The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

[Oncy]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=vantage link=topic=47188.msg1454069#msg1454069 date=1325511643]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454006#msg1454006 date=1325506057]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=48021.msg1453998#msg1453998 date=1325505088]
The guy from the post has nailed it

It really is fucking comical, well it would be if it were not so serious how a three man committee have done this without a shred of hard evidence or any witness including their own officials or United players. This was patently not fair nor have we seen justice as we know it here.
Those of you who think Suarez probably is guilty should be more concerned with the method used than the outcome, if this method was used to convict any other person in any other walk of life the whining from the Civil Liberties brigade would be deafening.
I am not sure what to think about guilt or not, and indeed that should not come into it, what I do know and and am now certain of is that our man did not have a fair hearing and unless he does have a fair hearing , where real evidence is available and presented in a proper manner or an appeal is upheld then I personally will never consider him guilty, the rest of you can think what the fuck you like.
For you lawyers and barrack room lawyers what about Lord Hewart from Rex v Sussex Justices; Ex parte McCarthy:

“… it is not merely of some importance but is of fundamental importance, that justice should not only be done, but should manifestly and undoubtedly be seen to be done.”

This does not apply just in courts of law but in all conflicts, and if anyone after all these pages of discussion can say justice has seen to be done I would be amazed

It's actually disgusting, and I am amazed that so many posters I have a lot of respect for can argue otherwise.

regards
[/quote]Good post Vlad.
I think my take on it is slightly different in that Ive seen the same evidence you have and have drawn the logical conclusion that I have come to. I dont really care what the FA take on it is, ultimately the lad will miss a few games of football, hes not going the gulag or owt.
Whats of more concern to me is that i dont like him, I KNOW hes a cheat and a liar as ive seen it MANY times with my own eyes, I dont think ive seen anything to suggest I should see him as the innocent party here.
Like I said you ultimately have to make up your own mind about what you think took place as there isnt a great deal of hard evidence, all I can say is it looks to me like there is ANOTHER unsavoury aspect to luis Suarez aside from the ones we already know.

Maybe youre right about a kangaroo court and all that and maybe others are right in that certain individuals care so much about costing Liverpool that they would attemp to ruin a players good name on a whim.
Me I tend to think the lad is a racist who has been fingered and caught.
I think perhaps based on the evidence they have, we could appeal and win as there isnt any PROOF of guilt. But I dont think we should appeal. Simply because I think he did it, and as a club we should have more class than to try and get someone who racially abused another player off on a technicality.
Just my own opinion. Not right or wrong of course.
[/quote]

The FA have said they don't consider him to be racist, PE has said he doesn't consider him to be a racist, yet you think he is?

Even given all the support he has from his countrymen & continent? Even considering PE was abusing him? It was heat of the moment stuff on a football field. His grandfather is/was black. And you think he's a racist?

I've read some bollocks on here before, but frankly that is one of the most absurd statements yet.
[/quote]Fair enough.

 

[Rosco]

All those who think this wouldn't happen in a real court need to go and sit in on a civil case in a real court.

I expect there'll be mass protests at the massive injustices happening on a daily basis.

 

[vantage]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454070#msg1454070 date=1325511900]
[quote author=vantage link=topic=47188.msg1454069#msg1454069 date=1325511643]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454006#msg1454006 date=1325506057]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=48021.msg1453998#msg1453998 date=1325505088]
The guy from the post has nailed it

It really is fucking comical, well it would be if it were not so serious how a three man committee have done this without a shred of hard evidence or any witness including their own officials or United players. This was patently not fair nor have we seen justice as we know it here.
Those of you who think Suarez probably is guilty should be more concerned with the method used than the outcome, if this method was used to convict any other person in any other walk of life the whining from the Civil Liberties brigade would be deafening.
I am not sure what to think about guilt or not, and indeed that should not come into it, what I do know and and am now certain of is that our man did not have a fair hearing and unless he does have a fair hearing , where real evidence is available and presented in a proper manner or an appeal is upheld then I personally will never consider him guilty, the rest of you can think what the fuck you like.
For you lawyers and barrack room lawyers what about Lord Hewart from Rex v Sussex Justices; Ex parte McCarthy:

“… it is not merely of some importance but is of fundamental importance, that justice should not only be done, but should manifestly and undoubtedly be seen to be done.”

