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The players perspective

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Modo

A contentious scando
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So do you think you know enough to speculate on which players who will benefit from Klopp taking over?

Here's a very short summary of his game. My own views and opinions of course.

Formation:
Klopp usually plays with a 4-2-3-1 line up.

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Philosophy/tactics:
High intensity pressing game which is called "gegenpress", it basically means counter pressing in German.
So, when the team loses the ball, the idea is to retain the ball instantly by a form of organized pressure.

Klopp also likes to utilize his wing backs by playing a narrow game in midfield. Focusing their attack on one flank to leave space for one of the wing backs on the opposite flank.
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On offence he prefers technical ability and a fast paced passing game.
"I want to fight with perfect defence, switching to offence, very fast, switching back to defence very fast", he said after a 2-1 win against Arsenal.

So, he's going to demand a lot from the players. Do we have the squad and the physique to cope with this?
We should.

Our players in Klopp's lineup


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(Add Allen to Hendo and Milner's postion)

So who will benefit from the change of management?

Well, obviously our outcasts like Enrique, Markovic, Teixeira and Illori. But that's not what the thread is about.
The worrying part is that I see a few of our "guaranteed" starters including our captain fighting for the same positions.

I see Moreno and Clyne thriving in this type of line up. Both of them like to "bomb" forward and help out in attack. They are both very quick, one needs to work on his positioning.

I'd prefer to see Sturridge playing in the central role but where is Benteke, our 30 something million player supposed to play then?
I'm not sure Benteke is the right player for Klopp. I really don't know how he'll fit in Klopp's style of football.

Should Coutinho be on the left or in the middle? Is Milner a central midfielder? We know that Hendo is.
It's difficult to predict how he'll manage to cram all of our "top players" into the same line up. Big decisions will have to be made.

The only players suited for his type of football are imo, Clyne, Moreno, Skrtel, Lucas, Milner, Allen, Henderson, Coutinho, Sturridge and to a certain degree Lallana.

Why did I leave Firmino out?
His defending and pressing. It's just abysmal, just lazy allround. Hopefully Klopp can do something about it.
I don't rate Sakho, especially his passing and technical ability. If we're playing a fast paced passing game his flaws will quickly be exposed.

Missing puzzle pieces:
We need a new less injured Agger or Hummels.
A better keeper.
A better quicker DM or Can stepping up. I love Lucas but, we can do better. Not the biggest priority though.
A Reus type player. Basically a left or right forward.
A winger, or left/right midfielder. Too many question marks surrounding both Markovic and Ibe. Maybe we can play Milner there.

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Some interesting points there, but:

1. When we signed Firmino someone posted some stats on here showing that he had one of the highest tackle ratios in the Bundesliga. He may not have been doing it for us yet, but playing him in his true position instead of sticking him out on the wing would have helped; and

2. The idea that DM is "not the biggest priority" is extraordinary. I'll lay odds that that's one of the first positions Klopp will strengthen in January.
 
Good post, but isn't Firmino perfectly suited for this system? Sure he looked unfit before his injury, but wasn't this his bread and butter back in Bundasliga?
 
Also, I reckon we'll probably see Lucas dropped in favour of a Milner, Henderson midfield. They should both be very capable of this pressing game, and I've seen many suggest Klopp doesn't really employ a dedicated DM anyway.
 
Also, I reckon we'll probably see Lucas dropped in favour of a Milner, Henderson midfield. They should both be very capable of this pressing game, and I've seen many suggest Klopp doesn't really employ a dedicated DM anyway.

I've also seen the mirror opposite suggestion. Selection between now and January will be a question of "needs must" and may not give much of a clue to what deals we'll be doing in the next window.
 
Some interesting points there, but:

1. When we signed Firmino someone posted some stats on here showing that he had one of the highest tackle ratios in the Bundesliga. He may not have been doing it for us yet, but playing him in his true position instead of sticking him out on the wing would have helped; and

2. The idea that DM is "not the biggest priority" is extraordinary. I'll lay odds that that's one of the first positions Klopp will strengthen in January.

Good post, but isn't Firmino perfectly suited for this system? Sure he looked unfit before his injury, but wasn't this his bread and butter back in Bundasliga?


Maybe I'm being too harsh on Firmino, but I'm just not that impressed by his pressing game. Yes it could be linked to him being played in the wrong position. Time will tell.
I've definitely not made my mind up about him yet.

Also, maybe I should have been clearer about Lucas and Can. I did mention that we need someone better. But we have a dedicated DM, while we're are missing players in other positions. Basically, I'm more content with having a decent DM, than lacking the right player in the right position. But it's all about perception. I'm OK with Lucas, for now.

Gundogan is a hardworking DM/CM imo, but he's quicker and has more to his game than Lucas. Actually Can is closer to Gundogan than Lucas.
That's the only thing that bothers me with Lucas, he's too one dimensional. We could do with a bit more from a player in that position.
 
Can will have to change pretty quickly if we play a high pressing game as he's too lazy and unfit to do it at the moment.
 
And he's not a DM anyway. Another bet I'd be prepared to offer is that, if Can stays after Klopp arrives, Klopp won't play him there.
 
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I see Moreno and Clyne thriving in this type of line up. Both of them like to "bomb" forward and help out in attack. They are both very quick, one needs to work on his positioning.

