The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

[Woland]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=jimmy link=topic=48021.msg1453593#msg1453593 date=1325432983]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453586#msg1453586 date=1325432429]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=48021.msg1453568#msg1453568 date=1325431649]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453563#msg1453563 date=1325431256]
I reckon he's doomed here and I don't think it's because of a conspiracy. I think it's because he did a few stupid things.
[/quote]

Steven Gerrard hit a DJ and was filmed doing so. It's a stupid thing to do, isn't it? Not sure if it isn't worse that what Suarez did.
He's not doomed here and Suarez is?
Why?!

Eric Cantona kicked a Crystal Palace fan during a football match. He was severely punished but was not doomed at Old Trafford and Suarez is.
Why?
[/quote]

Gerrard wasn't convicted. Even if he was he was it was an off the field thing, didn't make a liar of him, and Gerrard isn't just a part of LFC, he is LFC. Cantona got a break because everyone secretly loved what he did. Suarez already has previous for biting and cheating and he comes out of this looking even scummier, like some idiot in a timewarp.

Maybe everyone will forget about it. Doubt it.
[/quote]

1. Thanks for the honest response - especially the bolded part. However, this is no justice, although it's wrapped in a nice "package" to show it as justice.
2. Suarez had the biting issue - is it less severe than hitting a DJ in a pub? Gerrard was not convicted, but the cameras captured what he did. What does it say about the British justice?
3. Suarez cheating - are you referring to him handling the ball in the world cup? People in Uruguay idolize him for that. I'm sure you'd idolize Gerrard if he did it to get England to the WC semi final.
are you referring to his dives? Gerrard dives, Torres dives. Nobody here ever complained about it.
4. Everybody secretly loved what Cantona did. Why? because he punished a supporter who abused him? Well, why did Suarez get no sympathy after showing the finger to the Fulham fans who were taunting and abusing him?

Double standards? All the way!
[/quote]

Of course double standards are at play, by just about everyone. The only people in the world who think Suarez is innocent are Liverpool fans. What does that tell you? Is that a coincidence? A massive coincidence, or double standards?

Suarez came with a reputation, I didn't think he's manage to expand on it so quickly. I thought what he did for Uruguay with the handball was brilliant - but it WAS cheating. He IS a cheat. And he bites people. Now it seems he's also at best a really stupid twat who uses racist terms but doesn't realise he's being offensive, at worst a lying bastard racist.

I had sympathy when Suarez flicked the vees at Fulham. I loved it when Carra threw a quid at the Arsenal fans. I also thought Cantona was ace when he kung fu'd that idiot - but they were all ended up in the shit to varying degrees.

 

[Asbo]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

I am stunned at the fans taking Evra's word for it, what the fuck?

Did anyone read that article a couple of points up about the coin toss? He was LYING to gain an advantage!

Evra showed MORE reaction to that than he did to his saying he was called Nigger 7 times in the goalmouth, he accused the ref of booking him because he was black, he said Suarez called him Nigger 10 times after the games and reduced it to being called Negro 5 times, yet the FA say his version is more consiostant than Suarez, so he must be telling the truth and Suarez lying!

This is THE SAME FA that accused him of telling UNTRUTHS during the Chelsea groundskeeper inquiry!

Evra is a fucking LIAR pure and simple, and he doesn't mind destroying another persons life doing it, its FUCKING SCANDALOUS!!!

 

[jimmy]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453600#msg1453600 date=1325433521]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=48021.msg1453593#msg1453593 date=1325432983]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453586#msg1453586 date=1325432429]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=48021.msg1453568#msg1453568 date=1325431649]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453563#msg1453563 date=1325431256]
I reckon he's doomed here and I don't think it's because of a conspiracy. I think it's because he did a few stupid things.
[/quote]

Steven Gerrard hit a DJ and was filmed doing so. It's a stupid thing to do, isn't it? Not sure if it isn't worse that what Suarez did.
He's not doomed here and Suarez is?
Why?!

Eric Cantona kicked a Crystal Palace fan during a football match. He was severely punished but was not doomed at Old Trafford and Suarez is.
Why?
[/quote]

Gerrard wasn't convicted. Even if he was he was it was an off the field thing, didn't make a liar of him, and Gerrard isn't just a part of LFC, he is LFC. Cantona got a break because everyone secretly loved what he did. Suarez already has previous for biting and cheating and he comes out of this looking even scummier, like some idiot in a timewarp.