This does not apply just in courts of law but in all conflicts, and if anyone after all these pages of discussion can say justice has seen to be done I would be amazed

It's actually disgusting, and I am amazed that so many posters I have a lot of respect for can argue otherwise.

regards
[/quote]Good post Vlad.
I think my take on it is slightly different in that Ive seen the same evidence you have and have drawn the logical conclusion that I have come to. I dont really care what the FA take on it is, ultimately the lad will miss a few games of football, hes not going the gulag or owt.
Whats of more concern to me is that i dont like him, I KNOW hes a cheat and a liar as ive seen it MANY times with my own eyes, I dont think ive seen anything to suggest I should see him as the innocent party here.
Like I said you ultimately have to make up your own mind about what you think took place as there isnt a great deal of hard evidence, all I can say is it looks to me like there is ANOTHER unsavoury aspect to luis Suarez aside from the ones we already know.

Maybe youre right about a kangaroo court and all that and maybe others are right in that certain individuals care so much about costing Liverpool that they would attemp to ruin a players good name on a whim.
Me I tend to think the lad is a racist who has been fingered and caught.
I think perhaps based on the evidence they have, we could appeal and win as there isnt any PROOF of guilt. But I dont think we should appeal. Simply because I think he did it, and as a club we should have more class than to try and get someone who racially abused another player off on a technicality.
Just my own opinion. Not right or wrong of course.
[/quote]

The FA have said they don't consider him to be racist, PE has said he doesn't consider him to be a racist, yet you think he is?

Even given all the support he has from his countrymen & continent? Even considering PE was abusing him? It was heat of the moment stuff on a football field. His grandfather is/was black. And you think he's a racist?

I've read some bollocks on here before, but frankly that is one of the most absurd statements yet.
[/quote]Fair enough.
[/quote]
Suarez has a black grandfather yet can't say "negro" (in Spanish) to Evra who is on Youtube shouting ".nigger". You couldn't make it up. By your reasoning not only is Evra racist against South Americans, but against Blacks too.....

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454066#msg1454066 date=1325510999]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454052#msg1454052 date=1325510075]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454044#msg1454044 date=1325509523]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454039#msg1454039 date=1325509266]
Oncy: I neither said nor meant just players at our club. I meant players everywhere, as my other points make clear. I've even listed some of the worst offenders, every bit as bad as Suarez, elsewhere on here, though I will again if you really need me to.
[/quote]I couldnt care less about players at other clubs JJ. I dont want them at my club.
[/quote]

Which renders any comparison null and void.
[/quote]I dont really understand what you are talking about JJ.
Are you saying it is NOT ok for me to NOT want divers at my club because there are divers at other clubs?
I dont really see how players at other clubs are relevant in a debate about wether or not Suarez is a cheat?
Am I missing something obvious here?
[/quote]

Yes. Your own words earlier were that all footballers cheat "but Suarez does it all the time". There, in so many words, you're saying that he's worse than any other player (not restricted just to Liverpool players, which is a gloss you tried to put on it later). I'm saying that that's bull and that it's indicative of a degree of personal bias against Suarez as an individual which has totally skewed your judgment.

 

[Rosco]

whereas a hatred of Alex Ferguson hasn't skewed your judgement at all

 

[vantage]

Oh dear.

 

[Judge Jules]

Evra tells French TV that what Suarez said to him was no big deal. He then goes into the Mancs' dressing-room. Half an hour later Ferguson marches him to the referees' room to register a complaint.

The answer to your question, Ross, is no.

 

[jimmy]

[quote author=vantage link=topic=47188.msg1454079#msg1454079 date=1325512670]
Oh dear.
[/quote]

Oh dear. Indeed.

