THE ASHES... 2009

[Oncy]

Great great test match that.
Obviously there were some major failings on our part, and psychological boost aside we havnt really got much to be positive about.
The Australians were mentally and tactically better throughout 4 and 4/5 of the game and if our lads didnt know they had a batting line up they do now. Yes the pitch was dead, yes there wasnt the expected movement, but they showed without doubt that we are going to need something other than swing to knock them out. I would like to see Harmison recalled immediately (telling that he was claiming a fivefer for Durham while our lads were toiling on day 3 and the Aussi's were racking up centurions) and i think serious questions need to be asked about Cooks place in the side.
Most importantly of all, Pieterson needs told that throwing your wicket away will get you dropped.
Ultimately we should be chuffed, and Collingwood deserves great praise (although he too threw his wicket away).
Anyway. We've pinched this. Lets move on.

 

[HC]

Fantastisch!

 

[Portly]

[quote author=Gareth link=topic=33622.msg904415#msg904415 date=1247354886]
It'll be over before tea.
[/quote]

😉

 

[leftpeg]

Harmison has to come back in for one of the spinners (Monty). We got away with this one. Australia had much the better of the match, dominating most of the sessions. Lords next where we have a terrible Ashes record.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg904576#msg904576 date=1247410777]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg904494#msg904494 date=1247395302]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg904442#msg904442 date=1247371154]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872634#msg872634 date=1242992298]

Haddin will get found out on our tracks and he certainly weakens there batting for me.

[/quote]

Hark at Mystic Meg - 😉
[/quote]

1st test and one innings in, lets just wait and see what happens after 5 have been played.
[/quote]

Go on admit it - he's better than your first thought.
[/quote]

Even at the back end of the test Anderson and Monty made that pitch look easy to bat on, so I'm not going to admit anything yet. Lets just wait and see how he's done come the end of the tour.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Monty out and Harmy in please.

I see that Ponting is spewing about the 12th man and physio coming on.

 

[Judge Jules]

That's his conscience talking. He put the wrong bowlers on in the last two sessions and he knows it. Even so, IF England play to their potential, these are definitely beatable.

 

[SummerOnions]

Onions for Broad
Harmison for Panesar.

Sorted.

 

[Claude]

Well done Paul Collingwood. I thought that was a cracking innings.

Great entertainment, looked like a great atmosphere too.

Anyone going to any of the other tests??

 

[Atlas]

The 12th man and the physio coming on is akin to making subs and a player getting cramp in the final minutes of a big match, it was gamesmanship at it's best but Ponting can f**k off the miserable git.
Well done Collingwood/Swann/Monty/Anderson brillaint stuff, how a draw can be so exciting I'll never know but it sure was the Aussies will feel as if they lost this one.

 

[Brizzle]

Although Broad was pretty bad this game, I would keep him on at Lords so that we can still have some genuine fast pace. Harmison down the slope is a must and I think that him and Broad/Anderson with the new ball could be lethal if one of them is on form.

Monty out, Harmison in.

 

[Ryan]

England got away with fucking muder there. Hark at all these people clamouring for paper to cover the cracks; 'Harmison in for Monty, we need pace!'

Bigger picture folks. You were outplayed, outthought, outfought, and you only just got what you were looking for - not to lose.

The defining moment of the whole test was the last bout of play at the end of day one; England scoring for fun, tails up, the Australians body langauge shot to pieces, and all teh ascendancy with the hosts. The tourists were on the ropes, and what does Strauss do? Sends in a nightwatchman and irrevocably shifts the momentum. You could just see Strauss' thinking - 'Christ, look what we've got here, lets not give it away'. Instead of piling on the pressure and looking to win the game, he took the opportunity of not losing. Not in one million years would Ponting have backed off like that.

For me, england have too many weaknesses. So if you take Panesar out, that leaves you with Swann as your spin option for Lords. How many wickets did he take over the last 5 days exactly? How many wickets did Freddie 'would everyone please look at me I just took a wicket!' Flintoff have by the end of the test? KP? Alastair fucking Cook?