Maybe everyone will forget about it. Doubt it.
[/quote]

1. Thanks for the honest response - especially the bolded part. However, this is no justice, although it's wrapped in a nice "package" to show it as justice.
2. Suarez had the biting issue - is it less severe than hitting a DJ in a pub? Gerrard was not convicted, but the cameras captured what he did. What does it say about the British justice?
3. Suarez cheating - are you referring to him handling the ball in the world cup? People in Uruguay idolize him for that. I'm sure you'd idolize Gerrard if he did it to get England to the WC semi final.
are you referring to his dives? Gerrard dives, Torres dives. Nobody here ever complained about it.
4. Everybody secretly loved what Cantona did. Why? because he punished a supporter who abused him? Well, why did Suarez get no sympathy after showing the finger to the Fulham fans who were taunting and abusing him?

Double standards? All the way!
[/quote]

Of course double standards are at play, by just about everyone. The only people in the world who think Suarez is innocent are Liverpool fans. What does that tell you? Is that a coincidence? A massive coincidence, or double standards?

Suarez came with a reputation, I didn't think he's manage to expand on it so quickly. I thought what he did for Uruguay with the handball was brilliant - but it WAS cheating. He IS a cheat. And he bites people. Now it seems he's also at best a really stupid twat who uses racist terms but doesn't realise he's being offensive, at worst a lying bastard racist.

I had sympathy when Suarez flicked the vees at Fulham. I loved it when Carra threw a quid at the Arsenal fans. I also thought Cantona was ace when he kung fu'd that idiot - but they were all ended up in the shit to varying degrees.
[/quote]

How do you know that "The only people in the world who think Suarez is innocent are Liverpool fans"? Is this a fact? Was it checked? or is it something you are assuming? I'd be curious to see some backing of this claim.

So you thought what he did for Uruguay was brilliant yet you cannot accept it. Of course it's cheating, but it got punished - he sacrificed himself for the sake of his country's success. Again, would you treat Gerrard differently had he done it for England? Liverpool? BTW - you'd probably find out that the only people in the world who do not think Gerrard dived for the penalty in Istanbul are Liverpool fans. Does it make any difference to you? (hint - I don't give a shit).

"He bites people" - he did it once, why are you using present simple here? Should you not use the past term? Roy Keane tried to end than guy's career. He did it more than once. yet he was not "doomed" in England. Nani accused Carragher for trying to end his career with that tackle yet Carra is our hero.

Double standards are at play by just about everyone, but please note - people normally use them in favour of their own players. This is certainly not the case here. You are all over YOUR player ignoring the fact that other players got away with worse things.

 

[jimmy]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=48021.msg1453602#msg1453602 date=1325433679]
I am stunned at the fans taking Evra's word for it, what the fuck?

Did anyone read that article a couple of points up about the coin toss? He was LYING to gain an advantage!

Evra showed MORE reaction to that than he did to his saying he was called **** 7 times in the goalmouth, he accused the ref of booking him because he was black, he said Suarez called him **** 10 times after the games and reduced it to being called Negro 5 times, yet the FA say his version is more consiostant than Suarez, so he must be telling the truth and Suarez lying!

This is THE SAME FA that accused him of telling UNTRUTHS during the Chelsea groundskeeper inquiry!

Evra is a fucking LIAR pure and simple, and he doesn't mind destroying another persons life doing it, its FUCKING SCANDALOUS!!!
[/quote]

You can add Evra's behaviour during the world cup to the total account.

Yet, Liverpool fans are accepting his version simply because an FA commission did.
This is even more scandalous.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

What is the coin toss thing?

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Oh and slightly off topic, but wasn't evra racist towards some white French player at the world cup? Or homophobic? Or both?

 

[Molbystwin]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=48021.msg1453602#msg1453602 date=1325433679]
I am stunned at the fans taking Evra's word for it, what the fuck?

Did anyone read that article a couple of points up about the coin toss? He was LYING to gain an advantage!

Evra showed MORE reaction to that than he did to his saying he was called **** 7 times in the goalmouth, he accused the ref of booking him because he was black, he said Suarez called him **** 10 times after the games and reduced it to being called Negro 5 times, yet the FA say his version is more consiostant than Suarez, so he must be telling the truth and Suarez lying!

