The Donkey

[StevieM]

Gakpo is a good player, silky, elegance, very smart and all that....but are we really thinking he's the man to get the goals/assists?

He goes missing for too large a spells to ever be that type of player, do people really want to go back to when Nunez was being benched or played out of position for this guy? With Nunez at least you can be sure he's going to make 3-4 chances a game for himself or others, with Gakpo.......

Gakpo’s scoring rate is better than Nunez by minutes played and he’s play a fair whack of games in midfield - so, if you’re looking at the stats and the actual results - then yes he might very well deliver more than Nunez.

It doesn’t matter if Nunez makes chances that he misses - and Gakpo’s probably better at creating space and chances for others than Nunez.

It might even be the spur Nunez needs - a bit of healthy competition and pressure.

 

[binomial]

Gakpo’s scoring rate is better than Nunez by minutes played and he’s play a fair whack of games in midfield - so, if you’re looking at the stats and the actual results - then yes he might very well deliver more than Nunez.

It doesn’t matter if Nunez makes chances that he misses - and Gakpo’s probably better at creating space and chances for others than Nunez.

It might even be the spur Nunez needs - a bit of healthy competition and pressure.

Scoring rate means naff all to me though, Gakpo (like Mo) has scored a bunch of tap ins....mainly due to Darwin's exceptional work.

The games in midfield I'll let slide as he never should've played there but which player of the 2 is likely to help the team win?

Go back and have a look at the Wolves and Newcastle games where Gakpo did play as the #9 and see how threatening we looked first half.

Is it just coincidence the 2 games Nunez plays almost no part in, we lose both?

 

[keniget]

I’m not sure what you’d like me to say - I think he showed an urgency to drive at Fulham that was missing - he’s regularly scoring when he starts, he’s been our most flexible forward slotting in multiple positions including midfield - he looks like he’s hungry to succeed and has a point to prove.

There nothing more that can be said until he gets a run of games starting.

Was it you that wanted to talk about goals per minutes rather than per games - if it was - Gakpo’s rate is better than Nunez across all games (although not in the League).

I reckon Gakpo gets a start against Shef Utd - then it’s up to him - good performance and there’s a question about whether he gets a run ahead of Nunez for a while.

I don't want you to say anything, I just found your description of him funny given that it was a response to mine.

And no, wasn't me that mentioned goals per mins - likely binomial or someone else. The last thing I want to do is talk about stats.

I mostly meant re: Gakpo that he's more of a system player that is better when the team is functioning around him and less the sort of player that will dig you out of a rut on his own.

I don't think the options we have right now are good / reliable enough unless we a massive upturn of form and quality in Diaz / Nunez / Gakpo.

 

[StevieM]

Scoring rate means naff all to me though, Gakpo (like Mo) has scored a bunch of tap ins....mainly due to Darwin's exceptional work.

The games in midfield I'll let slide as he never should've played there but which player of the 2 is likely to help the team win?

Go back and have a look at the Wolves and Newcastle games where Gakpo did play as the #9 and see how threatening we looked first half.

Is it just coincidence the 2 games Nunez plays almost no part in, we lose both?

Seriously you need your head checked on Nunez - you’re just making shit up that makes no sense.

Yes it is a coincidence and no - Gakpo hasn’t scored tap-ins based on Darwin’s good work.

 

[StevieM]

I don't want you to say anything, I just found your description of him funny given that it was a response to mine.

And no, wasn't me that mentioned goals per mins - likely binomial or someone else. The last thing I want to do is talk about stats.

I mostly meant re: Gakpo that he's more of a system player that is better when the team is functioning around him and less the sort of player that will dig you out of a rut on his own.

I don't think the options we have right now are good / reliable enough unless we a massive upturn of form and quality in Diaz / Nunez / Gakpo.

I sort of agree a but also not. Gakpo was the one that drove the equaliser against Spurs and I thought he was excellent at driving us forward when he came on against Fulham.

I think, what I’m trying to say about Gakpo is that he seems like a nice level-headed chap that isn’t very flamboyant - unlike Nunez who’s a maniac.

I think because of that Gakpo gets underrated and Nunez gets overrated.