You can be happy with the efforts of Anderson, Collingwood, and Prior. That's yer lot.

Australia on the other hand have the best bowler on the field in Hilfenhaus, have Hauritz taking wickets of top-order batsmen, could have scored 1000 runs in one innings if they'd wanted, have the far FAR better captain, and did all this after losing the fucking toss.

This is Australia's Ashes to lose.

 

[Ryan]

Great article from Paul Hayward in The Guardian.

Kevin Pietersen's emphasis on me, myself and I detrimental to EnglandNot for the first time England leave a Test match feeling: "We Need to Talk About Kevin."


Not for the first time England leave a Test match feeling: "We Need to Talk About Kevin." The heroics from Graeme Swann, Jimmy Anderson and Monty Panesar were from 2005's melodrama manual, but attention will shift to why the tail-enders were placed in such a stressful position in the first place. Many of those inquiries will lead to Kevin Pietersen.

Entertainment swept anger off the board as evening's shadows lengthened across Cardiff. Ricky Ponting was not so much chewing his nails as eating his fingers as victory ebbed and Panesar discovered a survival instinct he never knew he had. The most unconvincing of Test No11s came to the crease needing to endure a minimum 11.3 overs. Impossible, surely. Until exultation took over, England's dispirited followers had fretted away the day wanting to know why their bowlers had made so few inroads, why so many senior batsmen had tossed away their wickets.

Pietersen can expect no balm of praise or gratitude from this relieved jury. Talent's curse is that forgiveness is never abundant when brilliance is abused. England's best batsman fell in this match playing a circus stroke and then no shot at all. First came the paddle sweep that ended his innings on 69. Then he offered no shot on eight to a straight ball from Ben Hilfenhaus that sent his off-stump wheeling just when England needed him to construct a classic Test match knock.

Chagrin seized the Anglo-Welsh congregation. And it went deeper as the miscalculation was replayed. Pietersen has run into real trouble in this Test. Ritual defiance will not protect him from the suspicion that his lone wolf tendencies are now hurting the team. His first aberration was a needlessly showboating attempt to parade his own star quality at a time when England needed to build an unassailable total, and his second was a baffling display of muddled thought before he had made it to double figures.

In his News of the World column, Australia's Oval nemesis from 2005 was unrepentant. "The sooner people realise I will keep on playing shots, and I will keep on playing the way I play, the better. I looked at the dismissal from the first innings and it does look quite funny and quite peculiar," he wrote. "But I'd actually played with a lot of restraint up until that point and I've played the paddle sweep so many times before.

"If it hadn't hit my head then it would have gone down to fine leg and I would have gone on to 70-odd. I don't want to take anything away from my game by thinking too much about what is being said and written about me."

If there were no sirens blaring in England's control room before Pietersen offered up those quotes, there should be now, because they express a kind of me-myself-and-I complex which suggests his bitterness at losing the captaincy has taken on a new form.

Even before he fell to Hilfenhaus to leave England 31 for three, he had been scolded over the airwaves by the former England captain, Tony Greig, who said: "It is Strauss's job. As captain you'll be saying to Pietersen: 'Listen, we all know how well you can play. You don't need to prove anything to us with these fancy shots.' If I was Strauss I'd be saying: 'Save these up for Twenty20 cricket or now and then the 50-over format but in Test matches if you play any more shots like that we'll have to seriously consider giving someone else a go.' You've got to be firm with these guys. None of the Australians attempted a shot like that."

The context to Pietersen's third Ashes summer is his disastrous coup d'etat against Peter Moores, Andy Flower and most of the England coaching staff. Flower is now his immediate boss and the one responsible for curbing his maverick ways. The party line has been that Pietersen's self-absorption is manageable in the England context because he needs international cricket to sustain his profile and therefore will always yield in the end to the greater good.

In a foreword to a Pietersen biography by Wayne Veysey, Clive Rice, the former South Africa captain, says: "Kevin's downfall is often over-exuberance. I think he can go where no batsman has gone before if he can improve his concentration and learn to hit a six followed by a single rather than three sixes in an over, or one to bring up a century. He does occasionally play some stupid shots at that stage of his innings, like when he got out for 97 in Jamaica against the West Indies in February 2009 by slogging it straight up in the air."

