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The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

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[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457622#msg1457622 date=1325859515]
there's also;
falcon (captain america's partner)
luke cage
cyborg
simon phoenix (from demolition man)
and then I'm struggling

you see why black people dress up as white heroes
[/quote]

I'm not sure the types of parties you go to but super heroes aren't the only thing you can dress up as at a fancy dress.
 
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47188.msg1457590#msg1457590 date=1325857990]
Has Fowler anything to do with LFC these days? I mean on a professional level is he linked with the clubs?
[/quote]

Not sure, but he's still considered a Liverpool legend and man people still see him as part of the club even if he has no current professional link.
I thik it's the same with other top past players of the club.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457622#msg1457622 date=1325859515]
there's also;
falcon (captain america's partner)
luke cage
cyborg
simon phoenix (from demolition man)
and then I'm struggling

you see why black people dress up as white heroes
[/quote]

You guys have Shaft, who is a fucking dream fancy dress character.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1457627#msg1457627 date=1325859581]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457622#msg1457622 date=1325859515]
there's also;
falcon (captain america's partner)
luke cage
cyborg
simon phoenix (from demolition man)
and then I'm struggling

you see why black people dress up as white heroes
[/quote]

I'm not sure the types of parties you go to but super heroes aren't the only thing you can dress up as at a fancy dress.
[/quote]

LIES!!
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457630#msg1457630 date=1325859631]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457622#msg1457622 date=1325859515]
there's also;
falcon (captain america's partner)
luke cage
cyborg
simon phoenix (from demolition man)
and then I'm struggling

you see why black people dress up as white heroes
[/quote]

You guys have Shaft, who is a fucking dream fancy dress character.
[/quote]

sam J from pulp fiction is a pretty good costume as well
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1457623#msg1457623 date=1325859529]
Have our owners made any comment on this? I imagine they're probably not too happy with the way we've handled it.
[/quote]

I'd imagine they were involved all along the way in handling this (I'm only assuming)
 
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47188.msg1457621#msg1457621 date=1325859443]
When questioned on reports that Liverpool would like peace talks at the club's press conference on Friday, Ferguson said: "It is nice of them to do it through the press.

"You would have thought they would come to Manchester United first. I do not see why there is any need for it but I have nothing to say about it."
Click to expand...


The cunt has a point , it's never wise to go through the press with anything (if that is indeed the case here). But he's obviously having a sly dig also and not really helping things . I'll be honest , the club have clusterfucked so much of the handling of this issue but at the same time i'm tired of the kicking we're taking, especially from media gits who wouldn't know morals if they kicked them in the bollocks .
[/quote]

I'm not sure he actually wants "peace" with us. He first wnated to "kick us off our perch" and now he probably wants to leave us as far as possible behind.
He's taking the opportunity to have a go at us and maybe divert his own fans' attention from his own current problems.
I really hope Citeh twat them again on Sunday.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457634#msg1457634 date=1325859725]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457630#msg1457630 date=1325859631]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457622#msg1457622 date=1325859515]
there's also;
falcon (captain america's partner)
luke cage
cyborg
simon phoenix (from demolition man)
and then I'm struggling

you see why black people dress up as white heroes
[/quote]

You guys have Shaft, who is a fucking dream fancy dress character.
[/quote]

sam J from pulp fiction is a pretty good costume as well
[/quote]

You see, now you're on it. And then you can go with your white buddy in his costume as John Travolta (or your black mate could 'white-up').

There's a number of good Sam J characters who could translate into fancy dress.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457644#msg1457644 date=1325859974]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457634#msg1457634 date=1325859725]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457630#msg1457630 date=1325859631]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457622#msg1457622 date=1325859515]
there's also;
falcon (captain america's partner)
luke cage
cyborg
simon phoenix (from demolition man)
and then I'm struggling

you see why black people dress up as white heroes
[/quote]

You guys have Shaft, who is a fucking dream fancy dress character.
[/quote]

sam J from pulp fiction is a pretty good costume as well
[/quote]

You see, now you're on it. And then you can go with your white buddy in his costume as John Travolta.

There's a number of good Sam J characters who could translate into fancy dress.
[/quote]
Pretty much anyone who Sam J has played could be translated into a good fancy dress costume. Except for his charachter in Coming to America, no one remembers him. You sweat from a baboon's balls!
 
[quote author=Entropy63 link=topic=47188.msg1457231#msg1457231 date=1325805275]
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=47188.msg1457181#msg1457181 date=1325799790]
[quote author=Entropy63 link=topic=47188.msg1457140#msg1457140 date=1325797923]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1457132#msg1457132 date=1325797530]
it was riddled was holes but the fact is this:

Suarez said a term, that is culturally ok in his homeland, BUT offensive to many (pending to whom it's said) in England. He said it once, by his own words.