 

[vantage]

I want Evra outed as a racist and a prick.

 

[i_rushie]

We had opportunities to tie up the inconsistencies in our statements and oral evidence before the hearing. We failed to do so.

We had opportunities to cross examine Evra and friends, and elicit responses in our favour. We failed to do so.

In every court case, the ones who turn up with knives to a gunfight are the ones who lose. This case was no different. The FA turned up with a barrister, Mr Paul Greaney of Queen's Counsel. We turned up with a solicitor, Peter fucking McCormick "OBE", who advised Michael Duberry to lie to the police in the Woodgate/Bowyer trial.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=i_rushie link=topic=47188.msg1454087#msg1454087 date=1325513084]
We had opportunities to tie up the inconsistencies in our statements and oral evidence before the hearing. We failed to do so.

We had opportunities to cross examine Evra and friends, and elicit responses in our favour. We failed to do so.

In every court case, the ones who turn up with knives to a gunfight are the ones who lose. This case was no different. The FA turned up with a barrister, Mr Paul Greaney of Queen's Counsel. We turned up with a solicitor, Peter fucking McCormick "OBE", who advised Michael Duberry to lie to the police in the Woodgate/Bowyer trial.
[/quote]

Evra was interviwed 4 TIMES while the Video was playing in front of him, so he could say step by step what happened.

Suarez was interviewed ONCE with no Video running.

 

[vantage]

[quote author=i_rushie link=topic=47188.msg1454087#msg1454087 date=1325513084]
We had opportunities to tie up the inconsistencies in our statements and oral evidence before the hearing. We failed to do so.

We had opportunities to cross examine Evra and friends, and elicit responses in our favour. We failed to do so.

In every court case, the ones who turn up with knives to a gunfight are the ones who lose. This case was no different. The FA turned up with a barrister, Mr Paul Greaney of Queen's Counsel. We turned up with a solicitor, Peter fucking McCormick "OBE", who advised Michael Duberry to lie to the police in the Woodgate/Bowyer trial.
[/quote]
Yup, seems we did miss a trick or two.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454075#msg1454075 date=1325512456]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454066#msg1454066 date=1325510999]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454052#msg1454052 date=1325510075]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454044#msg1454044 date=1325509523]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454039#msg1454039 date=1325509266]
Oncy: I neither said nor meant just players at our club. I meant players everywhere, as my other points make clear. I've even listed some of the worst offenders, every bit as bad as Suarez, elsewhere on here, though I will again if you really need me to.
[/quote]I couldnt care less about players at other clubs JJ. I dont want them at my club.
[/quote]

Which renders any comparison null and void.
[/quote]I dont really understand what you are talking about JJ.
Are you saying it is NOT ok for me to NOT want divers at my club because there are divers at other clubs?
I dont really see how players at other clubs are relevant in a debate about wether or not Suarez is a cheat?
Am I missing something obvious here?
[/quote]

Yes. Your own words earlier were that all footballers cheat "but Suarez does it all the time". There, in so many words, you're saying that he's worse than any other player (not restricted just to Liverpool players, which is a gloss you tried to put on it later). I'm saying that that's bull and that it's indicative of a degree of personal bias against Suarez as an individual which has totally skewed your judgment.
[/quote]I think you might actually have gone over the edge into all out mania JJ.
My point was I dont like him. Now you are saying i dont like him!
Good one.
I think personally he dives more than most players in this league (Drogba is the other one i can think of who does it as much) and I think hes a massive diving cheat (this is seperate from the whole racist issue)

In fact here are some posts i made from before Fergie corrupted my feeble mind: (the middle one is Krumps)

Thats because hes a massive diver. He's bound to miss out on some genuine fouls because hes a fucking cheat and refs cant trust him.

I had to explain to my lad today that refs are going to see things out of the corner of their eyes a lot of the time. If they see Kuyt go down like a bag of shite they might give something 50/50 but with Suarez, how could you? He's a cheat.


