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The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

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Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Have you read the report Oncy? Its got gaping holes in it that you could drive tractor through.

Regarding Dantes fair trial post. The fact that Evra was questioned 4 times to Suarez 1, and that he was walkd through the video evidence. And that tapes and parts of his statement werent released to or legal team until moments before our cross examination of Evra makes me think we have good case.

Will be interesting to see what the club says when they release a statement. Until then we're going to go round and round in circles.

I'll support him until its proven I should do otherwise. That report is certainly not conclusive.

*this is probably what happened*

Greeeeeat
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48021.msg1453793#msg1453793 date=1325452573]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1453786#msg1453786 date=1325451516]
We always needed to wait until the statement came out to be sure of what exactly went on, and although there is still room for doubt regarding certaintly of what EXACTLY went on, I really truly believe youd have to be deluded to believe that Suarez did not use the colour of Evras skin in a bid to wind him up.
The intricacies of exactly what was said and how many times and who supported which claims may never be known as it seems there wasnt any firm video footage.
But a couple of things are fairly certain.
Suarez used skin colour to wind up an opponent (and on that I disagree with the FA and Evra and say that DOES make him racist).
The club has lied to support him.

I think its pretty shameful that some posters on here are still sticking up for him.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt before we were supplied with report, and although there will always be wiggle room (seemingly to allow support to continue for a racist) I cant give him the benefit of the doubt anymore.
I dont think there is any doubt that he used a persons skin colour in a negative way. And that to me is the bottom line.

I'll go further than most though and say I hope we sell him. I dont want him at our club.
I didnt like it when I thought he was just a dickhead and a moan and a diver and an imaginary card waver and a cheat. I didnt like it then. I cant support this player at my club.

I dont believe i am being led by Fergie by the way.
'I dont talk to blacks!'
Fucking hell.
[/quote]

Fucking hell man. You just take the mancs word for this? The honourable evra and alex ferguson?

Suarez didnt use the language to wind him up. evra was the one using bad language to wind luis up!!
[/quote]If we continue to chat, im going to think less of you.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

They've basically taken Evra's word at face value and said that because Suarez hasn't challenged the testimonies of Nani, Valencia et al (how could he possibly challenge something that took place in the Scum dressing room, where he was not present) then this makes Evra's version more reliable
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Nice summary by Ben Thornley Here

Wasn't aware of the bit in bold...

IF you have neither the time nor inclination to read the Football Association’s hefty report on their investigation into the Luis Suarez/ Patrice Evra racism row, let me save you the trouble.

After two months and 115-pages, the entire case came down to one man’s word against another’s.

There was no evidence nor supporting witnesses to back up either player’s version of the events.

And in the end, the much discussed linguistic nuances of the word “negro” and its use in South American Spanish mattered little.

Language experts brought in by the FA concluded that what Suarez admits to having said – “what, negro?” – wouldn’t be considered offensive in his native Uruguay, but what Evra says he hurled at him would be.

So it all came down to who the three-man panel believed.

They decided Evra was the more credible witness, chiefly because his version of events tallied closer to the television footage of the incident than Suarez’s


It is worth noting, however, that while the Frenchman was allowed to give his evidence while watching the video of the confrontation, Suarez was not.

The FA report also claimed that the Manchester United player’s testimony was preferred because he remained calm throughout – importantly, though, he was not the one on trial.

As a result of the report’s publication, most media outlets are now presenting Evra’s claim to have been racially abused “seven times in two minutes” as fact when that is far from the case.

Unlike in a court of law, the panel did not need to be satisfied that Suarez was guilty beyond all reasonable doubt, working instead to a balance of probability rule. And the word “probably” can be found in plentiful supply in the report.

Essentially the Liverpool striker has been convicted on the hunch of three men.

Is that acceptable when a man’s reputation is on the line?

If Suarez used the word negro with the frequency and in the manner in which Evra alleges, he deserves every game of his eight-match suspension.

But that hasn't been proven, with only the two players aware of the truth. And try as the FA might to suggest otherwise, the report hasn’t changed that.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Nah, see I don't buy that using his skin colour makes him racist reason being Evra made reference to him being south American first.

It's like me have an argument with a cockney, & them saying "So what Scouser?" "Fuck you cockney" I reply simply to bring home that point. It doesn't mean I have anything against cockneys, I'm simply responding in kind.

Neither player should have made reference to either point, bu I disagree that referring to a players colour is may worse than referring to their culture or background in any way. It's unnecessary & uncalled for.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

It isnt strange that Evras story was more coherent with the video evidence, as he was being questioned while watching it. Luis was not, he didnt get to see it at all. And Evra was questioned 3 extra times aswell.

