what has this season taught you?
- Thread starter redhorizon2
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I repeat the challenge in my previous post, which you and others appear to have swerved past rather than answer. Would you say the same things about Can, Hendo, Skrtel (to name but three)? If yes, then all our players have given "next to nothing back", not just Lallana. If no, then Morse's table demonstrates that criticising Lallana in particular in this way doesn't hold water. Either way, singling him out doesn't make any sense.
A player can play excellent in 5 games, and terribly in 20 games, for example ... and have more points than a player who played '3rd star' level for 24 games ...
Morse's table isn't fully reflective of a player's contribution to a season. Almost everyone would argue (and rightly so) that Henderson, Can and Skrtel have contributed more to our season than Lallana.
As others have said, his table is not fully representative of a players contribution over a season, it only judges the top three players in a game, and not necessarily in games where we played well or won. You could feasibly be the best player in a handful of games where we were rubbish and be high up in the table.
If you think that Lallana has contributed more than Henderson this season, then you're badly mistaken. Can and Skrtel are arguable. Can is a lot younger and cheaper though, so he has that excuse.
Edit: Actually I don't think it's arguable that he's contributed more than Skrtel and Can, but anyway that's besides the point.
You're missing the point, gentlemen. I'm not arguing that Lallana has contributed more than those other players. I'm arguing that the perception that he's "given next to nothing" to our season doesn't stand up. To believe that you'd have to believe that the table is completely meaningless, and I don't.
No. I'm not completely happy with anyone's contribution - I rarely am, but it hasn't been that sort of season anyway. What I'm saying is that IMO Lallana's been getting, in this thread and in one or two others more recently, more than his fair share of criticism, the apparent allegation being that he's fallen short of expectations to a greater degree than a number of other players have. I don't believe that's justified by the available evidence.
I think you discount the fact that he should have different criteria to be accounted by. He can't be compared to Can and Markovic for example, as they are at a different stage of development, and the expectations should be lower.
He was bought at a prime age, for a lot of money, that's what people are judging him against. And it's not harsh in the least.
I wouldn't actually disagree with your last post. Where we differ is in our respective estimations of his actual performance. You believe he's given next to nothing. I don't.
Yeah. I really should have bought a different car too - I mean this one has been involved in an accident, one tyre blowout and 3 flats.
A car can't train to avoid those issues. A player can
Emm.. We should blame the club. Is that not the whole point? The club made a bad signing that has cost us this season.
If you bought an expensive one, then you probably should have bought a different car, or at least one with better tyres. If it was a cheap car, then its to be expected that you'll have some issues.
This is what I have learnt.
1. That the greed of footballers and lack of loyalty continues to disgust me.
2. The disparity between oligarchs and their plaything clubs and others less fortunate have ruined the game.
3. Sterling is better than I thought but well..... See point 1.
4. LFC's youth system seems to be working as nicely as it did in the 90's
5. I believe BR is a big reason for that and in my opinion he is a massive asset to the club.
6. Never fawn over a new signing just because he's new. I always do but from now on I won't.
7. Cricket is nudging ever nearer to being my true sporting passion.*
*That said I'm off to the semi at the weekend at great expense so maybe my love is not dead yet 😉
1. That the greed of footballers and lack of loyalty continues to disgust me.
2. The disparity between oligarchs and their plaything clubs and others less fortunate have ruined the game.
3. Sterling is better than I thought but well..... See point 1.
4. LFC's youth system seems to be working as nicely as it did in the 90's
5. I believe BR is a big reason for that and in my opinion he is a massive asset to the club.
6. Never fawn over a new signing just because he's new. I always do but from now on I won't.
7. Cricket is nudging ever nearer to being my true sporting passion.*
*That said I'm off to the semi at the weekend at great expense so maybe my love is not dead yet 😉
The fact my lad, who is 7, isn't falling in love with Liverpool, or football, may not actually be a bad thing for him long term.
If I could erase my love for footy I think I would, when I could afford to go & me & my mates could go together it was rewarding, but now I feel like the fans are giving everything & getting very little back.