I wouldnt. I havnt read the match thread but im sure there are fans decrying the ref a cunt for giving him fuck all as they have every ref this season. Maybe....JUST maybe..it isnt the refs?
Maybe we have a massive crybaby cheat who very quickly refs have got wise to.
I dont hold it against any ref giving him fuck all. Hes a twat.

Now youre saying that it is NOT ok for me to think this way because its the way Fergie wants me to feel.
How about the fact that its true, he is a cheat. Im sorry that my opinion isnt seen as correct but im honestly baffled that he has gone from being the diver that i see with my own eyes to 'the same as all the rest'

To clarify. I dont want cheats at my club.
Any of them.
I hate it when any of our players dives. I hate it.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=vantage link=topic=47188.msg1454085#msg1454085 date=1325512946]
I want Evra outed as a racist and a prick.
[/quote]I certainly dont want him at our club.

 

[i_rushie]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47188.msg1454091#msg1454091 date=1325513202]
[quote author=i_rushie link=topic=47188.msg1454087#msg1454087 date=1325513084]
We had opportunities to tie up the inconsistencies in our statements and oral evidence before the hearing. We failed to do so.

We had opportunities to cross examine Evra and friends, and elicit responses in our favour. We failed to do so.

In every court case, the ones who turn up with knives to a gunfight are the ones who lose. This case was no different. The FA turned up with a barrister, Mr Paul Greaney of Queen's Counsel. We turned up with a solicitor, Peter fucking McCormick "OBE", who advised Michael Duberry to lie to the police in the Woodgate/Bowyer trial.
[/quote]

Evra was interviwed 4 TIMES while the Video was playing in front of him, so he could say step by step what happened.

Suarez was interviewed ONCE with no Video running.
[/quote]

Asbo, I can only say if you are ever in a Court hearing and the opposition seeks to admit late evidence, and you haven't had time to review it, don't let your dipshit of a lawyer agree to proceed without taking thorough and complete instructions from you. The fact that your dipshit of a lawyer has not even adverted to using widely available video and/or audio material to corroborate your evidence is perhaps a sign you ought to be seeking new legal representation. He probably hasn't heard of discovery even.

Like I said, knives to a gunfight.

 

[singlerider]

Realistically, the conduct of Suarez as a player, and as a cheat, should *only* be considered in comparison to that of Evra, and not as a testament to his character or in relation to the likelihood of him being a racist (which shouldonly be decided on the available evidence) but as a means of determining who is the more credible and reliable.

So - the two questions we should ask are: is Suarez more of a cheat and therefore less credible and reliable than Evra?

To me the answer is no.

Is there credible evidence that proves Suarez racially abused Evra?

Again, to me the answer is no. Having read a fair proportion of the report, there is no evidence that conclusively proves anything. The benefit of the doubt is given to Evra because he is considered more credible, but this is based on very tenuous assumptions and basically a piss poor defence

 

[singlerider]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454096#msg1454096 date=1325513351]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454075#msg1454075 date=1325512456]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454066#msg1454066 date=1325510999]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454052#msg1454052 date=1325510075]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454044#msg1454044 date=1325509523]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454039#msg1454039 date=1325509266]
Oncy: I neither said nor meant just players at our club. I meant players everywhere, as my other points make clear. I've even listed some of the worst offenders, every bit as bad as Suarez, elsewhere on here, though I will again if you really need me to.
[/quote]I couldnt care less about players at other clubs JJ. I dont want them at my club.
[/quote]

Which renders any comparison null and void.
[/quote]I dont really understand what you are talking about JJ.
Are you saying it is NOT ok for me to NOT want divers at my club because there are divers at other clubs?
I dont really see how players at other clubs are relevant in a debate about wether or not Suarez is a cheat?
Am I missing something obvious here?
[/quote]