If that isnt a wake up call to those who believe this report so greatly, then Im just gobsmacked.
Luis was guilty from the day they charged him.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48021.msg1453801#msg1453801 date=1325454091]
It isnt strange that Evras story was more coherent with the video evidence, as he was being questioned while watching it. Luis was not, he didnt get to see it at all. And Evra was questioned 3 extra times aswell.

If that isnt a wake up call to those who believe this report so greatly, then Im just gobsmacked.
Luis was guilty from the day they charged him.
[/quote]Yeah that and the day he admitted saying it.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=themn link=topic=48021.msg1453792#msg1453792 date=1325452346]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453787#msg1453787 date=1325451732]
Evra has reported Ferguson to the FA amid claims Rooney was dropped as he was suffering with 'a few niggles'.
[/quote]

*snigger*
[/quote]

Hey themn - what do you think of this whole thing?
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

An inordinate amount of shite has been repeated as truth in here, but let's focus on what needs to be done from here on: regardless of how unjust you may think the written reasons are, you cannot overturn them by appeal to the FA.

Your only recourse is to try to challenge the jurisdiction of the FA in the High Court. Which will most probably fail, unless the High Court overturns its own decision in R v Football Association Limited Ex Parte Football League Limited in 1992.

So unless we even obtain leave to proceed with the second option, it's pointless right now to talk about whether or not Suarez said what has been attributed to him as if the decision could still be contested.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

He admitted saying something that the linguistic experts said would probably not be interpreted in a racist way or with racist connotations
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=48021.msg1453808#msg1453808 date=1325454828]
He admitted saying something that the linguistic experts said would probably not be interpreted in a racist way or with racist connotations
[/quote]Yeah I get it mate.
You either think he made racist comments or you dont.
I dont see much point going over and over it now.
You know where im at.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

He also has this option:

• He could bring arbitration proceedings under rule K of the FA's rules. Such an arbitration would be limited to a challenge to the validity of the decision on the grounds of ultra vires (including error of law), irrationality or procedural unfairness. An arbitration would probably take place behind closed doors before a three-person tribunal. The process would take months rather than weeks, and it is likely that the suspension and fine would take effect pending the arbitration.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

regardless of whether i think he should or not, I fully expect him to be sold in January or in the summer. FSG got rid of their start baseball player off the back of a similar situation
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Stupidest debate ever, some people have really turned their usual, sensible, logical personas right on their heads.

Its the most ridiculous, skewed saga I can remember in a longtime, the club and Luis haven't come out of this well, but any one who defends those cunts up the East Lancs as victims or even worse, tries to justify the reasoning of those corupt twats at the top of the English game, is well, a bit of a cunt.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Ill weight in something to this monster thread as I've been lurking in it for so long, this is probably the opinion of most of the people here. Whilst im not convinced of Suarez's innocence or guilt in the matter, im completely uncertain infact, I do know that their are huge inconsistencies in the verdict and report, ones which I want to see clarified. This is the main reason I want us to appeal, not to fight to clear his name, although certainly coming from that angle, but to seek a clear concise answer to this matter, which I dont believe we've got now.

I will take Liverpool's response as to the maters as the truth for now as i do not believe the club will actively support racist behaviour, however i do believe they're the only ones who will fight Suarez's corner, I would try and pass judgement myself however im not ashamed to admit this topic is too complex for me to understand, and as I stated before, there are too many inconsistencies from every side of this report to draw any credible conclusions from it.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=48021.msg1453816#msg1453816 date=1325455536]
regardless of whether i think he should or not, I fully expect him to be sold in January or in the summer. FSG got rid of their start baseball player off the back of a similar situation
[/quote]

I can agree with you and oncy there. But right now the priority is setting the record straight after what the FA have done. We need to take revenge because we're not pathetic weak human beings. Revenge is important. If we take this on the chin it's a sickening through. Revenge must be taken on the FA, on Evra, on Ferguson and anyone else that gets in the way. So to do that, it is necessary to believe Suarez' version of events, to keep him alive, to keep him happy, and run with it.

Of course once it is done. Once those proceedings are over with. If I was FSG my head would turn slowly and sadistically to Damien Comolli and to Luis Suarez. "You didn't expect me to do all of this for you out of the kindness of my heart did you? Oh dear, how very very foolish of you to think that...."
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48021.msg1453821#msg1453821 date=1325455770]
Stupidest debate ever, some people have really turned their usual, sensible, logical personas right on their heads.

