The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

[Judge Jules]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Yes, thanks jimmy.

Good post again Oncy, but I strongly disagree, for the following reasons:

1. I care very much what the FA take is. They're the governing body of English football and as such have the power to fundamentally affect what happens to my club. The way they've exercised that power on a number of occasions in recent seasons, culminating in this fiasco, leaves me without any confidence that they can be relied on to exercise that power competently or even-handedly.

2. Luis Suarez is no more a cheat or a liar than countless other footballers. Hold those things against him if you must, but then you'd better be prepared to damn the majority of footballers because there's ZERO justification for singling him out in that respect. To do so is to swallow Ferguson's mind games.

3. We must appeal. Not to do so gives the FA carte blanche to go on shafting us however and whenever they like.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=48021.msg1454015#msg1454015 date=1325506629]
Thank you Jimmy, you see I think some peoples superior knowledge of the law, and their not insignificant ability to argue the point and muddy the waters, (and in some cases possibly a personal aversion to Suarez himself), coupled with their strong feelings on subject matter of the charge are letting their hearts rule their heads and ignore just how this decision was arrived at, and just how much it flies in the face of what is, thank God, our real system of justice, it's like something from Ceausescu's Romania.
They might even have been better throwing Suarez in the Mersey and if he floated he was a witch and if he sank and drowned he was innocent.
I hope we spend lots and lots of money hiring a fancy-Dan barrister to rip the fuck out of the panel and the decision, which I would have thought would be like taking sweets from kids


regards
[/quote]

Get Grabiner in, ask him for his advice and, if he reckons there's at least an arguable case, let him loose on it.

And for pity's sake find a better instructing solicitor than the numpty who's made such a pig's ear of this so far.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1454006#msg1454006 date=1325506057]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=48021.msg1453998#msg1453998 date=1325505088]
The guy from the post has nailed it

It really is fucking comical, well it would be if it were not so serious how a three man committee have done this without a shred of hard evidence or any witness including their own officials or United players. This was patently not fair nor have we seen justice as we know it here.
Those of you who think Suarez probably is guilty should be more concerned with the method used than the outcome, if this method was used to convict any other person in any other walk of life the whining from the Civil Liberties brigade would be deafening.
I am not sure what to think about guilt or not, and indeed that should not come into it, what I do know and and am now certain of is that our man did not have a fair hearing and unless he does have a fair hearing , where real evidence is available and presented in a proper manner or an appeal is upheld then I personally will never consider him guilty, the rest of you can think what the fuck you like.
For you lawyers and barrack room lawyers what about Lord Hewart from Rex v Sussex Justices; Ex parte McCarthy:

“… it is not merely of some importance but is of fundamental importance, that justice should not only be done, but should manifestly and undoubtedly be seen to be done.”

This does not apply just in courts of law but in all conflicts, and if anyone after all these pages of discussion can say justice has seen to be done I would be amazed

It's actually disgusting, and I am amazed that so many posters I have a lot of respect for can argue otherwise.

regards
[/quote]Good post Vlad.
I think my take on it is slightly different in that Ive seen the same evidence you have and have drawn the logical conclusion that I have come to. I dont really care what the FA take on it is, ultimately the lad will miss a few games of football, hes not going the gulag or owt.
Whats of more concern to me is that i dont like him, I KNOW hes a cheat and a liar as ive seen it MANY times with my own eyes, I dont think ive seen anything to suggest I should see him as the innocent party here.
Like I said you ultimately have to make up your own mind about what you think took place as there isnt a great deal of hard evidence, all I can say is it looks to me like there is ANOTHER unsavoury aspect to luis Suarez aside from the ones we already know.

Maybe youre right about a kangaroo court and all that and maybe others are right in that certain individuals care so much about costing Liverpool that they would attemp to ruin a players good name on a whim.
Me I tend to think the lad is a racist who has been fingered and caught.
I think perhaps based on the evidence they have, we could appeal and win as there isnt any PROOF of guilt. But I dont think we should appeal. Simply because I think he did it, and as a club we should have more class than to try and get someone who racially abused another player off on a technicality.
Just my own opinion. Not right or wrong of course.
[/quote]

It's not just about Suarez missing a few games though, it's quite a lot deeper than that.
Just because you personally think it is right Oncey does not make it so.
I thought the weird landlord murdered the girl last Christmas but I was wrong.
On a more shallow, but important aspect top a few of us none the less this could make the difference between us getting fourth place , or not.
regards

 

[Woland]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Agreed, we seem to do better without him. Let's hope he doesn't get straight back in the team tomorrow.

