• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

Oh right. I didnt actually realise that lawyers were involved in these hearings. Thought FA just decided to make a charge or not ( based on the evidence given to them) and then brought the person charged to the hearing.

If that cunt Evra is cross examined by lawyers then I would be more optimistic of a positive outcome.
 
I'm not sure about this but I believe the rule is that lawyers can be present if the FA agree, and they'd need a defensible reason not to, since that decision could be challenged as much as any other they make.
 
Damien Comolli Not @Damiens_Comolli
I have inside info that the three man panel for Suarez's hearing is made up of David Gill, and two Star Wars Lego figures. #lfc #suarez
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47188.msg1443654#msg1443654 date=1323891823]
Combined 6 game ban I reckon.
[/quote]

Glad you're not defending him Hal
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1443662#msg1443662 date=1323893105]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47188.msg1443654#msg1443654 date=1323891823]
Combined 6 game ban I reckon.
[/quote]

Glad you're not defending him Hal
[/quote]

NEGRITO!

I don't think he should get banned for the finger thing, but he will.

I believe him over the 'negrito' thing, I believe he didn't think it would be construed as racist.

I also believe the FA are incompetent twats who feel like putting the boot in on us recently, for whatever reason.

6 game ban. Actually, 6 game ban, 2 suspended or something. To make it look a bit more detailed and that they deliberated over it.

And a £30,000 fine.
 
It's going to be interesting when they find him guilty of the racism thing, but let EBJT off without so much as a slapped wrist.
 
I'll be surprised if the FA call him a racist, because if they find him guilty thats what they will be doing.

And if they do they will need to be very very sure of their grounds, because it would be a career changing decision, not to mention a life changing one.
 
Evra will be warned about his future conduct for the innocuous crime of slander (against the ref) and bringing the game into disrepute for blabbing on french TV.
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47188.msg1443664#msg1443664 date=1323893655]
He will be cleared of the Racist comments, and get a suspended ban and a fine for the finger .....
[/quote]

I think this could well be right
 
What evidence can Evra point to?

Did the TV cameras pick anything up?
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47188.msg1443710#msg1443710 date=1323906168]
What evidence can Evra point to?

Did the TV cameras pick anything up?
[/quote]

Not according to Sky Sports who handed their recordings of the match to the FA. As far as we know apart from Evra, none of the players on either side has said anything either - except de Gea who said he heard nothing.

I have the feeling that if Suarez had said nothing, the FA would not have been able to charge him. As it is, he has dug a hole for himself.
 
Thing is , he was trying to wind Evra up at the time so I wouldn't be too surprised if he said some naughty things to push his buttons . But if it can't be proven then it can't be proven . Guess there is some doubt or they would not have charged him . Anyway we'll see .
 
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47188.msg1443720#msg1443720 date=1323909833]
Thing is , he was trying to wind Evra up at the time so I wouldn't be too surprised if he said some naughty things to push his buttons . But if it can't be proven then it can't be proven . Guess there is some doubt or they would not have charged him . Anyway we'll see .
[/quote]

I thought it was the other way around actually - looked like Evra started it and was looking for a fight the whole game, right from the coin toss when he seemed to accuse the ref of using a loaded coin.
 
In a North-Western hotel suite off the M6, three wise men are sitting in judgment on Luis Suárez, attempting to unravel one of the most complicated disciplinary cases ever dealt with by the Football Association.

They must rule on linguistic issues, cultural differences, body language while ensuring that the subtleties of the story are not lost amid FA politicking.

The charge facing Suárez is that he “used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour” towards Manchester United’s Patrice Evra at Anfield on Oct 15. It is “alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra”, the FA adds.

Evra, who is adamant he was racially abused 10 times, has the backing of his manager Sir Alex Ferguson and his club.

Suárez, who will admit using the word “negro” once, will argue that it is a descriptive expression, and not deemed offensive in his native Uruguay, and that it is similar to Dirk Kuyt getting called “blondie” by the South American players at Anfield.

Suárez categorically denies the racism charges and enjoys the total support of his manager, Kenny Dalglish, and Liverpool’s owners, John W Henry and Tom Werner.

The Americans will submit testimony supporting their player while Dalglish will attend the hearing in person.

Liverpool are also expected to use evidence from a linguistic expert.

In defending Suárez, Liverpool are expected to mention the incident between Evra and Chelsea’s groundstaff in 2008 which culminated in an FA hearing which concluded that “we find Mr Evra’s account exaggerated and unreliable”.

This is a case of deep detail between two well-known footballers and a broad picture of a governing body engaged in a long-running feud with Fifa president Sepp Blatter. The three men on the panel must guard against letting the FA’s desire to be seen to be strong on racism, so highlighting one of Blatter’s many weak points, clouding their judgment. Reputations are at stake.

The experienced three-man panel, which gathered on Wednesday afternoon, is chaired by Paul Goulding QC, who comes from the same Blackstones chambers as Adam Lewis, the barrister employed by the FA in Wayne Rooney’s successful Uefa appeal last week.

