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The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

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[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1445003#msg1445003 date=1324120080]
Suarez kept referring to Evra's race
[/quote]

Neets, this is really annoying. 'Negrita', or 'negrito' is not a racial reference! Good God, have you read anything here?

This is a term that is used between white people, or any people.

Imagine he's calling Evra 'sweetheart' all game. Of course he doesn't mean it affectionately, but he doesn't mean it as a racial slur because IT DOESN'T HAVE RACIAL CONNOTATIONS IN THE SPANISH SPEAKING WORLD. Nod if you comprehend what I'm saying.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1445016#msg1445016 date=1324121188]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1445003#msg1445003 date=1324120080]
Suarez kept referring to Evra's race
[/quote]

Neets, this is really annoying. 'Negrita', or 'negrito' is not a racial reference! Good God, have you read anything here?

This is a term that is used between white people, or any people.

Imagine he's calling Evra 'sweetheart' all game. Of course he doesn't mean it affectionately, but he doesn't mean it as a racial slur because IT DOESN'T HAVE RACIAL CONNOTATIONS IN THE SPANISH SPEAKING WORLD. Nod if you comprehend what I'm saying.
[/quote]

Of course those words refer to people of colour, the issue is whether or not its offensive or a hate word.
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=47188.msg1445018#msg1445018 date=1324121434]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1445016#msg1445016 date=1324121188]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1445003#msg1445003 date=1324120080]
Suarez kept referring to Evra's race
[/quote]

Neets, this is really annoying. 'Negrita', or 'negrito' is not a racial reference! Good God, have you read anything here?

This is a term that is used between white people, or any people.

Imagine he's calling Evra 'sweetheart' all game. Of course he doesn't mean it affectionately, but he doesn't mean it as a racial slur because IT DOESN'T HAVE RACIAL CONNOTATIONS IN THE SPANISH SPEAKING WORLD. Nod if you comprehend what I'm saying.
[/quote]

Of course those words refer to people of colour, the issue is whether or not its offensive or a hate word.
[/quote]

No they don't. I am given to understand that white people commonly refer to one another as 'negrito'.
 
Gus Poyet from a month ago:

Poyet thinks, as others have suggested, that Suarez might have used the word "negrito", and that it was misinterpreted by Evra. "In Uruguay it is a nickname for someone whose skin is darker than the rest," he explains. "It is not offensive. Such people are part of our society. We will defend them, go to war with them, share everything with them, and at the same time use that word. But I do understand that in England the word is used differently, so we have to pay attention how we use it. We need to adapt. Do we as foreigners need to adapt more to England than England to us? Yes, of course. That's common sense. I know things Luis Suarez does not know because I have been here 14 years. So let's use common sense and give the kid a chance."
 
Simeon Tegel: Is the term 'negrito' racist? Sadly for the FA, yes and no

Is the term "negrito" viewed as racist in Spanish-speaking Latin America? Unfortunately for the Football Association, the answer is yes and no.

Luis Suarez's lawyers are right to argue that addressing a person by referring to their appearance, including race, is common practice from Tijuana to Tierra del Fuego.

Spanish terms for "fatty", "skinny", "shorty", "whitey" and even "chino" – literally meaning "Chinese" – are often used in the way many Britons might say "mate".

So too is the term "negro", meaning "black". Although most English-speakers might find any of these terms offensive, they are usually taken neutrally in Latin America.

But what complicates the FA's decision is Suarez's alleged use of the diminutive, adding "ito" to the term "negro". It can indicate affection, especially when said between people who know each other intimately. But it can also be used to belittle.

Much of the case against Suarez must therefore depend on his intent, something that will have to be judged by the context and tone of the remark. The fact that he uttered the term "negrito" during the heat of battle between two such fierce rivals, Liverpool and Manchester United, to Fabrice Evra, a player he has no history of friendship with, arguably undermines any claim that the Uruguay striker was being amicable.

