Thiago.... Ja ????

[Modo]

I always suspected that FSGs' plan was to build up the LFC brand and then sell the club to the highest bidder. It started when I noticed that every big signing we made was preceded or succeeded by a big transfer out.
Lebron James investing, I mean he's not at all interested in football and Woland's constant harping about "lizards", made me more suspicious.
I have no idea why they're still sticking around, but maybe they've noticed that they're making a fair bit of money now.
My point is, should we be surprised?
I have no doubt in my mind that the plan was and probably is, to sell Grujic, Wilson and other fringe players to finance any incoming player transfers.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

No it's not. Obviously there's only one pot of money ultimately, so it's true in that narrow sense.

But that doesn't mean there doesn't need to be appropriate budgets for the different needs of the business, and that using one to prop up another isn't going to lead to problems.

So 4 players have contract renewals coming up and are given massive pay rises. Where does that come from? There are clearly different spots for different business areas but salaries will be linked in with transfer budgets.

 

[peterhague]

So 4 players have contract renewals coming up and are given massive pay rises. Where does that come from? There are clearly different spots for different business areas but salaries will be linked in with transfer budgets.

I don't know where it comes from, it's a hypothetical question.

My point is that it shouldn't come from other crucial budgets.

 

[peekay]

FSG didn't pay a market valuation, they just cleared the debt. I haven't got a clue how that works but they got us at a steal.

In terms of valuation, a Chinese group bought 13% of Man City for 265 million a few years ago. About the same as the total cost to FSG for LFC.

I wouldnt be surprised if the City deal is just one aspect of a broad suite of investments in Abu Dhabi, infrastructure etc. Again, I dont know a lot about this, but it does seem odd if folks are willing to invest 200-300 million in our club for 10-15% stake, when they can purchase Newcastle or similar clubs in Serie A, La Liga for same amount.

We are no longer the undervalued asset that FSG got.

 

[peekay]

I always suspected that FSGs' plan was to build up the LFC brand and then sell the club to the highest bidder. It started when I noticed that every big we made was preceded or succeeded by a big transfer.
Lebron James investing, I mean he's not at all interested in football and Woland's constant harping about "lizards", made me more suspicious.
I have no idea why they're still sticking around, but maybe they've noticed that they're making a fair bit of money now.
My point is, should we be surprised?
I have no doubt in my mind that the plan was and probably is, to sell Grujic, Wilson and other fringe players to finance any incoming player transfers.

Without COVID we would have definitely bought Werner and maybe even one other star without selling anyone big. As for FSGs plan to sell, they haven't shown any inclination to sell Red Sox or us.

 

[doctor_mac]

A ship, my friend. A ship. This is Liverpool.

Ahhh, a reptile piloting a ship. Forgive my impudence, that makes so much more sense than driving a car.

 

[tomasjj]

Ahhh, a reptile piloting a ship. Forgive my impudence, that makes so much more sense than driving a car.

In the words of resident Guru Jason - open your mind.

 

[ibromurph]

This just reminds me of people trying to make an argument for why a Downing or a Pennant is a good signing just because they happen to be signing for us. If this was happening at a differnet club, I really doubt we'd have as many people arguing how shrewd and strategic the club's management are being.

As Woland said in another thread, FSG have had an almost satanic amount of good luck. The way we luck out of this situation without spending is if Jones and Brewster both have monster break out seasons and end up showing they can be TAA level first-teamers. That'd be something, eh...

Yeah but if Klopp believes in them, then we have to trust his judgement.

I think that's the thing here.

We all want us to spend. But spending also blocks pathways for certain players.

Signing Thiago could block Keita or Jones.

Signing Sarr could block Eliott or Rhian.

So until I hear murmurings of unrest from Jürgen (he will never come out and openly say it), I'm going to trust that he believes we are strong enough to compete on all fronts.

We also have to be realistic in the current times. LFC is supposed to be a family from top to bottom and perhaps we could go out and spend an additional 30-50m, if we do what Arsenal did and lay off staff now. But that would go against the ethos we have built of "everyone together".

Like I said though, we'd all love to spend big money and get players in now. But we don't appear to be in a rush nor do we really need to be. Our first 16 is strong enough to take us to the transfer deadline in October. It's still early in the window and we have players to sell, and much of our sales are likely to be later in the window when other clubs first choice targets are missed and the likes of Wilson, Shaqiri, Origi start to look more appealing, as the deadline looms.

After that, and when clubs are probably more desperate to sell themselves with the financial reality of empty stadiums dawns of them, then I would hope we would make our moves.

But right now, it actually seems wiser to wait and see how desperate clubs get to sell their players and balance books.

 

[Grjt2]

I don't know where it comes from, it's a hypothetical question.

My point is that it shouldn't come from other crucial budgets.

Dare we suggest that this may be one area that FSG are learning on the job and working out their stance? They don’t typically have transfer fees in US sport, and often what’s possible in player contracts is governed by balancing salary cap conditions.