If I could erase my love for footy I think I would, when I could afford to go & me & my mates could go together it was rewarding, but now I feel like the fans are giving everything & getting very little back.
That wasn't Rosco's point but a wonderful misinterpretation all the same Gerry.
And yeah, blame the whole season on Lallana. WTF have you been smoking.
It's depressing that footy has become so acidic in it's moral structure. Agents, money, greed, diving (which is essentially cheating) Oligarchs. I'm not sure at this point I'd want my lad into it either. Annoying as it is I love LFC more than I'd like to. I can't help it - It sounds stupid but I'd still be proud if my lad followed the mighty reds - An annoying moral contradiction.
Depends what you were expecting. I thought he'd have a season pretty much like this. With less injuries perhaps.
In the games I've watched him play in (i.e. all) Lallana's been good to excellent. I don't get the derision over his signing, that so many of you seem to have. Perhaps it's the fee, who knows, but that's not his fault.
He had no pre-season, has had an injury-interrupted year, has been asked to play in a variety of roles, and despite all that has looked real class just about everytime I've seen him play. He scores goals, he creates them, works hard, retains possession beautifully, links well with Coutinho and Sterling. There's a lot to like. I'd have him in the team every week if fit.
I don't get the issues with Lallana, I really don't. He's a top footballer.
He had no pre-season, has had an injury-interrupted year, has been asked to play in a variety of roles, and despite all that has looked real class just about everytime I've seen him play. He scores goals, he creates them, works hard, retains possession beautifully, links well with Coutinho and Sterling. There's a lot to like. I'd have him in the team every week if fit.
I don't get the issues with Lallana, I really don't. He's a top footballer.
In 35 games this season he has had 5 goals and 4 assists.
Hardly someone you can say scores and creates goals.
Henderson for example
In 49 matches has 8 goals and 13 assists.
I and many others would have expected treble the amount of assists from Lallana never mind his poor goal return.
Lallana has started 25 matches, Henderson's started 42.
I'm loathe to get into a stat-debate as it serves very little purpose, but it's worthwhile ensuring we're comparing apples to apples Dreamy. Up until the end of February, Lallana had the best minute-per-goal and minute-per-assist ratio of anyone at the club. He was in the top 15 in the league for it too if memory serves me correctly. So, contrary to your judgement, he does "score and create goals" when he plays. Since then he's been injured and out of the side.
His minutes per goal ratio even now is still better than Henderson's, not that it matters to me but you brought him into this debate in some inglorious attempt at making a point, so I thought I'd set you straight.
I can't help with what you "expected" though unfortunately.
Can you fit Lallana and Coutinho in the same side though?
I do rate Lallana myself btw. Find it hard to believe he's chucked into the flops category by a lot of Liverpool fans.
This season's taught me that I'm happier when I'm not watching the team I love(d?) struggle to be anything more than mediocre.
This season's taught me that said struggle has no end in sight.
This season's taught me that fair-weather fans and casuals had it right all along; get all of the highs, none of the lows, and enjoy life outside of sports.
This season's taught me that said struggle has no end in sight.
This season's taught me that fair-weather fans and casuals had it right all along; get all of the highs, none of the lows, and enjoy life outside of sports.
Yes. I think they're quite different players in terms of playing style and their areas of highest effectiveness - Coutinho does his best work around and a few yards off the edge of the box, splitting defences with passes or drawing defenders, making them look stupid eluding them, and thus opening up spaces for others.
Lallana is at his best taking the ball and driving into the box with it, where his quick feet and close control allows him to jig into space (as long as he doesn't get a knock/tap on his ankles that quickly sends him down clutching them). Without the ball, he seems to have great anticipation and gets into open scoring positions that Garcia, Kuyt and Maxi once did so well for us - his chance conversion rate needs to improve though.
It'll be easier to fit them both in the team in a back four though, as that then allows us to fit an extra AM into the team at the expense of a CB. With the back three, it gets trickier as it means Sterling has to play as a wing back or central striker, both of which aren't making the best use of him.
Screenshot for future embarrassment.
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