 

[Oncy]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48021.msg1454018#msg1454018 date=1325506787]
Yes, thanks jimmy.

Good post again Oncy, but I strongly disagree, for the following reasons:

1. I care very much what the FA take is. They're the governing body of English football and as such have the power to fundamentally affect what happens to my club. The way they've exercised that power on a number of occasions in recent seasons, culminating in this fiasco, leaves me without any confidence that they can be relied on to exercise that power competently or even-handedly.

2. Luis Suarez is no more a cheat or a liar than countless other footballers. Hold those things against him if you must, but then you'd better be prepared to damn the majority of footballers because there's ZERO justification for singling him out in that respect. To do so is to swallow Ferguson's mind games.

3. We must appeal. Not to do so gives the FA carte blanche to go on shafting us however and whenever they like.
[/quote]Whilst I agree (to a degree) on point one, in that I have no respect or faith in the FA, I really dont care about how cack handedly they handle the affair. IF Suarez did nothing, we wouldnt be here, IF Mascherano didnt CONSTANTLY barrack referees he wouldnt have been there. If we were innocent and being picked on then i would feel aggreived. Regardless of who else was sanctioned.
Regarding point 2 I think you will find Im fairly consistent in my condemnation of cheats and divers. I dont like it when any of our players does it, ive stopped watching Spanish football because it makes me feel sick watching it, and I appreciate its a part of the modern game and all footballers do it to a degree, but Suarez does it all the time. And dont give me that Fergie bollocks, check my posts about Suarez from August and September this season, before it was mentioned by Fergie. I hate the way he behaves, and yes hes a massive cheat and a liar.
I cant remember what point 3 was.....Oh the appeal. I just cant agree im afraid.

 

[jimmy]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48021.msg1454018#msg1454018 date=1325506787]
Yes, thanks jimmy.

Good post again Oncy, but I strongly disagree, for the following reasons:

1. I care very much what the FA take is. They're the governing body of English football and as such have the power to fundamentally affect what happens to my club. The way they've exercised that power on a number of occasions in recent seasons, culminating in this fiasco, leaves me without any confidence that they can be relied on to exercise that power competently or even-handedly.

2. Luis Suarez is no more a cheat or a liar than countless other footballers. Hold those things against him if you must, but then you'd better be prepared to damn the majority of footballers because there's ZERO justification for singling him out in that respect. To do so is to swallow Ferguson's mind games.

3. We must appeal. Not to do so gives the FA carte blanche to go on shafting us however and whenever they like.
[/quote]

For me, your #2 is the most important point in all this thread.
Luis Suarez has been the subject of a witch hunt in the UK, and what is even sadder and unacceptable for me - among some of our own fans.
I read posters on this thread who claimed that he was a liar and cheat from day one and they never wanted him in our club, and even less so now following the Evra incident.

Somewhere up this thread I tried confronting some of them with reality and intentionally compared Suarez's record to what a footballer who is a legend for us has done over the years, yet none on this forum came protesting. Most chose to avoid my question, while the onyl direct response I got proved my point (and yours) of double standards used here.

As Vlad quoted justice should not only be done, but should manifestly and undoubtedly be seen to be done and may I add - justice has to be equal to all (even if they are foreigners).

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Oncy,

The effect of your point 1 would be that our players have to behave better than those of other clubs just to receive the same treatment. Well, f'ck. That.

The effect of your point 2 is that Suarez would have to behave better than other players to get an even shake from you. Ditto.

The effect of your point 3 is that this is, as Vlad has pointed out in passing, a personal vendetta on your part. You don't even attempt to answer the point that Suarez (whom nobody imagines as a saint) is no worse than countless others. So yes, we will have to agree to disagree about that. And how.

 

[Oncy]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454030#msg1454030 date=1325508015]
Oncy,

The effect of your point 1 would be that our players have to behave better than other clubs just to receive the same treatment. Well, f'ck. That.

The effect of your point 2 is that Suarez would have to behave better than other players to get an even shake from you. Ditto.

The effect of your point 3 is that this is, as Vlad has pointed out in passing, a personal vendetta on your part. You don't even attempt to answer the point that Suarez (whom nobody imagines as a saint) is no worse than countless others. So yes, we will have to agree to disagree about that. And how.
[/quote]Im sorry JJ could you please name a player at our club who dives, feigns injury and waves imaginary cards to the same extent as Luis Suarez?
Ps-This is a trick question, because there isnt one.

If he dived the same amount as say Kuyt, Bellamy or Carroll we wouldnt be having this conversation. Im not suggeting that all our other players are saints of course, but the suggestion that Luis Suarez ISNT a massive diver and a cheat is frankly laughable. I have never seen a player a our club who dives and cheats as much as him and the suggestion that 'everyone does it' is seriously and utterly laughable.

