🙂
I just worry.
Well you worry Rob, but don't make the fucking rest of us worry.
I just worry.
Well you worry Rob, but don't make the fucking rest of us worry.
The Suarez/Evra Racism Row
- Thread starter Stulikesdrums
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
Yes, boss.
[quote author=themn link=topic=47188.msg1457272#msg1457272 date=1325807513]
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1457270#msg1457270 date=1325807229]
Na he said he is red???
Red Indian maybe?? Not sure
[/quote]
Yes, Native American.
HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING MAN ?!
[/quote]
Ding Ding Ding,,, we have a winner.. Ok Johnny tell the man what he has won.
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1457270#msg1457270 date=1325807229]
Na he said he is red???
Red Indian maybe?? Not sure
[/quote]
Yes, Native American.
HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING MAN ?!
[/quote]
Ding Ding Ding,,, we have a winner.. Ok Johnny tell the man what he has won.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1456974#msg1456974 date=1325782157]
So a black person using that word is Ok because it has a different social and historical framework but that rule does not apply to a Latin American using a word which, for him, has a similar framework ?
[/quote]
This.
This.
One million times this.
So a black person using that word is Ok because it has a different social and historical framework but that rule does not apply to a Latin American using a word which, for him, has a similar framework ?
[/quote]
This.
This.
One million times this.
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1457004#msg1457004 date=1325783222]
I think my favourite bit about this thread is the way people on here think they know how someone should react after a racial slur is thrown at them, because obviously everyone on here has had lots of experience of it and there is a set proforma that people must follow, and if someone fails to do so they're obviously lying and cannot be trusted!
[/quote]
Are others not equally guilty of (seemingly) being determined to see racism where it has not been proven to exist?
You yourself talk of how, in one circumstance, mind must be paid to the ackground, both ethnic and social of the speakers of a certain word. Why are you so determined to not even consider giving that same exact same pause that you champion to Suaraz?
I cannot undestand your refusal to give an inch on this... Were somebody in your life 'convicted' in such a manner, with such a dearth of actually evidence, would you feel exactly this same way? With all the holes in the FA's position, why are you not prepared to even consider that Suarez might - just might - be guilty of little more than cultural naivety?
I think my favourite bit about this thread is the way people on here think they know how someone should react after a racial slur is thrown at them, because obviously everyone on here has had lots of experience of it and there is a set proforma that people must follow, and if someone fails to do so they're obviously lying and cannot be trusted!
[/quote]
Are others not equally guilty of (seemingly) being determined to see racism where it has not been proven to exist?
You yourself talk of how, in one circumstance, mind must be paid to the ackground, both ethnic and social of the speakers of a certain word. Why are you so determined to not even consider giving that same exact same pause that you champion to Suaraz?
I cannot undestand your refusal to give an inch on this... Were somebody in your life 'convicted' in such a manner, with such a dearth of actually evidence, would you feel exactly this same way? With all the holes in the FA's position, why are you not prepared to even consider that Suarez might - just might - be guilty of little more than cultural naivety?
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1457260#msg1457260 date=1325806598]
I think ento thinks ltw is White english, and got vexed. Then molby called him a black and ento got more vexed cos he is red not black.
It won't surprise you to notice ltw started it again! If any is better than the ruling whites at divide n conquer it's the Jews!
(weird thing is it's one of ltws best posts on this thread)
[/quote]
To be honest mate, I prefer white russian.
... and that 'post' was in line with most of my other posts about deserving a ban, the word being ok but 'not ok' in England etc ... and stop painting me as Mr. Controversy! I am not, I'm a very nice boy.
I think ento thinks ltw is White english, and got vexed. Then molby called him a black and ento got more vexed cos he is red not black.
It won't surprise you to notice ltw started it again! If any is better than the ruling whites at divide n conquer it's the Jews!
(weird thing is it's one of ltws best posts on this thread)
[/quote]
To be honest mate, I prefer white russian.
... and that 'post' was in line with most of my other posts about deserving a ban, the word being ok but 'not ok' in England etc ... and stop painting me as Mr. Controversy! I am not, I'm a very nice boy.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1457315#msg1457315 date=1325823933]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1456974#msg1456974 date=1325782157]
So a black person using that word is Ok because it has a different social and historical framework but that rule does not apply to a Latin American using a word which, for him, has a similar framework ?
[/quote]
This.
This.
One million times this.
[/quote]
I'm not saying it's okay but normally when a black (sorry african heritage) person uses the n word it is usually to another black person, on the other hand what saurez said wasn't to a person of the same race or nationality. the equivilent of a manc calling you a scouse bastard rather than a liverpudlian.
I'm not saying it's right.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1456974#msg1456974 date=1325782157]
So a black person using that word is Ok because it has a different social and historical framework but that rule does not apply to a Latin American using a word which, for him, has a similar framework ?
[/quote]
This.
This.
One million times this.
