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Too soon to call for Rafa's head?

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[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017912#msg1017912 date=1261239509]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017895#msg1017895 date=1261238831]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017891#msg1017891 date=1261238701]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017889#msg1017889 date=1261238565]
Laurent Blanc
[/quote]

Thats probably one of the only decent (and realistic) shouts yet.

Still it would be a big gamble.
[/quote]

What's wrong with a gamble ?

We're clearly onto a loser with Benitez. I'd rather have a fighting chance.
[/quote]

Because there is a strong possability that he'll turn out to be a lesser manager than the one we currently have.

You can slate Rafa all you like, but he's still obviously a very good manager and amongst the best about (his record proves that without a doubt). It won't be easy to replace him with someone that turns out to be better.

It's a good shout but still a huge risk, and one that i'd be reluctant to take.
[/quote]

How is he obviously still a good manager ?

He's taken a side that finished second in the league last year and turned them into a midtable one in a short space of time. He can't motivate the squad, he can't get the balance of the team right.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017889#msg1017889 date=1261238565]
Laurent Blanc
[/quote]

You and I both know he's going to Inter.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=38006.msg1017926#msg1017926 date=1261240142]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017889#msg1017889 date=1261238565]
Laurent Blanc
[/quote]

You and I both know he's going to Inter.
[/quote]

Yup. Nailed on.

But he hasn't signed a deal with them yet.
 
Roy Hodgson is actually a great shout from earlier in this thread.

Works on a strict budget and has his team punching well above their weight, while playing decent football.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017925#msg1017925 date=1261240098]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017912#msg1017912 date=1261239509]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017895#msg1017895 date=1261238831]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017891#msg1017891 date=1261238701]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017889#msg1017889 date=1261238565]
Laurent Blanc
[/quote]

Thats probably one of the only decent (and realistic) shouts yet.

Still it would be a big gamble.
[/quote]

What's wrong with a gamble ?

We're clearly onto a loser with Benitez. I'd rather have a fighting chance.
[/quote]

Because there is a strong possability that he'll turn out to be a lesser manager than the one we currently have.

You can slate Rafa all you like, but he's still obviously a very good manager and amongst the best about (his record proves that without a doubt). It won't be easy to replace him with someone that turns out to be better.

It's a good shout but still a huge risk, and one that i'd be reluctant to take.
[/quote]

How is he obviously still a good manager ?


[/quote]

Look at his career record and you'll find the answer to that for yourself.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017815#msg1017815 date=1261236799]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017810#msg1017810 date=1261236734]
This "not got a pot to piss in" thing.
Does anyone think the owners are that fucking thick that they would not protect their investment by not bringing in a top manager and giving him money.


regards
[/quote]

Thats exactly what you said in the summer.
[/quote]



This is a little more scary than some old cunt wildly speculating that if we did not get some cover for Torres we might be fucked.
Make no mistake the yanks will be shitting their pants right now.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017953#msg1017953 date=1261241021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017815#msg1017815 date=1261236799]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017810#msg1017810 date=1261236734]
This "not got a pot to piss in" thing.
Does anyone think the owners are that fucking thick that they would not protect their investment by not bringing in a top manager and giving him money.


regards
[/quote]

Thats exactly what you said in the summer.
[/quote]



This is a little more scary than some old cunt wildly speculating that if we did not get some cover for Torres we might be fucked.
Make no mistake the yanks will be shitting their pants right now.


[/quote]

I agree Vlad, they will be.

I still don't think that those two cunts will put in any money in January though.

If they hadn't been "that fucking thick" in the summer, then maybe we wouldn't be in this position now.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017938#msg1017938 date=1261240500]
Roy Hodgson is actually a great shout from earlier in this thread.

Works on a strict budget and has his team punching well above their weight, while playing decent football.
[/quote]

i made that call not based on today's result against the scum but based on his level head and knowing how to get the best from very avarage players he has to work with.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017956#msg1017956 date=1261241279]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017953#msg1017953 date=1261241021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017815#msg1017815 date=1261236799]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017810#msg1017810 date=1261236734]
This "not got a pot to piss in" thing.
Does anyone think the owners are that fucking thick that they would not protect their investment by not bringing in a top manager and giving him money.


regards
[/quote]

Thats exactly what you said in the summer.
[/quote]



This is a little more scary than some old cunt wildly speculating that if we did not get some cover for Torres we might be fucked.
Make no mistake the yanks will be shitting their pants right now.


