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United post-match

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Sturridge is trying his damndest to adjust to this system & is spending a LOT of time tracking back & pressing (ok, trying to press, but failing most of the time).

Thing is he's not very good at it though. It's not even remotely his natural game, & it's stifling his ability to run off the shoulder of the defender almost completely, so he's rarely in the positions he normally scores from.

When he is he doesn't seem quite as sharp. Whether that's injury related or not I'm not sure, but I know athletes of any kind train one way to promote explosive pace from their muscles, & another to get their bodies trained for long distance & time events. I wonder if that pace is being stolen because he's training to cover distance for ninety minutes as opposed to burst of explosive pace.

As for the game, I'm not pissed off. I'm mildly annoyed, but after ten or fifteen minutes I was convinced we'd be beaten.

Yeah its annoying cos we started to create chances second half & that Chelsea side are nothing special, but as I said in the match thread, Mourinho has beaten better sides than ours last night using the same anti-tactics.

it's a shame about the Studge but I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that he just may not be suited to Klopp's philosophy. He is indeed putting a real shift in and trying his best but, as you say, it blunts his edge up front. There's an obvious risk involved if we let him go to a club whose tactics suit him properly, but I'm being dragged kicking and screaming to the view that it's a risk we may have to take. And yes, we'd defo need a top class replacement.
 
Is Ings a more natural fit than Sturridge, I think he closes down better than Origi & Sturridge.

I would like to see him back on the bench soon surly he is nearing fitness he has had a few run outs for the u23's.
I was thinking this whilst watching the game; Ings is very much a Klopp-type of player and works his bollox off to win the ball back from opposition player, I hope he gets a chance to try and prove he deserves a place in the team. Hopefully he'll get a chance in the League Cup game v Spurs.
 
To anyone at the match last night, what was the atmosphere like? It sounded very flat watching on TV which surprised me.

To me it sounded like Tyler and Neville were sat in a studio not in the gantry. I thought the sound was very off.
 
Is Ings a more natural fit than Sturridge, I think he closes down better than Origi & Sturridge.

I would like to see him back on the bench soon surly he is nearing fitness he has had a few run outs for the u23's.
Possibly both Ings and Origi (again showed excellent close control when he came on yesterday) are a better fit than Studge, both now faster and get more actively involved and both better pressers. Sturridge is getting in the team on reputation alone at the moment because I doubt either of the others could have been worse over most of this season when Sturridge has played (he had one excellent game without scoring if I remember correctly). Sadly I think the Sturridge we know and loved has long gone.
 
it's a shame about the Studge but I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that he just may not be suited to Klopp's philosophy. He is indeed putting a real shift in and trying his best but, as you say, it blunts his edge up front. There's an obvious risk involved if we let him go to a club whose tactics suit him properly, but I'm being dragged kicking and screaming to the view that it's a risk we may have to take. And yes, we'd defo need a top class replacement.

It doesn't help that he always looks as if he is trying to catch the eye with a fancy flick or a bit of skill when a lot of the time the simple pass would be easier. It is as if he needs affirmation of his brilliance all the time. I am sure if he accepted he doesn't have to be the main man and assists are as worthy as goals he could adapt given time. Whether his ego would allow that is debatable.
 
Sturridge was a waste of space last night. His pressing or lack of it really affected the rest of the team and the difference between his effort and desire versus Firmino is ridiculous. If we are going to press the other team it has to start with the centre forward and too many times he didn't bother at all or made a token half hearted effort. His pace has gone and he just drifts around without doing anything. Have you ever seen another centre forward who spends so little time in the opposition box when their team is attacking.
For all the obvious displeasure he showed when not playing more he's done absolutely nothing with the opportunity. Danny Ings must be wondering what he has to do to get a chance when he sees such insipid performances from Sturridge.
Oh and Emre Can is a big tart and Karius so far has been a flappy twat.
 
Bleurghhhh! What a shit, disappointing, pissed-on firework of a game. So much promise, so little delivery.

It would be easy to "blame" Mourinho, but fuck that. He selected the right team to nullify our strengths, and they were the better side in the first half, in which we looked anaemic and nervous. We were better in the second half, but we still only managed 3 shots on target.

We didn't play well enough. That's all. We had no answer to how United set up - strangling space in front of their defence and not allowing Milner or Clyne to attack. Herrera was dominating midfield, and Henderson and the dreadful Can sat too deep, and moved the ball too slowly. Sturridge was entirely isolated, and Mane kept running infield to escape the attentions of Blind and Young.

On the plus side, we kept a clean sheet at last, and I do think that maybe my prediction of 6th was pessimistic; we will be fighting United, Chelsea and Everton for a Top 4 spot, and United are just three points behind, so a draw isn't TOO bad.

It's pretty clear that City, Spurs and Arsenal are going to be the Top 3, so it's going to be tight.

Karius (5) Yes, his kicking is crisper and more accurate than Mignolet. But then everyone knew that already. My biggest fear was his antipathy to the high ball into the box, and lack of ability to actually catch anything, ever. Sadly, those fears are entirely accurate. It's like he has a fucking eppy as soon as the ball is delivered at any kind of height into the area. He was lucky twice not to concede. Yuck.