[/quote]
I'm not saying it's okay but normally when a black (sorry african heritage) person uses the n word it is usually to another black person, on the other hand what saurez said wasn't to a person of the same race or nationality. the equivilent of a manc calling you a scouse bastard rather than a liverpudlian.
I'm not saying it's right.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457401#msg1457401 date=1325846098]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1457315#msg1457315 date=1325823933]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1456974#msg1456974 date=1325782157]
So a black person using that word is Ok because it has a different social and historical framework but that rule does not apply to a Latin American using a word which, for him, has a similar framework ?
[/quote]
This.
This.
One million times this.
[/quote]
I'm not saying it's okay but normally when a black (sorry african heritage) person uses the n word it is usually to another black person, on the other hand what saurez said wasn't to a person of the same race or nationality. the equivilent of a manc calling you a scouse bastard rather than a liverpudlian.
I'm not saying it's right.
[/quote]
That's the point though. There's no justification. You can't take offence to someone from a different culture calling you a name that you call your own, it's hypocritical. If you find the word offensive then you help cut it out of society.
It's an offensive term used to describe someone's race/colour/nationality, end of. I'm not going to stand next to a mate and call him a "white cunt" and then suddenly take offence to a person of different cultural heritage doing the same. You just don't do the former in the first place.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1457315#msg1457315 date=1325823933]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1456974#msg1456974 date=1325782157]
So a black person using that word is Ok because it has a different social and historical framework but that rule does not apply to a Latin American using a word which, for him, has a similar framework ?
[/quote]
This.
This.
One million times this.
[/quote]
I'm not saying it's okay but normally when a black (sorry african heritage) person uses the n word it is usually to another black person, on the other hand what saurez said wasn't to a person of the same race or nationality. the equivilent of a manc calling you a scouse bastard rather than a liverpudlian.
I'm not saying it's right.
[/quote]
That's the point though. There's no justification. You can't take offence to someone from a different culture calling you a name that you call your own, it's hypocritical. If you find the word offensive then you help cut it out of society.
It's an offensive term used to describe someone's race/colour/nationality, end of. I'm not going to stand next to a mate and call him a "white cunt" and then suddenly take offence to a person of different cultural heritage doing the same. You just don't do the former in the first place.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=47188.msg1457407#msg1457407 date=1325846409]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457401#msg1457401 date=1325846098]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1457315#msg1457315 date=1325823933]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1456974#msg1456974 date=1325782157]
So a black person using that word is Ok because it has a different social and historical framework but that rule does not apply to a Latin American using a word which, for him, has a similar framework ?
[/quote]
This.
This.
One million times this.
[/quote]
I'm not saying it's okay but normally when a black (sorry african heritage) person uses the n word it is usually to another black person, on the other hand what saurez said wasn't to a person of the same race or nationality. the equivilent of a manc calling you a scouse bastard rather than a liverpudlian.
I'm not saying it's right.
[/quote]
That's the point though. There's no justification. You can't take offence to someone from a different culture calling you a name that you call your own, it's hypocritical. If you find the word offensive then you help cut it out of society.
It's an offensive term used to describe someone's race/colour/nationality, end of. I'm not going to stand next to a mate and call him a "white cunt" and then suddenly take offence to a person of different cultural heritage doing the same. You just don't do the former in the first place.
[/quote]
I agree with that but I know if a black person called me 'n*****' I would be far less offended than if a white person called me the same thing. it's silly, but it is what it is. for the record I think the word should be stricken from the english language, I certainly don't use it but I know people who do.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457401#msg1457401 date=1325846098]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1457315#msg1457315 date=1325823933]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1456974#msg1456974 date=1325782157]
So a black person using that word is Ok because it has a different social and historical framework but that rule does not apply to a Latin American using a word which, for him, has a similar framework ?
[/quote]
This.
This.
One million times this.
[/quote]
I'm not saying it's okay but normally when a black (sorry african heritage) person uses the n word it is usually to another black person, on the other hand what saurez said wasn't to a person of the same race or nationality. the equivilent of a manc calling you a scouse bastard rather than a liverpudlian.
I'm not saying it's right.
[/quote]
That's the point though. There's no justification. You can't take offence to someone from a different culture calling you a name that you call your own, it's hypocritical. If you find the word offensive then you help cut it out of society.
It's an offensive term used to describe someone's race/colour/nationality, end of. I'm not going to stand next to a mate and call him a "white cunt" and then suddenly take offence to a person of different cultural heritage doing the same. You just don't do the former in the first place.
[/quote]
I agree with that but I know if a black person called me 'n*****' I would be far less offended than if a white person called me the same thing. it's silly, but it is what it is. for the record I think the word should be stricken from the english language, I certainly don't use it but I know people who do.