I can get the fact people dont think hes a racist, but if you dont think hes a diver and a cheat then frankly you are either blind or delusional.
He IS a cheat. I dont really know how to back it up any more than that.

 

[Asbo]

Yeah he is such a good cheat he comes off the pitch black and blue and doesn't get a fucking foul for them, so did Torres.

 

[Judge Jules]

Oncy: I neither said nor meant just players at our club. I meant players everywhere, as my other points make clear. I've even listed some of the worst offenders, every bit as bad as Suarez, elsewhere on here, though I will again if you really need me to.

 

[Asbo]

Has he ever gone down when he hasn't been tackled?

Or are you calling him a cheat because he exaggerates fouls against him ?

 

[Portly]

Sadly, falling over when you don't have to has become an accepted part of the game. Players consider that everybody is entitled to do it if there has been contact.

Stevie Gerrard, for example, is not averse to the odd tumble. We all think he is pretty OK. 🙂

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47188.msg1454038#msg1454038 date=1325509174]
Yeah he is such a good cheat he comes off the pitch black and blue and doesn't get a fucking foul for them, so did Torres.
[/quote]The irony being he often doesnt get given genuine fouls on account of him being a massive boy who cried wolf cheat and diver.
Im glad you agree.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=47188.msg1454041#msg1454041 date=1325509398]
Sadly, falling over when you don't have to has become an accepted part of the game. Players consider that everybody is entitled to do it if there has been contact.

Stevie Gerrard, for example, is not averse to the odd tumble. We all think he is pretty OK. 🙂
[/quote]

Oh someone getting exaggerating and cheating confused?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454039#msg1454039 date=1325509266]
Oncy: I neither said nor meant just players at our club. I meant players everywhere, as my other points make clear. I've even listed some of the worst offenders, every bit as bad as Suarez, elsewhere on here, though I will again if you really need me to.
[/quote]I couldnt care less about players at other clubs JJ. I dont want them at my club.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454042#msg1454042 date=1325509447]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47188.msg1454038#msg1454038 date=1325509174]
Yeah he is such a good cheat he comes off the pitch black and blue and doesn't get a fucking foul for them, so did Torres.
[/quote]The irony being he often doesnt get given genuine fouls on account of him being a massive boy who cried wolf cheat and diver.
Im glad you agree.
[/quote]

Exaggerating a foul isn't cheating FFS.

Was it a foul?

Yes or No?

 

[25_05_05]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454044#msg1454044 date=1325509523]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454039#msg1454039 date=1325509266]
Oncy: I neither said nor meant just players at our club. I meant players everywhere, as my other points make clear. I've even listed some of the worst offenders, every bit as bad as Suarez, elsewhere on here, though I will again if you really need me to.
[/quote]I couldnt care less about players at other clubs JJ. I dont want them at my club.
[/quote]

Given the belligerent tone of the FA's comment about him damaging the image of English football, I don't think he'll be sticking around for much longer.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47188.msg1454045#msg1454045 date=1325509551]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454042#msg1454042 date=1325509447]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47188.msg1454038#msg1454038 date=1325509174]
Yeah he is such a good cheat he comes off the pitch black and blue and doesn't get a fucking foul for them, so did Torres.
[/quote]The irony being he often doesnt get given genuine fouls on account of him being a massive boy who cried wolf cheat and diver.
Im glad you agree.
[/quote]

Exaggerating a foul isn't cheating FFS.

Was it a foul?

Yes or No?
[/quote]Often he goes down with no contact yes.
Hes a cheat.

 

[jimmy]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=47188.msg1454041#msg1454041 date=1325509398]
Sadly, falling over when you don't have to has become an accepted part of the game. Players consider that everybody is entitled to do it if there has been contact.

Stevie Gerrard, for example, is not averse to the odd tumble. We all think he is pretty OK. 🙂
[/quote]

How dare you Portly?! (...)

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454044#msg1454044 date=1325509523]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454039#msg1454039 date=1325509266]
Oncy: I neither said nor meant just players at our club. I meant players everywhere, as my other points make clear. I've even listed some of the worst offenders, every bit as bad as Suarez, elsewhere on here, though I will again if you really need me to.
[/quote]I couldnt care less about players at other clubs JJ. I dont want them at my club.
[/quote]

Which renders any comparison null and void.