And what else did Suarez say? Accompanying "negrito" with an epithet, for example, could be considered damning.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/simeon-tegel-is-the-term-negrito-racist-sadly-for-the-fa-yes-and-no-6277646.html
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1445020#msg1445020 date=1324121533]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=47188.msg1445018#msg1445018 date=1324121434]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1445016#msg1445016 date=1324121188]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1445003#msg1445003 date=1324120080]
Suarez kept referring to Evra's race
[/quote]

Neets, this is really annoying. 'Negrita', or 'negrito' is not a racial reference! Good God, have you read anything here?

This is a term that is used between white people, or any people.

Imagine he's calling Evra 'sweetheart' all game. Of course he doesn't mean it affectionately, but he doesn't mean it as a racial slur because IT DOESN'T HAVE RACIAL CONNOTATIONS IN THE SPANISH SPEAKING WORLD. Nod if you comprehend what I'm saying.
[/quote]

Of course those words refer to people of colour, the issue is whether or not its offensive or a hate word.
[/quote]

No they don't. I am given to understand that white people commonly refer to one another as 'negrito'.
[/quote]

I have difficulty believing Suarez would refer to Dirk Kuyt in the same way, it seems a little 'tricky' to me to try to use that as a defence even if it were true, given it's a word derived from negro, the Spanish for black.

Suarez and all other South American players should be informed that the use of the word is unacceptable and indeed illegal in this country and people in this country need to be informed that it is not a hate word and is socially acceptable in their cultures. Football is a microcosm of society and is multi-cultural so education and awareness is needed to prevent these situations from occurring. If after being informed, Suarez 're-offends' only then should he should face sanction. Racism is all about intent and in this case, its difficult , nigh on impossible to prove.

I think this is a great thread with some passionate, polarised views and opinions and this case has been educational no matter what side of the argument you're on. I believe Suarez didn't intend to be racist, but he saw he wound Evra up even if he was unaware as to why. I think Evra knows this and has sought to make capital out of it, which does the 'Cause' no good at all. I wonder if he has told his team-mates to refrain from referring to him using the same name. If Suarez is sanctioned over this, then his team mates should face similar sanction.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1444890#msg1444890 date=1324078768]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444888#msg1444888 date=1324078680]
[quote author=Irish_Red link=topic=47188.msg1444887#msg1444887 date=1324078614]
To be fair to Doctor Mac he's saying it the way he sees it the same way as I and many others do. Anytime there's been a racist comment made by any poster on this site he's been the first to pull them up on it and put them right.
[/quote]I didnt think that was what was under discussion. But then im clearly missing something.
[/quote]

Oncy, you had him dropping the N bomb earlier, even though there's not been anything to suggest that was the case.

Then it was 'maybe I didn't word it correctly'. Sorry, but to say someone used *that* word, you should know what you're saying.

So go fuck yourself.
[/quote]

Oh how stupid do you look today:

Liverpool's defence involves arguing that the word "negro" – which Suárez has reportedly accepted he did say to Evra – does not necessarily have racist connotations in the player's native Uruguay. The United defender believes this is unacceptable and that Suárez was being offensive towards Evra as the pair clashed repeatedly during the second half at Anfield.
Click to expand...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/16/luis-suarez-racial-abuse-claims
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1445036#msg1445036 date=1324123159]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1444890#msg1444890 date=1324078768]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444888#msg1444888 date=1324078680]
[quote author=Irish_Red link=topic=47188.msg1444887#msg1444887 date=1324078614]
To be fair to Doctor Mac he's saying it the way he sees it the same way as I and many others do. Anytime there's been a racist comment made by any poster on this site he's been the first to pull them up on it and put them right.
[/quote]I didnt think that was what was under discussion. But then im clearly missing something.
[/quote]

Oncy, you had him dropping the N bomb earlier, even though there's not been anything to suggest that was the case.

Then it was 'maybe I didn't word it correctly'. Sorry, but to say someone used *that* word, you should know what you're saying.

So go fuck yourself.
[/quote]

Oh how stupid do you look today:

Liverpool's defence involves arguing that the word "negro" – which Suárez has reportedly accepted he did say to Evra – does not necessarily have racist connotations in the player's native Uruguay. The United defender believes this is unacceptable and that Suárez was being offensive towards Evra as the pair clashed repeatedly during the second half at Anfield.
Click to expand...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/16/luis-suarez-racial-abuse-claims
[/quote]

"Reportedly". Let's wait and see, shall we? The "Grauniad" didn't even get the composition of the panel right the first time.