Hypothesise this for one minute. Evras team mates call him "negro" (that's the nay-gro not nee-gro version i.e. Latin American) in training. Woland argues that's OK because they're his mates and thus are entitled to and he's unlikely to take offence yet the very same phrase spoken by someone else may be viewed as an insult. I completely see his point on this. He may be offended if someone less familiar uses it - that's understandable. Would he be realistically offended though to the point where he feels the need to take the person saying this to task over it and create a massive issue? After all, he obviously understands the cultural non-derogatory meaning of it by allowing his team mates to call him it . IF the word offended so much then why would he allow his team mates to call him him it in the first place. Surely if he was so insulted by the word the very first time even his mates called him it he would pull them up. By allowing it to continue he would be basically saying he understands it's not that bad a phrase spoken in such a context and okay he doesn't appreciate it said by someone not close to him and could have easily communicated this. If this was the case, to create this huge flare up over such a thing would be nothing more than the actions of a small minded hypocrite who was upset about having his arse handed to him on a plate on the field, massively overreacted and has tarnished someone as a racist to some forever.
One last point on this. Does no-one else find it strange that few players have actually come out in support of Evra for this ?
One last point on this. Does no-one else find it strange that few players have actually come out in support of Evra for this ?
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1457420#msg1457420 date=1325847184]
Hypothesise this for one minute. Evras team mates call him "negro" (that's the nay-gro not nee-gro version i.e. Latin American) in training. Woland argues that's OK because they're his mates and thus are entitled to and he's unlikely to take offence yet the very same phrase spoken by someone else may be viewed as an insult. I completely see his point on this. He may be offended if someone less familiar uses it - that's understandable. Would he be realistically offended though to the point where he feels the need to take the person saying this to task over it and create a massive issue? After all, he obviously understands the cultural non-derogatory meaning of it by allowing his team mates to call him it . IF the word offended so much then why would he allow his team mates to call him him it in the first place. Surely if he was so insulted by the word the very first time even his mates called him it he would pull them up. By allowing it to continue he would be basically saying he understands it's not that bad a phrase spoken in such a context and okay he doesn't appreciate it said by someone not close to him and could have easily communicated this. If this was the case, to create this huge flare up over such a thing would be nothing more than the actions of a small minded hypocrite who was upset about having his arse handed to him on a plate on the field, massively overreacted and has tarnished someone as a racist to some forever.
One last point on this. Does no-one else find it strange that few players have actually come out in support of Evra for this ?
[/quote]
Good points.
I am also still irritated that there is no limelight on the fact that Evra started the situation, he clearly insulted Suarez quite a few times, and still people go on about Suarez saying this to wind up Evra. It was clearly Evra who tried to wind up Suarez, not the other way around.
Hypothesise this for one minute. Evras team mates call him "negro" (that's the nay-gro not nee-gro version i.e. Latin American) in training. Woland argues that's OK because they're his mates and thus are entitled to and he's unlikely to take offence yet the very same phrase spoken by someone else may be viewed as an insult. I completely see his point on this. He may be offended if someone less familiar uses it - that's understandable. Would he be realistically offended though to the point where he feels the need to take the person saying this to task over it and create a massive issue? After all, he obviously understands the cultural non-derogatory meaning of it by allowing his team mates to call him it . IF the word offended so much then why would he allow his team mates to call him him it in the first place. Surely if he was so insulted by the word the very first time even his mates called him it he would pull them up. By allowing it to continue he would be basically saying he understands it's not that bad a phrase spoken in such a context and okay he doesn't appreciate it said by someone not close to him and could have easily communicated this. If this was the case, to create this huge flare up over such a thing would be nothing more than the actions of a small minded hypocrite who was upset about having his arse handed to him on a plate on the field, massively overreacted and has tarnished someone as a racist to some forever.
One last point on this. Does no-one else find it strange that few players have actually come out in support of Evra for this ?
[/quote]
Good points.
I am also still irritated that there is no limelight on the fact that Evra started the situation, he clearly insulted Suarez quite a few times, and still people go on about Suarez saying this to wind up Evra. It was clearly Evra who tried to wind up Suarez, not the other way around.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1457420#msg1457420 date=1325847184]
Hypothesise this for one minute. Evras team mates call him "negro" (that's the nay-gro not nee-gro version i.e. Latin American) in training. Woland argues that's OK because they're his mates and thus are entitled to and he's unlikely to take offence yet the very same phrase spoken by someone else may be viewed as an insult. I completely see his point on this. He may be offended if someone less familiar uses it - that's understandable. Would he be realistically offended though to the point where he feels the need to take the person saying this to task over it and create a massive issue? After all, he obviously understands the cultural non-derogatory meaning of it by allowing his team mates to call him it . IF the word offended so much then why would he allow his team mates to call him him it in the first place. Surely if he was so insulted by the word the very first time even his mates called him it he would pull them up. By allowing it to continue he would be basically saying he understands it's not that bad a phrase spoken in such a context and okay he doesn't appreciate it said by someone not close to him and could have easily communicated this. If this was the case, to create this huge flare up over such a thing would be nothing more than the actions of a small minded hypocrite who was upset about having his arse handed to him on a plate on the field, massively overreacted and has tarnished someone as a racist to some forever.