Its the most ridiculous, skewed saga I can remember in a longtime, the club and Luis haven't come out of this well, but any one who defends those cunts up the East Lancs as victims or even worse, tries to justify the reasoning of those corupt twats at the top of the English game, is well, a bit of a cunt.
[/quote]

There's no point mate, they've made up their minds. Will be interesting to hear what the club says, until the all this actually a bit pointless. Its going round and round and round.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1453810#msg1453810 date=1325455092]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=48021.msg1453808#msg1453808 date=1325454828]
He admitted saying something that the linguistic experts said would probably not be interpreted in a racist way or with racist connotations
[/quote]Yeah I get it mate.
You either think he made racist comments or you dont.
I dont see much point going over and over it now.
You know where im at.
[/quote]
This thread/topic has polarised the site. It is a shame that posters who used to get on so well are now on the opposite sides.

FWIW I think that Suarez was winding Evra up but Evra was at it with equal venom. He (Suarez) naively assumed that he wouldn't get caught up in this but he has. I don't think he's racist any more than Evra, who is on Youtube using "n*gger". It's all been blown up out of all proportion. But we are where we are.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=48021.msg1453818#msg1453818 date=1325455628]
They did? Who?
[/quote]

No idea mate, heard it on the radio the other day.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=i_rushie link=topic=48021.msg1453807#msg1453807 date=1325454824]
An inordinate amount of shite has been repeated as truth in here, but let's focus on what needs to be done from here on: regardless of how unjust you may think the written reasons are, you cannot overturn them by appeal to the FA.

Your only recourse is to try to challenge the jurisdiction of the FA in the High Court. Which will most probably fail, unless the High Court overturns its own decision in R v Football Association Limited Ex Parte Football League Limited in 1992.

So unless we even obtain leave to proceed with the second option, it's pointless right now to talk about whether or not Suarez said what has been attributed to him as if the decision could still be contested.
[/quote]

Yes you can overturn them. Our lawyer can't do it I'll give you that. But I most certainly could because I wouldn't give the FA any wiggle room at all. What you are assuming is a normal lawyer who makes an appeal in good faith.... then of course they will find an excuse to dismiss it. That case you found just shows it is difficult to bring a judicial review against them, but doesn't rule it out. Anyway if the FA is ruled to be a private entity, then that's ok that's fine we don't mind contesting it on that basis either.

But what you are suggesting, that we have no legal recourse on this anywhere is ridiculous. I have a problem believing that can be the case. And if that is the case then it's still worth pursuing. A definitive judgment saying the FA have that kind of power would be an important thing to have. It will make every club in the country take notice. And it will be the end of the FA. A couple of years after that ruling, the clubs in the premier league will say you know what, fuck off we're gonna make our own league. Thanks for the last 100 years. Bye now.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

I'm so happy I'm on the fence


I'm despised by all
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

i dont think its fair to have a go at evra when nobody knows what happend, fair enought have a go at th fa for working without enough evidence, and why would anyone have a go at fergie? whats he done wrong in this situation? i mean i dont like the guy but it just reaches childish levels sometimes with people tryna pass the buck
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48021.msg1453805#msg1453805 date=1325454669]
[quote author=themn link=topic=48021.msg1453792#msg1453792 date=1325452346]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453787#msg1453787 date=1325451732]
Evra has reported Ferguson to the FA amid claims Rooney was dropped as he was suffering with 'a few niggles'.
[/quote]

*snigger*
[/quote]

Hey themn - what do you think of this whole thing?
[/quote]

It's a big stinking shitty mess and it's making my head hurt.

To try to explain how I feel would take ages and, as you know, I don't do long posts.

I do wonder about the sanity of a few posters here though.

This thread is like Michael Myers.
It won't fucking die.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=vantage link=topic=48021.msg1453827#msg1453827 date=1325456928]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1453810#msg1453810 date=1325455092]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=48021.msg1453808#msg1453808 date=1325454828]
He admitted saying something that the linguistic experts said would probably not be interpreted in a racist way or with racist connotations
[/quote]Yeah I get it mate.
You either think he made racist comments or you dont.
I dont see much point going over and over it now.
You know where im at.
[/quote]
This thread/topic has polarised the site. It is a shame that posters who used to get on so well are now on the opposite sides.