Yes. Your own words earlier were that all footballers cheat "but Suarez does it all the time". There, in so many words, you're saying that he's worse than any other player (not restricted just to Liverpool players, which is a gloss you tried to put on it later). I'm saying that that's bull and that it's indicative of a degree of personal bias against Suarez as an individual which has totally skewed your judgment.
[/quote]I think you might actually have gone over the edge into all out mania JJ.
My point was I dont like him. Now you are saying i dont like him!
Good one.
I think personally he dives more than most players in this league (Drogba is the other one i can think of who does it as much) and I think hes a massive diving cheat (this is seperate from the whole racist issue)

In fact here are some posts i made from before Fergie corrupted my feeble mind: (the middle one is Krumps)

Thats because hes a massive diver. He's bound to miss out on some genuine fouls because hes a fucking cheat and refs cant trust him.

I had to explain to my lad today that refs are going to see things out of the corner of their eyes a lot of the time. If they see Kuyt go down like a bag of shite they might give something 50/50 but with Suarez, how could you? He's a cheat.


I wouldnt. I havnt read the match thread but im sure there are fans decrying the ref a cunt for giving him fuck all as they have every ref this season. Maybe....JUST maybe..it isnt the refs?
Maybe we have a massive crybaby cheat who very quickly refs have got wise to.
I dont hold it against any ref giving him fuck all. Hes a twat.

Now youre saying that it is NOT ok for me to think this way because its the way Fergie wants me to feel.
How about the fact that its true, he is a cheat. Im sorry that my opinion isnt seen as correct but im honestly baffled that he has gone from being the diver that i see with my own eyes to 'the same as all the rest'

To clarify. I dont want cheats at my club.
Any of them.
I hate it when any of our players dives. I hate it.
[/quote]

So you'll be wanting rid of Stevie G then?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=47188.msg1454110#msg1454110 date=1325514179]
Realistically, the conduct of Suarez as a player, and as a cheat, should *only* be considered in comparison to that of Evra, and not as a testament to his character or in relation to the likelihood of him being a racist (which shouldonly be decided on the available evidence) but as a means of determining who is the more credible and reliable.

So - the two questions we should ask are: is Suarez more of a cheat and therefore less credible and reliable than Evra?

To me the answer is no.

Is there credible evidence that proves Suarez racially abused Evra?

Again, to me the answer is no. Having read a fair proportion of the report, there is no evidence that conclusively proves anything. The benefit of the doubt is given to Evra because he is considered more credible, but this is based on very tenuous assumptions and basically a piss poor defence
[/quote]Sing ive said many times 'this is seperate to the race issue'
With the race issue, its up to whoever what they choose to believe.
When it comes to him being a cheat, I think its tragic that people are denying it. Sad in fact.

Being a cheat doesnt make him racist. I dont think anyone would suggest it does.
I think people are defending him no matter what now for reasons best known to themselves.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=47188.msg1454112#msg1454112 date=1325514324]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454096#msg1454096 date=1325513351]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454075#msg1454075 date=1325512456]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454066#msg1454066 date=1325510999]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454052#msg1454052 date=1325510075]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454044#msg1454044 date=1325509523]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454039#msg1454039 date=1325509266]
Oncy: I neither said nor meant just players at our club. I meant players everywhere, as my other points make clear. I've even listed some of the worst offenders, every bit as bad as Suarez, elsewhere on here, though I will again if you really need me to.
[/quote]I couldnt care less about players at other clubs JJ. I dont want them at my club.
[/quote]

Which renders any comparison null and void.
[/quote]I dont really understand what you are talking about JJ.
Are you saying it is NOT ok for me to NOT want divers at my club because there are divers at other clubs?
I dont really see how players at other clubs are relevant in a debate about wether or not Suarez is a cheat?
Am I missing something obvious here?
[/quote]

Yes. Your own words earlier were that all footballers cheat "but Suarez does it all the time". There, in so many words, you're saying that he's worse than any other player (not restricted just to Liverpool players, which is a gloss you tried to put on it later). I'm saying that that's bull and that it's indicative of a degree of personal bias against Suarez as an individual which has totally skewed your judgment.
[/quote]I think you might actually have gone over the edge into all out mania JJ.
My point was I dont like him. Now you are saying i dont like him!
Good one.
I think personally he dives more than most players in this league (Drogba is the other one i can think of who does it as much) and I think hes a massive diving cheat (this is seperate from the whole racist issue)

In fact here are some posts i made from before Fergie corrupted my feeble mind: (the middle one is Krumps)

Thats because hes a massive diver. He's bound to miss out on some genuine fouls because hes a fucking cheat and refs cant trust him.