One last point on this. Does no-one else find it strange that few players have actually come out in support of Evra for this ?
[/quote]
I agree totally. I listen to NWA and they attempt to justify their use of the word in their song appetite for destruction.
Hypothesise this for one minute. Evras team mates call him "negro" (that's the nay-gro not nee-gro version i.e. Latin American) in training. Woland argues that's OK because they're his mates and thus are entitled to and he's unlikely to take offence yet the very same phrase spoken by someone else may be viewed as an insult. I completely see his point on this. He may be offended if someone less familiar uses it - that's understandable. Would he be realistically offended though to the point where he feels the need to take the person saying this to task over it and create a massive issue? After all, he obviously understands the cultural non-derogatory meaning of it by allowing his team mates to call him it . IF the word offended so much then why would he allow his team mates to call him him it in the first place. Surely if he was so insulted by the word the very first time even his mates called him it he would pull them up. By allowing it to continue he would be basically saying he understands it's not that bad a phrase spoken in such a context and okay he doesn't appreciate it said by someone not close to him and could have easily communicated this. If this was the case, to create this huge flare up over such a thing would be nothing more than the actions of a small minded hypocrite who was upset about having his arse handed to him on a plate on the field, massively overreacted and has tarnished someone as a racist to some forever.
One last point on this. Does no-one else find it strange that few players have actually come out in support of Evra for this ?
[/quote]
I agree totally. I listen to NWA and they attempt to justify their use of the word in their song appetite for destruction.
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=47188.msg1457423#msg1457423 date=1325847537]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1457420#msg1457420 date=1325847184]
Hypothesise this for one minute. Evras team mates call him "negro" (that's the nay-gro not nee-gro version i.e. Latin American) in training. Woland argues that's OK because they're his mates and thus are entitled to and he's unlikely to take offence yet the very same phrase spoken by someone else may be viewed as an insult. I completely see his point on this. He may be offended if someone less familiar uses it - that's understandable. Would he be realistically offended though to the point where he feels the need to take the person saying this to task over it and create a massive issue? After all, he obviously understands the cultural non-derogatory meaning of it by allowing his team mates to call him it . IF the word offended so much then why would he allow his team mates to call him him it in the first place. Surely if he was so insulted by the word the very first time even his mates called him it he would pull them up. By allowing it to continue he would be basically saying he understands it's not that bad a phrase spoken in such a context and okay he doesn't appreciate it said by someone not close to him and could have easily communicated this. If this was the case, to create this huge flare up over such a thing would be nothing more than the actions of a small minded hypocrite who was upset about having his arse handed to him on a plate on the field, massively overreacted and has tarnished someone as a racist to some forever.
One last point on this. Does no-one else find it strange that few players have actually come out in support of Evra for this ?
[/quote]
Good points.
I am also still irritated that there is no limelight on the fact that Evra started the situation, he clearly insulted Suarez quite a few times, and still people go on about Suarez saying this to wind up Evra. It was clearly Evra who tried to wind up Suarez, not the other way around.
[/quote]
evra clearly says something derogatory to suarez and only suarez is punished.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1457420#msg1457420 date=1325847184]
Hypothesise this for one minute. Evras team mates call him "negro" (that's the nay-gro not nee-gro version i.e. Latin American) in training. Woland argues that's OK because they're his mates and thus are entitled to and he's unlikely to take offence yet the very same phrase spoken by someone else may be viewed as an insult. I completely see his point on this. He may be offended if someone less familiar uses it - that's understandable. Would he be realistically offended though to the point where he feels the need to take the person saying this to task over it and create a massive issue? After all, he obviously understands the cultural non-derogatory meaning of it by allowing his team mates to call him it . IF the word offended so much then why would he allow his team mates to call him him it in the first place. Surely if he was so insulted by the word the very first time even his mates called him it he would pull them up. By allowing it to continue he would be basically saying he understands it's not that bad a phrase spoken in such a context and okay he doesn't appreciate it said by someone not close to him and could have easily communicated this. If this was the case, to create this huge flare up over such a thing would be nothing more than the actions of a small minded hypocrite who was upset about having his arse handed to him on a plate on the field, massively overreacted and has tarnished someone as a racist to some forever.
One last point on this. Does no-one else find it strange that few players have actually come out in support of Evra for this ?
[/quote]
Good points.
I am also still irritated that there is no limelight on the fact that Evra started the situation, he clearly insulted Suarez quite a few times, and still people go on about Suarez saying this to wind up Evra. It was clearly Evra who tried to wind up Suarez, not the other way around.
[/quote]
evra clearly says something derogatory to suarez and only suarez is punished.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1457420#msg1457420 date=1325847184]
One last point on this. Does no-one else find it strange that few players have actually come out in support of Evra for this ?
[/quote]
Who has come out in support of Evra?
One last point on this. Does no-one else find it strange that few players have actually come out in support of Evra for this ?
[/quote]
Who has come out in support of Evra?