FWIW I think that Suarez was winding Evra up but Evra was at it with equal venom. He (Suarez) naively assumed that he wouldn't get caught up in this but he has. I don't think he's racist any more than Evra, who is on Youtube using "n*gger". It's all been blown up out of all proportion. But we are where we are.
[/quote]I dont think its all that important mate. I disagree with lots of posters about lots of things. I dont dislike them for their opinions.
And I dont hold grudges or carry on debates into other debates.
I think hes a prick. Mark1975 (eg) doesnt. He thinks im a bit of a cunt for 'buying' what those 'cunts up the road' are feeding me, and i think he (eg) is being overly patriotic and defending the undefendable because its out player. I dont hate Mark and wont fall out with him over it or owt.
Opinions vary.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1453841#msg1453841 date=1325458623]
[quote author=vantage link=topic=48021.msg1453827#msg1453827 date=1325456928]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1453810#msg1453810 date=1325455092]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=48021.msg1453808#msg1453808 date=1325454828]
He admitted saying something that the linguistic experts said would probably not be interpreted in a racist way or with racist connotations
[/quote]Yeah I get it mate.
You either think he made racist comments or you dont.
I dont see much point going over and over it now.
You know where im at.
[/quote]
This thread/topic has polarised the site. It is a shame that posters who used to get on so well are now on the opposite sides.

FWIW I think that Suarez was winding Evra up but Evra was at it with equal venom. He (Suarez) naively assumed that he wouldn't get caught up in this but he has. I don't think he's racist any more than Evra, who is on Youtube using "n*gger". It's all been blown up out of all proportion. But we are where we are.
[/quote]I dont think its all that important mate. I disagree with lots of posters about lots of things. I dont dislike them for their opinions.
And I dont hold grudges or carry on debates into other debates.
I think hes a prick. Mark1975 (eg) doesnt. He thinks im a bit of a cunt for 'buying' what those 'cunts up the road' are feeding me, and i think he (eg) is being overly patriotic and defending the undefendable because its out player. I dont hate Mark and wont fall out with him over it or owt.
Opinions vary.
[/quote]

That's ok for you but I would prefer a bit of ethnic cleansing around here, and if you're not for it you're against it, and that's twice as bad.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453842#msg1453842 date=1325458907]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1453841#msg1453841 date=1325458623]
[quote author=vantage link=topic=48021.msg1453827#msg1453827 date=1325456928]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1453810#msg1453810 date=1325455092]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=48021.msg1453808#msg1453808 date=1325454828]
He admitted saying something that the linguistic experts said would probably not be interpreted in a racist way or with racist connotations
[/quote]Yeah I get it mate.
You either think he made racist comments or you dont.
I dont see much point going over and over it now.
You know where im at.
[/quote]
This thread/topic has polarised the site. It is a shame that posters who used to get on so well are now on the opposite sides.

FWIW I think that Suarez was winding Evra up but Evra was at it with equal venom. He (Suarez) naively assumed that he wouldn't get caught up in this but he has. I don't think he's racist any more than Evra, who is on Youtube using "n*gger". It's all been blown up out of all proportion. But we are where we are.
[/quote]I dont think its all that important mate. I disagree with lots of posters about lots of things. I dont dislike them for their opinions.
And I dont hold grudges or carry on debates into other debates.
I think hes a prick. Mark1975 (eg) doesnt. He thinks im a bit of a cunt for 'buying' what those 'cunts up the road' are feeding me, and i think he (eg) is being overly patriotic and defending the undefendable because its out player. I dont hate Mark and wont fall out with him over it or owt.
Opinions vary.
[/quote]

That's ok for you but I would prefer a bit of ethnic cleansing around here, and if you're not for it you're against it, and that's twice as bad.
[/quote]Lol. Surely we're fighting for UNethnic cleansing. Its the zealots I want out.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

I'm not sticking up for anyone up the road, I'm not believing everything they said all I'm doing is not doing the same for Suarez.

Re evra as a character can't trust him cos the twat lied and cheats and well suarez also has a chequered past, but we will no doubt back him cos our own and we fucking stick up for our own... Until they turn around and speak ill of the club or something.

Iv said I don't believe everything Suarez and fergie said it's kinda stupid to do so, but when our manager player and whatever the heck comoli is can't get a simple story straight you gota start questioning stuff!
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Atlas link=topic=48021.msg1453844#msg1453844 date=1325459277]
I'm not sticking up for anyone up the road, I'm not believing everything they said all I'm doing is not doing the same for Suarez.

Re evra as a character can't trust him cos the twat lied and cheats and well suarez also has a chequered past, but we will no doubt back him cos our own and we fucking stick up for our own... Until they turn around and speak ill of the club or something.

Iv said I don't believe everything Suarez and fergie said it's kinda stupid to do so, but when our manager player and whatever the heck comoli is can't get a simple story straight you gota start questioning stuff!


[/quote]

when has evra lied? he's never accused anyone of racism before this case, i dont know why so many of our fans, and our own club going by their statement, find that so hard to accept
 
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