 

[Portly]

[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1454051#msg1454051 date=1325509942]
How dare you Portly?! (...)
[/quote]

You may remember the incident a few seasons back when Stevie went over and won us a penalty, and video replays showed there had been positively no contact. After the match, the referee stuck by his decision because he said that Gerrard had gone down in anticipation of the tackle, i.e. the threat of the tackle had been enough to make him fall over. ;D

 

[jimmy]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454049#msg1454049 date=1325509689]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47188.msg1454045#msg1454045 date=1325509551]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454042#msg1454042 date=1325509447]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47188.msg1454038#msg1454038 date=1325509174]
Yeah he is such a good cheat he comes off the pitch black and blue and doesn't get a fucking foul for them, so did Torres.
[/quote]The irony being he often doesnt get given genuine fouls on account of him being a massive boy who cried wolf cheat and diver.
Im glad you agree.
[/quote]

Exaggerating a foul isn't cheating FFS.

Was it a foul?

Yes or No?
[/quote]Often he goes down with no contact yes.
Hes a cheat.
[/quote]

He might have been diving in his early days at Anfield.
I think he has change, but his reputation is still "haunting" him.
In recent games he's been on the receiving end of some nasty fouls which were waived by the refs.

 

[redblack7]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454049#msg1454049 date=1325509689]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47188.msg1454045#msg1454045 date=1325509551]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454042#msg1454042 date=1325509447]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47188.msg1454038#msg1454038 date=1325509174]
Yeah he is such a good cheat he comes off the pitch black and blue and doesn't get a fucking foul for them, so did Torres.
[/quote]The irony being he often doesnt get given genuine fouls on account of him being a massive boy who cried wolf cheat and diver.
Im glad you agree.
[/quote]

Exaggerating a foul isn't cheating FFS.

Was it a foul?

Yes or No?
[/quote]Often he goes down with no contact yes.
Hes a cheat.
[/quote]



I don't agree.There's usually contact and often plenty of it for which he often gets nothing.
Your position is untenable and reeks of prejudice.

 

[jimmy]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=47188.msg1454053#msg1454053 date=1325510238]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1454051#msg1454051 date=1325509942]
How dare you Portly?! (...)
[/quote]

You may remember the incident a few seasons back when Stevie went over and won us a penalty, and video replays showed there had been positively no contact. After the match, the referee stuck by his decision because he said that Gerrard had gone down in anticipation of the tackle, i.e. the threat of the tackle had been enough to make him fall over. ;D
[/quote]

LOL.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=redblack7 link=topic=47188.msg1454055#msg1454055 date=1325510362]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454049#msg1454049 date=1325509689]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47188.msg1454045#msg1454045 date=1325509551]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454042#msg1454042 date=1325509447]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47188.msg1454038#msg1454038 date=1325509174]
Yeah he is such a good cheat he comes off the pitch black and blue and doesn't get a fucking foul for them, so did Torres.
[/quote]The irony being he often doesnt get given genuine fouls on account of him being a massive boy who cried wolf cheat and diver.
Im glad you agree.
[/quote]

Exaggerating a foul isn't cheating FFS.

Was it a foul?

Yes or No?
[/quote]Often he goes down with no contact yes.
Hes a cheat.
[/quote]



I don't agree.There's usually contact and often plenty of it for which he often gets nothing.
Your position is untenable and reeks of prejudice.
[/quote]Hahaha Thanks for that.
I am prejudice. I really really hate cheats, divers and card wavers.
Untenable....hahahahahahahaha!

 

[Rosco]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1453858#msg1453858 date=1325463870]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48021.msg1453745#msg1453745 date=1325444475]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=48021.msg1453736#msg1453736 date=1325442926]
Im up to paragraph 70 so far. One of the things that surprises me is that, apparently, we agreed to a verdict based on probability. Why the fuck would we do that?
[/quote]

Because all civil law matters are decided on the basis of the balance of probabilities. There is absolutely nothing unusual about it.
[/quote]

This is clearly total bollox. It states clearly that all parties agreed to probability. Therefore I would suggest to you tht we DIDNT have to agree to it.

And has been pointed out numerous times in the report this is not about civil law. e.g. subjective and objective intent
[/quote]

This thread amuses me greatly. You literally haven't a fucking clue what you're talking about yet you'll argue the toss.

I have you telling me that white is black on literally one of the most basic aspects of law there is, I_Rushie who is clearly a legal professional is being told he's wrong by monsiuerdantes who hasn't a fucking notion of what he's going on about. It's laughable.

You're operating out of supreme ignorance.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47188.msg1454011#msg1454011 date=1325506380]
Actually how does it work in a real legal case ? Would one person's word be taken over another's without any other evidence ? Like say i reported to the police that i was racially abused by someone but had no witnesses and the other person denied it , would they do anything about it ? I didn't think so but i'm confused to fuck now.