I had to explain to my lad today that refs are going to see things out of the corner of their eyes a lot of the time. If they see Kuyt go down like a bag of shite they might give something 50/50 but with Suarez, how could you? He's a cheat.


I wouldnt. I havnt read the match thread but im sure there are fans decrying the ref a cunt for giving him fuck all as they have every ref this season. Maybe....JUST maybe..it isnt the refs?
Maybe we have a massive crybaby cheat who very quickly refs have got wise to.
I dont hold it against any ref giving him fuck all. Hes a twat.

Now youre saying that it is NOT ok for me to think this way because its the way Fergie wants me to feel.
How about the fact that its true, he is a cheat. Im sorry that my opinion isnt seen as correct but im honestly baffled that he has gone from being the diver that i see with my own eyes to 'the same as all the rest'

To clarify. I dont want cheats at my club.
Any of them.
I hate it when any of our players dives. I hate it.
[/quote]

So you'll be wanting rid of Stevie G then?
[/quote]No. But im happy with what I deem to be an acceptable level and what is OTT and goes from gamesmanship (which to clarify i dont like and wish none of our players did) into cheating.
Steven Gerrard has neer made me feel the way Suarez did when i wrote those posts above.

 

[SummerOnions]

I think the real issue with Suarez is that he is one of our really good players, and if he wasn't, half the people wouldn't defend him.

If it was Christian Poulsen i refuse to believe some of you would give a shit.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=47188.msg1454120#msg1454120 date=1325515216]
I think the real issue with Suarez is that he is one of our really good players, and if he wasn't, half the people wouldn't defend him.

If it was Christian Poulsen i refuse to believe some of you would give a shit.
[/quote]Lol.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454096#msg1454096 date=1325513351]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454075#msg1454075 date=1325512456]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454066#msg1454066 date=1325510999]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454052#msg1454052 date=1325510075]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454044#msg1454044 date=1325509523]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454039#msg1454039 date=1325509266]
Oncy: I neither said nor meant just players at our club. I meant players everywhere, as my other points make clear. I've even listed some of the worst offenders, every bit as bad as Suarez, elsewhere on here, though I will again if you really need me to.
[/quote]I couldnt care less about players at other clubs JJ. I dont want them at my club.
[/quote]

Which renders any comparison null and void.
[/quote]I dont really understand what you are talking about JJ.
Are you saying it is NOT ok for me to NOT want divers at my club because there are divers at other clubs?
I dont really see how players at other clubs are relevant in a debate about wether or not Suarez is a cheat?
Am I missing something obvious here?
[/quote]

Yes. Your own words earlier were that all footballers cheat "but Suarez does it all the time". There, in so many words, you're saying that he's worse than any other player (not restricted just to Liverpool players, which is a gloss you tried to put on it later). I'm saying that that's bull and that it's indicative of a degree of personal bias against Suarez as an individual which has totally skewed your judgment.
[/quote]I think you might actually have gone over the edge into all out mania JJ.
My point was I dont like him. Now you are saying i dont like him!
Good one.
I think personally he dives more than most players in this league (Drogba is the other one i can think of who does it as much) and I think hes a massive diving cheat (this is seperate from the whole racist issue)

In fact here are some posts i made from before Fergie corrupted my feeble mind: (the middle one is Krumps)

Thats because hes a massive diver. He's bound to miss out on some genuine fouls because hes a fucking cheat and refs cant trust him.

