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The Race for Fourth

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gkmacca said:
I had feared we'd be bumped off the qualifiers, but apparently not:


How many Champions League qualifiers can the Premier League have?

The Premier League’s maximum number of Champions League teams in a single season is five.

If the winner of either the Champions League or Europa League finishes outside of the qualification places in their domestic table they become an additional qualifier.


Could a top four side miss out on the Champions League this season?

The farcical situation in 2012 that saw Tottenham miss out on a place due to Chelsea (who were outside the top four) taking their spot as the holders has been mercifully corrected.

The only way that the fourth-placed Premier League side could miss out now is if both the Champions League and Europa League winners came from the Premier League and both finished outside the top four. In that scenario only the top three league placings would qualify for the Champions League, with fourth spot dropping into the Europa.

With no English team remaining in the Champions League it is guaranteed that all of the top four sides in the Premier League will qualify this season.



Where will United enter the Champions League if they win the Europa?

The winners of the Europa League enter the Champions League at the final qualification stage.

Previous winners Sevilla have benefitted from automatic qualification to the group stages, but only because the Champions League winners came from their own domestic league (Barcelona and Real Madrid) ensuring that one additional group stage qualification was awarded to La Liga.

Such a scenario will not occur this season. If Manchester United want to qualify automatically for the Champions League group stages they will need to finish in the top three of the Premier League.



What happens if United win the Europa League AND finish top four?

In short… nothing. They will still qualify for the Champions League, but only to the qualification stage.

Such an outcome would, however, see the Premier League lose that potential fifth Champions League spot.



What impact would United winning have on the Europa League qualification places?

Every domestic league has a cap for a maximum number of European places. So if Manchester United win the Europa League and finish outside the top four (making it five Champions League qualifiers from England) then the Premier League will drop from three Europa League spots to two.

Potentially this could see the seventh-placed Premier League team shift up a qualification level to enter the Europa League at the third qualification stage.

With the FA Cup winners already guaranteed to be one of the Premier League’s top seven and eighth-placed West Brom out of contention, the seven English representatives will be Chelsea, Tottenham Hotspur, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Arsenal and Everton… but possibly not in that order.
Click to expand...



In whoosh terms....

This is the mothership...
 
Halmeister said:
It's not so much aimed at you actually, I just don't want to be labelled negative.

We've done better than expected this year on the face of it, and I would've been made up with top 4 at the start of the season. Yet we appear to be going backwards with no sign of overcoming our obvious issue with trying to beat the lesser teams. It's worrying. I call it how I see it.
Click to expand...

How can we be going backwards when we are looking at finishing 4 places higher then last year and are already 10 points better off with 2 games to go?
I agree about needing to address the issue of dropping points against lesser teams obviously.
 
Frogfish said:
Waaay too late for that mate 😉


It's the end of the season for by far the smallest squad at the top end of the table, clearly tiredness is an issue for most clubs at this stage and to compound matters most of our top players have either been injured and were out for long spells or remain injured. if we get 4th, as is likely from the position we are in now, it will be a superb achievement considering the competition. Then it's all on the Summer.
Click to expand...

This is wrong on so many different levels.

This season was our great chance - like the last time we were able to have a crack at it with other teams not involved in Europe.

You think not being involved in Europe didn't help Chelsea?

It helped us - like it helped Leicester to WIN the title last year.

We won't win the league next year.

Arsenal - best chance they'll ever have if they avoid Europe - probably doesn't matter if they have a new manager or not..

I reckon you'd get great odds for Arsenal next year...
 
Chelsea have had the golden ticket of no Europe and no injuries this season. That's patently not been the case for us.
 
I widely tipped Chelsea to win the PL pre-season for a reason. No Europe, Conte as manager, and yet they still had a deep PL winning core with the addition of great signings (esp. Kante) to fix their main issue from last season. There was no comparison to our situation.
 
gkmacca said:
I had feared we'd be bumped off the qualifiers, but apparently not:


How many Champions League qualifiers can the Premier League have?

The Premier League’s maximum number of Champions League teams in a single season is five.

If the winner of either the Champions League or Europa League finishes outside of the qualification places in their domestic table they become an additional qualifier.