Rice's take on Pietersen's ego is that "you boost it and boost it again", which is not a course likely to appeal to Strauss and Flower as they review his contribution here. Pietersen could respond that in three Ashes series openers, he has top-scored in three of six innings and struck 92 in another. But then you remember he was given a lesson in diligent batting by Monty Panesar.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg904777#msg904777 date=1247443657]
England got away with fucking muder there. Hark at all these people clamouring for paper to cover the cracks; 'Harmison in for Monty, we need pace!'

Bigger picture folks. You were outplayed, outthought, outfought, and you only just got what you were looking for - not to lose.

The defining moment of the whole test was the last bout of play at the end of day one; England scoring for fun, tails up, the Australians body langauge shot to pieces, and all teh ascendancy with the hosts. The tourists were on the ropes, and what does Strauss do? Sends in a nightwatchman and irrevocably shifts the momentum. You could just see Strauss' thinking - 'Christ, look what we've got here, lets not give it away'. Instead of piling on the pressure and looking to win the game, he took the opportunity of not losing. Not in one million years would Ponting have backed off like that.

For me, england have too many weaknesses. So if you take Panesar out, that leaves you with Swann as your spin option for Lords. How many wickets did he take over the last 5 days exactly? How many wickets did Freddie 'would everyone please look at me I just took a wicket!' Flintoff have by the end of the test? KP? Alastair fucking Cook?

You can be happy with the efforts of Anderson, Collingwood, and Prior. That's yer lot.

Australia on the other hand have the best bowler on the field in Hilfenhaus, have Hauritz taking wickets of top-order batsmen, could have scored 1000 runs in one innings if they'd wanted, have the far FAR better captain, and did all this after losing the fucking toss.

This is Australia's Ashes to lose.
[/quote]I think youre getting a bit carried away.
Not one person is going to deny we were humped all over Wales, but to take a positive from it, Australia played as near to their best as they have since S.A and they couldnt put us away. They should have won, they didnt, that in itself is testament to the one thing English teams are known for endeavor and fighting spirit.
I dont think our top order will play that badly again for a start. Edgebaston and Headingley will be far better tracks for our bowlers to get some movement from.
You have highlighted my biggest concern for sure and thats the boy Cook. He doesnt do enough for me. Id be tempted to move Pieterson up and hope that the added responsibility of opening will make him pack in the silly shit.
Panesar needs dropping, he hasnt taken wickets all year.
Swann got 78 runs which is invaluable and on tracks that turn he will take wickets so im not worried about him.

Anyway, im not one for big talk and sabre rattling, i prefer to talk about the facts without the jingoism. Yeah we got a brutalising and questions need to be asked for sure, but its no ones to lose yet, thats a crazy thing to say.

Oh and i agree with Ponting, the physio and 12th man coming on was very unpleasant.

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

Cos the Aussies don't push the rules to the limit do they? Touché Ricky, maybe from now on you won't spend 45 seconds every ball appealing for a wicket that never was.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=33622.msg904925#msg904925 date=1247482500]
Cos the Aussies don't push the rules to the limit do they? Touché Ricky, maybe from now on you won't spend 45 seconds every ball appealing for a wicket that never was.
[/quote]True dat true dat.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

So everyone is agreed that England played well below there best and the Aussies put in a very good performance, yet they couldn't win?

The Aussies must be gutted, they had more than a whole day to bowl England out on a fifth day pitch and couldn't do it. Ponting's captaincy must be questioned once again, the decisions to under bowl Hilfenhaus (clearly the most impressive performer on that pitch) and then choose to bowl North at the end were truly shocking. I can't think of a single Aussie Ashes team over the last 15 or so years that would have failed to win that game (most of those teams would have had it tied up with a session to spare).

