

However, I'd like to argue that it's not really between them.

There's another midfielder that has scored 100 goals for the club. Can you guess who?

To me he's the most skillful player that has ever played for Liverpool.

However I have to admit that Kenny is the greatest.
[/quote]

Barnes surely
 
Jules, I have got to disagree with you on Souness vs Gerrard.

Gerrard's touch and technical ability is on par with the best of footballers around. It's just that so much of his career has been about power and drive, that people easily overlook that aspect of Gerrard.

I'm just posting two examples of his sublime skill that came to my mind...

Steven Gerrard Skill

Steven Gerrard Skill Vs Stoke [HD]

I don't think Souness would match up to what Gerrard can do without making any compromise on Pace/Power/Drive.
 
"Gerrard is Souness with pace and that's a hell of a player." - Alan Hansen


and that was before he started scoring for fun too.
 
Stevie for me.

Maybe it's because he's the player of 'my generation', but I feel like I lived Gerrard's career, seeing him grow in real time, those little passes and bursts where he started to show signs of the player he'd eventually become. Living it and seeing it retrospectively are two very different things. Kenny is the player my dad always told me about when I was a kid, so he was always this mythical figure in my mind. But no amount of stories or video clips is the same as seeing a story unfold.

I love that they're both at our club together right now.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=43794.msg1261114#msg1261114 date=1295885737]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=43794.msg1261105#msg1261105 date=1295885547]
If I have to pick between Kenny and Gerrard I'd say Kenny by a mile.

However, I'd like to argue that it's not really between them.

There's another midfielder that has scored 100 goals for the club. Can you guess who?

To me he's the most skillful player that has ever played for Liverpool.

However I have to admit that Kenny is the greatest.
[/quote]

Barnes surely
[/quote]

Exactly
 
I never ever saw anyone dominate Souness, ever.

I would have loved to have seen Souey up against Roy Keane at the top of their games, Souness would have eaten him up and spat him out
He had power , drive, passing shooting and he was a ruthless twat
regards
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=43794.msg1261129#msg1261129 date=1295886436]
I would have loved to have seen Souey up against Roy Keane at the top of their games, Souness would have eaten him up and spat him out
[/quote]

Quite. Keane could give it but got most upset when someone gave it him back. I recall the Souness story when he punched some guys jaw (a Romanian team?) in the first leg, so in the second leg they were constantly all over him. He didn't back down, just got on with business.

Marvellous.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=43794.msg1261129#msg1261129 date=1295886436]
I never ever saw anyone dominate Souness, ever.

I would have loved to have seen Souey up against Roy Keane at the top of their games, Souness would have eaten him up and spat him out
He had power , drive, passing shooting and he was a ruthless twat
regards
[/quote]

He played for one hell of a team Vlad. Only a handful of teams would have dominated Liverpool in those days. They will lose the odd game etc....but it would require something truly special to dominate a team like that. That has not been the case with Liverpool in the last few years.

When we had Gerrard, Masher and Alonso available, i didn't think anybody managed to dominate our midfield either.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=43794.msg1261129#msg1261129 date=1295886436]
I never ever saw anyone dominate Souness, ever.

I would have loved to have seen Souey up against Roy Keane at the top of their games, Souness would have eaten him up and spat him out
He had power , drive, passing shooting and he was a ruthless twat
regards
[/quote]

Souness would have destroyed Keane, Viera, Ince, Batty - the lot of them. He was the business - no tougher around. Hardest player on the pitch I've ever seen.
 
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