I think Ox (if he plays like he did yesterday) Milner and Can would be my 1st choice. Henderson isn't a bad choice off the bench, though I am torn with Lallana as I would like to see him have more games.
What's our best CM 3?
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Ox has had some very good games, and some ganes where hes been even more invisible than Gini. Id go with Can Milner Lallana, whats clear is that we probably dont have a settled first choice line up and thats likely to complicate further when Keita joins and Can leaves in the summer.
I don't for one second imagine that we won't replace Can with a 1st team starter (didn't Joyce say Jorginho is our top target)? If we get him then that's two first team places secured and the third would likely come from Hendo/Lallana/Gini and depend on the opposition and home/away. Good to have cover, we have been down to the bone with midfield injuries at times.
I hate Can. He's a cunt.
There isn't such a thing as our best CM 3. It'll vary according to (a) form and (b) the gameplan for each fixture.
I can see what Klopp is doing - the selling of Coutinho is a kind of blessing, as its allowed him to play a more solid midfield - Coutinho was good for going forward and creativity but in terms of having a fight for that ball - he was a liability in midfield because it only leaves the other two mid's to do any clean-up/defensive work. It's better now and more organised. However, regarding the best 3 - its hard to tell - and depends much on the opposition we are playing. In terms of pure consistency amongst our midfield we only have one player and that is Henderson. The other lot :-
a) OX - performs well now and then.
b) Can - consistent but can fade and get reckless in his duties.
c) Gini - pure Homer - and again inconsistent.
d) Henderson - Consistent but can stifle creativity and urgency in a game if given defensive duties.
e) Lallana - really to light at times for midfield, I don't really know what he can do for us now other than to help out if Salah gets injured. I know of his ability to play in tight spaces, but physically I don't know if he can be upto the job.
f) Milner - I wish he was 3 years younger - the pro who has it all but does not have the legs for the full game these days - I love the guy - he is a great reader of a game as it develops.
So as a starting 3 against the best opposition - you must always consider the three that started against City:-
Can, Ox, Gini
but you could instead of Can have:
Henderson, Ox, Gini
The above three combinations are equal in quality but the one with Henderson could be more solid defensively for me.
a) OX - performs well now and then.
b) Can - consistent but can fade and get reckless in his duties.
c) Gini - pure Homer - and again inconsistent.
d) Henderson - Consistent but can stifle creativity and urgency in a game if given defensive duties.
e) Lallana - really to light at times for midfield, I don't really know what he can do for us now other than to help out if Salah gets injured. I know of his ability to play in tight spaces, but physically I don't know if he can be upto the job.
f) Milner - I wish he was 3 years younger - the pro who has it all but does not have the legs for the full game these days - I love the guy - he is a great reader of a game as it develops.
So as a starting 3 against the best opposition - you must always consider the three that started against City:-
Can, Ox, Gini
but you could instead of Can have:
Henderson, Ox, Gini
The above three combinations are equal in quality but the one with Henderson could be more solid defensively for me.
You really think he is that Ice cold that he sold a potential match winner to build a more solid midfield 3? Insane if true.... I can't believe anyone would do that, but I like the idea. However he removes a front 3 option.
Yes that is the downside to that - but overall I always thought it was risky playing all four attacking players. If it was his choice I don't think any manager would have sold in January even for that money as he was a potential game-changer. However, in all honesty did no one ever get the feeling we were very light in midfield everytime we played him along with the other three ? - I always worried that the defense would have a lot to deal with once the ball is lost in midfield.
I think it was some clever poster on here who actually posted something very articulate about Klopp having to play him despite a more stable lineup - I agreed with that poster 100%. @rurikbird - needs to get the stats tools out to work out how we have fared defensively since his departure. I mean the goals have not dried up - we are scoring regularly - Firminio is nearly scoring all the time now and Mane is back in the game too plus Salah has not stopped. There has been a slight drop in our creative beauty but I have to say when Ox has been in form - he kind of replaces that creative beauty with more bustling display of pace and power from midfield. I doubt if we had Coutinho he (Ox) would get the opportunities he has had recently.
My work here is done.
Yep, I'm pretty sure when our midfield was from Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano and Lucas, no one was saying "it depends on who we're playing". Though I do get the general point, about horses for courses. If the players are that good, you don't fuck with it. The problem with the current lot is that not one of them demand a place in the team. When you've got 4 or 5 players vying for 2 or 3 spots and you couldn't name a best three (or at least one you would always pick), there's an obvious problem.
See where you're coming from of course but, on the other hand, when you're as dependent as we were on that admittedly stellar midfield there's always a risk of problems arising when one of them is unavailable for whatever reason, as is bound to happen at some point. If we can get our hands on players of the quality of Gerrard/Alonso/Masher (as I hope we may have done with Keita) we should obv.go for it. However, before we get to that stage we need to cut our suit according to our cloth and, even after we reach that point, the number of competitions we want to challenge in will mean they probably won't play every single game anyway, especially with the demands Klopp's style makes on fitness and stamina.