What we do know is that at Liverpool when we sign someone the owners consider the total liability of the signing (transfer fee and committed salary) as part of the transfer budget. I guess when you start re-signing players to new improved contracts they may think that should come out of the transfer budget too. I’m not saying it’s right, but that’s a logical assumption.

 

[StevieM]

I don't know where it comes from, it's a hypothetical question.

My point is that it shouldn't come from other crucial budgets.

Surely the first thing that’s getting cut when our revenues are down potentially 40%+ is the transfer budget.

Any new signing adds to the wages budget as well, unless we’re selling someone at the same time.

Our wages have gone up significantly in the last year or so because our 3 best players have been (rightly) handed bumper new contracts with improved wages.

There also isn’t a big difference in prize money for winning the league rather than finished in the top four. The big variance in prize money comes from Europe - so we’re actually down in prize money last season compared to when we won the Champions League and finished second.

 

[peterhague]

Surely the first thing that’s getting cut when our revenues are down potentially 40%+ is the transfer budget.

Any new signing adds to the wages budget as well, unless we’re selling someone at the same time.

Our wages have gone up significantly in the last year or so because our 3 best players have been (rightly) handed bumper new contracts with improved wages.

There also isn’t a big difference in prize money for winning the league rather than finished in the top four. The big variance in prize money comes from Europe - so we’re actually down in prize money last season compared to when we won the Champions League and finished second.

I don't really disagree with any of that but I'm not sure what it has to do with the post you quoted or anything much I've written in this thread.

 

[peekay]

Yeah but if Klopp believes in them, then we have to trust his judgement.

I think that's the thing here.

We all want us to spend. But spending also blocks pathways for certain players.

Signing Thiago could block Keita or Jones.

Signing Sarr could block Eliott or Rhian.

So until I hear murmurings of unrest from Jürgen (he will never come out and openly say it), I'm going to trust that he believes we are strong enough to compete on all fronts.

So why did we spend all the time trying to sign Werner? he would have blocked Eliott or Rhian's pathway too. In the last twenty five or more years I have followed this club, there has always been some promising youngster whose pathways would have been blocked. Maybe we should not have signed Alonso as he blocked John Welsh's pathway.

Jurgen will not complain because that is not in his nature. He is incredibly unique in that angle as a top manager.

We are not signing anyone because we are broke due to COVID. And unlike some other clubs, we are not going to take the risk. FSG are smart and there is a decent chance their strategy maybe be proven correct in the medium term. But let us not spin it as some kind of strategy to allow youth to develop. As blocking Jones, Eliott, Rhian was not exactly top of Edwards and Klopp's priorities when we were being linked to Werner and Havertz in January and February.

I agree with you that it would be distasteful for us to spend so much money when we are struggling to employ everyone.

 

[ibromurph]

So why did we spend all the time trying to sign Werner? he would have blocked Eliott or Rhian's pathway too. In the last twenty five or more years I have followed this club, there has always been some promising youngster whose pathways would have been blocked. Maybe we should not have signed Alonso as he blocked John Welsh's pathway.

Jurgen will not complain because that is not in his nature. He is incredibly unique in that angle as a top manager.

We are not signing anyone because we are broke due to COVID. And unlike some other clubs, we are not going to take the risk. FSG are smart and there is a decent chance their strategy maybe be proven correct in the medium term. But let us not spin it as some kind of strategy to allow youth to develop. As blocking Jones, Eliott, Rhian was not exactly top of Edwards and Klopp's priorities when we were being linked to Werner and Havertz in January and February.

I agree with you that it would be distasteful for us to spend so much money when we are struggling to employ everyone.

We still have time left. It's reasonable to believe, for example, that Rhian's impressive form at Swansea has given us pause for thought; to let them train with the first team and make our minds up on whether they are good enough this year, before deciding to move late on.

 

[mark1975]

The problem isnt giving youth a chance, its when we get a few knocks and we are looking at inexperienced/inconsistent/not good enough players to step in. We should have bought players, it will cost us. At the very least we should have replaced Lovren. I'm all for continuity, but you need fresh blood and competition too. I doubt any of our regular XI are shitting themselves when they look at the bench.

 

[Woland]

Surely the first thing that’s getting cut when our revenues are down potentially 40%+ is the transfer budget.

Any new signing adds to the wages budget as well, unless we’re selling someone at the same time.

Our wages have gone up significantly in the last year or so because our 3 best players have been (rightly) handed bumper new contracts with improved wages.

There also isn’t a big difference in prize money for winning the league rather than finished in the top four. The big variance in prize money comes from Europe - so we’re actually down in prize money last season compared to when we won the Champions League and finished second.

Why forty percent? Matchday income is approx 15%, probs less now with new commercial deals, and that's for a whole season.

