That was one of the main things about Moneyball...
what has this season taught you?
- Thread starter redhorizon2
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Status
Moneyball is the use of data analytics to find advantages.
Soccermaniacs suggested one category of players that could be undervalued were players with problems.
I find it hard to accept Balotelli was undervalued when we bought him. In 7 seasons he's hit double figures three times.
Soccermaniacs suggested one category of players that could be undervalued were players with problems.
I find it hard to accept Balotelli was undervalued when we bought him. In 7 seasons he's hit double figures three times.
YUp, sorely missing.
He's like a traumatic event my mind has erased to protect me
I would say Balotelli is the opposite of Moneyball. Overhyped due to two displays - against Germany in the Euro semi finals and "Why Always me" against the Mancs.
Gave the impression that he was a big game player who was waiting for the right environment to turn it on.
You clearly haven't read Moneyball.
- That Steven Gerrard is actually human.
- That Luis Suarez really, really was a great player.
- That the owners are slowly but surely updating the facilities and can run a business.
- That our transfer picks aren't scientifically proven given the data sets we employ and our personnel department seems incapable of conducting negotiations in private.
- That Luis Suarez really, really was a great player.
- That the owners are slowly but surely updating the facilities and can run a business.
- That our transfer picks aren't scientifically proven given the data sets we employ and our personnel department seems incapable of conducting negotiations in private.
I have, but it was ten years ago.
The main thrust if it is the use of sabremetrics to identify players who were undervalued. Back then it walks and OBP were those skills that were undervalued - partly because conventional baseball wisdom didn't recognise them as skills.
Anybody claiming that Balotelli was a moneyball signing is confusing moneyball with soccermetrics. And are horrible at identifying good examples of an undervalued player.
Peekay is spot on, Balotelli is exactly the sort of signing Soccermetrics warns us about.
I've yet to see anyone explain how Balotelli was undervalued at 16m and 120k a week, and what advanced metrics indicated he'd be a good signing.
He was considered all we could get at the time, and given our penchant for panic buying was ideal for us
Following on from last season in which, for the first time in many years, we can compete for the title. This season has been a mixed bag and Brodgers had a poor summer in the transfer window (predominantly not ensuring adequate cover for Sturridge) but all top managers make mistakes. Our poor start meant that we never got to make a title challenge this season but we are not far off the required standard.
With players such as Ibe, Sterling, Henderson, Coutinho, Markovic (I have faith), Flanagan, Lallana, Skrtel, Sturridge etc we have the basis of a title winning team. Brodgers needs a good transfer window this summer. We need to raise funds by selling.......Borini, Glenjo, Lambert, Wisdom, Aspas, Lovren, Lucas, Enrique, Alberto, Brad Jones and Balotelli. We need one good young keeper, Danny Ings and then splash most of our money on 2* really good CM'ers. If we can get the CM right I think we're ready to challenge strongly next season.
*IMO we need to 2 CM'ers even though Henderson is excellent and should fill one CM slot but we need two other CM'ers to allow for a bit of rotation. Joe Allen is good but he is what he is....a £14m squad player who can do a job.
5 years ago we would look at the likes of Chelsea and United with exasperation at how far behind them we were (in terms of talent) whereas now, despite our 2 recent poor games against Arsenal and United, I feel we can challenge these teams on an equal footing.
The last 2 seasons are the first in 20+ seasons that I actually feel that the title is within our reach.
With players such as Ibe, Sterling, Henderson, Coutinho, Markovic (I have faith), Flanagan, Lallana, Skrtel, Sturridge etc we have the basis of a title winning team. Brodgers needs a good transfer window this summer. We need to raise funds by selling.......Borini, Glenjo, Lambert, Wisdom, Aspas, Lovren, Lucas, Enrique, Alberto, Brad Jones and Balotelli. We need one good young keeper, Danny Ings and then splash most of our money on 2* really good CM'ers. If we can get the CM right I think we're ready to challenge strongly next season.
*IMO we need to 2 CM'ers even though Henderson is excellent and should fill one CM slot but we need two other CM'ers to allow for a bit of rotation. Joe Allen is good but he is what he is....a £14m squad player who can do a job.
5 years ago we would look at the likes of Chelsea and United with exasperation at how far behind them we were (in terms of talent) whereas now, despite our 2 recent poor games against Arsenal and United, I feel we can challenge these teams on an equal footing.
The last 2 seasons are the first in 20+ seasons that I actually feel that the title is within our reach.
Good post Pesam. I largely feel the same way. But I think that it's clear that we need an adamantium-based, world class striker. And Danny Ings. All other priorities are rescinded. All the named players above could go and all that money should get the next Suarez. Then we could compete based on our squad continuity and ability to actually score a goal.
I think that if we had a Suarez-like individual in our side this season we would probably be in second place right now hoping for Chelsea's season to collapse, instead of in 5th, hoping City shit the bed.
I think that if we had a Suarez-like individual in our side this season we would probably be in second place right now hoping for Chelsea's season to collapse, instead of in 5th, hoping City shit the bed.
