Transfer Rumours

[Judge Jules]

Your first statement was that 'cnutishness' is probably a necessity for teams to be successful.

Now you're trying to row back and say that it was simply that a person being a cunt doesn't automatically mean that they can not be an asset to a team. That's fine, but it's not what you said. Here, I'll prove it, AGAIN:

Unfortunate as it may be, an element of cnutishness is probably a necessity for teams to be consistently successful​

As to my point about the nature of the 'cnutishness' that you and Ryan were apparently implying was necessary, what else could it possibly be other than something that might be described as 'ruthless steel'? That's what we're talking about, isn't it? Being tough? Uncompromising? Win-at-all-costs? Or am I making wild leaps here? Does any definition of the word 'cunt' apply? Say, child molester? Corrupt politician? Obsequious toady? I think we both fucking know what you meant.

It's not as hard as you imagine. Admit you're wrong and I'll gladly drop the matter.

Sigh.

"Probably" means what it says. If that was what I definitely thought I'd have said so. It's a shame to see you falling victim to the tendency on here to insist that every argument be stated in extreme either/or terms. I don't always agree with you but I thought you had more about you than that.

As far as the nature of the "cnutishness" itself goes, Ryan will have to speak for himself but my post made it crystal clear that I was referring to cnutishness off the field. I did so because that was the specific basis for the posts saying their authors didn't want Cole.

Drop whatever you like, but better include that spade you keep digging with.

 

[Best Believe It]

This Moreno link is depressing me.

The alternative is Ryan Cunting Bertrand.

 

[Hansern]

Why? He is widely considered to be the best young Spanish LB. He is the 2nd youngest player in the Spain provisional WC squad behind Deulofeu and will probably be the youngest Spaniard on the plane to Brazil. One supposedly poor game (in a European Cup final - no big deal for a 21-year old) doesn't cancel out the reputation that was years in the making.

Well, thats the positive in the link. The negative is signing a defender whose biggest flaw is tackling. Its an aspect that Rodgers can work with obviously but it was concerning how easy he got ran past in the final. It was so easy it seemed like he didnt even try.

 

[Best Believe It]

Well, thats the positive in the link. The negative is signing a defender whose biggest flaw is tackling. Its an aspect that Rodgers can work with obviously but it was concerning how easy he got ran past in the final. It was so easy it seemed like he didnt even try.

I'm not defending the potential signing of Moreno, but how many full backs these days aren't flawed defensively? There seems to be much more of an emphasis on full backs providing width in attack these days, rather than priding them on their defensive prowess. People have been banging on about Luke Shaw because of how well he gets forward (I'm not saying he's poor defensively though) and a couple of years ago all the hype about Jordi Alba was due to the same. It's how they're valued these days.

The defensive element of the way Brendan seems to want to play I think is based more on the centre backs, pivot, and then general team pressing rather than a traditional 'back four', rightly or wrongly.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

Surely we could get somebody from abroad for cheaper

 

[Hansern]

I'm not defending the potential signing of Moreno, but how many full backs these days aren't flawed defensively? There seems to be much more of an emphasis on full backs providing width in attack these days, rather than priding them on their defensive prowess. People have been banging on about Luke Shaw because of how well he gets forward (I'm not saying he's poor defensively though) and a couple of years ago all the hype about Jordi Alba was due to the same. It's how they're valued these days.

The defensive element of the way Brendan seems to want to play I think is based more on the centre backs, pivot, and then general team pressing rather than a traditional 'back four', rightly or wrongly.

True, but the likes of Luke Shaw are much better defensively imho.
Moreno is very pacey and would offer the team a lot attacking wise but at the same time teams will be targeting our left side.

Dont understand why we're not after Rodriguez.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

I asked a Russian journalist who specializes in Spanish football about his opinion on Moreno. I also mentioned that some people said he was the worst Sevilla player in the EL final (I didn't see it from the beginning so can't comment). This is what he said (my translation):

He was Rurik, he was awful, everyone was in agreement on the thread on here that night, there wasn't any getting away from it, the Russian matey is talking out of his hoop there on that one.

You are right in what you say about one bad game shouldn't make a difference to his rep, hes obviously earned that rep from playing well and showing a lot of potential, if we do sign him then hopefully he will show us all why he is so highly rated.