I guess, the easiest way to describe it - is I don’t see Gakpo coming on and destroying Newcastle like Nunez and winning us 3 points - but I also don’t see Gakpo head butting a defender, getting sent off, missing crusades and potentially costing us 5 points.

It depends on your perspective and what you “think” is important and what actually “is” important.

When I say “your perspective” I mean us collectively.

 

[binomial]

Seriously you need your head checked on Nunez - you’re just making shit up that makes no sense.

Yes it is a coincidence and no - Gakpo hasn’t scored tap-ins based on Darwin’s good work.

Ok, scored tap ins based on the teams good work then. Wolves, his first for LASK and Bournemouth were all tap ins which make up 50% of his goals this season.

How many assists has he provided? You say he makes things happen, well how many chances has he created?

How many goals has he scored in big games? What MOTM performances is he putting in, LASK?

Ever heard of if it's not broke, don't fix it? What is he doing to be pushing for a regular place in the XI?

If you can answer these questions to my satisfaction, then I'll say fair enough.

 

[StevieM]

Ok, scored tap ins based on the teams good work then. Wolves, his first for LASK and Bournemouth were all tap ins which make up 50% of his goals this season.

How many assists has he provided? You say he makes things happen, well how many chances has he created?

How many goals has he scored in big games? What MOTM performances is he putting in, LASK?

Ever heard of if it's not broke, don't fix it? What is he doing to be pushing for a regular place in the XI?

If you can answer these questions to my satisfaction, then I'll say fair enough.

Ok then.

What’s the problem with tap ins? Darwin gets then too - or he should if he’s running into the right space.

Assists - have you noticed that a lot of our assists come from our forwards - it’s the way we play - Gakpo’s assists have all come while playing in the attacking 3 - if you look at the minutes he’s played in the attacking 3 Vs the minutes Nunez has played in the attacking 3 you’ll get your answer - it’s highly likely had Gakpo played more in the attacking 3 he’ll have had more goals & more assists than Nunez.

Nunez has it one MOTM performance in - Newcastle - he was brilliant - but that’s about it. Gakpo has been steady - had he not been injured, maybe Spurs - that’s a big game he scored in, is it not?

if it’s not broke - well that’s interesting because that would suggest you’re happy with all our recent results and our current lineups - struggling against Fulham at home, dropping points against Luton - is that what you mean?

I can’t see how I’ll ever be able to answer your question satisfactorily as far as Nunez is concerned - you’ll find some way of pretending he’s actually ace and carrying us.

He’s not a bad player and he could be truly amazing - but as of now he’s not - he’s import, not integral and while I’d still have him starting up front ahead of Gakpo - he needs to be better - and if Gakpo gets a chance and takes it - Nunez is on the bench for sure.

That’s the way it should be.

 

[keniget]

I sort of agree a but also not. Gakpo was the one that drove the equaliser against Spurs and I thought he was excellent at driving us forward when he came on against Fulham.

I think, what I’m trying to say about Gakpo is that he seems like a nice level-headed chap that isn’t very flamboyant - unlike Nunez who’s a maniac.

I think because of that Gakpo gets underrated and Nunez gets overrated.

I guess, the easiest way to describe it - is I don’t see Gakpo coming on and destroying Newcastle like Nunez and winning us 3 points - but I also don’t see Gakpo head butting a defender, getting sent off, missing crusades and potentially costing us 5 points.

It depends on your perspective and what you “think” is important and what actually “is” important.

When I say “your perspective” I mean us collectively.

At this point, I think we need better than both. Gakpo along with Jota and Diaz are supporting cast members (which is absolutely fine)... and I don't know what Nunez is.

We need (or at least I want!) the next Salah / Mane / Suarez / Torres / Sturridge (the good version).

 

[doctor_mac]

Is this thread title jinxy as fuck, or what?

 

[localny]

On a different note, we get goals from so many places these days. Remember when it was just 2 or 3 players who would be relied upong

 

[refugee]

Modo come on lol. There’s only 1 72m man with no goals and 8 big chances missed…look at the table you posted. Nobody in football is talking about him.

If Nunez missed were costing us games then I’d get it but he was left on the pitch and we won. Nothing to moan about but instead of celebrating the win or talking about yet another injury, all the attention goes on Nunez. It’s boring.

