To be fair to zanetti, he did play midfield as well, and that was well in to his career
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To be fair to zanetti, he did play midfield as well, and that was well in to his career
As impressive as Trent is as a talent, Stevie G was supernatural. He could play most positions on the pitch and be in the top 3 or 5 in the PL - midfield, number 10, striker 🙂, right winger, right back, etc. I can't prove it obviously but I am confident if he dons the gloves for half a season, he will put in some all-time great performances as a goalkeeper. His ability to instinctively understand the needs of the position and adapt was unparalleled. Of course, his physical and technical ability helped but I am yet to see great technical players as adaptable as him. So we should be careful with the if Gerrard can do it, why not X?
That said, I am not saying it is not worth trying out TAA at midfield. My concern is that there is a difference between a player who starts at RB and drifts to midfield and a midfield player. In attack, TAA has space in front of him, he can attempt deep lying crosses. His view of the game is along the sidelines and across, more of a 90-degree left quadrant view. Because of the space in front of him, he is able to build up speed with the ball, build momentum and then take on players.
All of that space will not be available if he plays in midfield. It is a more congested area. He becomes easier to press. It might not be viable for him to build up speed and power past players. To make crosses, he will have to drift to the right-hand side. He will need to have a 180-270 degree field of view while playing.
Folks are concerned about TAA's ability to track running or drifting behind him as an RB. Won't that issue of inability to track runners be magnified if he plays in midfield, particularly a Klopp midfied which demands a lot from a defensive point of view?
That said, I am not saying it is not worth trying out TAA at midfield. My concern is that there is a difference between a player who starts at RB and drifts to midfield and a midfield player. In attack, TAA has space in front of him, he can attempt deep lying crosses. His view of the game is along the sidelines and across, more of a 90-degree left quadrant view. Because of the space in front of him, he is able to build up speed with the ball, build momentum and then take on players.
All of that space will not be available if he plays in midfield. It is a more congested area. He becomes easier to press. It might not be viable for him to build up speed and power past players. To make crosses, he will have to drift to the right-hand side. He will need to have a 180-270 degree field of view while playing.
Folks are concerned about TAA's ability to track running or drifting behind him as an RB. Won't that issue of inability to track runners be magnified if he plays in midfield, particularly a Klopp midfied which demands a lot from a defensive point of view?
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I was laughing at you responding to the accusation that you made a circular argument with another circular argument.
It was then I knew for sure that you're just too dim to engage with.
Great comeback. You actually are that stupid.
Zanetti was a unique player though. He could star as a full back on both sides, defensive midfielder and as a winger. Not many players like that.
But you don't know if a player is capable unless you try them there. There's no reason why trent couldn't work in midfield. he practically plays there anyway
No - I think when Klopp starts uttering sentences like "....solutions within.." - you know it means there will be no transfers. So unless someone or some of you want to wish ill on our remaining fit players after the Crystal Palace game, he is not going to budge. And can just say I would not want any player to be injured after that game because even if we were to be forced then to sign someone - it would be pointless with another senior player out for weeks. I am not mad enough to think someone can come in and be a midfield hero for this team.
I sometimes truly wonder what people want and expect from Liverpool FC.
Over the last 5 years in the league, only one team has either scored more or conceded less than us - Man City.
We’re a lot closer to city on those metrics than the teams that rank 3rd are to us.
We conceded only 18 goals fewer than City, in total over the last 5 seasons - half of which came in the season we played with no decent fit defenders for half the season.
We’ve conceded the least amount of goals 3 out of the past 5 seasons, and yet, here we go again with the “Trent’s a liability at RB”.
It’s just nuts - if anything, we don’t score enough - that’s our problem and even that’s largely bollocks.
What possible outcome would you be expecting to achieve by moving Trent from RB - a more defensive RB might save us 3-4 goals a season - but their output is likely to be significantly less.
There’s also no guarantee that Trent would replicate his FB stats in a Klopp midfield, given he’ll have different responsibilities - in fact moving the guy that “loses concentration” a lot into a role where being absolutely clued in to “the press” is essential to how we play doesn’t sound like a great idea.
Didn’t we go through this with Coutinho - how he was great at scoring and conceding from midfield, but also made us weaker.