Hence, despite the process, he did something that is wrong and a ban is fair.

I think both player, and club, will come out of this far far stronger.
[/quote]

1.Why are you so xenophobic? 2.Are the English morally superior to other cultures? 3. Because from the outside it sure looks that way.
[/quote]

1. Because all foriegners are judgemental cunts like you perhaps?
2. Clearly yes.
3. Porque negro?

If you find my response to be xenophobic or superior then you should look up the word irony.


[/quote]
Don't find them offensive at all.
1. Could be., judgmental I can be.
2. Oh gotcha, that would explain a lot of the holier than thou treatment Johnny Foreigner receives.
3. actually I am red, not black. Hell my people got treated worse than the slaves.
[/quote]

Entropy if you read through this thread, granted its fucking huge, but if you do please select out all the johnny foriegner hating holier than thou treatment us "xenophobes" have been dishing out.... then go and have a think.

You will get johnny foriegner hating holier than thou xenophobes in ANY society but speaking as an Englishman (I hope all the other Englishmen will allow me because clearly we all act as a single superior highly xenophobic individual) possibly the only reason I might feel superior is because I would consider it more than a little bit rude to go onto a website where johnny foriegner chats and have the ironic front necessary to call them superior xenophobes.
 
Did Bascombe read what we wrote here?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8992915/Liverpool-to-complain-to-FA-over-handling-of-Luis-Suarez-case-and-demand-reform-of-disciplinary-process.html

Liverpool to complain to FA over handling of Luis Suarez case and demand reform of disciplinary process
Liverpool will seek urgent talks with the Football Association chairman, David Bernstein, to demand reform of the disciplinary procedures that led to the suspension of Luis Suárez.

In dispute: Liverpool are still angry about the guilty verdict passed on Luis Suarez Photo: PA
By Chris Bascombe 11:59PM GMT 04 Jan 201281 Comments
Although the Merseyside club have now accepted the eight-game ban, their anger at the guilty verdict has not diminished and the means by which the punishment was reached remains a matter of dispute.
Senior club officials are to contact Bernstein to register a series of complaints about the handling of the Suárez case, and request a thorough inquiry into how future incidents of this nature are dealt with.
They will even consider asking the FA if it would be prepared to take such a case to the Swiss-based Court of Arbitration for Sport to enable a player to clear his name beyond the English governing body’s jurisdiction. However, for Liverpool to have taken the Suárez case that far would have required the FA’s agreement.
Liverpool believe judging such an incendiary case involving alleged racial abuse should never have been based on ‘the balance of probability’ as the Commission was entitled to do. It could be argued a higher threshold of guilt, as will be required in the forthcoming John Terry race abuse case in the criminal courts, is justified.
In a criminal trial, Suárez’s guilt would have had to be established ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ and, such was the seriousness of the charge, Liverpool’s lawyers believe the same weight of evidence should have been required.Suárez, Liverpool argue, was found guilty on the kind of subjective evidence which would never have been given credibility in a court of law. The club believe Patrice Evra’s allegations would have been thrown out if pursued by the Crown Prosecution Service and believe the same standards should be applied.
Liverpool are also unhappy that the Independent Regulatory Commission, led by Paul Goulding QC, was selected by the FA, which was itself bringing the charges. They feel this represents a conflict of interest where the accusers are in effect selecting the jurors. That brings into dispute the notion of full independence.
Although Liverpool were within their rights to challenge the make-up of the commission and made no representation to oppose its members, they say it would have been pointless to do so because the FA would also have picked its replacements.
For a commission to be genuinely independent, it is Liverpool’s view that the FA should not have jurisdiction on who sits on it.
There are numerous aspects of the 115-page written report which Liverpool continue to find inconsistent with the commission’s findings.
Liverpool are unhappy that Evra was granted three meetings with the FA and given access to video evidence well in advance of the December hearing.
It is Liverpool’s belief that Evra was coached by the FA disciplinary team before meeting the commission, enabling him to piece together his version of events to tally with the footage and appear more consistent in his verbal evidence than he had been in earlier statements.
Suárez, who did not have access to the same video evidence until he sat in front of the commission, according to Liverpool, inevitably had a sketchier memory of what had happened at particular points of the game which had been played two months earlier. This made him seem less sure of what took place at certain moments considered of importance by the commission.
Despite all these concerns, Liverpool still decided not to appeal against the suspension and fine because they felt it would have been an exercise in futility given that they would have been working within the same procedures. A new panel, appointed by the FA, could have reduced the ban but would have had no power to overturn the verdict.
Click to expand...
 
