It's a fair question, but IMO this is too important a matter to be decided on that basis. As long as the club and the player decide this has to be fought and the lawyers say there's a reasonable chance of success, I think we have to carry on.
The Suarez/Evra Racism Row
- Thread starter Stulikesdrums
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
@jj I think iv seen a couple of head in sand and not many mentals fro
My side of the argument. Iv seen loads of people still bang on about racist etc though no one has actually said he Is.
I would suggest ltw is more pissed off about how it's been dealt with by the fa not because someone said he had his head in the sand 20 pages back.... But I'm sure he can speak for himself.
My side of the argument. Iv seen loads of people still bang on about racist etc though no one has actually said he Is.
I would suggest ltw is more pissed off about how it's been dealt with by the fa not because someone said he had his head in the sand 20 pages back.... But I'm sure he can speak for himself.
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1449280#msg1449280 date=1324486041]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1449219#msg1449219 date=1324484789]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1449177#msg1449177 date=1324483912]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1449169#msg1449169 date=1324483761]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1449162#msg1449162 date=1324483403]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1449150#msg1449150 date=1324482843]
Ah yeah, top post my arse
[/quote]Just ignore this silliness Anita.
The club have said that Evra was insulting to Suarez (in the most objectionable way) and we are being asked to believe that when he was being abused in the most objectionable way he just responded with a term of endearment back and wasnt in any way abusive to Evra...
Riiiiiiiiiiiight!!
[/quote]
Objection you honour.
I put it to you that the club said Suarez didnt hear the Evra comment.
Sustained
[/quote]I think maybe you need to read the club statement again.
Or dont. I couldnt care less to be honest.
[/quote]
"We would also like to know when the FA intend to charge Patrice Evra with making abusive remarks to an opponent after he admitted himself in his evidence to insulting Luis Suarez in Spanish in the most objectionable of terms. Luis, to his credit, actually told the FA he had not heard the insult."
Is this the bit you mean?
[/quote]
Well? Is it?
[/quote]Like I said, I couldnt care less to be honest.
This shit is old.
Good luck to everyone regardless of thier opine.
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1449219#msg1449219 date=1324484789]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1449177#msg1449177 date=1324483912]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1449169#msg1449169 date=1324483761]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1449162#msg1449162 date=1324483403]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1449150#msg1449150 date=1324482843]
Ah yeah, top post my arse
[/quote]Just ignore this silliness Anita.
The club have said that Evra was insulting to Suarez (in the most objectionable way) and we are being asked to believe that when he was being abused in the most objectionable way he just responded with a term of endearment back and wasnt in any way abusive to Evra...
Riiiiiiiiiiiight!!
[/quote]
Objection you honour.
I put it to you that the club said Suarez didnt hear the Evra comment.
Sustained
[/quote]I think maybe you need to read the club statement again.
Or dont. I couldnt care less to be honest.
[/quote]
"We would also like to know when the FA intend to charge Patrice Evra with making abusive remarks to an opponent after he admitted himself in his evidence to insulting Luis Suarez in Spanish in the most objectionable of terms. Luis, to his credit, actually told the FA he had not heard the insult."
Is this the bit you mean?
[/quote]
Well? Is it?
[/quote]Like I said, I couldnt care less to be honest.
This shit is old.
Good luck to everyone regardless of thier opine.
[quote author=Binny link=topic=47188.msg1449293#msg1449293 date=1324486687]
[quoteUruguayan Football Association president Sebastian Bauza said the AUF was in touch with the FA and Liverpool through the Uruguayan embassy in England to give Suarez whatever backing he needed in his appeal against the sanction.[/quote]
That helped then >🙁
[quoteUruguayan Football Association president Sebastian Bauza said the AUF was in touch with the FA and Liverpool through the Uruguayan embassy in England to give Suarez whatever backing he needed in his appeal against the sanction.[/quote]
That helped then >🙁
Good link to follow for news/views update on the issue: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8969738/Liverpools-Luis-Suarez-guilty-of-racially-abusing-Patrice-Evra-live.html
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1449271#msg1449271 date=1324485879]
haters will hate ... yes ... and i wish you only well.