This is THE SAME FA that accused him of telling UNTRUTHS during the Chelsea groundskeeper inquiry!

Evra is a fucking LIAR pure and simple, and he doesn't mind destroying another persons life doing it, its FUCKING SCANDALOUS!!!
[/quote]

Yeah i read it.... WHO the fuck is brian kettle? WHERE the fuck does it say in the report "concha de tu hermana?" .... what??? where did EVra accuse the ref of punishing him for being black??? WHAT??

... and as for the coin toss bit, GIVE A FUCK.

Its fucking bollox is what it is. Pure Bollox.

 

[Hansern]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

What about this then:

That para 278 is one which should be pulled apart if we appeal.

Remember why the panel decided there was a 6th use of the word negro?

They said that they could tell from Evra's reaction, after the ref blew the whistle on the abortive corner, that Suarez had said something bad, and they decided this was "negro". ie despite Evra not making that claim, the panel decided that Suarez said "negro" and Evra heard him and reacted.
In that case, Evra heard the word "negro" at least 6 times, not 5. So how does the fact that an LFC employee heard Ferguson tell the ref that the word n***** been used 5 times act as corroboration for the finding that the word negro was used 6 times? Bizarre.

 

[King Binny]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

goalmouth incident - pt 85 onwards

Evra's version of events

Evra Why did you kick me?

Suarez Because you are black.

Evra Say that to me again. I'm going to punch you.

Suarez I don't speak to blacks.

Evra I'm going to punch you.

Suarez OK, blackie, blackie, blackie. Suarez then touched Evra's arm, gesturing at his skin.

Evra Ref, ref, he just called me a fucking black.

 

[Molbystwin]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48021.msg1453618#msg1453618 date=1325435312]
What about this then:

That para 278 is one which should be pulled apart if we appeal.

Remember why the panel decided there was a 6th use of the word negro?

They said that they could tell from Evra's reaction, after the ref blew the whistle on the abortive corner, that Suarez had said something bad, and they decided this was "negro". ie despite Evra not making that claim, the panel decided that Suarez said "negro" and Evra heard him and reacted.
In that case, Evra heard the word "negro" at least 6 times, not 5. So how does the fact that an LFC employee heard Ferguson tell the ref that the word n***** been used 5 times act as corroboration for the finding that the word negro was used 6 times? Bizarre.
[/quote]

Do you think that Suarez racially abused Evra yes or no? How many times 5 6 or 7 is hardly the point is it, I don't suppose Evra literally counted it out. If they caught him on camera saying whats reported then regardless of shenanigans he is out of order and deserves the ban. I dont care if hes deemed a racist or even if he is a racist... i couldnt give a fuck about that to be honest its down to his own conscience.... none of this shit has helped.... none of it.

You cannot drag the shirt through the muck like that you just cant.

I have no doubt about Evra being a cunt but Suarez was seemingly being a dick and he got done for it.

Coin flips and negro counts for fucks sake.... fuck off....it is no defence AT ALL.

 

[Y1]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=jimmy link=topic=48021.msg1453568#msg1453568 date=1325431649]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453563#msg1453563 date=1325431256]
I reckon he's doomed here and I don't think it's because of a conspiracy. I think it's because he did a few stupid things.
[/quote]

Steven Gerrard hit a DJ and was filmed doing so. It's a stupid thing to do, isn't it? Not sure if it isn't worse that what Suarez did.
He's not doomed here and Suarez is?
Why?!

Eric Cantona kicked a Crystal Palace fan during a football match. He was severely punished but was not doomed at Old Trafford and Suarez is.
Why?
[/quote]

Good questions Jim.

 

[Woland]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=jimmy link=topic=48021.msg1453609#msg1453609 date=1325434509]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453600#msg1453600 date=1325433521]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=48021.msg1453593#msg1453593 date=1325432983]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453586#msg1453586 date=1325432429]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=48021.msg1453568#msg1453568 date=1325431649]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453563#msg1453563 date=1325431256]
I reckon he's doomed here and I don't think it's because of a conspiracy. I think it's because he did a few stupid things.
[/quote]

Steven Gerrard hit a DJ and was filmed doing so. It's a stupid thing to do, isn't it? Not sure if it isn't worse that what Suarez did.
He's not doomed here and Suarez is?
Why?!