I want to point out that you spent an entire season taking horseshit about how we shouldn't judge donkey because of his fee, because he was young and because it his first season in a new country, but here you are telling us we should ignore donkeys performance because a younger player, with a large fee, in a new country is not performing.

 

[binomial]

Does anyone care to guess who else makes the top 5 of G/A per 90 in the league of all players with 500+ mins?

Haaland Salah Isak Watkins annnnnnnnnnnnnnd ? (he's actually 4th in the list)

You know, since we wanna all throw around stats and figures when it suits our argument.

 

[Buddha]

It’s fine enough margins with Nunez right now. He pressed his arse off on Sunday and his relentless running and positivity played a big part in the lead up to the winner.

If he’d converted that galloping chance off the underside of the bar second half, he’d have had a really good game.

 

[rurikbird]

It’s fine enough margins with Nunez right now. He pressed his arse off on Sunday and his relentless running and positivity played a big part in the lead up to the winner.

If he’d converted that galloping chance off the underside of the bar second half, he’d have had a really good game.

Klopp or maybe Bielsa needs to have a word with him about shooting with accuracy instead of power in certain situations. Like Endo’s goal was just passed into the top corner from 25 yards and it was still unsavable. Nunez often hits the ball just a touch too hard and hits the post/crossbar instead of back of the net. Salah shoots with less power than Nunez with better results.

 

[tomasjj]

Does anyone care to guess who else makes the top 5 of G/A per 90 in the league of all players with 500+ mins?

Haaland Salah Isak Watkins annnnnnnnnnnnnnd ? (he's actually 4th in the list)

You know, since we wanna all throw around stats and figures when it suits our argument.

conversion rate 1/20000000000

 

[tomasjj]

It’s fine enough margins with Nunez right now. He pressed his arse off on Sunday and his relentless running and positivity played a big part in the lead up to the winner.

If he’d converted that galloping chance off the underside of the bar second half, he’d have had a really good game.

I would had been happier if he had nailed that chance from 7 yards out that he fluffed completely.

 

[moron]

Klopp or maybe Bielsa needs to have a word with him about shooting with accuracy instead of power in certain situations. Like Endo’s goal was just passed into the top corner from 25 yards and it was still unsavable. Nunez often hits the ball just a touch too hard and hits the post/crossbar instead of back of the net. Salah shoots with less power than Nunez with better results.

This is what I think of Nunez and also some other players in our squad - like Jota, and Joe Gomez.

There are some players in world football - where you only see the best of when they are given the sole responsibility to perform a given task, and I believe the reason for that is because they don't have to think about the overall play and those around them to even think about "is my team-mate in a better position, can I pass to him" - no they are best just sticking to the task they were given.

1) We were so worried two seasons ago when Mane and Salah were at AFCON, and all we had was really Jota to help us out, and if you recall against Arsenal in that away leg - he produced the goods, no thinking about team-mates or positioning just did his stuff and scored.

2) Gomez - this season, when VVD was out, he was put into defence and did not put a foot wrong, in fact we had our first clean sheet against Aston Villa with Gomez at the back, and Quansah/Matip at hand to assist. I would say he has been brilliant - and I see him just performing a task, and has shown leadership qualities this season for the back-line. He seems to thrive on being given that responsibility - somehow frees him from almost asking Virgil permission to do X,Y,Z.

3) Now Nunez - look at him for Uruguay - no reason why he should be scoring and playing better as I would argue that LFC have a better squad than Uruguay. I think he is trusted to lead the line, not worry about bringing his colleagues into play, just being him by himself and focussing on scoring/creating. If you cast your mind against Newcastle - he was so effective because he knew he had to produce if he could, no left sided winger mate to work with - he was actually covering the ground our front 3 would normally occupy.

I just feel that sometimes especially in the case of Nunez and somewhat Gakpo - they both are determined to score but that final third is congested - you kind of get that feel. Also Nunez may not be yet Salah's replacement but he kind of is the guy that is doing the Bobby role in a totally different way through his Chaos, keeping opposition defenders pinned back due to his pace. Also I feel he is getting as much attention from defenders as Salah gets - not surprising he fluffed his lines against Man City - that moment he was surrounded by 3 and then 4 players.