I had to explain to my lad today that refs are going to see things out of the corner of their eyes a lot of the time. If they see Kuyt go down like a bag of shite they might give something 50/50 but with Suarez, how could you? He's a cheat.


I wouldnt. I havnt read the match thread but im sure there are fans decrying the ref a cunt for giving him fuck all as they have every ref this season. Maybe....JUST maybe..it isnt the refs?
Maybe we have a massive crybaby cheat who very quickly refs have got wise to.
I dont hold it against any ref giving him fuck all. Hes a twat.

Now youre saying that it is NOT ok for me to think this way because its the way Fergie wants me to feel.
How about the fact that its true, he is a cheat. Im sorry that my opinion isnt seen as correct but im honestly baffled that he has gone from being the diver that i see with my own eyes to 'the same as all the rest'

To clarify. I dont want cheats at my club.
Any of them.
I hate it when any of our players dives. I hate it.
[/quote]

I don't know which post that was aimed at, but it bears no relation to mine. The point, as well you know, is not merely that you don't like him (I've actually said explicitly before that that's your privilege, your desperate accusations of "not OK for me to think this way" notwithstanding) but that "your dislike of him is causing you to exaggerate the extent of his cheating by making him out to be worse than anybody else" - except you've now rowed back on that by conceding Drogba (I could give you Nani, Hernandez, Defoe and others to add to the list, but one's enough to discredit what you're trying to say). Neither I nor anybody else on this side of the debate has anything to teach you about clinging to an argument "no matter what".

 

[singlerider]

The point I'm trying to make is that I believe some of the people responsible for the judgement have probably got similar views to yourself, hence why Evra was favoured over Suarez as the more credible witness, despite there being massive inconsistencies in his statements and those of the other Scum players.

Furthermore, there was a newspaper article they were told not to read in case it influenced them, which they had already read, but nothing was made of this because they said "It's okay, we've not been influenced by this". The process was a shambles, exceeded only by the pitiful defence

 

[Y1]

So, I_Rushie, is there any possibility for a recourse or retrial given the fact we did not do what we were suppose to be doing during the first hearing?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454122#msg1454122 date=1325515350]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454096#msg1454096 date=1325513351]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454075#msg1454075 date=1325512456]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454066#msg1454066 date=1325510999]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454052#msg1454052 date=1325510075]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454044#msg1454044 date=1325509523]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454039#msg1454039 date=1325509266]
Oncy: I neither said nor meant just players at our club. I meant players everywhere, as my other points make clear. I've even listed some of the worst offenders, every bit as bad as Suarez, elsewhere on here, though I will again if you really need me to.
[/quote]I couldnt care less about players at other clubs JJ. I dont want them at my club.
[/quote]

Which renders any comparison null and void.
[/quote]I dont really understand what you are talking about JJ.
Are you saying it is NOT ok for me to NOT want divers at my club because there are divers at other clubs?
I dont really see how players at other clubs are relevant in a debate about wether or not Suarez is a cheat?
Am I missing something obvious here?
[/quote]

Yes. Your own words earlier were that all footballers cheat "but Suarez does it all the time". There, in so many words, you're saying that he's worse than any other player (not restricted just to Liverpool players, which is a gloss you tried to put on it later). I'm saying that that's bull and that it's indicative of a degree of personal bias against Suarez as an individual which has totally skewed your judgment.
[/quote]I think you might actually have gone over the edge into all out mania JJ.
My point was I dont like him. Now you are saying i dont like him!
Good one.
I think personally he dives more than most players in this league (Drogba is the other one i can think of who does it as much) and I think hes a massive diving cheat (this is seperate from the whole racist issue)

In fact here are some posts i made from before Fergie corrupted my feeble mind: (the middle one is Krumps)

Thats because hes a massive diver. He's bound to miss out on some genuine fouls because hes a fucking cheat and refs cant trust him.