 

[Mystic]

This looks freakishly similar to Rodgers.

 

[hmmmmm1]

I asked a Russian journalist who specializes in Spanish football about his opinion on Moreno. I also mentioned that some people said he was the worst Sevilla player in the EL final (I didn't see it from the beginning so can't comment). This is what he said (my translation):

This journalist looses all credibility with assessment of Moreno in the EL final.

It was truly dreadful performance.

(That is the only time I have seen him play).

 

[Frogfish]

Skrtel would look awesome with a full on beard, would be a bit like the bassist from Queens of the Stone Age.

Nah. He'd be a shoe-in for a place in the cast of The Vikings.

 

[JohnnyRocket]

Not sure if this is the right place to put this, but watching Atletico a few times over the last few months got me thinking. They essentially play a 4-4-2, which pretty much becomes a 4-2-2-2. Although Atletico's philosophy has a few differences to Rodgers, I wonder if he's looking at something like that.

Our strongest assets are Suarez and Sturridge. When you play a 4-3-3, one of them has to go wide. Not ideal, and I'm sure whoever has wide duty doesn't really enjoy it. Rodgers then played around with the diamond formation, and although it worked well, I'm not sure its a long term thing, due to the limitations of the system. In fact, when you go back and look at our results and performances last year, we were at our best in a normal 4-3-3 with Suarez coming in off the wide position. The 4-0 and 5-0 against Spurs, the 5-1 against Arsenal, the 4-0 against Everton were all standard 4-3-3. The diamond system served us well (first half against City, United away, Southampton away), but we never quite hit the same heights of performance. Rodgers clearly felt the need to have his two strongest weapons in their best position.

I recall at home to Fulham and Villa he tried a 4-4-2 / 4-2-2-2 system. Against Fulham we were great. Against Villa it was terrible. In my view down to a midfield of Gerrard and Henderson - both great players, but Henderson specifically isn't suited for that role.

But what if you could find a proper holding player to sit next to Gerrard, could rodgers be thinking along these lines - with the view to getting the best out of his best players (try to ignore 1st team / reserve etc):

Gerrard ????
Lallana Sterling
Suarez Sturridge



Allen Lucas
Henderson Coutinho
Borini ???

A solid base of 2 central midfielders, one of them a more ball playing one. Allowing the wide players the freedom to roam into the number 10 area and make it a fluid 4-2-2-2 when we have possession. Strokers with plenty of movement wide, into channels, deep. For me much more fluidity than the diamond formation.

This would explain the need for attacking full backs like Moreno.

 

[Glen C]

This journalist looses all credibility with assessment of Moreno in the EL final.

It was truly dreadful performance.

(That is the only time I have seen him play).

He was complete and utter dog turd that night. A poor mans insua. I've only seen him 3 times apart from that but everytime i've seen him play i've just thought 'i don't get the hype'. Seriously 20m for him? That would be worse than the 35m we paid for carroll. And what is it with fullbacks now where its seen that if you can defend its a bonus? You're meant to be a defender first and foremost FFS. If defending is secondary then why bother spunking a shit load of money on this turd when we can just look at any winger we have in our youth system and convert him into a fullback.

 

[Mystic]

Liverpool table £16million bid for Chelsea target Alberto Moreno

LIVERPOOL have offered £16m for Seville left-back Alberto Moreno and will also send youngster Suso on loan to the Spanish club as part of the deal.

By: Paul Joyce
Published: Thu, May 29, 2014

Liverpool have lodged a bid for Alberto Moreno[GETTY]
The highly-rated Moreno, 21, is one of a number of targets Liverpoool are trying to secure before the World Cup and Seville are considering the offer.
Manager Brendan Rodgers has shown interest in Chelsea's Ryan Bertrand, who spent the second half of last season on loan at Aston Villa, but the move for Moreno shows how the club has a range of options for each position they are looking to strengthen in.
Moreno is currently part of Spain's provisional World Cup squad and helped Seville win the Europa League last season.
Suso spent last term in La Liga with Almeria.
As well as Moreno, Liverpool have also made bids for Adam Lallana, Xherdan Shaqiri, Emre Can and Dejan Lovren.

Twitter reckons he's reliable, lets hope he's more reliable than their weather predictors.