And Evra still has to explain his widely differing statements on how he felt about the incident before and after Ferguson got to him.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444670#msg1444670 date=1324055867]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1444667#msg1444667 date=1324055793]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444665#msg1444665 date=1324055740]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1444663#msg1444663 date=1324055645]
Nobody's "making excuses" for Suarez, Oncy. You make excuses for someone whom you believe to be guilty. What some of us are doing is pointing out other factors which may well have played a part in things getting this far.
[/quote]I disagree.
Wholeheartedly.
[/quote]

That's your privilege. Let's agree to differ.
[/quote]Of course JJ. I think id agree to differ with about 99% of the posts in this thread.
[/quote]

That's an astonishing effort Oncy - given you're responsible for more than 1% of them.
 
"Luis Suarez's lawyers are right to argue that addressing a person by referring to their appearance, including race, is common practice from Tijuana to Tierra del Fuego.

Spanish terms for "fatty", "skinny", "shorty", "whitey" and even "chino" – literally meaning "Chinese" – are often used in the way many Britons might say "mate".

So too is the term "negro", meaning "black". Although most English-speakers might find any of these terms offensive, they are usually taken neutrally in Latin America".
 
A lot of rumours about Suarez being found not guilty doing the rounds on twitter.

Why hasnt this case like JTs been handed over to the Police? Lack of evidence?
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47188.msg1445050#msg1445050 date=1324123985]
"Luis Suarez's lawyers are right to argue that addressing a person by referring to their appearance, including race, is common practice from Tijuana to Tierra del Fuego.

Spanish terms for "fatty", "skinny", "shorty", "whitey" and even "chino" – literally meaning "Chinese" – are often used in the way many Britons might say "mate".

So too is the term "negro", meaning "black". Although most English-speakers might find any of these terms offensive, they are usually taken neutrally in Latin America".


[/quote]

Where did the game take place ?

Latin America ?
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47188.msg1445050#msg1445050 date=1324123985]
"Luis Suarez's lawyers are right to argue that addressing a person by referring to their appearance, including race, is common practice from Tijuana to Tierra del Fuego.

Spanish terms for "fatty", "skinny", "shorty", "whitey" and even "chino" – literally meaning "Chinese" – are often used in the way many Britons might say "mate".

So too is the term "negro", meaning "black". Although most English-speakers might find any of these terms offensive, they are usually taken neutrally in Latin America".


[/quote]

Oh how stupid Ross looks now
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1445036#msg1445036 date=1324123159]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1444890#msg1444890 date=1324078768]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444888#msg1444888 date=1324078680]
[quote author=Irish_Red link=topic=47188.msg1444887#msg1444887 date=1324078614]
To be fair to Doctor Mac he's saying it the way he sees it the same way as I and many others do. Anytime there's been a racist comment made by any poster on this site he's been the first to pull them up on it and put them right.
[/quote]I didnt think that was what was under discussion. But then im clearly missing something.
[/quote]

Oncy, you had him dropping the N bomb earlier, even though there's not been anything to suggest that was the case.

Then it was 'maybe I didn't word it correctly'. Sorry, but to say someone used *that* word, you should know what you're saying.

So go fuck yourself.
[/quote]

Oh how stupid do you look today:

Liverpool's defence involves arguing that the word "negro" – which Suárez has reportedly accepted he did say to Evra – does not necessarily have racist connotations in the player's native Uruguay. The United defender believes this is unacceptable and that Suárez was being offensive towards Evra as the pair clashed repeatedly during the second half at Anfield.
Click to expand...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/16/luis-suarez-racial-abuse-claims
[/quote]

Well played Perry Mason. Not. This is pretty awful reporting that you're pinning your hopes on. So do we discount the overwhelming weight of reports suggesting he said 'negrita' or 'negrito' because you've produced one, fairly hurried article?