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1457432#msg1457432 date=1325847922]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1457420#msg1457420 date=1325847184]
One last point on this. Does no-one else find it strange that few players have actually come out in support of Evra for this ?
[/quote]
Who has come out in support of Evra?
[/quote]
Well I'd like to know
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1457420#msg1457420 date=1325847184]
One last point on this. Does no-one else find it strange that few players have actually come out in support of Evra for this ?
[/quote]
Who has come out in support of Evra?
[/quote]
Well I'd like to know
what I want to know is, do clubs educate players from foreign countries with regards to fa rules when they arrive as ignorance obviously is no longer a defense.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457438#msg1457438 date=1325848335]
what I want to know is, do clubs educate players from foreign countries with regards to fa rules when they arrive as ignorance obviously is no longer a defense.
[/quote]
I doubt it but it's clear they should. I'm guessing there's a lot to educate them on. Maybe the FA should publish them in different languages what with us being the most "multi-cultural" league in the world and all that
what I want to know is, do clubs educate players from foreign countries with regards to fa rules when they arrive as ignorance obviously is no longer a defense.
[/quote]
I doubt it but it's clear they should. I'm guessing there's a lot to educate them on. Maybe the FA should publish them in different languages what with us being the most "multi-cultural" league in the world and all that
fa - 'suarez, you are aware that in the fa rule book; rule number 678, paragraph 2, sub section c, point 2 clearly states these words aren't allowed...'
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457428#msg1457428 date=1325847798]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1457420#msg1457420 date=1325847184]
Hypothesise this for one minute. Evras team mates call him "negro" (that's the nay-gro not nee-gro version i.e. Latin American) in training. Woland argues that's OK because they're his mates and thus are entitled to and he's unlikely to take offence yet the very same phrase spoken by someone else may be viewed as an insult. I completely see his point on this. He may be offended if someone less familiar uses it - that's understandable. Would he be realistically offended though to the point where he feels the need to take the person saying this to task over it and create a massive issue? After all, he obviously understands the cultural non-derogatory meaning of it by allowing his team mates to call him it . IF the word offended so much then why would he allow his team mates to call him him it in the first place. Surely if he was so insulted by the word the very first time even his mates called him it he would pull them up. By allowing it to continue he would be basically saying he understands it's not that bad a phrase spoken in such a context and okay he doesn't appreciate it said by someone not close to him and could have easily communicated this. If this was the case, to create this huge flare up over such a thing would be nothing more than the actions of a small minded hypocrite who was upset about having his arse handed to him on a plate on the field, massively overreacted and has tarnished someone as a racist to some forever.
One last point on this. Does no-one else find it strange that few players have actually come out in support of Evra for this ?
[/quote]
I agree totally. I listen to NWA and they attempt to justify their use of the word in their song appetite for destruction.
[/quote]Whilst I love that song, im going to have to revoke your black card cuz. The song you mean is Niggaz 4 life, the title track from the album.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1457420#msg1457420 date=1325847184]
Hypothesise this for one minute. Evras team mates call him "negro" (that's the nay-gro not nee-gro version i.e. Latin American) in training. Woland argues that's OK because they're his mates and thus are entitled to and he's unlikely to take offence yet the very same phrase spoken by someone else may be viewed as an insult. I completely see his point on this. He may be offended if someone less familiar uses it - that's understandable. Would he be realistically offended though to the point where he feels the need to take the person saying this to task over it and create a massive issue? After all, he obviously understands the cultural non-derogatory meaning of it by allowing his team mates to call him it . IF the word offended so much then why would he allow his team mates to call him him it in the first place. Surely if he was so insulted by the word the very first time even his mates called him it he would pull them up. By allowing it to continue he would be basically saying he understands it's not that bad a phrase spoken in such a context and okay he doesn't appreciate it said by someone not close to him and could have easily communicated this. If this was the case, to create this huge flare up over such a thing would be nothing more than the actions of a small minded hypocrite who was upset about having his arse handed to him on a plate on the field, massively overreacted and has tarnished someone as a racist to some forever.
One last point on this. Does no-one else find it strange that few players have actually come out in support of Evra for this ?
[/quote]
I agree totally. I listen to NWA and they attempt to justify their use of the word in their song appetite for destruction.
[/quote]Whilst I love that song, im going to have to revoke your black card cuz. The song you mean is Niggaz 4 life, the title track from the album.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457438#msg1457438 date=1325848335]
what I want to know is, do clubs educate players from foreign countries with regards to fa rules when they arrive as ignorance obviously is no longer a defense.
[/quote]I dont think you need a course to know that you dont call a black man negro and pinch his skin in a heated debate.
'Ooooohhh so i SHOULDNT call women ho's?'
what I want to know is, do clubs educate players from foreign countries with regards to fa rules when they arrive as ignorance obviously is no longer a defense.
[/quote]I dont think you need a course to know that you dont call a black man negro and pinch his skin in a heated debate.
'Ooooohhh so i SHOULDNT call women ho's?'