[/quote]

I agree Vlad, they will be.

I still don't think that those two cunts will put in any money in January though.

If they hadn't been "that fucking thick" in the summer, then maybe we wouldn't be in this position now.
[/quote]

Our net spend during the summer: 2m. Our Gross Spend - 38m (?)
United's net spend: - 60m. United's Gross Spend: 20m.

Yet they are still in the top two while we're in midtable.

The owners haven't helped us but our biggest problem is where the money we spent went. On a midfielder that's never fit and a defender that doesn't defend.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017951#msg1017951 date=1261240952]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017925#msg1017925 date=1261240098]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017912#msg1017912 date=1261239509]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017895#msg1017895 date=1261238831]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017891#msg1017891 date=1261238701]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017889#msg1017889 date=1261238565]
Laurent Blanc
[/quote]

Thats probably one of the only decent (and realistic) shouts yet.

Still it would be a big gamble.
[/quote]

What's wrong with a gamble ?

We're clearly onto a loser with Benitez. I'd rather have a fighting chance.
[/quote]

Because there is a strong possability that he'll turn out to be a lesser manager than the one we currently have.

You can slate Rafa all you like, but he's still obviously a very good manager and amongst the best about (his record proves that without a doubt). It won't be easy to replace him with someone that turns out to be better.

It's a good shout but still a huge risk, and one that i'd be reluctant to take.
[/quote]

How is he obviously still a good manager ?


[/quote]

Look at his career record and you'll find the answer to that for yourself.




[/quote]

In La Liga, definitely
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017956#msg1017956 date=1261241279]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017953#msg1017953 date=1261241021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017815#msg1017815 date=1261236799]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017810#msg1017810 date=1261236734]
This "not got a pot to piss in" thing.
Does anyone think the owners are that fucking thick that they would not protect their investment by not bringing in a top manager and giving him money.


regards
[/quote]

Thats exactly what you said in the summer.
[/quote]



This is a little more scary than some old cunt wildly speculating that if we did not get some cover for Torres we might be fucked.
Make no mistake the yanks will be shitting their pants right now.


[/quote]

I agree Vlad, they will be.

I still don't think that those two cunts will put in any money in January though.

If they hadn't been "that fucking thick" in the summer, then maybe we wouldn't be in this position now.
[/quote]

I am still not convinced that Rafa was not complicit in the summer spendings and dealings.
Is it too much fantasy to suggest that Rafa made a deal that he would get by with the squad he had as long as he signed all his players up to long term deals - at the expense of a striker?

regards
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017967#msg1017967 date=1261241835]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017956#msg1017956 date=1261241279]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017953#msg1017953 date=1261241021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017815#msg1017815 date=1261236799]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017810#msg1017810 date=1261236734]
This "not got a pot to piss in" thing.
Does anyone think the owners are that fucking thick that they would not protect their investment by not bringing in a top manager and giving him money.


regards
[/quote]

Thats exactly what you said in the summer.
[/quote]



This is a little more scary than some old cunt wildly speculating that if we did not get some cover for Torres we might be fucked.
Make no mistake the yanks will be shitting their pants right now.


[/quote]

I agree Vlad, they will be.

I still don't think that those two cunts will put in any money in January though.

If they hadn't been "that fucking thick" in the summer, then maybe we wouldn't be in this position now.
[/quote]

Our net spend during the summer: 2m. Our Gross Spend - 38m (?)
United's net spend: - 60m. United's Gross Spend: 20m.

Yet they are still in the top two while we're in midtable.

The owners haven't helped us but our biggest problem is where the money we spent went. On a midfielder that's never fit and a defender that doesn't defend.


[/quote]

Yeah i'll agree that some our signings could have been better Rosco, no arguments there. The scum comparison that you use though is very one-eyd! You fail to take into account the £100's of millions they've spent before that, that has helped them build up a strong squad whilst they were already winning league titles.