I had to explain to my lad today that refs are going to see things out of the corner of their eyes a lot of the time. If they see Kuyt go down like a bag of shite they might give something 50/50 but with Suarez, how could you? He's a cheat.


I wouldnt. I havnt read the match thread but im sure there are fans decrying the ref a cunt for giving him fuck all as they have every ref this season. Maybe....JUST maybe..it isnt the refs?
Maybe we have a massive crybaby cheat who very quickly refs have got wise to.
I dont hold it against any ref giving him fuck all. Hes a twat.

Now youre saying that it is NOT ok for me to think this way because its the way Fergie wants me to feel.
How about the fact that its true, he is a cheat. Im sorry that my opinion isnt seen as correct but im honestly baffled that he has gone from being the diver that i see with my own eyes to 'the same as all the rest'

To clarify. I dont want cheats at my club.
Any of them.
I hate it when any of our players dives. I hate it.
[/quote]

I don't know which post that was aimed at, but it bears no relation to mine. The point, as well you know, is not merely that you don't like him (I've actually said explicitly before that that's your privilege, your desperate accusations of "not OK for me to think this way" notwithstanding) but that "your dislike of him is causing you to exaggerate the extent of his cheating by making him out to be worse than anybody else" - except you've now rowed back on that by conceding Drogba (I could give you Nani, Henandez, Defoe and others to add to the list, but one's enough to discredit what you're trying to say). Neither I nor anybody else on this side of the debate has anything to teach you about clinging to an argument "no matter what".
[/quote]Youve got it bass ackwards JJ.
I dislike him BECAUSE hes a cheat. I dont think hes a cheat because I dislike him.
And I didnt mention those other names because I think Suarez is a worse culprit than all of them.
Drogba is certainly comparable to Suarez. It would be interesting to see over the years what you and others have said in relation to Drogba's behaviour.
Regardless of all that, this is about my club. And as a player at my club, suarez is without compare on the cheating, diving, waving imaginary cards around front. As i have said consistently since the start of the season.
So I guess we are where we are.
Im not saying he IS a racist.
I think its a joke that others are saying he ISNT a cheat.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=47188.msg1454123#msg1454123 date=1325515836]
The point I'm trying to make is that I believe some of the people responsible for the judgement have probably got similar views to yourself, hence why Evra was favoured over Suarez as the more credible witness, despite there being massive inconsistencies in his statements and those of the other Scum players.

Furthermore, there was a newspaper article they were told not to read in case it influenced them, which they had already read, but nothing was made of this because they said "It's okay, we've not been influenced by this". The process was a shambles, exceeded only by the pitiful defence
[/quote]Maybe so. Id be suprised if the FA took into account play acting and cheating IN THE GAME, in this instance. But who knows.
As ive said I think hes a racist. Doesnt mean he is.
I KNOW hes a cheat, a diver and a thoroughly unlikeable fucker on the pitch. If he played for united or Chelsea every one of those defending his (on pitch) antics on here would HATE him. Me i dont have double standards and I hope for our players to not be cheats even more than any other teams players.

 

[Judge Jules]

Nobody's saying he never cheats. That's a rather pathetic straw man you keep trying to use to shore up your case. And if this is "about your club" pure and simple, perhaps you'd care to answer the questions others have tried to put to you about Steven Gerrard's actions - at times - on the pitch.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454128#msg1454128 date=1325516181]
Nobody's saying he never cheats. That's a rather pathetic straw man you keep trying to use to shore up your case. And if this is "about your club" pure and simple, perhaps you'd care to answer the questions others have tried to put to you about Steven Gerrard's actions - at times - on the pitch.
[/quote]I already did. You arent paying attention.

 

[Oncy]

ps-I dont need to shore up anything. I simply couldnt give a fuck if anyone agrees or disagrees JJ.

 

[Judge Jules]

Methinks the Oncy doth protest too much.

And no, you didn't answer the point about Stevie. You simply said he'd "never made you feel" the same way, having suggested there's an acceptable level of diving, which you didn't define. That's no "answer".