It looks like both sides will make 1 change each maximum, Lee/Clark in for Siddle/Hauritz and Harmy/Onions in for Monty. I agree with the concern about Cook, yet there are fuck all options for England to opt for in the opening department. I bet the Aussies are wishing that Warne had stuck around, whilst England would give anything to be able to select Marcus Trescothick again.

England had a shocker and some how got away with it, it'll be interesting to see how much this test will cost the Aussies come the end of the series.

 

[H]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg904777#msg904777 date=1247443657]
England got away with fucking muder there. Hark at all these people clamouring for paper to cover the cracks; 'Harmison in for Monty, we need pace!'

Bigger picture folks. You were outplayed, outthought, outfought, and you only just got what you were looking for - not to lose.

The defining moment of the whole test was the last bout of play at the end of day one; England scoring for fun, tails up, the Australians body langauge shot to pieces, and all teh ascendancy with the hosts. The tourists were on the ropes, and what does Strauss do? Sends in a nightwatchman and irrevocably shifts the momentum. You could just see Strauss' thinking - 'Christ, look what we've got here, lets not give it away'. Instead of piling on the pressure and looking to win the game, he took the opportunity of not losing. Not in one million years would Ponting have backed off like that.

For me, england have too many weaknesses. So if you take Panesar out, that leaves you with Swann as your spin option for Lords. How many wickets did he take over the last 5 days exactly? How many wickets did Freddie 'would everyone please look at me I just took a wicket!' Flintoff have by the end of the test? KP? Alastair fucking Cook?

You can be happy with the efforts of Anderson, Collingwood, and Prior. That's yer lot.

Australia on the other hand have the best bowler on the field in Hilfenhaus, have Hauritz taking wickets of top-order batsmen, could have scored 1000 runs in one innings if they'd wanted, have the far FAR better captain, and did all this after losing the fucking toss.

This is Australia's Ashes to lose.
[/quote]


OutTHOUGHT???? North on at the end, kin'el my 2 month old daughter wouldnt have done that!!

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Interesting how Ponting is moaning about the time wasting. His side bowl an OK over rate all game, but then on the final day miraculously manage to up it significantly.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Thomson calls Ponting a ‘crap’ skipper
Ians July 1st, 2009
MELBOURNE - Former Australian pacer Jeff Thomson pulled a barbed shaft at compatriot Ricky Ponting, calling him a “crap†skipper with few supporters in the country.
Thomson believes England with Andrew Strauss have a clear advantage in leadership and in reclaiming the Ashes in a series that begins July 8.

“I thought Ricky was crap when he was first captain in 2004 and nothing much has improved since then,†Thomson was quoted as saying in the Australian media Wednesday.
“I’m not the only one who thinks that. Everyone at home thinks he’s crap at the captaincy. He’s a great player but captaincy is a totally different thing.
Thomson, considered to be the fastest bowler to have played Test cricket, was mystified at Australia’s selection of Ponting for the job five years ago. He believes the 34 year-old batsman is still struggling in the role.

“I couldn’t believe it when he was picked as captain. There was no one else to pick but Ponting still had no experience. He’d only captained one side ever before. How did he get to lead Australia with that sort of experience? “He was in a side that had very good players and now he’s got a side that has average players. He’s still left wanting.
“You see it on him - he gets frustrated. He worries when the players don’t do what he’s used to with the ball when he passes it to them. This is half the reason he’s got a bloke in there who can’t even spin a ball (Nathan Hauritz).

“He just wants someone to bowl tight but that’s not going to get you wickets. The choices he makes, his field settings and the things he does are never right.
Thomson, who had come to the limelight with 33 wickets in the 1974-75 Ashes, feels Australia will have to perform their best against England.
“England have the edge in the captaincy department. But while England have a better captain, Australia have a better line-up.â€

“They’ll need to play a lot better than they did in South Africa because the conditions are different,†he said. “I’ve played in England many times and it’s much harder for the bowlers, but I think we’ll win the series by a single Test.â€


MELBOURNE/CARDIFF - A panel of Australian cricketing experts, including Nick McArdle, Damien Fleming and Mark Waugh, have concluded that Australian captain Ricky Ponting’s tactics on the final day of the first Ashes Test at Cardiff, Wales, came up short, and this enabled England to salvage a draw.