I'd also say that saying 'negro' is different from n****er too, so your argument fails not just in the subtleties (subtlety being a concept you can't really fathom), but also in its fundamentals.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1445055#msg1445055 date=1324124246]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47188.msg1445050#msg1445050 date=1324123985]
"Luis Suarez's lawyers are right to argue that addressing a person by referring to their appearance, including race, is common practice from Tijuana to Tierra del Fuego.

Spanish terms for "fatty", "skinny", "shorty", "whitey" and even "chino" – literally meaning "Chinese" – are often used in the way many Britons might say "mate".

So too is the term "negro", meaning "black". Although most English-speakers might find any of these terms offensive, they are usually taken neutrally in Latin America".


[/quote]

Where did the game take place ?

Latin America ?
[/quote]

Here's a shovel, Ross, keep digging.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47188.msg1445048#msg1445048 date=1324123854]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444670#msg1444670 date=1324055867]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1444667#msg1444667 date=1324055793]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444665#msg1444665 date=1324055740]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1444663#msg1444663 date=1324055645]
Nobody's "making excuses" for Suarez, Oncy. You make excuses for someone whom you believe to be guilty. What some of us are doing is pointing out other factors which may well have played a part in things getting this far.
[/quote]I disagree.
Wholeheartedly.
[/quote]

That's your privilege. Let's agree to differ.
[/quote]Of course JJ. I think id agree to differ with about 99% of the posts in this thread.
[/quote]

That's an astonishing effort Oncy - given you're responsible for more than 1% of them.
[/quote]I disagree wholeheartedly!!!
😉
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1445055#msg1445055 date=1324124246]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47188.msg1445050#msg1445050 date=1324123985]
"Luis Suarez's lawyers are right to argue that addressing a person by referring to their appearance, including race, is common practice from Tijuana to Tierra del Fuego.

Spanish terms for "fatty", "skinny", "shorty", "whitey" and even "chino" – literally meaning "Chinese" – are often used in the way many Britons might say "mate".

So too is the term "negro", meaning "black". Although most English-speakers might find any of these terms offensive, they are usually taken neutrally in Latin America".


[/quote]

Where did the game take place ?

Latin America ?
[/quote]

Next time you come to Liverpool you're only allowed to use scouse and English terminology. None of that Irish bollocks
 
WWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

CAN YOU FEEL THE TENSION IN THE AIR? I KNOW I CAN.



tumblr_lm0qlptpMG1qgolbro1_500.jpg








I CAN FEEL IT ALL THE WAY DOWN IN MA PLUMS.
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47188.msg1445058#msg1445058 date=1324124352]
Regardless of the outcome, i hope we get to hear exactly what went on at this hearing.
[/quote]

Me too.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1445057#msg1445057 date=1324124326]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1445036#msg1445036 date=1324123159]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1444890#msg1444890 date=1324078768]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444888#msg1444888 date=1324078680]
[quote author=Irish_Red link=topic=47188.msg1444887#msg1444887 date=1324078614]
To be fair to Doctor Mac he's saying it the way he sees it the same way as I and many others do. Anytime there's been a racist comment made by any poster on this site he's been the first to pull them up on it and put them right.
[/quote]I didnt think that was what was under discussion. But then im clearly missing something.
[/quote]

Oncy, you had him dropping the N bomb earlier, even though there's not been anything to suggest that was the case.

Then it was 'maybe I didn't word it correctly'. Sorry, but to say someone used *that* word, you should know what you're saying.

So go fuck yourself.
[/quote]

Oh how stupid do you look today:

Liverpool's defence involves arguing that the word "negro" – which Suárez has reportedly accepted he did say to Evra – does not necessarily have racist connotations in the player's native Uruguay. The United defender believes this is unacceptable and that Suárez was being offensive towards Evra as the pair clashed repeatedly during the second half at Anfield.
Click to expand...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/16/luis-suarez-racial-abuse-claims
[/quote]

Well played Perry Mason. Not. This is pretty awful reporting that you're pinning your hopes on. So do we discount the overwhelming weight of reports suggesting he said 'negrita' or 'negrito' because you've produced one, fairly hurried article?

I'd also say that saying 'negro' is different from n****er too, so your argument fails not just in the subtleties (subtlety being a concept you can't really fathom), but also in its fundamentals.
[/quote]

Ok.