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1457445#msg1457445 date=1325849591]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457438#msg1457438 date=1325848335]
what I want to know is, do clubs educate players from foreign countries with regards to fa rules when they arrive as ignorance obviously is no longer a defense.
[/quote]I dont think you need a course to know that you dont call a black man negro and pinch his skin in a heated debate.
'Ooooohhh so i SHOULDNT call women ho's?'
[/quote]
Yeah, but if you're just referring to the part he admitted, he didn't call him negro, he called him black.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457438#msg1457438 date=1325848335]
what I want to know is, do clubs educate players from foreign countries with regards to fa rules when they arrive as ignorance obviously is no longer a defense.
[/quote]I dont think you need a course to know that you dont call a black man negro and pinch his skin in a heated debate.
'Ooooohhh so i SHOULDNT call women ho's?'
[/quote]
Yeah, but if you're just referring to the part he admitted, he didn't call him negro, he called him black.
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1457447#msg1457447 date=1325849765]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1457445#msg1457445 date=1325849591]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457438#msg1457438 date=1325848335]
what I want to know is, do clubs educate players from foreign countries with regards to fa rules when they arrive as ignorance obviously is no longer a defense.
[/quote]I dont think you need a course to know that you dont call a black man negro and pinch his skin in a heated debate.
'Ooooohhh so i SHOULDNT call women ho's?'
[/quote]
Yeah, but if you're just referring to the part he admitted, he didn't call him negro, he called him black.
[/quote]
And I think it is also completely misguided to think that the pinch was a racial reference/ action. Was pulling Nani's hair racial?
I think it looks that way if you've decided he was being racist. Evra didn't even mention the pinch. Carlo Ginzberg: "the historian reads into [things] what he has already learned by other means, or what he believes he knows, and wants to 'demonstrate'".
Was he pinching that skin because it was black, or was he acting like a wee bastard who nips people or gives them a sly tug of the hair to wind them up? On the latter count he has previous. On the former, none. As I said above, the misinterpretation of that pinch has influenced the FA's reading massively.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1457445#msg1457445 date=1325849591]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457438#msg1457438 date=1325848335]
what I want to know is, do clubs educate players from foreign countries with regards to fa rules when they arrive as ignorance obviously is no longer a defense.
[/quote]I dont think you need a course to know that you dont call a black man negro and pinch his skin in a heated debate.
'Ooooohhh so i SHOULDNT call women ho's?'
[/quote]
Yeah, but if you're just referring to the part he admitted, he didn't call him negro, he called him black.
[/quote]
And I think it is also completely misguided to think that the pinch was a racial reference/ action. Was pulling Nani's hair racial?
I think it looks that way if you've decided he was being racist. Evra didn't even mention the pinch. Carlo Ginzberg: "the historian reads into [things] what he has already learned by other means, or what he believes he knows, and wants to 'demonstrate'".
Was he pinching that skin because it was black, or was he acting like a wee bastard who nips people or gives them a sly tug of the hair to wind them up? On the latter count he has previous. On the former, none. As I said above, the misinterpretation of that pinch has influenced the FA's reading massively.
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457449#msg1457449 date=1325850445]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1457447#msg1457447 date=1325849765]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1457445#msg1457445 date=1325849591]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457438#msg1457438 date=1325848335]
what I want to know is, do clubs educate players from foreign countries with regards to fa rules when they arrive as ignorance obviously is no longer a defense.
[/quote]I dont think you need a course to know that you dont call a black man negro and pinch his skin in a heated debate.
'Ooooohhh so i SHOULDNT call women ho's?'
[/quote]
Yeah, but if you're just referring to the part he admitted, he didn't call him negro, he called him black.
[/quote]
And I think it is also completely misguided to think that the pinch was a racial reference/ action. Was pulling Nani's hair racial?
I think it looks that way if you've decided he was being racist. Evra didn't even mention the pinch. Carlo Ginzberg: "the historian reads into [things] what he has already learned by other means, or what he believes he knows, and wants to 'demonstrate'".
Was he pinching that skin because it was black, or was he acting like a wee bastard who nips people or gives them a sly tug of the hair to wind them up? On the latter count he has previous. On the former, none. As I said above, the misinterpretation of that pinch has influenced the FA's reading massively.
[/quote]He didnt pull Nani's hair Herr doctor.
Maybe he should be told that in the FA rules you arent supposed to pull hair or pinch then white or black.
Hes clearly confused about a lot of the rules.
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1457447#msg1457447 date=1325849765]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1457445#msg1457445 date=1325849591]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457438#msg1457438 date=1325848335]
what I want to know is, do clubs educate players from foreign countries with regards to fa rules when they arrive as ignorance obviously is no longer a defense.
[/quote]I dont think you need a course to know that you dont call a black man negro and pinch his skin in a heated debate.
'Ooooohhh so i SHOULDNT call women ho's?'
[/quote]
Yeah, but if you're just referring to the part he admitted, he didn't call him negro, he called him black.