Could a top four side miss out on the Champions League this season?

The farcical situation in 2012 that saw Tottenham miss out on a place due to Chelsea (who were outside the top four) taking their spot as the holders has been mercifully corrected.

The only way that the fourth-placed Premier League side could miss out now is if both the Champions League and Europa League winners came from the Premier League and both finished outside the top four. In that scenario only the top three league placings would qualify for the Champions League, with fourth spot dropping into the Europa.

With no English team remaining in the Champions League it is guaranteed that all of the top four sides in the Premier League will qualify this season.



Where will United enter the Champions League if they win the Europa?

The winners of the Europa League enter the Champions League at the final qualification stage.

Previous winners Sevilla have benefitted from automatic qualification to the group stages, but only because the Champions League winners came from their own domestic league (Barcelona and Real Madrid) ensuring that one additional group stage qualification was awarded to La Liga.

Such a scenario will not occur this season. If Manchester United want to qualify automatically for the Champions League group stages they will need to finish in the top three of the Premier League.



What happens if United win the Europa League AND finish top four?

In short… nothing. They will still qualify for the Champions League, but only to the qualification stage.

Such an outcome would, however, see the Premier League lose that potential fifth Champions League spot.



What impact would United winning have on the Europa League qualification places?

Every domestic league has a cap for a maximum number of European places. So if Manchester United win the Europa League and finish outside the top four (making it five Champions League qualifiers from England) then the Premier League will drop from three Europa League spots to two.

Potentially this could see the seventh-placed Premier League team shift up a qualification level to enter the Europa League at the third qualification stage.

With the FA Cup winners already guaranteed to be one of the Premier League’s top seven and eighth-placed West Brom out of contention, the seven English representatives will be Chelsea, Tottenham Hotspur, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Arsenal and Everton… but possibly not in that order.
Click to expand...

I'm still confused, are you saying if Utd win the Europa League and finish 5th, we'd get the CL spot if we finish 4th or no?
 
Hansern said:
How can we be going backwards when we are looking at finishing 4 places higher then last year and are already 10 points better off with 2 games to go?
I agree about needing to address the issue of dropping points against lesser teams obviously.
Click to expand...
I mean going backwards from where we were and how we were playing before Christmas.
 
We've had one competition to play in since January. Fatqiue is 100% not an issue for us. Lack of a cutting edge is.
 
localny said:
We've had one competition to play in since January. Fatqiue is 100% not an issue for us. Lack of a cutting edge is.
Click to expand...
^ This! Watched us against Soton and found myself thinking the same. Injuries aside, still too many average players on the side and Milner can't be featuring in all games either. He's missed all of 2-3 matches all season?
 
Yeh, we can't rely on Arsenal fucking up, this shit is their bread and butter, we need to sort our act out and win our next two games, simple.
 
Arsenal are meant to be shite and yet they've found ways to break Southampton down

We're not getting champions league are we?
 
When did we last win two league games on the bounce , before christmas i assume ?sure feels like it
 
Im not even entertaining getting emotional about it.
If these fuckers fuck this up then fuck them they dont deserve Europe.

No way am I getting fucking caught up in it.
Its on a fucking plate. Has been for weeks. United and Arsenal have BEGGED us to take 4th
 
It's our history of shooting ourselves in the foot that makes me seethe seeing training photos of the team all smiling and laughing. The team dragged themselves into this mess, least they can do is show some anger and focus for the last 2 matches. Klopp included.
 
We have to win two games

Arsenal have to win three (or 5 on the bounce counting United and tonight)

If we fuck it up there is no one else to blame.
 
Arsenal have Stoke away then 2 home games you'd expect them to win. We need to win our last 2 games to be sure. Bit of pressure but we should have had this boxed off by now, if we don't do it, it'll be criminal.
 
What I see is if we deservingly or undeservingly lose CL place, Coutinho likely leaves, we spend the summer overpunching our weight but ending with overpaid dross again convincing ourselves it's a rebuilding phase. And then there's the Europa League to look forward to. Sharing positive vibes.
 
Arsenal usually struggle away to Stoke. One win since 2010 or something. 2 days rest after tonights game. Think they might drop some points there.
 
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