Clyne (6) As usual an A for effort, and he worked so hard. But he didn't have Mane to help offensively, as the Senegalese was often infield, leaving Clyne with limited options.

Matip (7) Lost his man once or twice, but he was generally calm and assured, and his use of the ball was decent

Lovren (7) Some wild clearances, but his more agricultural style of late has made him a better defender; some good interceptions and headers

Milner (6) Skinned once or twice, but diligent as ever against the quick and dangerous Rashford. Didn't get forward as much as he would have liked, and lacked the pace to get beyond Valencia.

Henderson (6) Dropped so, so deep on occasion, trying to get some space and time. Worked hard as ever, but his passing was occasionally rushed and he reverted back to safety. He's never going to be what you'd call "inspirational" but you can't knock his effort.

Can (5) A lumbering disaster area for the first 30 minutes, he slowly (obviously) improved, and started using his presence and physicality better. One decent effort, but his lack of mobility and tendency to want too long and too many touches on the ball was frustrating.

Coutinho (7) Good contest with Herrera, and didn't shy away from contact. Drove forward whenever he could, and had one lovely trademark shot from distance well saved

Mane (5) Got frustrated with the lack of space out wide, and spent large portions of the game more central, but was too often careless with the ball and couldn't find a way through.

Firmino (6) Didn't do much in the first half, but got through a lot of "busy work" without threatening. Better when allowed to drift more central, but obvious lack of pace showed on two occasions which a quicker forward would have capitalised on. Decent header.

Sturridge (4) He was totally on his own at times, and so came deep and went wide to get on the ball, but could do little with it. Where is the pace and acceleration? The goal threat? Playing himself out of the side, sadly.
 
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Plus: We kept a clean sheet and got a point from a traditionally tough game. We didn't lose. We were the more frustrated with a nil nil, which goes some way to proving our expectations versus theirs, and no one got injured or sent off. Win against the baggies and it's all good. We've navigated an extremely tough start well and are in the picture up near the top.

Negs: Maureen has been serving up this turgid park the bus shite for over a decade and yet we still had no idea how to break through it. First half the player's touch and passing was abysmal. We allowed the media to continue their sickening Maureen narrative, when we had a chance to really heap the pressure on him. Fans inside the game were taking photos on their phone of the United manager, seriously, fucking daytripping cunts.
 
Our fans were taking photos of fucking Mourinho? Fuck me.

Tbf I think if we had a deeper squad, or hadn't suffered both Lallana & Winaljdum bring out, that game would have looked quite different. Another factor is the international break. Games following the break are often tricky as fuck for everyone, momentum is lost & players aren't in the same head space they were either. The unpredictable results this weekend prove that.

Provided we can continue to find that form & momentum again against the 'lesser' sides this result won't seem so bad at all.
 
Sturridge is trying his damndest to adjust to this system & is spending a LOT of time tracking back & pressing (ok, trying to press, but failing most of the time).

Thing is he's not very good at it though. It's not even remotely his natural game, & it's stifling his ability to run off the shoulder of the defender almost completely, so he's rarely in the positions he normally scores from.

When he is he doesn't seem quite as sharp. Whether that's injury related or not I'm not sure, but I know athletes of any kind train one way to promote explosive pace from their muscles, & another to get their bodies trained for long distance & time events. I wonder if that pace is being stolen because he's training to cover distance for ninety minutes as opposed to burst of explosive pace.

As for the game, I'm not pissed off. I'm mildly annoyed, but after ten or fifteen minutes I was convinced we'd be beaten.

Yeah its annoying cos we started to create chances second half & that Chelsea side are nothing special, but as I said in the match thread, Mourinho has beaten better sides than ours last night using the same anti-tactics.
Totally agree. Saw him tracking back a few times during the game but he was never as effective as Firmino.
Also, I think there's a place for Studge in certain games. This wasn't it though.
He didn't have a chance against the 6 defenders they had surrounding him.
They didn't give him a chance to turn.
 
It's pretty clear that City, Spurs and Arsenal are going to be the Top 3, so it's going to be tight.

The rest of your post is spot on, but how on earth did you arrive at this point? We're only two points behind the three above, despite having played a much tougher set of fixtures, having beaten one of them at their home ground, and having drawn whilst being the far better side against the other, all whilst having a superior goal difference, and generally looking more convincing. Outside of pessimism there is little reason to suggest that we won't be up there with those three teams, in fact the evidences suggests that we should be, I'm not saying we're going to win the league, but suggesting the top three is a foregone conclusion is silly.
 
Plus: We kept a clean sheet and got a point from a traditionally tough game. We didn't lose. We were the more frustrated with a nil nil, which goes some way to proving our expectations versus theirs, and no one got injured or sent off. Win against the baggies and it's all good. We've navigated an extremely tough start well and are in the picture up near the top.

Negs: Maureen has been serving up this turgid park the bus shite for over a decade and yet we still had no idea how to break through it. First half the player's touch and passing was abysmal. We allowed the media to continue their sickening Maureen narrative, when we had a chance to really heap the pressure on him. Fans inside the game were taking photos on their phone of the United manager, seriously, fucking daytripping cunts.