Goulding, a qualified FA coach, appeared for Jean Tigana in his successful claim following his sacking as Fulham manager and has advised Premier League clubs and players in the past.

Also involved is Brian Jones, the chairman of Sheffield and Hallamshire FA who wrote to all his county members on June 20, stressing the need to fight discrimination. The third member is Denis Smith, well respected within the game following his time as a defender at Stoke City and managing clubs such as Sunderland and Oxford United.

Two representatives from the FA secretariat are present but Goulding, Jones and Smith will rule on Suárez, possibly on Friday.

The allegations centre around the second half of the 1-1 draw at Anfield. Events started in the 57th minute when Suárez fouled Evra, tempers really flaring at an ensuing Liverpool corner. Amid some pushing and shoving, Evra demanded to know from Suárez why he had kicked him. Suárez replied that things happen in games and to move on.

It is here that Evra claims Suárez first became racially abusive; the Frenchman was subsequently quoted on the French station Canal Plus, saying that “there are cameras, you can see him [Suárez] say a certain word to me at least 10 times’’. Suárez categorically denies using that word, negro, in the goalmouth.

Watching events from the press box, it was pretty clear that Evra was incensed yet the players around seemed unaware of any dispute. The testimony of those closest, United’s David de Gea and Liverpool’s Dirk Kuyt, will play a part.

There is an expectancy that it will be confirmed to the panel that nothing offensive was heard in the goalmouth.

Shortly after the corner, referee Andre Marriner called the pair together for a lecture. Suárez apologised and attempted to pat the United full-back on the head. “Don’t touch me, you South American,’’ Evra is alleged to have said. To which, the Uruguayan replied: “Porque, Negro?’’

Suárez’s defence rests on the argument that such expressions are commonplace in South America. It is considered offensive, according to Suárez’s defence, only when used with a pejorative adjective or when the tone is aggressive. Footage of Suárez’s body language will be scrutinised by the panel.

This will inevitably form part of Liverpool’s case, that when Suárez did use the word “negro” he was not in aggressive mood, more apologetic towards Evra.

Yet Suárez must prove he was unaware of the sensitivity towards the word “negro” in England. The former Ajax player will also have to explain why, having lived for three years in Holland, he had still to grasp northern European intolerance to such a word.

Despite Marriner’s intervention, Evra remained furious. When he caught Kuyt two minutes later, Evra responded to Marriner’s caution by allegedly claiming: “You’re only booking me because I’m black.’’


Suárez is bemused by the case. “I called him something his team-mates at Manchester call him, and even they were surprised by his reaction,’’ Suárez claimed in the immediate aftermath of the incident.

Much will depend on whether Liverpool can convince the panel that Suárez does not have racist tendencies.

They are expected to point out that Suárez made a video in South African townships during the 2010 World Cup called “From the Streets to the Fields”. He hails football’s “tremendous power of joining people, without any skin, religion and social discrimination”.

Liverpool’s work in combating racism is sure to be mentioned. As is their owners’. Henry has been instrumental in celebrating the life of Jackie Robinson, the legendary black baseballer, at the Boston Red Sox which he owns.

In focusing on increasing diversity at Fenway Park and funding school scholarships for those from disadvantaged parts of Boston, Henry told National Public Radio in October that “we have to make a statement not just in baseball but in our community that diversity is an issue that hasn’t been fully addressed in the past and certainly has to be fully addressed.

"I think it’s important what your actions are. That will really define the franchise going forward’’.

Liverpool’s reputation would be damaged if Suáarez were found guilty of such a heinous offence.

That is why the panel must stay clear-eyed, ignoring FA tensions with Blatter over racism. Goulding, Jones and Smith must focus on one man’s word against another, and whether to accept cultural differences.

Henry Winter's latest piece . Interesting in that it carries alot of info on what is alleged to have gone on , might have missed it but i haven't seen another article with so much detail .
 
I don't know , there's a few things i don't get and so much you can pick at in that article . Firstly , (now this is only if Winter's account is true of course ) is it not slightly offensive to say something like “Don’t touch me, you South American " , especially if said in an aggressive manner ? I mean it may not be as bad as insulting someone's skin colour but surely it's still offensive and provocative to a degree .

And surely Evra doesn't do himself any favours with accusing the ref of only booking him cause he's black . Fair enough if true but i strongly doubt in this situation it is so that's a pretty strong accusation to level at someone.

Not sure on this whole process really , you have a pretty amateur panel adjudicating ..ok you have a QC but the other 2 are just football men by the sounds of it . Are they really qualified to make judgment on something like this ? . The whole thing , the defence of cultural differences etc is all very messy . It would be very hard to pass judgement one way or the other , to prove what one or the other is saying or what Suarez's personal beliefs are or what he did or didn't know to be offensive .

Surely with something so complicated it should just be as basic as "Did he racially abuse Evra and do we have concrete proof , video , ref or other player testimony ? " . All the rest seems too messy to base a case on . And what if Suarez had just said " i said nothing " ..would this now be dropped ?
 