Former Australia fast bowler Damien Fleming said he was mystified by Ponting’s decision to remove pace bowler Ben Hilfenhaus just after he had taken the crucial wicket of Graeme Swann to leave the hosts reeling at 8-221.

“I do not know,†Fleming said when asked why Ponting had taken Australia’s in-form quick out of the attack at such a pivotal moment.

“I would have liked to see Hilfenhaus and (Peter) Siddle bowl together for about half-a-dozen ovrs when they took that ninth wicket. That didn’t happen … I’m sure we will hear a fair bit from it in the next couple of days.â€

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33622.msg904929#msg904929 date=1247483393]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=33622.msg904925#msg904925 date=1247482500]
Cos the Aussies don't push the rules to the limit do they? Touché Ricky, maybe from now on you won't spend 45 seconds every ball appealing for a wicket that never was.
[/quote]True dat true dat.
[/quote]

Interestingly the "delays" would have only meant an extra over and seeing as they couldn't get our lads out in the previous 15 odd then I'm sure we'd have survived an extra one. Sour grapes from Ponting but in all honesty I'd prefer not to see that sort of thing from England.

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

I am amazed that the 2 spinners finished the game with a relatively new ball and 2 non-batsmen at the crease. I was dreading Siddle and Hilfenhaus peppering Monty with short aggressive bowling. He wouldn't have lasted 12 balls never mind 12 overs.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Oh Shit!

Steve Harmison - in England squad for Lord's.



All-rounder Andrew Flintoff has emerged as a doubt for this week's second Ashes Test at Lord's after experiencing discomfort in the same knee which was operated on earlier this year.

The 31-year-old Lancastrian has been included in a 14-man squad for Thursday's Test at Lord's, but is due to go for a scan later on Monday to determine the extent of the soreness he experienced in his right knee during the drawn opening Test.

England have added Durham fast bowler Steve Harmison to the squad as cover for Flintoff, who only returned to action after undergoing surgery on the same knee last month after injuring it during his spell in the Indian Premier League.

Flintoff is due to be examined over the next two days before England make a decision on his fitness, but the latest injury setback for their influential all-rounder is bound to be seen as a concern just a few days before the start of the next Test.

"Andrew is experiencing soreness and swelling in the knee which he twisted while in the field and he will be reassessed by the medical staff over the next 48 hours leading up to the Test on Thursday," said national selector Geoff Miller.

"In the event of Andrew being unfit, we see Stephen as a like-for-like replacement in terms of the type of bowler he is and his ability to unsettle the opposition batsmen with pace and bounce.

"But we will need to consider all our options carefully when we come to determine the make-up of our bowling attack at Lord's and the final decision will depend on our assessment of the pitch and the likely overhead conditions."

Flintoff played two championship matches and two Twenty20 Cup games for Lancashire before being recalled for the Ashes squad, although he was disciplined by England for missing the team bus on a pre-Test trip to Belgium to visit First World War battle sites.

He was the most hostile England bowler on show during the opening Test and played a part in the dramatic success in saving the game, batting with Paul Collingwood for 91 minutes.

Harmison's return after claiming wickets for England Lions against Australia and for Durham this week against Yorkshire at Headingley will boost the bowling options, although the selectors may have to look at the batting line-up if Flintoff is ruled out.

Durham seamer Graham Onions and Warwickshire batsman Ian Bell, who were named in the squad for the first Test but missed out on the starting line-up, retain their places alongside the line-up who drew in Cardiff.

"It required a tremendous effort to save the first Test and no praise can be high enough for the fighting qualities shown by Paul Collingwood together with our lower order batsmen," said Miller.

"Their application at the crease and determination to get the job done was first-rate.

"We are well aware, however, that we did not perform well in Cardiff over the five days and will need to improve in all areas of our game if we are to overcome what is a strong Australian side."