[/quote]You too man. Its hardly worth anyone falling out over.
In the grand scheme of things it is like a grain of sand in the Gobi desert.
haters will hate ... yes ... and i wish you only well.
[/quote]You too man. Its hardly worth anyone falling out over.
In the grand scheme of things it is like a grain of sand in the Gobi desert.
Posters should exchange views and opinions without getting angry or personal, irrespective of how emotive the topic is. The fact of the matter is Luis shouldn't have said what he said. In mitigation, he comes from a culture where the words used aren't hate words and it isn't apparent that he had the intent behind them as the FA have implied, therefore an 8 match ban is excessive. I find it ironic that the FA has chosen to use a case with two different ethnic minorities to make their 'stand'. When emotions subside, and logic prevails people will see this case for the mockery it is.
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1449300#msg1449300 date=1324487235]
I would suggest ltw is more pissed off about how it's been dealt with by the fa not because someone said he had his head in the sand 20 pages back.... But I'm sure he can speak for himself.
[/quote]
I don't care about the FA (i.e. ban) - I've said this for a while now (I'd just want it to be 3 games etc). I don't like being insulted though, but I can't talk - I did it a few times in this thread. Whatever, what is done ... is done ... Peace.
I would suggest ltw is more pissed off about how it's been dealt with by the fa not because someone said he had his head in the sand 20 pages back.... But I'm sure he can speak for himself.
[/quote]
I don't care about the FA (i.e. ban) - I've said this for a while now (I'd just want it to be 3 games etc). I don't like being insulted though, but I can't talk - I did it a few times in this thread. Whatever, what is done ... is done ... Peace.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1449305#msg1449305 date=1324487529]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1449271#msg1449271 date=1324485879]
haters will hate ... yes ... and i wish you only well.
[/quote]You too man. Its hardly worth anyone falling out over.
In the grand scheme of things it is like a grain of sand in the Gobi desert.
[/quote]
Not going to fall out with individuals ... true.
A friend made a good point - South American players are going to be less and less likely to be attracted to the EPL based on the experiences of Masch, Tevez and now Suarez. Pity ...
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1449271#msg1449271 date=1324485879]
haters will hate ... yes ... and i wish you only well.
[/quote]You too man. Its hardly worth anyone falling out over.
In the grand scheme of things it is like a grain of sand in the Gobi desert.
[/quote]
Not going to fall out with individuals ... true.
A friend made a good point - South American players are going to be less and less likely to be attracted to the EPL based on the experiences of Masch, Tevez and now Suarez. Pity ...
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1449310#msg1449310 date=1324487815]
I find it strange that they even didn't consider asking a Latin expert for his view on the alleged exchanges between Suarez and Evra.
They are so self assured and so convinced that they're right and just wouldn't listen to other views.
Very sad.
[/quote]
Would it not be the clubs job to provide that viewpoint?
I find it strange that they even didn't consider asking a Latin expert for his view on the alleged exchanges between Suarez and Evra.
They are so self assured and so convinced that they're right and just wouldn't listen to other views.
Very sad.
[/quote]
Would it not be the clubs job to provide that viewpoint?
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47188.msg1449316#msg1449316 date=1324488204]
I'm putting a fucking stop to this
I get it, race is an issue that will be never be solved, and with a case like this which is open to interpretation it's going to descend further into farce
Everyone needs to chill the fuck out and move on.
[/quote]Hanjiiiii mod of the yearrrrrr!!
I'm putting a fucking stop to this
I get it, race is an issue that will be never be solved, and with a case like this which is open to interpretation it's going to descend further into farce
Everyone needs to chill the fuck out and move on.
[/quote]Hanjiiiii mod of the yearrrrrr!!
Some intresting points here...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8969738/Liverpools-Luis-Suarez-guilty-of-racially-abusing-Patrice-Evra-live.html
17.02 Here's a lengthy email from Tim Crowley:
E-mail Now I'm not a legal professional, so I stand to be corrected, but it would seem to me that the FA have not stated either the charge or the verdict very well. The original charge is that: "'It is alleged that Suárez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United's Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules.