 

[keniget]

The messaging would've been very different if the club was genuinely relying on big break out seasons from Jones and Brewster. Klopp clearly wanted / wants to make some top class signings but he seemigingly can't and isn't the type to moan about it.

That's why I said we'll be lucky if kids somehow over-deliver.

 

[ibromurph]

The messaging would've been very different if the club was genuinely relying on big break out seasons from Jones and Brewster. Klopp clearly wanted / wants to make some top class signings but he seemigingly can't and isn't the type to moan about it.

That's why I said we'll be lucky if kids somehow over-deliver.

I just believe (or hope) that Klopp/FSG are going to make signings closer to the transfer deadline.

 

[RedStar]

People keep suggesting that we have no money because its been diverted to improved contracts for the likes of VvD, Mané and Salah. How much additional spend per season are we talking about for those deals?

If we are topping up the contracts of our best players by 3 or 4 million per season doesnt come close to explaining where all our money has gone given our improved commercial deals and increased prize/TV money over the last 2 years.

 

[StevieM]

Why forty percent? Matchday income is approx 15%, probs less now with new commercial deals, and that's for a whole season.

Broadcast and prize revenue will be down and I’d expect commercial will also be down given economic conditions.

I would be surprised if the 19/20 accounts show a small operating loss despite no major transfer purchases.

The reduction in income in 20/21 will be higher.

 

[bluebell]

Thiago giving all the indication he wants to stay at Bayern.
The case may be FSG are in a bigger hole than the club it's self. Is there a part of their business not heavily affected by Covid19?

 

[FoxForceFive]

Thiago giving all the indication he wants to stay at Bayern.
The case may be FSG are in a bigger hole than the club it's self. Is there a part of their business not heavily affected by Covid19?

I can see us going in for him in January & getting him on the cheap instead of going all out now.

If we let Gini leave now though then that would be a mistake cos we've got sooo many games every week.

Imo we can't go without a CM this season, unless they really really rate Elliot & Jones more than we have assumed they do.

 

[RedStar]

Elliot doeant look like a CM to me, but I do think Jones will get games this year. From a squad perspective CM seems to be overstocked so it would make sense to let a couple go before bringing in Thiago

Henderson
Fabinho
Wijnaldum
Keita
Ox
Jones
Milner
Gruijic

We have a lot of wages tied up in CMs that arent going to get much playing time

 

[Hansern]

Curtis Jones can replace Ox after this season. I love the Ox, but he’s the midfielder that is closest to leaving for me. After Gruijc and the enviteable Gini transfer obviously.

 

[Fabio]

Thiago giving all the indication he wants to stay at Bayern.
The case may be FSG are in a bigger hole than the club it's self. Is there a part of their business not heavily affected by Covid19?

Has he?

He got pissed off about the questions of him leaving. What do you want him to say? "Yes please hashtag freethiago"?

 

[bluebell]

Bayern Munich midfielder Thiago Alcantara, 29, has dismissed reports linking him with a move away from the club this summer, despite the Spaniard attracting interest from Liverpool and Manchester United. (Manchester Evening News)
[article]
However, Thiago has thrown a spanner into the works by denying that he has ever asked to bring his seven-year stay at the Allianz Arena to an end, despite Bayern chief Karl-Heinz Rummenigge saying as much.
“I have not said at any time that I am leaving,” Thiago told reporters ahead of Spain's upcoming Nations League match against the Ukraine
“Every year you put me in a different team.
“I am on the sidelines, my future is tomorrow’s game right now. I neither care nor am I interested in what I know I talked.”
[/article]

 

[Modo]

Yeah right.
If I had a penny for every player that said that he wasn't going leave and then left, I'd have about $3 dollars and 50 cents.

 

[737Max]

All gamesmanship

 

[Red Bird]

The media has either not learned it’s lesson (Messi has already signed for City etc.) or has learned it well (clickety, clickety ...)

 

[HC]

So the argument of buying thiago only once and if Gini leaves is surely the most obvious way we're going to overpay for thiago?

Surely he costs less if we need him less

 

[King Binny]

[article]Liverpool legend Graeme Souness will be disappointed if they fail to sign Bayern Munich midfielder Thiago Alcantara.

The Anfield giants have bought in just one player, left back Kostas Tsimikas from Olympiakos, and the defence of their first title in three decades begins next week.

In his column for The Times, Souness wrote: "The perfect time to sign players is when they do not have to be an instant hit but can be gradually introduced, so I am disappointed that Liverpool haven't done so while they are reigning Premier League and world champions.

"That worked well with the likes of Fabinho and Robertson, who came to the fore after spending several months learning the system and could bed in without the spotlight being on them.

"That was classic Liverpool when I played there and classic Manchester United for over more than 20 years under Sir Alex Ferguson - to strengthen from a position of power.

"Thiago Alcantara, the Bayern Munich midfielder, would be perfect because he works his socks off but is also gifted technically. He is 29, but he still has a couple of years, maybe three, at the highest level left in him."[/article]