We could talk about Spurs.
Watford - Post Match
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We could talk about Spurs.
I think it's more of a wider discussion about Origi's season and future with us than him being a punching bag for the performance (we won so no-one really cares about that) although there is some point scoring going on.
Again, I'm one of those that have professed to really rate him but he's been very disappointing and the discussion is warranted. I'd love to understand what's gone wrong for him this season because I was really hoping for more.
But the last 3 pages of the match thread we did that.
I haven't argued that he's done or should be sold.
I've said the expectations for him need to be revised significantly downwards from the (bonkers) world class talent proclaimations. I should also point out that he's playing in the top scoring team in the league but isn't really benefitting, and can't nail down a regular starting spot even when we have no competition for the striker spot.
I get that people see the physical attributes and wonder about the possibilities - but i'll bet those same people were the ones saying Ibe had the potential to be better than Sterling. How is that working out ?
Thats where the mistakes in evaluation happen - you fall in love with certain aspects and then assume all the rest (finishing etc)will come in time. Very often it doesn't.
I've said the expectations for him need to be revised significantly downwards from the (bonkers) world class talent proclaimations. I should also point out that he's playing in the top scoring team in the league but isn't really benefitting, and can't nail down a regular starting spot even when we have no competition for the striker spot.
I get that people see the physical attributes and wonder about the possibilities - but i'll bet those same people were the ones saying Ibe had the potential to be better than Sterling. How is that working out ?
Thats where the mistakes in evaluation happen - you fall in love with certain aspects and then assume all the rest (finishing etc)will come in time. Very often it doesn't.
Whilst commuting + having morning coffee at the desk / having a good morning shit.
You've got a point. Still it is a strange combination to be old and wise enough to see that Ibe was never the better deal than Sterling, and still not old and wise enough to not go on here to pinpoint again and again that you might be right instead of the "bonkers" who was flying high about Origi based on his performances last season. If they are proven wrong, so let be it. Let them hype one of our own, instead of snapping on them when the young player go through a patchy spell.
Ideally he, due to being out of form, shouldn't have started the last few games. But the ones that should start and carry this team safely to CL are sitting on their arse in the VIP lounge. Instead of slaughetring those who are out there giving their best for this team, maybe we should allow them some space. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Origi is playing because Sturridge has something very wrong inside his head. Should he lead the line? Probably not, but in our sits there are no alternatives at the moment. So get behind him and pray that he keeps his record of 2 goals in every 6 games or so, cause those two goals will be very handy in the last couple of games.
Yeah thats what I asked. How much an analysis is "Hahahahaha" against this weeks scapegoat of a player. And then using his last few weeks form as proof of what a Waste of space he is, which is just as inaccurate to use April of last Seasons form as proof he is the real deal.
I get it that we ca discuss lack of attacking performance in a game we kept a blank sheet, while we normally lack defensive efforts in games were score quite a few. That is analysing, and maybe that balance in the team kept Origi silent. I don't know.
We can talk as much as you want about Origi. Just start a thread about him. Its not difficult, as you say to everyone else who cant find the new thread button.
Very good post mate. The interesting bit regarding his career is that he has 28 goals in 90 games when starting as a Centre Forward.
That is quite decent for a 22 year old.
That said, I agree about everything else. Big summer and next season for him, as he needs to improve.
I rate his potential and all the raw attributes that he has, and hopefully he can fulfill them here.
Drogba is the best example of a late bloomer, and he didn't score or look like he could become a very good player until he was 24/25.
I find the point scoring going on from the resident woman on here laughable though. Some rate Origi and some dont. So what, its called having an opinion.
Origi is the first player in Our Squad to Reach 40 games this season (19 starts + 21 subs). I don't think we meant he was going to be used this much this year. Sturridge in comparison has 9 + 15. I guess tired legs towards the end of the season is part of blame for his lack of form as we also see for Milner, Firmino and Wijnaldum.
Not the weather, career opportunities, sport, events, life style, good or women then?
Yeah, good points. I've been, and still am, a supporter of Origi.
Rightly so. Origi is a real talent.
I'm just not sure Klopp's Liverpool can afford a young striker, even a talented one, the time he needs.
His system is all about workrate, more workrate, effort, & then result.
You throw (for example) Suarez in our setup, & we're unstoppable.
You throw Origi in that strike force alongside Suarez a few years back & he looks world class, imo.
I'm not sure this team setup allows for a developing centre forward to actually develop, imo to be truly effective it needs the finished article. And that is no reflection on Origi, as he is doing very well.
I'm just not sure Klopp's Liverpool can afford a young striker, even a talented one, the time he needs.
His system is all about workrate, more workrate, effort, & then result.
You throw (for example) Suarez in our setup, & we're unstoppable.
You throw Origi in that strike force alongside Suarez a few years back & he looks world class, imo.