England squad: A Strauss (capt), J Anderson, I Bell, R Bopara, S Broad, P Collingwood, A Cook, A Flintoff, S Harmison, G Onions, M Panesar, K Pietersen, M Prior (wkt), G Swann

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

Harmison included in the squad of 14 for the second test starting on thursday. Flintoff a doubt with an injured right knee.
England squad: A Strauss (capt), J Anderson, I Bell, R Bopara, S Broad, P Collingwood, A Cook, A Flintoff, S Harmison, G Onions, M Panesar, K Pietersen, M Prior (wkt), G Swann

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12123_5431152,00.html

England have added Steve Harmison to their squad for the second Test against Australia at Lord's as cover for Andrew Flintoff.

Flintoff twisted his right knee during the drawn series opener in Cardiff and will undergo a scan later on Monday to assess the extent of the problem.

With doubts over the Lancashire all-rounder's fitness, Harmison is named in a 14-man party for the Lord's Test, which starts on Thursday.

The 13 players in the first-Test squad are all retained.

Harmison was dropped after the third Test of England's tour of West Indies in February but has since produced some strong displays in county cricket for Durham.

The 30-year-old also impressed for the England Lions in their tour match against Australia at the start of July, claiming six wickets in the match including Phil Hughes in each innings.

England escaped from Cardiff with a draw after batting out the final day. Last-wicket pair James Anderson and Monty Panesar survived the final 69 deliveries to secure the stalemate.

National selector Geoff Miller, however, admitted England need to improve at Lord's.

"It required a tremendous effort to save the 1st npower Test match and no praise can be high enough for the fighting qualities shown by Paul Collingwood together with our lower order batsmen," said national selector Geoff Miller.

"Their application at the crease and determination to get the job done was first-rate

"We are well aware, however, that we did not perform well in Cardiff over the five days and will need to improve in all areas of our game if we are to overcome what is a strong Australian side.

"We have added Stephen Harmison to our squad for the next Test match as Andrew Flintoff injured his right knee at Cardiff and will undergo a precautionary scan later today.

"Andrew is experiencing soreness and swelling in the knee which he twisted while in the field and he will be reassessed by the medical staff over the next forty eight hours leading up to the Test Match on Thursday.

"In the event of Andrew being unfit, we see Stephen as a like for like replacement in terms of the type of bowler he is and his ability to unsettle the opposition batsmen with pace and bounce.

"But we will need to consider all our options carefully when we come to determine the make-up of our bowling attack at Lord's and the final decision will depend on our assessment of the pitch and the likely overhead conditions."

Flintoff, 31, underwent surgery on his right knee in April to repair damaged cartilage.

He suffered the injury while on playing for the Chennai Super Kings in the Indian Premier League but had worked his way back to fitness for the start of the Ashes.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

"Id be tempted to move Pieterson up and hope that the added responsibility of opening will make him pack in the silly shit".


Are you being serious Oncy?

 

[Judge Jules]

Am I the only one who thinks Bell's a waste of a place in the squad?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg905013#msg905013 date=1247493150]
"Id be tempted to move Pieterson up and hope that the added responsibility of opening will make him pack in the silly shit".


Are you being serious Oncy?
[/quote]Yes.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33622.msg905022#msg905022 date=1247494228]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg905013#msg905013 date=1247493150]
"Id be tempted to move Pieterson up and hope that the added responsibility of opening will make him pack in the silly shit".


Are you being serious Oncy?
[/quote]Yes.
[/quote]

Ok.

Well thankfully that will never happen, seeing as it would be crazy and a waste of Englands best batsman.

 

[Portly]

[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=33622.msg904986#msg904986 date=1247489773]
I am amazed that the 2 spinners finished the game with a relatively new ball and 2 non-batsmen at the crease. I was dreading Siddle and Hilfenhaus peppering Monty with short aggressive bowling. He wouldn't have lasted 12 balls never mind 12 overs.
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly.

The only reason I can think of, is that Ponting thought he would get more overs in with the spinners.

 

[Judge Jules]

Agreed. It was, in short, a touch of arrogance on Ponting's part - "they don't bat down to 11, the spinners can winkle 'em out, let's give ourselves more overs in which to do it just in case."