I'll go out and call all the black people I can find in Dublin "negro" today and when they get offended I'll tell them they don't understand the subtleties of it so they shouldn't get angry. I'll let you know how it goes.

I don't really see any subtleties at all. I'm just not as clever as you racists.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1445055#msg1445055 date=1324124246]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47188.msg1445050#msg1445050 date=1324123985]
"Luis Suarez's lawyers are right to argue that addressing a person by referring to their appearance, including race, is common practice from Tijuana to Tierra del Fuego.

Spanish terms for "fatty", "skinny", "shorty", "whitey" and even "chino" – literally meaning "Chinese" – are often used in the way many Britons might say "mate".

So too is the term "negro", meaning "black". Although most English-speakers might find any of these terms offensive, they are usually taken neutrally in Latin America".


[/quote]

Where did the game take place ?

Latin America ?
[/quote]

Yeah i get that mate and of course i can fully understand why Evra would be pissed off, but considering where Suarez is from THIS SIMPLY HAS TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1445059#msg1445059 date=1324124423]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1445055#msg1445055 date=1324124246]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47188.msg1445050#msg1445050 date=1324123985]
"Luis Suarez's lawyers are right to argue that addressing a person by referring to their appearance, including race, is common practice from Tijuana to Tierra del Fuego.

Spanish terms for "fatty", "skinny", "shorty", "whitey" and even "chino" – literally meaning "Chinese" – are often used in the way many Britons might say "mate".

So too is the term "negro", meaning "black". Although most English-speakers might find any of these terms offensive, they are usually taken neutrally in Latin America".


[/quote]

Where did the game take place ?

Latin America ?
[/quote]

Here's a shovel, Ross, keep digging.
[/quote]

Ross thinks metaphors are stupid.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1445064#msg1445064 date=1324124535]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1445057#msg1445057 date=1324124326]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1445036#msg1445036 date=1324123159]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1444890#msg1444890 date=1324078768]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444888#msg1444888 date=1324078680]
[quote author=Irish_Red link=topic=47188.msg1444887#msg1444887 date=1324078614]
To be fair to Doctor Mac he's saying it the way he sees it the same way as I and many others do. Anytime there's been a racist comment made by any poster on this site he's been the first to pull them up on it and put them right.
[/quote]I didnt think that was what was under discussion. But then im clearly missing something.
[/quote]

Oncy, you had him dropping the N bomb earlier, even though there's not been anything to suggest that was the case.

Then it was 'maybe I didn't word it correctly'. Sorry, but to say someone used *that* word, you should know what you're saying.

So go fuck yourself.
[/quote]

Oh how stupid do you look today:

Liverpool's defence involves arguing that the word "negro" – which Suárez has reportedly accepted he did say to Evra – does not necessarily have racist connotations in the player's native Uruguay. The United defender believes this is unacceptable and that Suárez was being offensive towards Evra as the pair clashed repeatedly during the second half at Anfield.
Click to expand...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/16/luis-suarez-racial-abuse-claims
[/quote]

Well played Perry Mason. Not. This is pretty awful reporting that you're pinning your hopes on. So do we discount the overwhelming weight of reports suggesting he said 'negrita' or 'negrito' because you've produced one, fairly hurried article?

I'd also say that saying 'negro' is different from n****er too, so your argument fails not just in the subtleties (subtlety being a concept you can't really fathom), but also in its fundamentals.
[/quote]

Ok.

I'll go out and call all the black people I can find in Dublin "negro" today and when they get offended I'll tell them they don't understand the subtleties of it so they shouldn't get angry. I'll let you know how it goes.

I don't really see any subtleties at all. I'm just not as clever as you racists.
[/quote]

You're even stupider than you generally seem to be if you think I'm a racist- or JJ or Hammy (who is mixed race with particular knowledge of south American culture) or Y1 (who is asian) and all the other people prepared to treat this as a subtle and complex case.
 
*tut tut at calling everyone racist...

At times, i want to punch Rosco square in the face....

But then from what i hear, i'm more likely to get beaten up.
 
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