The thing about world-class players is that their range of abilities is so wide that they can be used in any sort of game – when you need to be patient and hold possession, they can do it, when you need to defend they can do it too, whatever you need: creativity, pressing, goals, assists – they got it! Whereas more limited players have a more limited application – let's say whenever we play a midfield trio of Can, Hendo and Gini you can really feel the lack of crativity. Or remember how with Joe Allen you needed to create almost perfect conditions for him to be effective – a midfield 3 with just the right partners, and the right opposition and type of game – then he could deliver but as soon as one condition changed he became ineffective.
This is why I like that Klopp is going for midfielders with wide-ranging talents; Gini is already far more versatile than Allen and Keita even more so. Other midfielders we've been linked to (particularly ones from the continent) fit the same pattern too.
This is why I like that Klopp is going for midfielders with wide-ranging talents; Gini is already far more versatile than Allen and Keita even more so. Other midfielders we've been linked to (particularly ones from the continent) fit the same pattern too.
Our midfielders aren't anywhere near as good as either of those trio's either, which is the bigger problem. If we had players that good - then they'd invariably play most weeks.
Epic performances ... or a Trojan horse?
Guaranteed Ryan-pleaser of a comment. But of course the response is (a) assuming they are all on their best form - which should be implicit and (b) we are Liverpool, let the opposition worry about us .... well maybe I'm 20 years out-of-date with that point of view!
We do have a best front 3 though - little argument there I think.
Depends who we are playing.
At home against the sides outside the Top 6:
Hendo or Can
Then two or Ox, Milner or Lallana
Against the top sides:
Hendo or Can
Then Wijnaldum alongside one of Milner, Ox or Lallana.
I don't think we have a midfield three that is best to face any type of opposition. Next season it will be the same as against the weaker sides I'd hope to see Keita with a Lemar type ahead of the deepest CM (Jorginho type or Henderson). But against the stronger teams, I think Keita should be the more attacking CM, with two more defensive minded ones.
At home against the sides outside the Top 6:
Hendo or Can
Then two or Ox, Milner or Lallana
Against the top sides:
Hendo or Can
Then Wijnaldum alongside one of Milner, Ox or Lallana.
I don't think we have a midfield three that is best to face any type of opposition. Next season it will be the same as against the weaker sides I'd hope to see Keita with a Lemar type ahead of the deepest CM (Jorginho type or Henderson). But against the stronger teams, I think Keita should be the more attacking CM, with two more defensive minded ones.
Great post, yes Coutinho going has given us stability. However when we played Spurs that were one game where Coutinho's maverick abilities would have made a difference. I think long term kloop needs to build his team in midfield around Keita. If we could sign a quality DLP then our midfield will be complete. Also, I think we could reimagine the role that Coutinho provided, with Keita in place even though I know Keita can't match Coutinho's maverick abilities his attacking skill set is still more than good enough.
Only reason why we don't have a best CM 3 is because they're all average at best. If we had quality then of course there's such a thing as a best CM 3 just as there is such a thing as a best front 3 as well as a best 11. We never say that we need to chop and change our front 3 depending on the opposition do we. All it shows is the lack of quality in our squad.
Not buying. None of the front three have been ever-present this season, nor do any of the other top teams stick to the same selection game after game.
Of course it's not possible to play every game because of fatigue and injuries. But if we were going to play in a cup final this weekend you know for a FACT that there are certain players that would be picked if fully fit regardless of the opposition. Firmino, mane, Salah, van dijk, Robertson. They would be part of our best 11.
I think that's harsh and not something I agree with.
Our midfield get a lot of shit, but let's just remember we restrict opposition teams to the 2nd least amount of shots on our goal out of all the teams in Europe, second to Man City. Our attack is scoring shit loads of goals, ur midfield need to feed the attack. We control a lot of games.
So they are clearly doing a lot right.
I agree with your other point, that we need to pick and choose for the right games. So we don't have complete players who can thrive in any situation, this is where Keita will be a big upgrade.
But our midfield is better than average, it's just not elite. But it will be soon.
Henderson - shite
Can - shite
Wijnladum - shite
Milner - Solid.
Lallana - Good but no good tracking back
Ox - Ditto.
How can you pick a best three out of that load of bollocks? On paper the latter three are the best players but they'd get rinsed by a decent side and put too much pressure on the back four. So the best three is
Milner
One of Lallana / Ox
One of Henderson / Can / Wijnladum.
Either way, it's not great is it?
Can - shite
Wijnladum - shite
Milner - Solid.
Lallana - Good but no good tracking back
Ox - Ditto.
How can you pick a best three out of that load of bollocks? On paper the latter three are the best players but they'd get rinsed by a decent side and put too much pressure on the back four. So the best three is
Milner
One of Lallana / Ox
One of Henderson / Can / Wijnladum.
Either way, it's not great is it?
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