It's not like Fergie has spent £20m on Hargreaves is it?
 
We could probably do worse than appointing Roy Hodgson if Rafa goes/is sacked. Fulham does look like a team rather than a collection of individuals, and the results they get against the top sides are there to see. And that's with a next to 0 budget.

If Rafa goes, I think we should go for either MON or Hodgson. I agree that MON is not very likely to leave Villa for us (although he might) but Hodgson definitely will.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017975#msg1017975 date=1261242341]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017967#msg1017967 date=1261241835]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017956#msg1017956 date=1261241279]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017953#msg1017953 date=1261241021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017815#msg1017815 date=1261236799]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017810#msg1017810 date=1261236734]
This "not got a pot to piss in" thing.
Does anyone think the owners are that fucking thick that they would not protect their investment by not bringing in a top manager and giving him money.


regards
[/quote]

Thats exactly what you said in the summer.
[/quote]



This is a little more scary than some old cunt wildly speculating that if we did not get some cover for Torres we might be fucked.
Make no mistake the yanks will be shitting their pants right now.


[/quote]

I agree Vlad, they will be.

I still don't think that those two cunts will put in any money in January though.

If they hadn't been "that fucking thick" in the summer, then maybe we wouldn't be in this position now.
[/quote]

Our net spend during the summer: 2m. Our Gross Spend - 38m (?)
United's net spend: - 60m. United's Gross Spend: 20m.

Yet they are still in the top two while we're in midtable.

The owners haven't helped us but our biggest problem is where the money we spent went. On a midfielder that's never fit and a defender that doesn't defend.


[/quote]

Yeah i'll agree that some our signings could have been better Rosco, no arguments there. The scum comparison that you use though is very one-eyd! You fail to take into account the £100's of millions they've spent before that, that has helped them build up a strong squad whilst they were already winning league titles.

It's not like Fergie has spent £20m on Hargreaves is it?


[/quote]

We were four points behind them last season.

We spent more than them this season and we're further behind.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017973#msg1017973 date=1261242124]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017956#msg1017956 date=1261241279]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017953#msg1017953 date=1261241021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017815#msg1017815 date=1261236799]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017810#msg1017810 date=1261236734]
This "not got a pot to piss in" thing.
Does anyone think the owners are that fucking thick that they would not protect their investment by not bringing in a top manager and giving him money.


regards
[/quote]

Thats exactly what you said in the summer.
[/quote]



This is a little more scary than some old cunt wildly speculating that if we did not get some cover for Torres we might be fucked.
Make no mistake the yanks will be shitting their pants right now.


[/quote]

I agree Vlad, they will be.

I still don't think that those two cunts will put in any money in January though.

If they hadn't been "that fucking thick" in the summer, then maybe we wouldn't be in this position now.
[/quote]

I am still not convinced that Rafa was not complicit in the summer spendings and dealings.
Is it too much fantasy to suggest that Rafa made a deal that he would get by with the squad he had as long as he signed all his players up to long term deals - at the expense of a striker?

regards
[/quote]

Well on that Vlad we'll never know 100%.

The thing is though even if he did know, then it would have been a catch 22 situation anyway. We could of used roughly £10m to sign a striker, but then we'd run the risk of losing more than that with certain players contracts coming to an end + other players such as Torres, Gerrard and co not getting what they think they deserve.

Of course i agree that we need another striker desperately (amongst other positions as well), but i can honestly say given the choice, that i'd rather have our established players tied down on longer deals instead.
 
Ngog scores when played. Can we be sure that a £10m would score more?
We probably need a bigger name but that will not cost £10m.
 
Anyone but Rafa.
A new face, a new start, fresh motivation, ideas, tactics etc
anyone half decent anyone.
I can't take any more of Rafas Liverpool
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017983#msg1017983 date=1261242817]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017975#msg1017975 date=1261242341]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1017967#msg1017967 date=1261241835]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017956#msg1017956 date=1261241279]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017953#msg1017953 date=1261241021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1017815#msg1017815 date=1261236799]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38006.msg1017810#msg1017810 date=1261236734]
This "not got a pot to piss in" thing.
Does anyone think the owners are that fucking thick that they would not protect their investment by not bringing in a top manager and giving him money.


regards
[/quote]

Thats exactly what you said in the summer.
[/quote]



This is a little more scary than some old cunt wildly speculating that if we did not get some cover for Torres we might be fucked.
Make no mistake the yanks will be shitting their pants right now.