 

[Frogfish]

Real fail with €65m Pogba bid.
Juventus are negotiating terms with Real Madrid over Paul Pogba, demanding a player, while Barcelona make three bids for new central defenders.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

That price is why Pogba was never an option for us, Huge lol at the Mancs though, what a terrible terrible mistake.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

There was a link earlier on the old BBC Gossip column saying Madrid want Aguero for 60 mill.

 

[Hansern]

Barrett confirming the Moreno bid.

Also says Lallana has his heart set on a move to Anfield.

 

[Rosco]

Not sure if this is the right place to put this, but watching Atletico a few times over the last few months got me thinking. They essentially play a 4-4-2, which pretty much becomes a 4-2-2-2. Although Atletico's philosophy has a few differences to Rodgers, I wonder if he's looking at something like that.

Our strongest assets are Suarez and Sturridge. When you play a 4-3-3, one of them has to go wide. Not ideal, and I'm sure whoever has wide duty doesn't really enjoy it. Rodgers then played around with the diamond formation, and although it worked well, I'm not sure its a long term thing, due to the limitations of the system. In fact, when you go back and look at our results and performances last year, we were at our best in a normal 4-3-3 with Suarez coming in off the wide position. The 4-0 and 5-0 against Spurs, the 5-1 against Arsenal, the 4-0 against Everton were all standard 4-3-3. The diamond system served us well (first half against City, United away, Southampton away), but we never quite hit the same heights of performance. Rodgers clearly felt the need to have his two strongest weapons in their best position.

I recall at home to Fulham and Villa he tried a 4-4-2 / 4-2-2-2 system. Against Fulham we were great. Against Villa it was terrible. In my view down to a midfield of Gerrard and Henderson - both great players, but Henderson specifically isn't suited for that role.

But what if you could find a proper holding player to sit next to Gerrard, could rodgers be thinking along these lines - with the view to getting the best out of his best players (try to ignore 1st team / reserve etc):

Gerrard ????
Lallana Sterling
Suarez Sturridge



Allen Lucas
Henderson Coutinho
Borini ???

A solid base of 2 central midfielders, one of them a more ball playing one. Allowing the wide players the freedom to roam into the number 10 area and make it a fluid 4-2-2-2 when we have possession. Strokers with plenty of movement wide, into channels, deep. For me much more fluidity than the diamond formation.

This would explain the need for attacking full backs like Moreno.

Well done.

You've wasted a well thought out post in the worst thread on the site.

 

[Fabio]

Someone not on their phone copy and paste that in to a new thread

 

[Rosco]

Barrett confirming the Moreno bid.

Also says Lallana has his heart set on a move to Anfield.

And this is the perfect example of why it's the worst thread on the site.

Barrett did not confirm any bid. He said Marca are reporting one.

Can you not even get that fucking right?

 

[Best Believe It]

And this is the perfect example of why it's the worst thread on the site.

Barrett did not confirm any bid. He said Marca are reporting one.

Can you not even get that fucking right?

Barrett has confirmed it in the Times.

 

[cloggypop]

No mention of Marca there

 

[Mystic]

And this is the perfect example of why it's the worst thread on the site.

Barrett did not confirm any bid. He said Marca are reporting one.

Can you not even get that fucking right?

No mention of Marca there

For you, you condescending arse.

 

[JohnnyRocket]

Well done.

You've wasted a well thought out post in the worst thread on the site.

So that's why no one's replied

 

[superchimp]

SSN on it now..16m +suso loan

 

[Mors]

Oh dear, humble pie time lol

 

[StevieM]

Ross will just ignore the thread now - like the one Dreamie handed him his arse in.

 

[Red Bird]

The alternative is Ryan Cunting Bertrand.

No, it would Ryan He Who Once Played Under Rodgers Bertrand.

 

[localny]

That oussadi article was such bad journalism. Staggering $7M DEMANDED. Firstly, it sounds market value to me. Secondly, the demanded thing is designed to be a little partisan don't you think?

 

[Judge Jules]

Interesting snippet from Tony Evans on TalkSport this morning. If he's to be believed (and I do say "if", because this is the man who had us sold off to the Chinese) Brendan wanted a CB last January and it was others (presumably the transfer committee) who decided to go chasing after Konoplyanka. We definitely do not need them and the manager pulling in different directions.