[/quote]

I Rushie explained it earlier. yes it does work the same.

There is also other evidence. A key point which even Suarez's QC acknowledged but is being overlooked by the majority on here.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454052#msg1454052 date=1325510075]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454044#msg1454044 date=1325509523]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1454039#msg1454039 date=1325509266]
Oncy: I neither said nor meant just players at our club. I meant players everywhere, as my other points make clear. I've even listed some of the worst offenders, every bit as bad as Suarez, elsewhere on here, though I will again if you really need me to.
[/quote]I couldnt care less about players at other clubs JJ. I dont want them at my club.
[/quote]

Which renders any comparison null and void.
[/quote]I dont really understand what you are talking about JJ.
Are you saying it is NOT ok for me to NOT want divers at my club because there are divers at other clubs?
I dont really see how players at other clubs are relevant in a debate about wether or not Suarez is a cheat?
Am I missing something obvious here?

 

[vantage]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=47188.msg1454015#msg1454015 date=1325506629]
Thank you Jimmy, you see I think some peoples superior knowledge of the law, and their not insignificant ability to argue the point and muddy the waters, (and in some cases possibly a personal aversion to Suarez himself), coupled with their strong feelings on subject matter of the charge are letting their hearts rule their heads and ignore just how this decision was arrived at, and just how much it flies in the face of what is, thank God, our real system of justice, it's like something from Ceausescu's Romania.
They might even have been better throwing Suarez in the Mersey and if he floated he was a witch and if he sank and drowned he was innocent.
I hope we spend lots and lots of money hiring a fancy-Dan barrister to rip the fuck out of the panel and the decision, which I would have thought would be like taking sweets from kids


regards
[/quote]

Well Said Vladders!

Regards, Regards.

 

[vantage]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1454006#msg1454006 date=1325506057]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=48021.msg1453998#msg1453998 date=1325505088]
The guy from the post has nailed it

It really is fucking comical, well it would be if it were not so serious how a three man committee have done this without a shred of hard evidence or any witness including their own officials or United players. This was patently not fair nor have we seen justice as we know it here.
Those of you who think Suarez probably is guilty should be more concerned with the method used than the outcome, if this method was used to convict any other person in any other walk of life the whining from the Civil Liberties brigade would be deafening.
I am not sure what to think about guilt or not, and indeed that should not come into it, what I do know and and am now certain of is that our man did not have a fair hearing and unless he does have a fair hearing , where real evidence is available and presented in a proper manner or an appeal is upheld then I personally will never consider him guilty, the rest of you can think what the fuck you like.
For you lawyers and barrack room lawyers what about Lord Hewart from Rex v Sussex Justices; Ex parte McCarthy:

“… it is not merely of some importance but is of fundamental importance, that justice should not only be done, but should manifestly and undoubtedly be seen to be done.”

This does not apply just in courts of law but in all conflicts, and if anyone after all these pages of discussion can say justice has seen to be done I would be amazed

It's actually disgusting, and I am amazed that so many posters I have a lot of respect for can argue otherwise.

regards
[/quote]Good post Vlad.
I think my take on it is slightly different in that Ive seen the same evidence you have and have drawn the logical conclusion that I have come to. I dont really care what the FA take on it is, ultimately the lad will miss a few games of football, hes not going the gulag or owt.
Whats of more concern to me is that i dont like him, I KNOW hes a cheat and a liar as ive seen it MANY times with my own eyes, I dont think ive seen anything to suggest I should see him as the innocent party here.
Like I said you ultimately have to make up your own mind about what you think took place as there isnt a great deal of hard evidence, all I can say is it looks to me like there is ANOTHER unsavoury aspect to luis Suarez aside from the ones we already know.

Maybe youre right about a kangaroo court and all that and maybe others are right in that certain individuals care so much about costing Liverpool that they would attemp to ruin a players good name on a whim.
Me I tend to think the lad is a racist who has been fingered and caught.
I think perhaps based on the evidence they have, we could appeal and win as there isnt any PROOF of guilt. But I dont think we should appeal. Simply because I think he did it, and as a club we should have more class than to try and get someone who racially abused another player off on a technicality.
Just my own opinion. Not right or wrong of course.
[/quote]

The FA have said they don't consider him to be racist, PE has said he doesn't consider him to be a racist, yet you think he is?

Even given all the support he has from his countrymen & continent? Even considering PE was abusing him? It was heat of the moment stuff on a football field. His grandfather is/was black. And you think he's a racist?

I've read some bollocks on here before, but frankly that is one of the most absurd statements yet.