[/quote]
And I think it is also completely misguided to think that the pinch was a racial reference/ action. Was pulling Nani's hair racial?
I think it looks that way if you've decided he was being racist. Evra didn't even mention the pinch. Carlo Ginzberg: "the historian reads into [things] what he has already learned by other means, or what he believes he knows, and wants to 'demonstrate'".
Was he pinching that skin because it was black, or was he acting like a wee bastard who nips people or gives them a sly tug of the hair to wind them up? On the latter count he has previous. On the former, none. As I said above, the misinterpretation of that pinch has influenced the FA's reading massively.
[/quote]He didnt pull Nani's hair Herr doctor.
Maybe he should be told that in the FA rules you arent supposed to pull hair or pinch then white or black.
Hes clearly confused about a lot of the rules.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1457437#msg1457437 date=1325848214]
Tim Vickery's view on this.
http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/overnights-mike-graham/blog/2012-01-05/tim-vickery-suarez-ronaldos-illness-and-crowd-funding-corinthians
[/quote]
Worth tuning in to?
Tim Vickery's view on this.
http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/overnights-mike-graham/blog/2012-01-05/tim-vickery-suarez-ronaldos-illness-and-crowd-funding-corinthians
[/quote]
Worth tuning in to?
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457449#msg1457449 date=1325850445]
Was pulling Nani's hair racial?
[/quote]
I think he pulled Fabio's hair mate (or the other one).
Was pulling Nani's hair racial?
[/quote]
I think he pulled Fabio's hair mate (or the other one).
Silly idea but kind of amusing.
An email thats been created by someone on on twitter.
Email this to reportdiscrimination@thefa.com
Dear sirs,
I wish to formally complain to the FA about the behaviour of Manchester United player Patrice Evra towards Liverpool player Luis Suarez during the Premier League match at Anfield last October for using abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour.
This complaint is based on the evidence provided by Mr. Evra himself subsequently.
Rule E3(1) is:
Rule E3, with the sub-heading "General Behaviour", provides as follows:
"(1) A Participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour."
On page 26/27 the suarez document, the very first occurence of run in between the two players occured:
"Mr Evra and Mr Suarez are agreed that they spoke to each other in Spanish in thegoalmouth. Mr Evra said that he is not exactly fluent in Spanish but that he can easily converse in Spanish. For Mr Suarez, Spanish is his native language as a Uruguayan. Mr Evra told us that he began the conversation by saying "Concha de tu hermana". Mr Evra's evidence was that this is a phrase used in Spanish like when you say "f*****g hell" in English, but the literal translation is "your sister's pussy". Mr Suarez did not hear Mr Evra say this. One of the video clips that we have seen, taken from a close up angle behind the goal, does appear to support Mr Evra's evidence that he started the conversation with this comment."
I would like to receive the following from the FA in relation to this highly publicised incident;
a.) An explanation as to why Mr. Evra has not been charged when admitting the offence in question when giving his version of events during the recent inquiry.
(Maybe you believe that stating "Your sister's pussy" to a fellow professional to be not offensive and was spoken by Mr. Evra in a conciliatory manner.
I doubt you'd buy that as a defence though given the fact that he said this in a heated discussion with Mr. Suarez during a Liverpool v Man United match.
Or maybe this remark has been deemed to be inoffensive in Spanish although I imagine this could not be regarded as a legitimate defence either as you have deemed the word "negro" to be offensive in any language or context.)
You have found Mr. Suarez guilty of the aforementioned offence despite the fact he has stated that he is not guilty and there is no corroborating evidence against him despite the word of your "credible" witness, however you have failed to even charge Mr. Evra with the offence even though he has admitted such a breach of the rules through his testimony.
b.) Details of what action will now be taken against Mr. Evra for his self-confessed breach of the rules and how this matter can be adequately progressed so that this type of unsavoury behaviour can be stamped out of the game for good.
By the way, I'd just like it noted that I am not rushing to judgement here based on probability or hearsay but rather on the testimony of someone the FA have already officially deemed to be a credible witness.
Looking forward to seeing justice being done according to your own rules.
An email thats been created by someone on on twitter.
Email this to reportdiscrimination@thefa.com
Dear sirs,
I wish to formally complain to the FA about the behaviour of Manchester United player Patrice Evra towards Liverpool player Luis Suarez during the Premier League match at Anfield last October for using abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour.
This complaint is based on the evidence provided by Mr. Evra himself subsequently.
Rule E3(1) is:
Rule E3, with the sub-heading "General Behaviour", provides as follows:
"(1) A Participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour."
On page 26/27 the suarez document, the very first occurence of run in between the two players occured:
"Mr Evra and Mr Suarez are agreed that they spoke to each other in Spanish in thegoalmouth. Mr Evra said that he is not exactly fluent in Spanish but that he can easily converse in Spanish. For Mr Suarez, Spanish is his native language as a Uruguayan. Mr Evra told us that he began the conversation by saying "Concha de tu hermana". Mr Evra's evidence was that this is a phrase used in Spanish like when you say "f*****g hell" in English, but the literal translation is "your sister's pussy". Mr Suarez did not hear Mr Evra say this. One of the video clips that we have seen, taken from a close up angle behind the goal, does appear to support Mr Evra's evidence that he started the conversation with this comment."