Football Association defends disciplinary system
IN ASSOCIATION WITHPage last updated at 15:52 GMT, Friday, 6 January 2012
E-mail this to a friend Printable version By John Sinnott

BBC Sport

The FA has generally won praise for its handling of Luis Suarez case The Football Association has defended its near perfect record in disciplinary cases last year involving clubs, players or managers.

Its Independent Regulatory Commission heard 473 cases between December 2010 and December 2011, but only two of them ended in "not guilty" verdicts.

The FA's disciplinary system has been in focus after it banned and fined Liverpool striker Luis Suarez for racially abusing Manchester United's Patrice Evra.

An FA spokesman said: "The FA only pursues cases if there is a case to answer. We must remember we are ruling on sporting merit. Let's make this clear - we're not sending people to prison."

Liverpool will not appeal Suarez ban
There have been a number of high-profile cases over the last year.

Former Liverpool forward Ryan Babel was fined £10,000 by the FA for posting a mocked-up picture of referee Howard Webb wearing a Man Utd shirt on Twitter.

QPR were also fined £875,000 after being found guilty of two of the seven charges against them relating to the ownership of Argentine midfielder Alejandro Faurlin.

However, Stuart Gilhooly, a leading football solicitor, described the 99.5% "conviction" rate as "extraordinary".

With none of those 471 cases being overturned on appeal, he said the FA's system needed urgent review.

"A body with that sort of conviction rate needs to look at its procedures," said Gilhooly, a legal representative for the Professional Footballers' Association of Ireland who has worked on a number of key cases for the Football Association of Ireland.

"It is as if you are guilty until proven innocent and that is not in the interests of justice."

Continue reading the main story I'm surprised that the figure is so high. The percentage of 'not proven' cases is negligible
Liz Ellen

Lawyer, Mishcon de Reya
By way of comparison, Crown Court conviction rates were just over 80% in 2009.

Another sports lawyer, who preferred not be named, described the FA as "police, judge and jury all rolled into one".

He added: "Your chances of success before them, Uefa and Fifa are virtually nil.

"I seldom advise clients to have a personal hearing. Sentences can be extended almost without limitation."

After banning Suarez for eight games and fining him £40,000, the FA published a 115-page report into the findings of its independent commission.

Liverpool decided not to appeal against Suarez's ban, but issued a statement saying it was their "strongly held conviction... that the Football Association and the panel it selected constructed a highly subjective case... based on an accusation that was ultimately unsubstantiated".

Those 471 cases do not take into account wrongful dismissal claims, such as recent red cards involving QPR midfielder Barton, Wigan forward Conor Sammon and Wolves midfielder Nenad Milijas.

Warnock 'let down' over Barton red card
The FA point out that there were 50 claims for wrongful dismissals from the Conference National upwards during 2011, with 14 of those red cards overturned.

However, the governing body's disciplinary process has been criticised by QPR manager Neil Warnock after the FA dismissed the appeal to overturn his recent red card against Norwich.

Ex-referees Graham Poll and Dermot Gallagher both questioned Barton's dismissal.

"I'm surprised that the figure [99.5%] is so high," said Liz Ellen, a lawyer for London-based solicitors Mishcon de Reya.

"There must be a large number of potentially provable cases [that may end in a guilty verdict] not being pursued if the FA's criteria for advancing a case is producing an almost perfect record."

The statistics also do not take into account the 'no further action' cases the FA has reviewed.

"I'd estimate we look at thousands of cases in a year that we don't take any action over," added the FA spokesman.

Wenger unhappy with 'naive' referee
"The counter argument is that, if we were bringing charges but not being successful in doing so, that we are wasting people's valuable time, wasting the game's money and not doing our job properly."

After the new year fixtures the FA looked at Warnock's and Barton's media comments following the latter's sending-off against Norwich - as well as Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger's reaction to Lee Probert's performance against Fulham. It took no action in all instances.

The FA's disciplinary panels are made up of three people - a chairman from the FA's panel, someone else who has played or managed within the professional game, and a third person from the FA Council, who has considerable experience in the game.

In the Suarez case, the FA used one of the country's leading criminal lawyers, Paul Greaney QC, with assistance from Dario Giovanelli of the FA. The chairman of the Sheffield & Hallamshire FA Brian Jones and former Sunderland manager Denis Smith were also on the panel.

But Gilhooly questioned whether the FA's appointment system created "fairness".

LIES, DAMNED LIES & STATISTICS?Continue reading the main story Of the 471 cases, not all resulted in a direct sanction - with some involving warnings over future conduct or suspended sentences to act as a deterrent.
Many of those would also have been accepted charges, but with a plea to mitigate on paper or in person in relation to the sanction
"I'm never happy where a body is appointing the judge and the prosecutor. You never see that in a court environment," said Gilhooly, who is a self-confessed Liverpool fan.