Eric Cantona kicked a Crystal Palace fan during a football match. He was severely punished but was not doomed at Old Trafford and Suarez is.
Why?
[/quote]

Gerrard wasn't convicted. Even if he was he was it was an off the field thing, didn't make a liar of him, and Gerrard isn't just a part of LFC, he is LFC. Cantona got a break because everyone secretly loved what he did. Suarez already has previous for biting and cheating and he comes out of this looking even scummier, like some idiot in a timewarp.

Maybe everyone will forget about it. Doubt it.
[/quote]

1. Thanks for the honest response - especially the bolded part. However, this is no justice, although it's wrapped in a nice "package" to show it as justice.
2. Suarez had the biting issue - is it less severe than hitting a DJ in a pub? Gerrard was not convicted, but the cameras captured what he did. What does it say about the British justice?
3. Suarez cheating - are you referring to him handling the ball in the world cup? People in Uruguay idolize him for that. I'm sure you'd idolize Gerrard if he did it to get England to the WC semi final.
are you referring to his dives? Gerrard dives, Torres dives. Nobody here ever complained about it.
4. Everybody secretly loved what Cantona did. Why? because he punished a supporter who abused him? Well, why did Suarez get no sympathy after showing the finger to the Fulham fans who were taunting and abusing him?

Double standards? All the way!
[/quote]

Of course double standards are at play, by just about everyone. The only people in the world who think Suarez is innocent are Liverpool fans. What does that tell you? Is that a coincidence? A massive coincidence, or double standards?

Suarez came with a reputation, I didn't think he's manage to expand on it so quickly. I thought what he did for Uruguay with the handball was brilliant - but it WAS cheating. He IS a cheat. And he bites people. Now it seems he's also at best a really stupid twat who uses racist terms but doesn't realise he's being offensive, at worst a lying bastard racist.

I had sympathy when Suarez flicked the vees at Fulham. I loved it when Carra threw a quid at the Arsenal fans. I also thought Cantona was ace when he kung fu'd that idiot - but they were all ended up in the shit to varying degrees.
[/quote]

How do you know that "The only people in the world who think Suarez is innocent are Liverpool fans"? Is this a fact? Was it checked? or is it something you are assuming? I'd be curious to see some backing of this claim.

So you thought what he did for Uruguay was brilliant yet you cannot accept it. Of course it's cheating, but it got punished - he sacrificed himself for the sake of his country's success. Again, would you treat Gerrard differently had he done it for England? Liverpool? BTW - you'd probably find out that the only people in the world who do not think Gerrard dived for the penalty in Istanbul are Liverpool fans. Does it make any difference to you? (hint - I don't give a shit).

"He bites people" - he did it once, why are you using present simple here? Should you not use the past term? Roy Keane tried to end than guy's career. He did it more than once. yet he was not "doomed" in England. Nani accused Carragher for trying to end his career with that tackle yet Carra is our hero.

Double standards are at play by just about everyone, but please note - people normally use them in favour of their own players. This is certainly not the case here. You are all over YOUR player ignoring the fact that other players got away with worse things.
[/quote]

My conclusion on who believes Suarez is based on reading my twitter feed and comments on multi-team message boards. It's not much different from when one side thinks they should have had a pen. It's doing my head in.

I think Evra is lying / exaggerating - but Suarez did pinch him and call him a black and he admitted it. He's a dickhead and he's dragged the club along with him. That's why I'm so pissed off with him - his stupidity. Even if an appeal found that Evra was a lying little shit Suarez still admitted using racial terms and will still face a ban, will still be labelled as a racist by just about everyone else in the game outside Anfield. He shouldn't have done it in the first place but he could have at least denied it when he was questioned.

You can be as pedantic as you want about tense over the biting - the fact that he did it shows he's an impetuous fuckwad who is liable to doing stupid shit in the heat of a moment. It might be 'in the past' but he missed nearly a quarter of last season with bans and he'll miss a quarter of this. He's a liability.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=48021.msg1453615#msg1453615 date=1325434999]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=48021.msg1453602#msg1453602 date=1325433679]
I am stunned at the fans taking Evra's word for it, what the fuck?