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47188.msg1443738#msg1443738 date=1323922166]
I don't know , there's a few things i don't get and so much you can pick at in that article . Firstly , (now this is only if Winter's account is true of course ) is it not slightly offensive to say something like “Don’t touch me, you South American " , especially if said in an aggressive manner ? I mean it may not be as bad as insulting someone's skin colour but surely it's still offensive and provocative to a degree .

And surely Evra doesn't do himself any favours with accusing the ref of only booking him cause he's black . Fair enough if true but i strongly doubt in this situation it is so that's a pretty strong accusation to level at someone.

Not sure on this whole process really , you have a pretty amateur panel adjudicating ..ok you have a QC but the other 2 are just football men by the sounds of it . Are they really qualified to make judgment on something like this ? . The whole thing , the defence of cultural differences etc is all very messy . It would be very hard to pass judgement one way or the other , to prove what one or the other is saying or what Suarez's personal beliefs are or what he did or didn't know to be offensive .

Surely with something so complicated it should just be as basic as "Did he racially abuse Evra and do we have concrete proof , video , ref or other player testimony ? " . All the rest seems too messy to base a case on . And what if Suarez had just said " i said nothing " ..would this now be dropped ?
[/quote]

If he said that isnt he also accusing the referee of being racist?
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1443797#msg1443797 date=1323939875]
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47188.msg1443738#msg1443738 date=1323922166]
I don't know , there's a few things i don't get and so much you can pick at in that article . Firstly , (now this is only if Winter's account is true of course ) is it not slightly offensive to say something like “Don’t touch me, you South American " , especially if said in an aggressive manner ? I mean it may not be as bad as insulting someone's skin colour but surely it's still offensive and provocative to a degree .

And surely Evra doesn't do himself any favours with accusing the ref of only booking him cause he's black . Fair enough if true but i strongly doubt in this situation it is so that's a pretty strong accusation to level at someone.

Not sure on this whole process really , you have a pretty amateur panel adjudicating ..ok you have a QC but the other 2 are just football men by the sounds of it . Are they really qualified to make judgment on something like this ? . The whole thing , the defence of cultural differences etc is all very messy . It would be very hard to pass judgement one way or the other , to prove what one or the other is saying or what Suarez's personal beliefs are or what he did or didn't know to be offensive .

Surely with something so complicated it should just be as basic as "Did he racially abuse Evra and do we have concrete proof , video , ref or other player testimony ? " . All the rest seems too messy to base a case on . And what if Suarez had just said " i said nothing " ..would this now be dropped ?
[/quote]

If he said that isnt he also accusing the referee of being racist?
[/quote]

I'd say so.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1443801#msg1443801 date=1323940386]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1443797#msg1443797 date=1323939875]
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47188.msg1443738#msg1443738 date=1323922166]
I don't know , there's a few things i don't get and so much you can pick at in that article . Firstly , (now this is only if Winter's account is true of course ) is it not slightly offensive to say something like “Don’t touch me, you South American " , especially if said in an aggressive manner ? I mean it may not be as bad as insulting someone's skin colour but surely it's still offensive and provocative to a degree .

And surely Evra doesn't do himself any favours with accusing the ref of only booking him cause he's black . Fair enough if true but i strongly doubt in this situation it is so that's a pretty strong accusation to level at someone.

Not sure on this whole process really , you have a pretty amateur panel adjudicating ..ok you have a QC but the other 2 are just football men by the sounds of it . Are they really qualified to make judgment on something like this ? . The whole thing , the defence of cultural differences etc is all very messy . It would be very hard to pass judgement one way or the other , to prove what one or the other is saying or what Suarez's personal beliefs are or what he did or didn't know to be offensive .

Surely with something so complicated it should just be as basic as "Did he racially abuse Evra and do we have concrete proof , video , ref or other player testimony ? " . All the rest seems too messy to base a case on . And what if Suarez had just said " i said nothing " ..would this now be dropped ?
[/quote]

If he said that isnt he also accusing the referee of being racist?
[/quote]

I'd say so.
[/quote]

Sorry, maybe i'm not down with the law and racism as much as the general public, but a statement like that should be punished as racist.
 
OliverKayTimes Oliver Kay
RT @RobHarrisUK: UK prosecutors on racism probe: "We have received further evidence in relation to the allegations made against John Terry"
2 minutes ago Favorite
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1443848#msg1443848 date=1323948970]
I thought Evra didn't have a history of accusing people of being racist?
[/quote]

Har har!
 
Kenny's got what looks like a spot of blood on his forehead. Makes it look like he'd just been giving somebody a Glasgow kiss. ;D

Where did that feckin' ManUre VIP package pop-up come from BTW?
 
I think we all know this by now, but I've just spoken to a Spanish girl from my course an asked her about the whole "negrito" thing, and she said "negrito is a lovely thing to say (in Spain/South America). I don't find it offensive. At all."
 
Back
Top Bottom