I hope this is correct. Milner & Firmino are worries, although Firmino may have just been cramp after all the travel.
 
To anyone at the match last night, what was the atmosphere like? It sounded very flat watching on TV which surprised me.

It was shite. Worst atmosphere against them cunts Ive ever witnessed.

Surprising because I think everyone would have had a few pints beforehand. The team just didnt get us going. Vice versa with the fans of course.
 
I'm not ready to give up on Sturridge yet but it's become so obvious that he isn't a target player. Last night he just didn't provide the outlet we needed upfront. Someone who could hold the ball and help our midfield get forward. It's very disappointing and whatever understanding he had with Coutinho seems to be long gone.

Or maybe we're all quick to judge him. Maybe it's all about form.
 
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The rest of your post is spot on, but how on earth did you arrive at this point? We're only two points behind the three above, despite having played a much tougher set of fixtures, having beaten one of them at their home ground, and having drawn whilst being the far better side against the other, all whilst having a superior goal difference, and generally looking more convincing. Outside of pessimism there is little reason to suggest that we won't be up there with those three teams, in fact the evidences suggests that we should be, I'm not saying we're going to win the league, but suggesting the top three is a foregone conclusion is silly.

Those teams seem better than us, and always finish above us. So I was taking a guess based on recent history about where they will finish.

Of course, it would be great if we did manage to finish above City, Arsenal and Spurs, but sadly we usually don't.

I suspect the bigger battle will be between "the rest" which includes us, United, Everton and Chelsea.
 
Those teams seem better than us, and always finish above us. So I was taking a guess based on recent history about where they will finish.

Of course, it would be great if we did manage to finish above City, Arsenal and Spurs, but sadly we usually don't.

I suspect the bigger battle will be between "the rest" which includes us, United, Everton and Chelsea.

Asides from City, they haven't seemed better than us this season, that's the point. They all still have the champions league to contend with, and I can see that being a major factor this season. To put it in context, we drew with United and all of a sudden we aren't top three material, yet Spurs drew with West Brom and they are, strange, the evidence this season suggests that we'll be right up there, and the draw yesterday doesn't change that.
 
I know this is the time to show some maturity, consider the lads age, allow a bedding in period, etc, etc - but Karius just looks.....well, a bit shit doesn't he?

He'll undoubtedly improve somewhat with coaching and exposure to the first team, but is anyone seeing signs of a high quality keeper with just a few flaws that need ironing out? Aside from getting some award in the bundesliga, what is everyone putting their faith in?
 
With regards to the question of whether Sturridge fits into the way Klopp wants to play - is it the case that he's just adapting at the moment so is going to take a while until he can fit in (and therefore is going to look ropey for a while, or at least patchy)?

If, however, he's just not going to fit, does that mean long-term we'd need to bring someone else in, or do we play Firmino there and look at the players around him?
 
I know this is the time to show some maturity, consider the lads age, allow a bedding in period, etc, etc - but Karius just looks.....well, a bit shit doesn't he?

He'll undoubtedly improve somewhat with coaching and exposure to the first team, but is anyone seeing signs of a high quality keeper with just a few flaws that need ironing out? Aside from getting some award in the bundesliga, what is everyone putting their faith in?


Hahahahahaha have you learned nothing?
 
Asides from City, they haven't seemed better than us this season, that's the point. They all still have the champions league to contend with, and I can see that being a major factor this season. To put it in context, we drew with United and all of a sudden we aren't top three material, yet Spurs drew with West Brom and they are, strange, the evidence this season suggests that we'll be right up there, and the draw yesterday doesn't change that.

It's not that wild an assumption to make though. Man City have the money, a great squad and a great manager. Spurs and Arsenal have settled top four teams/squads that have been improved (though in Arsenal's case, not that much) in the summer. And it's still early days for us. Last night doesn't change a great deal in terms of momentum or expectation, but it does show that we're still in a position where we could lose one or two players and our effectiveness drops sizably.
 
Those teams seem better than us, and always finish above us. So I was taking a guess based on recent history about where they will finish.

Of course, it would be great if we did manage to finish above City, Arsenal and Spurs, but sadly we usually don't.

I suspect the bigger battle will be between "the rest" which includes us, United, Everton and Chelsea.

*Always*
 
With regards to the question of whether Sturridge fits into the way Klopp wants to play - is it the case that he's just adapting at the moment so is going to take a while until he can fit in (and therefore is going to look ropey for a while, or at least patchy)?

If, however, he's just not going to fit, does that mean long-term we'd need to bring someone else in, or do we play Firmino there and look at the players around him?

He fits in as a second half substitute. When the team is too tired to press anymore and resort to taking hopeful long range shots, I'd rather they just pass the ball to Sturridge who actually has some hope of scoring.
 
Apparently touts were getting five hundred quid for tickets last night, paying four hundred for them.

I'm gonna make it my business to make half the cost of my season ticket back whenever we play a team managed by that utter cunt of a backassward soul destroying negative bellend from now on forever. Seriously, if that's football you can fucking keep it you fucking stinking manc fuckwads.
 
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