It’s just so unnecessary - it’s not as if a top quality FB is cheap - just look what £££’s City, Chelsea, etc are dropping on FBs trying to achieve the sort of output we have with Trent.
I can see the attraction as a theory - but it just doesn’t work in reality, if you look at it against what it’s supposed to achieve.
Over the last 5 years in the league, only one team has either scored more or conceded less than us - Man City.
We’re a lot closer to city on those metrics than the teams that rank 3rd are to us.
We conceded only 18 goals fewer than City, in total over the last 5 seasons - half of which came in the season we played with no decent fit defenders for half the season.
We’ve conceded the least amount of goals 3 out of the past 5 seasons, and yet, here we go again with the “Trent’s a liability at RB”.
It’s just nuts - if anything, we don’t score enough - that’s our problem and even that’s largely bollocks.
What possible outcome would you be expecting to achieve by moving Trent from RB - a more defensive RB might save us 3-4 goals a season - but their output is likely to be significantly less.
There’s also no guarantee that Trent would replicate his FB stats in a Klopp midfield, given he’ll have different responsibilities - in fact moving the guy that “loses concentration” a lot into a role where being absolutely clued in to “the press” is essential to how we play doesn’t sound like a great idea.
Didn’t we go through this with Coutinho - how he was great at scoring and conceding from midfield, but also made us weaker.
It’s just so unnecessary - it’s not as if a top quality FB is cheap - just look what £££’s City, Chelsea, etc are dropping on FBs trying to achieve the sort of output we have with Trent.
I can see the attraction as a theory - but it just doesn’t work in reality, if you look at it against what it’s supposed to achieve.
Are there any signs of our CBs slowing down? If so I haven't seen it and in fact maybe we became even faster last season with Konate playing so many games.
The reason, IMO, that so many balls are played over the top down the wings is that the vast majority of balls through the centre going to end up with only one result and so the wings become the most effective outlet, especially when our FBs are often to be found much higher up the pitch and the covering midfielder is usually there to prevent breakways on his wing not to outpace the winger.
Totally torn on Trent in midfield. The upside is likely more goal output from him personally but at the cost of a drop off in assists? Also he is far from the world's best tackler / presser so that doesn't strengthen his case.
If it is Bellingham we'd better have a provisional agreement in place because if he has another stand out season I can see strong competition (well actually not competition because we'd lose out) from City (KdB will be 32 next Summer and is becoming more and more injury prone) and even United if they have a better season this year could throw a huge salary / transfer fee at him. Chelsea could also be in the mix with by then an aging Kante (32) & Jorginho (31).
There are two points here that are strongly debateable (and to clarify, I'm not for or against Trent in midfield - I'd just like us to keep our options open and be flexible, see how the team would perform with him there - though my main concern would be Trent's lack of tackling and pressing prowess, which is more of a deterrent (to me) than the rejigging of the defence.
a) We don't know what Klopp & Co. are considering. We absolutely can not go by sound bites given to the press or by assumptions.
b) Gomez absolutely can play at RB - it just changes the balance of the team. Now that could be a good or a bad thing. We would have, on balance, less bodies forward as Gomez would naturally drop deeper, though not always of course. And in short fast passing interchanges I don't think Gomez is any worse than Trent.
Whilst on the upside we are now far stronger in defence and most likely most teams would switch the balance of their attack to Robbo, which is overall beneficial for us.
I'm very happy to see you have switched to using Naby instead of Keita, which you perpetually misspell. However it seems Gomez has replaced Naby in your misspelling affections. Diaz & Nunez will be ecstatic you got their names right though !
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Whilst the logic is there in practice we don't see Trent pinging balls from deep in the RB position that often, it happens, but it's a case of how much do we lose vs how much do we gain. The majority of his assists come from midfield (the middle ⅓ of the pitch or maybe a little further forward) and there's nothing stopping him pinging it R to L either because Thiago does it all the time.