I'm not sure this team setup allows for a developing centre forward to actually develop, imo to be truly effective it needs the finished article. And that is no reflection on Origi, as he is doing very well.
I think if the young talented striker had heart, had fight in him, he'd be fine developing in Klopp's team.
The thing that annoys me most about Origi is that he seems a wimp. Doesn't fight for the high balls even with his physicality, doesn't try and take someone on even with his speed and skill set, and doesn't make constant runs across the back line even if he knows he won't get the ball (so he creates space for others).
He harries defenders but that's the bare minimum.
If he had the heart of say, Woodburn or Ings I'd have high hopes for him but I just can't see it working for him here.
He was meant to be an option and do was Ings. Not possible to say how many games you get with Suarez in the squad. Suddenly he bites🙂
Just keep him and see if he can make the breakthrough. Training with better players, familiarity with the style, teammates and expectations, etc. all work in favour of him and we can readily assess if he's good enough to be a reliable backup for 10 to 12 goals a season for us (or hopefully better), or at worst, a Welbeck clone whom we can move on for profit.
If any of our strikers needs to go on loan, it's Ings.
If any of our strikers needs to go on loan, it's Ings.
But we have hardly had a chance to see how he fits in and what level he is at, given the poor fucker's been permanently injured
I'd like to see him given the sort of opportunities Origi has been afforded before we send him anywhere
Assuming he can get back to the required level
I don't disagree, but come summer and you build a squad and have probably shipped Sturridge on and brought in a Lacazette or similar. It is a tough call to base the back up for a tough long season on Ings. Then Origi is a safer bet.
I'm not saying we could rely on Ings. I have no clue. Just that he deserves a chance and we shouldn't send him on loan
I dont get it.
Give it to him jason. He doesn't get your schtick Oncy, you big git.
I would loan out Origi (to an English team only) and keep Ings. I get the concern about playing time, but, like Brendan said he deserves a chance, after waiting for 2 years. If he is sent away again, he won't even feel like a Liverpool player any more.
Ings should be ridiculously strong after two years of gym work 
Give him a go... at worst he adds some desire into the squad.
Give him a go... at worst he adds some desire into the squad.
Nobody wants to see Ings fail - but what are the chances he's ready to play competitive football by the time the summer transfer window shuts? He isn't even kicking a ball in May. How can he be running circles around Origi in August to convince Klopp that he should stay and Origi should go on loan instead? Okay, maybe he just needs to be less shit than Origi.
When Ings came back from his injury the first time round, Klopp took him to the pre-season tour if I recall correctly, then had him playing for 3 months with the U23s, as well as 20-odd minutes in 2 League Cup games. Then his knee blew out (again, in October). So this time round, we could perhaps expect more of the same. Or maybe even more, because he's missed so much football and Klopp might want to be extra careful with that.
So we can't plan our summer window with Ings as part of the forward line. If we also take Origi out and Sturridge out, that leaves a lot of missing bodies and we have to fill those gaps. By the time Ings is ready, we should already have a stable/trusted rotation in place. So I think the best we can do for both club and player, is to get him back in shape in the first half of the season, and then send him out on loan in the winter window so he can get competitive games on a regular basis. If it means he needs to drop a level to the Championship to get guaranteed games, we should do that. Just try to get him playing 20 games and see how he goes.
Look, I have sympathy for him, but lots of the youngsters who don't or won't make it at the club have great attitude and desire too, but you need to hitch that to talent and fitness. Ings only ticks two of the three boxes right now.
And here's my harsh bitch act - I'm wary that he may not be ready to play for us at the level we need from him at least for another year if the examples of players with similar experiences are any indicator - see: Giuseppe Rossi, Jay Rodriguez, Michael Essien.
When Ings came back from his injury the first time round, Klopp took him to the pre-season tour if I recall correctly, then had him playing for 3 months with the U23s, as well as 20-odd minutes in 2 League Cup games. Then his knee blew out (again, in October). So this time round, we could perhaps expect more of the same. Or maybe even more, because he's missed so much football and Klopp might want to be extra careful with that.
So we can't plan our summer window with Ings as part of the forward line. If we also take Origi out and Sturridge out, that leaves a lot of missing bodies and we have to fill those gaps. By the time Ings is ready, we should already have a stable/trusted rotation in place. So I think the best we can do for both club and player, is to get him back in shape in the first half of the season, and then send him out on loan in the winter window so he can get competitive games on a regular basis. If it means he needs to drop a level to the Championship to get guaranteed games, we should do that. Just try to get him playing 20 games and see how he goes.
Look, I have sympathy for him, but lots of the youngsters who don't or won't make it at the club have great attitude and desire too, but you need to hitch that to talent and fitness. Ings only ticks two of the three boxes right now.
And here's my harsh bitch act - I'm wary that he may not be ready to play for us at the level we need from him at least for another year if the examples of players with similar experiences are any indicator - see: Giuseppe Rossi, Jay Rodriguez, Michael Essien.
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