"It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra.'" Now yesterday's statement makes clear that the verdict is that "Mr Suárez used insulting words towards Mr Evra". These insulting words "included a reference to Mr Evra's colour".
What do we make of this? Note that the reference to "behaviour" is not part of the verdict. The emphasis then is on the words used by Suárez, not his behaviour: on the 'what', not the 'how' (so the issue of 'how he said what he said', as James Lawton puts it the Independent, is irrelevant).
The key question, then, is this: What were the insulting words? Whatever they were, it is stated that they included a reference to colour. The one acknowledged reference to Evra's colour came in the context of a question that Suárez asked Evra. Just to be clear, according to the FA statement, the reference to colour is not in itself the 'insult'.
It presumably influenced the extent of the punishment, but not necessarily the initial verdict. What this means is that the FA must show evidence of insulting words, apart from the use of a word referring to Evra's colour, to support their verdict.
In other words, the issue, as it has been set by the FA in their statement, is not about whether or not Suárez used the word 'negro', or 'negrito'; nor is it about his demeanour when he used the word. It is rather about whether the reference to Evra's colour came in the context of verbal abuse.
I would expect Liverpool FC should have no difficulty acquiring the services of a team of legal professionals who should be able easily to destroy the FA's case, and overturn the verdict.
The odd thing is, if it is true that Evra did indeed utter the words “Don’t touch me, you South American”, allegedly in Spanish, then the case is far clearer that Evra used insulting words which included a deprecatory reference to Suárez's background, that could be considered tantamount to racist abuse, i.e., of treating another person less favourably on grounds of ethnic or national origin.
Moreover, if Evra did say that in Spanish, then the context is a conversation in Spanish, within which the use of 'negro' or 'negrito' needs to be properly understood. And that would invalidate the argument that Suárez should have been aware of the potentially offensive connotations of the use of the English word 'negro' in the UK or other English-speaking countries.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8969738/Liverpools-Luis-Suarez-guilty-of-racially-abusing-Patrice-Evra-live.html
17.02 Here's a lengthy email from Tim Crowley:
E-mail Now I'm not a legal professional, so I stand to be corrected, but it would seem to me that the FA have not stated either the charge or the verdict very well. The original charge is that: "'It is alleged that Suárez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United's Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules.
"It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra.'" Now yesterday's statement makes clear that the verdict is that "Mr Suárez used insulting words towards Mr Evra". These insulting words "included a reference to Mr Evra's colour".
What do we make of this? Note that the reference to "behaviour" is not part of the verdict. The emphasis then is on the words used by Suárez, not his behaviour: on the 'what', not the 'how' (so the issue of 'how he said what he said', as James Lawton puts it the Independent, is irrelevant).
The key question, then, is this: What were the insulting words? Whatever they were, it is stated that they included a reference to colour. The one acknowledged reference to Evra's colour came in the context of a question that Suárez asked Evra. Just to be clear, according to the FA statement, the reference to colour is not in itself the 'insult'.
It presumably influenced the extent of the punishment, but not necessarily the initial verdict. What this means is that the FA must show evidence of insulting words, apart from the use of a word referring to Evra's colour, to support their verdict.
In other words, the issue, as it has been set by the FA in their statement, is not about whether or not Suárez used the word 'negro', or 'negrito'; nor is it about his demeanour when he used the word. It is rather about whether the reference to Evra's colour came in the context of verbal abuse.
I would expect Liverpool FC should have no difficulty acquiring the services of a team of legal professionals who should be able easily to destroy the FA's case, and overturn the verdict.
The odd thing is, if it is true that Evra did indeed utter the words “Don’t touch me, you South American”, allegedly in Spanish, then the case is far clearer that Evra used insulting words which included a deprecatory reference to Suárez's background, that could be considered tantamount to racist abuse, i.e., of treating another person less favourably on grounds of ethnic or national origin.
