• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Watford - Post Match

Forums Unread posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
It definitely is a confidence thing. On loads of occasions last night he laid the ball off – sometimes ingeniously – rather than ever trying to roll the defender or find that yard of space to take a shot on (something Studge did within a few minutes of coming on). That's why I commented he seems to have forgotten he's meant to be a striker. He actually did lots of decent things last night in the second half (in the first, he did practically nothing), but too little of it was threatening their goal or unnerving their defenders.
 
Rosco said:
'Talent' is this vague concept with no basis in reality. Its a phrase trotted out when you can't point to a specific reason you think someone will succeed.
Click to expand...

Insig pointed out Origi is strong, fast, has a trick up his sleeve, can take on players, can score goals. He therefore has the talent. The point being that the talent is not enough, it needs to be nurtured and developed. Players will need confidence and work on the talent to develop it. If a player doesn't make it, it doesn't necessarily mean he didn't have the talent to begin with or there was something missing in the evaluation.
 
Atlas said:
Insig pointed out Origi is strong, fast, has a trick up his sleeve, can take on players, can score goals. He therefore has the talent. The point being that the talent is not enough, it needs to be nurtured and developed. Players will need confidence and work on the talent to develop it. If a player doesn't make it, it doesn't necessarily mean he didn't have the talent to begin with or there was something missing in the evaluation.
Click to expand...

So is Origi a world class talent ?

Was he one in December ?
 
Rosco said:
See, i think your post is indicative of a few problems that football has. If you're evaluating a player it has to be done in specifics.

'Talent' is this vague concept with no basis in reality. Its a phrase trotted out when you can't point to a specific reason you think someone will succeed.

If a player doesn't make it, we should be looking back at what it was we missed when evaluating. Not engaging in this falacy where we convince ourselves a player is great talent(by ignoring the specifics), then when he fails we fall back on the lazy excuse like above.

If Janusjaz was talented he'd be playing for a decent club. Those who were lauding his 'talent' need to go back and look at why they mistook him for a good Premiership player.
Click to expand...

I'll just agree to disagree. I mean a player that at young age shows enough of football to establish himself at international level With strong team like Belgium in this case is a talent. If he develops into an all time great for the same country remain to be seen. If he doesn't it can be many reasons for it. Hunger to succeed, injuries, social problems etc etc. There is no guarantees that a good talent take you all the way. But With us he is given the opportunity to make the most of his talent. And With hard work and dedication he might be a future number 1 striker for us.
 
If you call someone a world class talent in one post and then in the next say one day he might be good enough to start for us .... i'm not really sure what i can say.

He may well be good enough to play regularly for us in the future, but its hardly a sure thing (which it would be if he had world class talent)
 
Insignificance said:
I'll just agree to disagree. I mean a player that at young age shows enough of football to establish himself at international level With strong team like Belgium in this case is a talent. If he develops into an all time great for the same country remain to be seen. If he doesn't it can be many reasons for it. Hunger to succeed, injuries, social problems etc etc. There is no guarantees that a good talent take you all the way. But With us he is given the opportunity to make the most of his talent. And With hard work and dedication he might be a future number 1 striker for us.
Click to expand...

I like Origi but that's a bit of an exaggeration unless you equate making the squad with establishing yourself at international level.
 
He was shite last night and has been most of the season. He lacks the natural instinct and aggression to be a top level striker. Ryan summed it up well and he's completely failed to take the opportunity handed him.
 
Insignificance said:
He has got 23 international games at the age of 21. That is established in my eyes.
Click to expand...

I think thats a fair statement.

But is international football a good indicator of anything in our context? Its a lower standard overall than the Premiership.
 
Rosco said:
I think thats a fair statement.

But is international football a good indicator of anything in our context? Its a lower standard overall than the Premiership.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we obviously need better to lead our line than him at the moment. We also needed better than his competitor Benteke. Still Belgium is rated quite high on the international ratings. So it is not neccesary a good indicator in our context.
 
doctor_mac said:
It definitely is a confidence thing. On loads of occasions last night he laid the ball off – sometimes ingeniously – rather than ever trying to roll the defender or find that yard of space to take a shot on (something Studge did within a few minutes of coming on). That's why I commented he seems to have forgotten he's meant to be a striker. He actually did lots of decent things last night in the second half (in the first, he did practically nothing), but too little of it was threatening their goal or unnerving their defenders.
Click to expand...

Exactly this for me too. His confidence seems to be fluctuating unpredictably from game to game, reminds me a bit of Sterling in his first full season here – however Sterling was 18 at the time and Origi just turned 22. In his defence, centre-forwards usually mature at an older age than AMs and wingers; it takes more experience and football know-how to lead the line and finish chances consistently – a skill that eludes Sterling to the present day BTW. I really think a season loan to a lower table EPL club next season would be the best thing for his development – this will help him to mature as a player and as a person.
 
Insignificance said:
He has got 23 international games at the age of 21. That is established in my eyes.
Click to expand...

I think about a quarter of those are starts - maybe one or two more - and those are spread over four seasons. The rest of the time he made the match day squad he was either an unused sub or subbed on in the second half.

Is that really established? I don't know.