 

[binomial]

conversion rate 1/20000000000

4/17 - 23.5%

It isn't great granted but we knew this stemming back from last season but what the 1 area he lacks in he makes up for in with his general play.

Isak's conversion rate is 58.3%, does that make him better than Haaland then who has 48.2%?

 

[Modo]

4/17 - 23.5%

It isn't great granted but we knew this stemming back from last season but what the 1 area he lacks in he makes up for in with his general play.

Isak's conversion rate is 58.3%, does that make him better than Haaland then who has 48.2%?

Of course Isak is better (my bias has nothing to do with it)

 

[moron]

Of course Isak is better (my bias has nothing to do with it)

Your bias has completely clouded your judgement Nunez is a far more all action hero than your swedish bro.

 

[Modo]

Your bias has completely clouded your judgement Nunez is a far more all action hero than your swedish bro.

Me acknowledging that a Norwegian is better than my Swedish brethren?
No chance.

 

[StevieM]

Does anyone care to guess who else makes the top 5 of G/A per 90 in the league of all players with 500+ mins?

Haaland Salah Isak Watkins annnnnnnnnnnnnnd ? (he's actually 4th in the list)

You know, since we wanna all throw around stats and figures when it suits our argument.

So… does that mean he’s a creative genius or surrounded by teammates that are better at scoring - because it’s not his goals that are getting him on that list - it’s assists?

He SHOULD be on that list because he’s been banging in more goals than he has - he should have closer to 10 goals in the league.

4’s way below his capabilities.

 

[Dreambeliever]

No offence, but it's starting to sound like the same excuses some were making for Andy Carroll.

Not at all.

 

[Hyena]

Klopp or maybe Bielsa needs to have a word with him about shooting with accuracy instead of power in certain situations. Like Endo’s goal was just passed into the top corner from 25 yards and it was still unsavable. Nunez often hits the ball just a touch too hard and hits the post/crossbar instead of back of the net. Salah shoots with less power than Nunez with better results.

I would had been happier if he had nailed that chance from 7 yards out that he fluffed completely.

I think the difference between Nunez's shot and Endo's is that Salah had set it up nicely for Endo, while Nunez had just busted his lungs to first, cover 1/3 the length of the pitch, out sprint the defender, reach the ball, and then get a shot off. Same for the 7 yard chance which he had run into. It's a lot harder to get yourself into the correct shape to get a shot off with any power in those circumstances, let alone take aim.

I think any of our forwards could have missed those attempts, even Salah. But not all of them could have even gotten the shot off.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Nunez isn’t scoring but our results have been decent.

 

[King Binny]

 

[Farkmaster]

He's a little unlucky, but some of these crossbar hits shouldn't have been anywhere near the crossbar.

 

[binomial]

What were the 5?

His worst was clearly against Toulouse right where he rounds the keeper? But that isn't 1 of the 5's if it's only counting the Prem.

I remember Villa where it rebounds for an OG, should be scoring it. Remember 1 at Everton which Pickford saved onto the bar, it was an outrageous effort but that was last season.

The Fulham and Luton ones were tough chances and would be tough for any striker to score as in both scenarios he had to take the chance first time due to a defender bearing down on him......they were great efforts. Most of his misses are when he gets the execution all wrong.

 

[binomial]

Another assist, did more in 15mins than Gakpo Diaz Salah did in 70+


Goals + assists across all comps

Mo Salah
@22 yo (season 14/15): 1 every 140.0 mins
@23yo (season 15/16): 1 every 154.5 mins
@24yo (season 16/17): 1 every 93.7 mins

Darwin Nunez
@22yo (season 21/22): 1 every 74.2 mins
@23yo (season 22/23): 1 every 124.5 mins
@24yo (season 23/24): 1 every 78.8 mins

 

[Stevesquash]

Yeah, he was great when he came on yesterday. Missed a decent chance, but it was a difficult one and realistically our other strikers wouldn't have made that run and therefore the chance.

I think it's time to stop obsessing about how many goals/assists he is getting and if we keep on winning and he visibly has a big mpact then I don't care if he doesn't score 10.

It's about how the team plays with him, not how many he scores.