Did anyone read that article a couple of points up about the coin toss? He was LYING to gain an advantage!

Evra showed MORE reaction to that than he did to his saying he was called **** 7 times in the goalmouth, he accused the ref of booking him because he was black, he said Suarez called him **** 10 times after the games and reduced it to being called Negro 5 times, yet the FA say his version is more consiostant than Suarez, so he must be telling the truth and Suarez lying!

This is THE SAME FA that accused him of telling UNTRUTHS during the Chelsea groundskeeper inquiry!

Evra is a fucking LIAR pure and simple, and he doesn't mind destroying another persons life doing it, its FUCKING SCANDALOUS!!!
[/quote]

Yeah i read it.... WHO the fuck is brian kettle? WHERE the fuck does it say in the report "concha de tu hermana?" .... what??? where did EVra accuse the ref of punishing him for being black??? WHAT??

... and as for the coin toss bit, GIVE A FUCK.

Its fucking bollox is what it is. Pure Bollox.
[/quote]

Molby, Kettle ( whoever he is) makes no reference to Evra accusing the ref of punishing him for being black.

The coin toss thing is only important as so far as it shows Evra to be a liar.

 

[Rosco]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Former Liverpool player Kettle ?

Whoever he is ?

ha

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

I still don't get the coin toss thing. What happened?

 

[King Binny]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48021.msg1453625#msg1453625 date=1325436165]
Former Liverpool player Kettle ?

Whoever he is ?

ha
[/quote]

:-[

Brian Kettle was a left-back who was captain of Liverpool's reserve team for several years.

However, he was never able to push Alec Lindsay, Joey Jones and Alan Kennedy out of the first team.

He was sold to Wigan, where he only made 14 appearances before going into non-league football.

Nice way to be classified as an ex-player.

 

[King Binny]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=48021.msg1453626#msg1453626 date=1325436265]
I still don't get the coin toss thing. What happened?
[/quote]

329. The first of these was the coin toss. Mr Evra was seen to dispute the outcome of the coin toss with the referee. Mr Marriner explained that he used a FIFA coin which is blue on one side and yellow on the other. He asked Mr Evra, as the visiting captain, to call the colour. Mr Marriner tossed the coin, it came down yellow, and he awarded it to Steven Gerrard who elected to stay in their current ends. Manchester United had kick off. Mr Evra remonstrated that he had called correctly but, Mr Marriner said, he had not. Mr Evra then spoke to Ryan Giggs about it, and Mr Marriner walked over to Mr Evra to assure him that he (Mr Marriner) had got it right. Mr Evra's evidence was that when such a coin was used, he always called yellow given that the alternative, blue, is a Manchester City colour, which he would never call. The toss came down yellow and so Mr Evra knew that he had won it. He particularly wanted to change ends at the start, he explained to the referee that he had called yellow, and why he had done so. Mr Evra was angry but the referee did not change his mind.

 

[Hansern]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=48021.msg1453620#msg1453620 date=1325435780]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48021.msg1453618#msg1453618 date=1325435312]
What about this then:

That para 278 is one which should be pulled apart if we appeal.

Remember why the panel decided there was a 6th use of the word negro?

They said that they could tell from Evra's reaction, after the ref blew the whistle on the abortive corner, that Suarez had said something bad, and they decided this was "negro". ie despite Evra not making that claim, the panel decided that Suarez said "negro" and Evra heard him and reacted.
In that case, Evra heard the word "negro" at least 6 times, not 5. So how does the fact that an LFC employee heard Ferguson tell

the ref that the word n***** been used 5 times act as corroboration for the finding that the word negro was used 6 times? Bizarre.
[/quote]

Do you think that Suarez racially abused Evra yes or no? How many times 5 6 or 7 is hardly the point is it, I don't suppose Evra
literally counted it out. If they caught him on camera saying whats reported then regardless of shenanigans he is out of order and deserves the ban. I dont care if hes deemed a racist or even if he is a racist... i couldnt give a fuck about that to be honest its down to his own conscience.... none of this shit has helped.... none of it.

You cannot drag the shirt through the muck like that you just cant.

I have no doubt about Evra being a cunt but Suarez was seemingly being a dick and he got done for it.