And besides, he's got a lot of games for us at Liverpool. Would you say he's established here? It's hard to argue that he is.
 
rurikbird said:
Exactly this for me too. His confidence seems to be fluctuating unpredictably from game to game, reminds me a bit of Sterling in his first full season here – however Sterling was 18 at the time and Origi just turned 22. In his defence, strikers usually mature at an older age than AMs; it takes more experience to lead the line and finish chances consistently – a skill that eludes Sterling to the present day BTW. I really think a season loan to a lower table EPL club next season would be the best thing for his development – this will help him to mature as a player and as a person.
Click to expand...

The confidence thing was picked up really early on - he often looks pretty timid and seems to lack the arrogance and killer instinct that the top players have to match their raw talent.

Maybe he moved to a big club too early. He seemed to thrive being the main man for a period last season before he got injured but this year it's all gone pear shaped for some reason.

A season's loan could be a good idea but in the PL there is the danger that he moves to a club that ends up "lumping it to the big man", which will do nothing for him in the long run.
 
Rafa Benitez will totally love Origi....he is defi his type of striker. The kind that does not score...

Memories of Crouch comes rushing to me...

So loan him to Newcastle next season..
 
keniget said:
The confidence thing was picked up really early on - he often looks pretty timid and seems to lack the arrogance and killer instinct that the top players have to match their raw talent.

Maybe he moved to a big club too early. He seemed to thrive being the main man for a period last season before he got injured but this year it's all gone pear shaped for some reason.

A season's loan could be a good idea but in the PL there is the danger that he moves to a club that ends up "lumping it to the big man", which will do nothing for him in the long run.
Click to expand...

It has to be the right club and manager. Watford and Mazzari would be pretty good, actually – provided that they want him. Maybe Rafa at Newcastle – he's good at simplifying players' games. If we find the right team and manager who likes him, I would loan him out without any preconditions in terms of % of games started etc – just sink-or-swim, let him show whether he has the character to win a competition for a position.
 
Last edited:
That chance at the end - oh lord.

Anyway. it's in our own hands. Can't ask for better than that
 
rurikbird said:
It has to be the right club and manager. Watford and Mazzari would be pretty good, actually – provided that they want him. Maybe Rafa at Newcastle – he's good at simplifying players' games. If we find the right team and manager who likes him, I would loan him out without any preconditions in terms of % of games started etc – just sink-or-swim, let him show if he has the character to win a competition for a position.
Click to expand...

I agree, but that probably wont happen given the fact that Sturridge will leave and nobody knows what we'll get from Ings next season.
With European footy we'll play a lot more games next.

It will probably be sink or swim at Liverpool, even though a loan move would make sense.
 
StevieM said:
He is a talent with the potential to be world class.

Does that definition suit you better?
Click to expand...

I missed this earlier.

It can be argued that every young has the potential to be world class. What percentage chance would you give Origi ?
 
I do wonder how much of Klopp there is in Divock.
Hes all over the place but in the box. And potentially thats one of the reasons Klopp doesnt like Sturridge because he doesnt run all over the place.
 
Hansern said:
Seeing as I'm not working as a scout or recommend any potential signings to any football clubs, that isn't something I'm very concerned about. Its just my opinion on a football forum, which doesnt really count for much or matter to anyone.

If Ross McNugget from Ireland don't agree with me or think my scouting skills are poor. Well, guess what. I couldn't care less and I doubt anyone else does either.
Click to expand...

Lol at Ross McNugget
 
As a bye the way.
Weren't the match officials awful.
The lino called a couple of wrong offsides for Watford as well as giving a throw in when he was responsible for keeping the ball in play.
The ref missed a clear save by Mignolet, awarding a kick out and failed to sanction numerous Deeney indiscretions most notable when he totally barged through Firmino late on in the game when he was protecting the ball close to the corner flag
 
the count said:
As a bye the way.
Weren't the match officials awful.
The lino called a couple of wrong offsides for Watford as well as giving a throw in when he was responsible for keeping the ball in play.
The ref missed a clear save by Mignolet, awarding a kick out and failed to sanction numerous Deeney indiscretions most notable when he totally barged through Firmino late on in the game when he was protecting the ball close to the corner flag
Click to expand...

Yeah, I said this in the match thread aswell. Pawson was awful. It was both ways mind...
 
Oncy said:
I do wonder how much of Klopp there is in Divock.
Hes all over the place but in the box. And potentially thats one of the reasons Klopp doesnt like Sturridge because he doesnt run all over the place.
Click to expand...

I think Klopp likes Sturridge. However he is frustrated that he can't count in him. Klopp likes his team to prepare for matches during the training sessions and he likes his players to be fit for high pressing game. Sturridge started games in the beginning of the season but when he wasn't to be counted on he turned to Firmino. Origi wasn't even the preffered choice after he scored 4 or 5 games in a row.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Brizzle
    • Like
Pre Match Pre Match - Man City (H) - Sun 16:00
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
Replies
674
Views
11K
rubans
rubans
rurikbird
    • Like
Quansah
2 3
Replies
67
Views
1K
bluebell
bluebell
Whaddapie
    • Like
Just me, or...?
Replies
7
Views
233
moron
moron
Modo
    • Like
A new CB?
2
Replies
48
Views
850
moron
moron
localny
Defensive Fragility
Replies
11
Views
280
Modo
Modo
Back
Top Bottom