Some good points. But full backs just bombing into attack leaves a suspicous defence very voulnerable. Allthough everyone would love to see that happening we must also realize that we are very poor at winning the ball back. None of Our players are particulary good at that. I am aware that Klopp wants the team to press aggresive, but it will not happened over night. I am pretty sure he will spend the first period stabilizing us at the back, hence defenders capable of defending will be the ones thriving.
 
I read today that Klopp was a great admirer of Benteke and Firmino and had tried to sign them for Dortmund. Makes you wonder if we ran their signing past Klopp in case we made a bad start to the season, especially as we initially didn't want to pay £32m for Benteke
 
I wrote a similar analysis a couple of days ago, not sure if you have seen it @Modo. Where we disagree:

1. Lucas. I think Klopp likes his CM/DM's to cover a lot of ground, the 2 players he usually trusted in this position were Sven Bender (who is a bit like Hendo in covering every blade of grass, but perhaps a slightly better tackler) and Sebastian Kehl, who has a thing or two in common with Milner. Lucas is not mobile and versatile enough to play in Klopp's system, at least his early-Dortmund one.
2. Sakho – not sure why you find him unsuitable, but time will tell. However I can see Klopp trying to buy a Hummels-like defender (or even Hummels himself) fairly soon, it's true that we don't have such a player (unless Ilori shows dramatic improvement).
3. Some other points: Can so far has not shown the ability to be a part of a pressing game. Like I said, I am very curious to see how Klopp will coach him. Sturridge will probably not play on the wing because in Klopp's system that position demands a lot of defensive responsibility, if any striker gets shifted to the wing it will surely be Ings. I think Firmino will be just fine in Klopp's team.

For me the biggest questions Klopp will need to resolve are:
1. Defense. With the exception of Clyne, every member of our back 4 (or even back 7 if you include GK and two CMs) seems slightly less defensively solid than their Dortmund counterparts. Would his system still work in these conditions or would he need to adjust and make some kind of compromise?
2. The Can enigma. Klopp had great success in coaching 2 talented Turkish lads into top-class midfielders, can he do it with the 3rd one?
3. Attacking trio roles. We seem to have plenty of the kind of attacking players Klopp likes – hard-working ones, but how will he divide the roles between them? Would Henderson or Milner play there or in CM? Is Coutinho more of a "new Kagawa" (in the middle) or a "new Reus" (LW)? Can Lallana be coached to look for a pass more often and not to hog the ball? Can Ibe be taught to look for teammates more?
4. Benteke. Dortmund tried to buy him in the summer of 2013 and 2014, instead they went for an immobile Italian striker with disastrous results (somehow that sounds familiar). However from my perspective Benteke doesn't seem ideally suited to Klopp's game and I'm pretty sure Sturridge would be the first-choice CF when fit. Also what about Origi, who Klopp also apparently tried to buy? Well, these are nice problems to have.
 
I read today that Klopp was a great admirer of Benteke and Firmino and had tried to sign them for Dortmund. Makes you wonder if we ran their signing past Klopp in case we made a bad start to the season, especially as we initially didn't want to pay £32m for Benteke

If they did such a cunning thing they would shoot way up in my estimation.
 
Agree on Firmino, maybe his german league stats says different but he looks lazy. Although maybe he's more inclined to press facing the opposition goal when the ball is in their half, where forcing errors creates chances. He looks disinterested when the play is behind him and he needs to come towards his own goal to help.
 
Firmino looks like bit of a headless chicken. Probably didn't help Rodgers no wanting him so hopefully Klopp can get a bit more from him.

Whilst I don't know too much about how Klopp plays, based on the above I'd imagine he'll fancy Danny Ings in the team somewhere.
 
Firmino looks like bit of a headless chicken. Probably didn't help Rodgers no wanting him so hopefully Klopp can get a bit more from him.

Whilst I don't know too much about how Klopp plays, based on the above I'd imagine he'll fancy Danny Ings in the team somewhere.


Yeah I totally forgot about Ings. But I only focused on our strongest 13-14 players.
 
It thought his name was Firminho, until I realised that his name was spelled Firmino.
I keep calling him Firminho though. The little Firm one.
 
Some good points. But full backs just bombing into attack leaves a suspicous defence very voulnerable. Allthough everyone would love to see that happening we must also realize that we are very poor at winning the ball back. None of Our players are particulary good at that. I am aware that Klopp wants the team to press aggresive, but it will not happened over night. I am pretty sure he will spend the first period stabilizing us at the back, hence defenders capable of defending will be the ones thriving.


I agree a lot of work needs to be done with our defenders. They're all over the place atm.
 
As I said in the other thread, alot of the ideas are similar practices to what we saw in 2013/2014 - pressing, counterattacking, no real DM, etc.

So it's a logical step to go with Klopp, if he can extend that and fine tune it (ie, make us defend and give us a backbone). I'd personally like to see Gomez get a chance at centre half in a back four. He'll make mistakes but he's a kid with so much more potential to be better than any of our other centre halves. And they all make mistakes anyway. I'm not convinced by Sakho or Lovren at all. Make a pairing and one that can flourish in the longterm.
 
People seem to be forgetting that Klopp was trying to slightly change the way Dortmund played in their last season, so he may have something quite different in mind for us if/when he takes over. Assuming we'll play this 'gegenpress' is like assuming he's going to raid Dortmund for players; it may happy but we shouldn't take it for granted.

Certainly without a pre-season to implement his ideas he's not going to have the fitness levels to put in place a high-pressing system immediately, and probably not until next season. The German League also has a winter break, which is therefore more forgiving fitness-wise.
 
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