[/quote]

I agree Vlad, they will be.

I still don't think that those two cunts will put in any money in January though.

If they hadn't been "that fucking thick" in the summer, then maybe we wouldn't be in this position now.
[/quote]

Our net spend during the summer: 2m. Our Gross Spend - 38m (?)
United's net spend: - 60m. United's Gross Spend: 20m.

Yet they are still in the top two while we're in midtable.

The owners haven't helped us but our biggest problem is where the money we spent went. On a midfielder that's never fit and a defender that doesn't defend.


[/quote]

Yeah i'll agree that some our signings could have been better Rosco, no arguments there. The scum comparison that you use though is very one-eyd! You fail to take into account the £100's of millions they've spent before that, that has helped them build up a strong squad whilst they were already winning league titles.

It's not like Fergie has spent £20m on Hargreaves is it?


[/quote]

We were four points behind them last season.

We spent more than them this season and we're further behind.
[/quote]

It's not over one year though Rosco, it's what they've spent from a position of strength over the last 10+ years that also plays it's part.

I'll say it again i agree 100% with you that Rafa's signings this summer (and some others) could/should of been better, and with the players that we have, we of course should be doing much better that we currently are. Rafa has to take his fair share of blame for this

I just don't agree that by simply replacing Rafa that it will guarantee us better results. Given our current situation (on/off field), in fact i think it will be extremely difficult to find the right replacement.
 
I'd rather try for the right replacement than stick with the wrong man out of some misplaced sense of loyalty / superfanness (yeah i just made that one up)

Rafa is too one dimensional in his approach to management to be able to successfully drag us out of this situation.

I think a new manager would do the club a world of good and I guarantee you we'd go on a good run of results with a positive manager who can motivate the squad.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1018015#msg1018015 date=1261244332]
I'd rather try for the right replacement than stick with the wrong man out of some misplaced sense of loyalty / superfanness (yeah i just made that one up)

Rafa is too one dimensional in his approach to management to be able to successfully drag us out of this situation.

I think a new manager would do the club a world of good and I guarantee you we'd go on a good run of results with a positive manager who can motivate the squad.
[/quote]

You can't guarantee that at all.

I'm open to a change, but we've got to make sure that we get it right if and when we do. All this "anyone will do" shit is bollocks.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38006.msg1018024#msg1018024 date=1261244874]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=38006.msg1018015#msg1018015 date=1261244332]
I'd rather try for the right replacement than stick with the wrong man out of some misplaced sense of loyalty / superfanness (yeah i just made that one up)

Rafa is too one dimensional in his approach to management to be able to successfully drag us out of this situation.

I think a new manager would do the club a world of good and I guarantee you we'd go on a good run of results with a positive manager who can motivate the squad.
[/quote]

You can't guarantee that at all.

I'm open to a change, but we've got to make sure that we get it right if and when we do. All this "anyone will do" shit is bollocks.




[/quote]

Whoever said "anyone will do" ?

Everyone is just saying Rafa won't do.
 
I'm pretty certain now that rafa can't do the job. When i saw spearing about to come on, i went out. I physically felt like i've had enough now. What kind of fucking blinkered, stupid manager, thinks bringing on spearing and aurelio will be any use. Aurelio should have started and babel should've come on for kuyt. I think babel has the shittest attitude, but by fuck if he fancies having a go he can be a useful player. Kuyt hasn't been useful since last season
 
I see Van Gaal is starting to get Bayern firing on all cylinders. *wink*
Sadly we can't afford him to have a slow start like he has had at Bayern.

Hodgson, Rijkaard, Blanc.
IIRC Blanc did pretty well with Getafe as well, got them into Europe(I think).
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=38006.msg1018046#msg1018046 date=1261246797]
I fucking hate Van Gaal
[/quote]

Me too, signed so many shitty Dutch players for Barca and tried to force their best player (Rivaldo) out.
 
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