Despite the FA's high conviction rate, Ellen urged clubs not to be deterred from challenging charges.

She added: "Even where a charge is proven there is a wide range of sanctions available to the disciplinary panel.

"Therefore, where they feel aggrieved, clubs, players and managers should take the opportunity to put their case forward as this could reduce the sanction from a fine or suspension down to a warning as to future conduct."
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=47188.msg1457772#msg1457772 date=1325869766]
I'm turning up to Drinkies as Dwayne Dibley.
[/quote]

bet you don't need to buy the false buck teeth 😉
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457786#msg1457786 date=1325871234]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=47188.msg1457772#msg1457772 date=1325869766]
I'm turning up to Drinkies as Dwayne Dibley.
[/quote]

bet you don't need to buy the false buck teeth 😉
[/quote] You'll end up with no fucking teeth if you don't watch it.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=47188.msg1457787#msg1457787 date=1325871419]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457786#msg1457786 date=1325871234]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=47188.msg1457772#msg1457772 date=1325869766]
I'm turning up to Drinkies as Dwayne Dibley.
[/quote]

bet you don't need to buy the false buck teeth 😉
[/quote] You'll end up with no fucking teeth if you don't watch it.
[/quote]

😉
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457611#msg1457611 date=1325859188]
For someone living in Greece and that, you have surprisingly little time for the Greeks, Ruari.
[/quote]

Kinda like me living in England then!
 
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1457890#msg1457890 date=1325880164]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457611#msg1457611 date=1325859188]
For someone living in Greece and that, you have surprisingly little time for the Greeks, Ruari.
[/quote]

Kinda like me living in England then!
[/quote]

Ha! Me too Atlas!

*fist touch*
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1458078#msg1458078 date=1325883253]
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1457890#msg1457890 date=1325880164]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457611#msg1457611 date=1325859188]
For someone living in Greece and that, you have surprisingly little time for the Greeks, Ruari.
[/quote]

Kinda like me living in England then!
[/quote]

Ha! Me too Atlas!

*fist touch*
[/quote]And me.
 
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1457890#msg1457890 date=1325880164]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457611#msg1457611 date=1325859188]
For someone living in Greece and that, you have surprisingly little time for the Greeks, Ruari.
[/quote]

Kinda like me living in England then!
[/quote]


I don't know who you are anymore
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1458086#msg1458086 date=1325883378]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1458078#msg1458078 date=1325883253]
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1457890#msg1457890 date=1325880164]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457611#msg1457611 date=1325859188]
For someone living in Greece and that, you have surprisingly little time for the Greeks, Ruari.
[/quote]

Kinda like me living in England then!
[/quote]

Ha! Me too Atlas!

*fist touch*
[/quote]And me.
[/quote]

Nah, I likes Lamb Kleftiko.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1458091#msg1458091 date=1325883465]
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1457890#msg1457890 date=1325880164]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457611#msg1457611 date=1325859188]
For someone living in Greece and that, you have surprisingly little time for the Greeks, Ruari.
[/quote]

Kinda like me living in England then!
[/quote]


I don't know who you are anymore
[/quote]

Haha I was thinking same thing reading Abbott thread!
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1457449#msg1457449 date=1325850445]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1457447#msg1457447 date=1325849765]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1457445#msg1457445 date=1325849591]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47188.msg1457438#msg1457438 date=1325848335]
what I want to know is, do clubs educate players from foreign countries with regards to fa rules when they arrive as ignorance obviously is no longer a defense.
[/quote]I dont think you need a course to know that you dont call a black man negro and pinch his skin in a heated debate.

'Ooooohhh so i SHOULDNT call women ho's?'
[/quote]

Yeah, but if you're just referring to the part he admitted, he didn't call him negro, he called him black.
[/quote]

And I think it is also completely misguided to think that the pinch was a racial reference/ action. Was pulling Nani's hair racial?

I think it looks that way if you've decided he was being racist. Evra didn't even mention the pinch. Carlo Ginzberg: "the historian reads into [things] what he has already learned by other means, or what he believes he knows, and wants to 'demonstrate'".

Was he pinching that skin because it was black, or was he acting like a wee bastard who nips people or gives them a sly tug of the hair to wind them up? On the latter count he has previous. On the former, none. As I said above, the misinterpretation of that pinch has influenced the FA's reading massively.
[/quote]

Vinny Jones caught people by the balls not to wind them up, he did it coz he's a big gay bastard.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1456890#msg1456890 date=1325777257]
I would love answers to my purely theoretical question.
[/quote]

I'd left this thread ages ago.

It would show Evra is not genuine in his complaints. But it wouldn't make a difference to Suarez being found guilty. I'll let you figure out for yourself why that is because you've read the judgement yourself.
 
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