Moreover, if Evra did say that in Spanish, then the context is a conversation in Spanish, within which the use of 'negro' or 'negrito' needs to be properly understood. And that would invalidate the argument that Suárez should have been aware of the potentially offensive connotations of the use of the English word 'negro' in the UK or other English-speaking countries.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1449312#msg1449312 date=1324487959]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1449305#msg1449305 date=1324487529]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1449271#msg1449271 date=1324485879]
haters will hate ... yes ... and i wish you only well.
[/quote]You too man. Its hardly worth anyone falling out over.
In the grand scheme of things it is like a grain of sand in the Gobi desert.
[/quote]
Not going to fall out with individuals ... true.
A friend made a good point - South American players are going to be less and less likely to be attracted to the EPL based on the experiences of Masch, Tevez and now Suarez. Pity ...
[/quote]To be fair Tevez and Mascherano are cunts.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1449305#msg1449305 date=1324487529]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1449271#msg1449271 date=1324485879]
haters will hate ... yes ... and i wish you only well.
[/quote]You too man. Its hardly worth anyone falling out over.
In the grand scheme of things it is like a grain of sand in the Gobi desert.
[/quote]
Not going to fall out with individuals ... true.
A friend made a good point - South American players are going to be less and less likely to be attracted to the EPL based on the experiences of Masch, Tevez and now Suarez. Pity ...
[/quote]To be fair Tevez and Mascherano are cunts.
The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
Locking that other thread was bollocks. Some of us can retain some perspective and enjoying reading the different view points. I mean what the fuck? We lock threads now when we can't agree on an issue?
Locking that other thread was bollocks. Some of us can retain some perspective and enjoying reading the different view points. I mean what the fuck? We lock threads now when we can't agree on an issue?
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
There does need to be a thread I reckon. Otherwise it'll just spill everywhere else.
Still, not my decision to make, and I can see why it was closed. It had gone a bit silly.
There does need to be a thread I reckon. Otherwise it'll just spill everywhere else.
Still, not my decision to make, and I can see why it was closed. It had gone a bit silly.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
We lock threads gene because they descend into farce. It's been bubbling over for days and it's been allowed to go unabated because a majority of the mods are involved and trying to get their points across.
There's a lot of insults gene
It's nearly fucking christmas after all
We lock threads gene because they descend into farce. It's been bubbling over for days and it's been allowed to go unabated because a majority of the mods are involved and trying to get their points across.
There's a lot of insults gene
It's nearly fucking christmas after all
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48021.msg1449335#msg1449335 date=1324489452]
We lock threads gene because they descend into farce. It's been bubbling over for days and it's been allowed to go unabated because a majority of the mods are involved and trying to get their points across.
There's a lot of insults gene
It's nearly fucking christmas after all
[/quote]
Why do you care? People are obvously getting something out of it or they wouldn't keep coming back. You're like a pub that stops serving when it sees people starting to get a bit tipsy.
"Oh shit! a passionate and vibrant debate with lots of different opinions, quick lock the thread before this madness spreads to the rest of the forum!!"
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48021.msg1449335#msg1449335 date=1324489452]
We lock threads gene because they descend into farce. It's been bubbling over for days and it's been allowed to go unabated because a majority of the mods are involved and trying to get their points across.
There's a lot of insults gene
It's nearly fucking christmas after all
[/quote]
Why do you care? People are obvously getting something out of it or they wouldn't keep coming back. You're like a pub that stops serving when it sees people starting to get a bit tipsy.
"Oh shit! a passionate and vibrant debate with lots of different opinions, quick lock the thread before this madness spreads to the rest of the forum!!"
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48021.msg1449340#msg1449340 date=1324489695]
If there is a single insult in here it's getting locked
Anyone who wants to start a new thread after I lock that then gets banned.
I'm sorry but this is the line I'm taking
[/quote]
You're being an asshole.
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48021.msg1449340#msg1449340 date=1324489695]
If there is a single insult in here it's getting locked
Anyone who wants to start a new thread after I lock that then gets banned.
I'm sorry but this is the line I'm taking
[/quote]
You're being an asshole.
Similar threads
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