I would like to receive the following from the FA in relation to this highly publicised incident;
a.) An explanation as to why Mr. Evra has not been charged when admitting the offence in question when giving his version of events during the recent inquiry.
(Maybe you believe that stating "Your sister's pussy" to a fellow professional to be not offensive and was spoken by Mr. Evra in a conciliatory manner.
I doubt you'd buy that as a defence though given the fact that he said this in a heated discussion with Mr. Suarez during a Liverpool v Man United match.
Or maybe this remark has been deemed to be inoffensive in Spanish although I imagine this could not be regarded as a legitimate defence either as you have deemed the word "negro" to be offensive in any language or context.)
You have found Mr. Suarez guilty of the aforementioned offence despite the fact he has stated that he is not guilty and there is no corroborating evidence against him despite the word of your "credible" witness, however you have failed to even charge Mr. Evra with the offence even though he has admitted such a breach of the rules through his testimony.
b.) Details of what action will now be taken against Mr. Evra for his self-confessed breach of the rules and how this matter can be adequately progressed so that this type of unsavoury behaviour can be stamped out of the game for good.
By the way, I'd just like it noted that I am not rushing to judgement here based on probability or hearsay but rather on the testimony of someone the FA have already officially deemed to be a credible witness.
Looking forward to seeing justice being done according to your own rules.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1457453#msg1457453 date=1325850611]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457449#msg1457449 date=1325850445]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1457447#msg1457447 date=1325849765]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1457445#msg1457445 date=1325849591]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457438#msg1457438 date=1325848335]
what I want to know is, do clubs educate players from foreign countries with regards to fa rules when they arrive as ignorance obviously is no longer a defense.
[/quote]I dont think you need a course to know that you dont call a black man negro and pinch his skin in a heated debate.
'Ooooohhh so i SHOULDNT call women ho's?'
[/quote]
Yeah, but if you're just referring to the part he admitted, he didn't call him negro, he called him black.
[/quote]
And I think it is also completely misguided to think that the pinch was a racial reference/ action. Was pulling Nani's hair racial?
I think it looks that way if you've decided he was being racist. Evra didn't even mention the pinch. Carlo Ginzberg: "the historian reads into [things] what he has already learned by other means, or what he believes he knows, and wants to 'demonstrate'".
Was he pinching that skin because it was black, or was he acting like a wee bastard who nips people or gives them a sly tug of the hair to wind them up? On the latter count he has previous. On the former, none. As I said above, the misinterpretation of that pinch has influenced the FA's reading massively.
[/quote]He didnt pull Nani's hair Herr doctor.
Maybe he should be told that in the FA rules you arent supposed to pull hair or pinch then white or black.
Hes clearly confused about a lot of the rules.
[/quote]
OK Raphael's hair. It is just *that* pinch has been repeatedly used in media reports, and clearly influenced the FA panel. It is incendiary if you've decided he was saying 'blackie, blackie, blackie' at the time.
Less so if he's just being a wee hair pulling, ear-biting bastard.
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457449#msg1457449 date=1325850445]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1457447#msg1457447 date=1325849765]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1457445#msg1457445 date=1325849591]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457438#msg1457438 date=1325848335]
what I want to know is, do clubs educate players from foreign countries with regards to fa rules when they arrive as ignorance obviously is no longer a defense.
[/quote]I dont think you need a course to know that you dont call a black man negro and pinch his skin in a heated debate.
'Ooooohhh so i SHOULDNT call women ho's?'
[/quote]
Yeah, but if you're just referring to the part he admitted, he didn't call him negro, he called him black.
[/quote]
And I think it is also completely misguided to think that the pinch was a racial reference/ action. Was pulling Nani's hair racial?
I think it looks that way if you've decided he was being racist. Evra didn't even mention the pinch. Carlo Ginzberg: "the historian reads into [things] what he has already learned by other means, or what he believes he knows, and wants to 'demonstrate'".
Was he pinching that skin because it was black, or was he acting like a wee bastard who nips people or gives them a sly tug of the hair to wind them up? On the latter count he has previous. On the former, none. As I said above, the misinterpretation of that pinch has influenced the FA's reading massively.
[/quote]He didnt pull Nani's hair Herr doctor.
Maybe he should be told that in the FA rules you arent supposed to pull hair or pinch then white or black.
Hes clearly confused about a lot of the rules.
[/quote]
OK Raphael's hair. It is just *that* pinch has been repeatedly used in media reports, and clearly influenced the FA panel. It is incendiary if you've decided he was saying 'blackie, blackie, blackie' at the time.
Less so if he's just being a wee hair pulling, ear-biting bastard.
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