Coin flips and negro counts for fucks sake.... fuck off....it is no defence AT ALL.
[/quote]

No I dont. And your totally missing the point AGAIN. What the above means is that they allow hersay in some matters, but not in others. Its shite. I cant believe you think that report isnt flawed from here to Minsk.

 

[Rosco]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

UK Courts allow hearsay in some instances and not in others. The rule against hearsay has so many exceptions that it's almost difficult to say the rule exists at all.

Thats the only issue we can really have with the judgment but we'll only be able to challenge the length of the ban because of Suarez's admission

 

[Atlas]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48021.msg1453532#msg1453532 date=1325429804]
People are critical to Suarez defence on this matter. I am schocked that he actually needed a defence at all. I just cant believe what I am reading, and how they have made a 115 page bullshit report over this. It is unbelievable. f course Suarez didnt ask for any cross examination of a lot of people that hadnt even heard the incident. And what is the incident? An argument were Evra says "why did you kick me?? Ill kick you back!!" What the fuck is going on in this world? Is he 5 years old?
[/quote]

You are completely ignoring 'the whole Negro calling, head patting pinching bit... But don't let them stop you going nuts

 

[Jack D Rips]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48021.msg1453625#msg1453625 date=1325436165]
Former Liverpool player Kettle ?

Whoever he is ?

ha
[/quote]

Molby actually asked "who the fuck is Brian Kettle". He also accused him with saying something that he didnt say. But hey?

 

[Asbo]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

There are inconsistencies in Evra’s testimony. In his evidence, Evra states that he told the players after the game that Suarez said he kicked him “porque tu eres negro” (“because I am black”). [b][size=10pt]None[/size] of the four [/b] Spanish speaking Manchester United players recalled Evra saying this in their witness testimonies.

In the FA’s report, they confirm this is the case but [size=12pt]state that it is possible the players simply forgot he said it[/size]. ALL FOUR SIMPLY FORGOT FUCK OFF!!![/b]

They do not point to the other possibility: that he did not say it.

[size=14pt]Under this scenario, it could be used as evidence that Evra is an unreliable witness[/size].

 

[Molbystwin]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Ive just gone back to read the meaty bit of the report again, Evra did start it all and it does not state clearly or not whether there is usable video evidence a la Terry....

Without engaging in a complete volte face .... we need to see that footage.

 

[Atlas]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Woland and gene have it right re the club and bit of Suarez.

Insig you are forgetting that evra told fergie he was called a nigger... According to him he thought Negro = nigger.

I'm not saying evra is innocent and did nothing wrong, but Suarez fucked up as did comoli and as mentioned daglish. They wanted to protect an asset who fucked up and was caught out.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

I thought the players wearing Suarez t-shirts was a bit misguided. Suarez wearing one was cringeworthy. The crass levels look like bursting through the stratosphere.

 

[Atlas]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Yup agreed with that also, it was a bit of a silly idea

 

[StevieM]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

It would seem that the only way this would be reversed wold be for us to successfully prove that Evra misled the panel and the panel drew the wrong conclusions.

Not going to happen, unless we've got some sort of secret silver bullet defense, which we decided not to use in the first case because.... I dunno.... maybe it's part of a machavelian plot from Dalglish to make SAF, Evra & The FA look like a pack of c**ts!

But it's not.

It all seems to be based on the fact that Evra is "probably" telling the truth and that Suarez "probably" isn't and that the FA can "probably" get away with doing anything they want.

If we made such a colossal fuck up in the first case... we should "probably" not fuck things up further by making a pigs arse of an appeal.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=48021.msg1453620#msg1453620 date=1325435780]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48021.msg1453618#msg1453618 date=1325435312]
What about this then:

That para 278 is one which should be pulled apart if we appeal.

Remember why the panel decided there was a 6th use of the word negro?

They said that they could tell from Evra's reaction, after the ref blew the whistle on the abortive corner, that Suarez had said something bad, and they decided this was "negro". ie despite Evra not making that claim, the panel decided that Suarez said "negro" and Evra heard him and reacted.
In that case, Evra heard the word "negro" at least 6 times, not 5. So how does the fact that an LFC employee heard Ferguson tell the ref that the word n***** been used 5 times act as corroboration for the finding that the word negro was used 6 times? Bizarre.
[/quote]

Do you think that Suarez racially abused Evra yes or no? How many times 5 6 or 7 is hardly the point is it, I don't suppose Evra literally counted it out. If they caught him on camera saying whats reported then regardless of shenanigans he is out of order and deserves the ban. I dont care if hes deemed a racist or even if he is a racist... i couldnt give a fuck about that to be honest its down to his own conscience.... none of this shit has helped.... none of it.