The upside is that Trent's supply would likely not diminish, maybe even increase, and we'd see more goals from him whilst being defensively sounder. However he is not as accomplished a tackler/presser/ball-winner as Thiago/Keita/Elliott or even Hendo. Swings and Roundabouts. I do think it could and should be employed as a tactical switch to upset some teams, though I'm not convinced it should be made permanent.
a) Lijnders referred to him this season as our Cafu. Klopp has said that we have been looking at midfielders but none have been available or the talks havent resulted in anything. If Trent was part of that conversation or an alternative why hasnt he been tried there in pre season?
b) Yeah, he can play there but he isnt a very good right back. He doesnt fit the attacking profile and we'd miss just about everything that Trent contributes with to the team. Gomez is naturally a better defender but the unbalance and key elements missing attacking wise would mean we'd be a much worse team. So many of our attacks start from our full backs and Trent is in a league of his own switching play to the other flank or setting up chances. Gomez wont do that. Why would we set up in a way that would decrease our ability in such a manner, that doesnt make sense.
I'm not saying Trent cant play in midfield. He's talented enough to do so, but the reason it wont happen is because he's an integral part of the team as a right back. Breaking records and being World class.
Its like pissing your pants to keep warm. Solve one problem with creating another one. And it doesnt even make sense to do it in the first place.
Well this all comes down to opinions. Points for and against have all been made. Until we see him play there there is not going to be a definitive conclusion.
Of course he could play there.
It just doesnt make sense given the massive changes that we’d have to do, and that we would most likely be worse for doing it. Unless we’re signing Reece James or Cancelo.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...ayer-did-not-work-for-england-against-andorra
Adam Bate
Trent Alexander-Arnold started in midfield during England’s 4-0 win over Andorra but the experiment did not last long. There is a belief that his future lies in the middle but is that based on flawed logic? We take a look at the argument – and the stats…
If there is a time to experiment it is at home to Andorra when clear at the top of a World Cup qualifying group. But Gareth Southgate’s decision to play Trent Alexander-Arnold in midfield lasted only 45 minutes before he was returned to his right-back role.
There was a loose touch where he lost possession and a run into the box where he failed to keep the ball in play, but it was not that Alexander-Arnold played poorly. The issue was the supposed benefits of moving him into midfield just were not apparent.
Southgate had spoken beforehand of his hope that Alexander-Arnold would be "a little bit more comfortable in those areas than he was last year" having been drifting inside regularly for Liverpool in the early parts of this season. But it did not go quite as planned.
Adam Bate
Trent Alexander-Arnold started in midfield during England’s 4-0 win over Andorra but the experiment did not last long. There is a belief that his future lies in the middle but is that based on flawed logic? We take a look at the argument – and the stats…
If there is a time to experiment it is at home to Andorra when clear at the top of a World Cup qualifying group. But Gareth Southgate’s decision to play Trent Alexander-Arnold in midfield lasted only 45 minutes before he was returned to his right-back role.
There was a loose touch where he lost possession and a run into the box where he failed to keep the ball in play, but it was not that Alexander-Arnold played poorly. The issue was the supposed benefits of moving him into midfield just were not apparent.
Southgate had spoken beforehand of his hope that Alexander-Arnold would be "a little bit more comfortable in those areas than he was last year" having been drifting inside regularly for Liverpool in the early parts of this season. But it did not go quite as planned.
I wouldnt wait in excitement for that to happen under Klopp.
So there is not going to be a definitive conclusion then. End. Stop.
Careful now, Peter Vague will come after you claiming circular arguments.
“Peter Vague”… hahahahaha.
Let me ask something about this Trent thing in MF. So Millie has just about played everywhere, Hendo has played multiple positions and so has Fabs. Good players are able to play multiple positions. Now moving Trent to MF where he can play CM/RM, wouldn't that free him up of some his defensive responsibilities and allow him to be more creative?
And what would be wrong with this formation if we have Naby, Thiago and Ox are all injured?
TAA-----Matip--------VVD---- Robbo
-------------------Fab--------------------------------
--------Hendo-------------Firmino-------------------
Salah---------------------------------------Diaz
-----------------------Nunez--------------------------
Can't believe that no one here is willing to consider this. We all know that he can see, and pick out a pass, and is our best player when it comes to the press, and is a very intelligent player. This would give us another option, and would afford us the time (Next season) to chase some one else to replay the Ox, and maybe Naby if needed
Firmino has no legs left. He loses the ball more than does anything with it. And is generally past his sell by date.
Yeah he should have been sold.
Yeah i hoped he would be able to transition to a deeper position, but last week showed he's done in the league
Not sure you can play with 4 strikers, and as others have said Bobby's legs have gone
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