I agree that it would be great to find another Suarez but for me the priority is CM. I'm convinced Lucas is going and to be honest we should be looking at getting rid of him or Allen and I think Allen offers more (and is younger). With Gerrard going that leaves us 2 short in CM. I really like Hendo but he needs real quality beside him and then we need another top quality CM'er to give them competition and to allow for rotation.
Ings, Sturridge & Origi would be a big improvement on this season. I would love to add another (potential) Suarez in there but we'll need Brodgers to pull another Coutinho-type bargain out of the hat. Given that we'll probably stick to the "one-up-front" formation those 3 will do and there's always the chance that Ibe is going to continue to improve and become our new Suarez.
If we bought players like Pjanic and Carvalho for about £55m, Ings for £7m and a goalie for £10m...total £72m.......I'm sure the players (to be sold) i mentioned before will net us £50m and hopefully FSG will make up the balance.
Edit: I haven't seen enough of Pjanic and Carvalho to say for sure they're the ones we should be getting but I've been impressed when I've seen them....but if not them then players if that ilk.
This is where we disagree. We have no data to suggest that this would be true.
I hope against hope that Origi can come in and light up the Premier League, but it's improbable in his first season here. Same with Ings - is he really the type of player who can come in and seamlessly work within our structure and start banging them in? I sincerely hope so (if indeed we get him) but again improbable.
I also feel that Coutinho, Lallana, and Sterling are midfielders, who, along with Henderson, Allen, and Lucas give us enough of what we need to be highly competitive.
We just need a dude with a terrier like attitude and work rate with precision shooting boots. I'm happy if that's all we get.
And Pjanic would be okay too. And Reus.
And Pogba at a stretch.
I'd take Reus and Pogba but then who wouldn't 🙂
When I say Ings and Origi joining and replacing Borini, Balotelli and Lambert is an improvement I'm not predicting they're going to be huge successes. The jury is out on both of them but I have a hunch that Ings will be like Aldridge for us i.e. all he'll do is score (a shitload of) goals and Origi is all about potential at this stage. But Borini is poor and Baloltelli isn't much better so Ings/Origi will just have to stay fit IMO to provide better options up front for the manager.
We're Suarez-less from last season when we came within a few points of winning the Title. Just saying.
That injuries have cursed and crucified our season.
That BR was a Euro virgin .. and it showed.
That we have bought some great potential but that FSG need to balance their transfers more, rather than have them weighted in favour of youngsters who may become great players.
That starting the season, as many of us suspected, without another top striker has been our downfall.
That we don't have enough goals / goal-scorers in this team (compare our defence's contribution to that of Chelsea's : ca. 18 goals and 14 assists) and that means all depts.
That missing out on CL will have grave consequences ... either this or next season we must make the CL or be financially crippled (having less to spend is not being crippled, giving your opposition a 60M start on you, is).
That many on 6CM were completely wrong about Sakho.
That I was wrong about Skrtel.
That BR was a Euro virgin .. and it showed.
That we have bought some great potential but that FSG need to balance their transfers more, rather than have them weighted in favour of youngsters who may become great players.
That starting the season, as many of us suspected, without another top striker has been our downfall.
That we don't have enough goals / goal-scorers in this team (compare our defence's contribution to that of Chelsea's : ca. 18 goals and 14 assists) and that means all depts.
That missing out on CL will have grave consequences ... either this or next season we must make the CL or be financially crippled (having less to spend is not being crippled, giving your opposition a 60M start on you, is).
That many on 6CM were completely wrong about Sakho.
That I was wrong about Skrtel.
If we don't make the CL we can forget about players who are already known to football aficionados, we will be shopping bargain basement, and even if we do make the CL we'll still have problems attracting top players, as the Sanchez episode and others have already shown. Hasn't Pjanic already ruled us out ?
Can is already worth it if not more. Lallana......... you are having a laugh right? He's been a disappointment considering what we paid for him.
The main thing this season has thought me is that Rodgers more than likely is not the man to guide us to the title.
That we should have enjoyed last season more as it will be long time before we put teams to the sword like last season.
That we should have enjoyed last season more as it will be long time before we put teams to the sword like last season.
He missed all of pre-season and has been injured for much of the season .. what were you expecting ? Him to score from a hospital bed ?
Are you suggesting that he hasn't been a disappointment? That you're happy with what we've got from him this season?
I'm saying it's impossible to judge a player on no pre-season and an injury ravaged season.
But that won't stop the Lallana haters will it.
Besides which, even now the guy is 3rd in Morse's MOTM table. The names behind him in the table include Can, Hendo and Skrtel (to name just three) - does anyone think any of them have had a poor season? The team as a whole hasn't performed as we hoped, but it really is time we nailed this "Lallana's been poor" hangover from Modo's time on here once and for all.
He;s been a poor signing. We paid 25 odd million for him, and we've got next to nothing back this season for it.
I do have hopes we'll get more from him next season, like I do from Markovic, but that doesn't mean that signing him last summer has done us feck all use this season. And we would expect that a player of his age and experience would add something in their first season, it's acceptable to not get much from cheaper and younger players.
I do have hopes we'll get more from him next season, like I do from Markovic, but that doesn't mean that signing him last summer has done us feck all use this season. And we would expect that a player of his age and experience would add something in their first season, it's acceptable to not get much from cheaper and younger players.
- Status