You cannot drag the shirt through the muck like that you just cant.

I have no doubt about Evra being a cunt but Suarez was seemingly being a dick and he got done for it.

Coin flips and negro counts for fucks sake.... fuck off....it is no defence AT ALL.
[/quote]

Nobody's saying it's a "defence". What it *is* is an indication of the fact that Evra can't be trusted.

That's also the significance of what was said about the number of times the "n" word was supposedly used. Of course it doesn't matter whether it was 5, 6 or 7. What matters is the fact that Ferguson, and then Evra taking his cue from the old cnut, insisted it was 5. If Evra didn't count it out (and I agree with you that that doesn't seem plausible) it's yet another indication that he and his manager have lied.

 

[Hansern]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Liverpool FC: How the Luis Suarez Racism Report Fails to Resolve the Matter | Bleacher Report

Liverpool FC: How the Luis Suarez Racism Report Fails to Resolve the Matter
By Antony Herbert (Analyst) on January 1, 2012 328 reads 1

Now that the details of Luis Suarez's racism charge have come to light, the sporting world can finally dissect the outcome.

And the fallout of the lengthy 115-page document does not read for pretty reading. Various references to the comments made by the Uruguayan international to Manchester United's Patrice Evra point to the inability for them to be construed as friendly banter.

Yet what seems most shocking from the report is the constant doubt that still surrounds the whole event.

It is even as if the F.A are not able to make up their own minds about the argument between the two players, despite being perfectly happy to make an example of Suarez in punishing the Liverpool forward with an eight-match ban and £40,000 fine.

As the BBC reports, the commissioner for the report concluded that "this case is not about whether Suarez is in fact a racist," whilst adding that "there are some indications that he is not."

So hang on, does this mean that a player has been accused of something derogatory, when at the same time there is a general opinion given that he is not capable of such behaviour?

We also have the use of many half-hearted attempts at validation for the punishment. Firstly, it is noted that neither player was "unable to remember every detail" of the incident, further adding that Evra's evidence was only "for the most part consistent."

If Suarez was not consistent with his story, then this is fair enough, but only providing that the other party can be.
To sum it perfectly, a comment is made that Suarez has been "found guilty on the balance of probability," something which is a step down from being charged "beyond all reasonable doubt."
Now I would never claim to be a lawyer or someone who has an in-depth knowledge of how legal proceedings work, but we are all aware of the term "innocent until proven guilty."
Therefore, unless there is an overwhelming and confident backing for a guilty verdict, there should have been no charge at all. Surely, the accusations should have been thrown out, considering in usual legal cases this would be the outcome.

It seems surprising that Evra's character has remained intact when it has emerged that the incident began after the United player made insulting remarks about Luis Suarez's sister.

In the end, with all of the maybes included, the punishment handed to Suarez now only appears as an example-setting punishment that does not care entirely for the factual elements.

You would expect that the appeal being lodged by Liverpool will focus on the uncertainty surrounding the incident. You can't help but think that until there is a definitive and confirming verdict made, we still cannot assess if Suarez is the disgrace to English football that many have labelled him to be.

 

[Hansern]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Gotta love this aswell:

280. Mr Evra said that the phrase "ten times" was just a figure of speech in France. We
understood Mr Comolli to say broadly the same thing, though he thought that Mr Evra
should have been more precise when giving evidence on such a serious matter on
television.

Is this broadly the same thing:

160. When Mr Comolli gave evidence, Mr McCormick asked him whether that evidence from
Mr Evra about the phrase ten times accorded with Mr Comolli's knowledge as a
Frenchman of the French language and French behaviour. His answer was: not in these
circumstances. He said that if his daughter asked him for a toy for Christmas and she says
it five, six, seven times, he might say "You already told me ten times". But, in those
circumstances (referring to Mr Evra giving an interview after the game), nobody in the
French language will say that (ie ten times) because it's too important. You have to be
precise in what you say.

Fucking hell..