The 2nd place 85 point Rafa squad versus now
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Absolutely. Mascherano was incredibly effective, a 90-minute terrier constantly snapping at the heels of the opposition. Lucas is OK but he doesn't have the dynamism or the tackling ability.
That team was better in every position bar up top. Suarez is better.
And I actually think Arbeloa was a better all round RB than Johnson.
And I actually think Arbeloa was a better all round RB than Johnson.
I'm not sure I agree that Suarez is better than "that" Torres - as good as, but Torres was a golden god at that point and his strike rate over his Anfield career is currently better than Suarez.
But it's splitting hairs - both phenomenal players.
Fox has surpassed himself, some classics in here, straight off RAWK.
As you say it's splitting hairs, but I'd say that while you're arguably right about Torres' striking, Suarez's overall play makes him the better player.
Torres ended up at 1 in 1.75 games for us, Suarez is currently 1 in 2 (and form suggests this will get better) but he also creates an awful lot for the team, whereas Torres was iffy in this department (especially in his last year).
That's fair enough but if I had choice right now I'd still take Suarez. I love watching him play more than any other player since Robbie.
Goalie was in better form
Fullbacks were equal. We have good fullbacks if we get the rest of the engine to work.
CDs equal.
Midfield is a lot worse now. Mascher and Alonso together with Gerrard is 10x Allen/Hendo/Lucas together with Gerrard.
Wingers were quite equal, and Suarez is doing a Torres, now with assistance of Sturrdige.
So the BIG difference is the engine room. We had Mascher and Xabi and now we have Lucas and the Welsh Xavi. Huge difference.
And of course the system. We are better now when Suarez can go riot in extreme poor and open defences while at that time we were an organized unit ready for PL.
Fullbacks were equal. We have good fullbacks if we get the rest of the engine to work.
CDs equal.
Midfield is a lot worse now. Mascher and Alonso together with Gerrard is 10x Allen/Hendo/Lucas together with Gerrard.
Wingers were quite equal, and Suarez is doing a Torres, now with assistance of Sturrdige.
So the BIG difference is the engine room. We had Mascher and Xabi and now we have Lucas and the Welsh Xavi. Huge difference.
And of course the system. We are better now when Suarez can go riot in extreme poor and open defences while at that time we were an organized unit ready for PL.
The most impressive with Rafas team was they way we behaved without ball. We were very compact as you say, and every man had another one just close to him. So a oppositon player passing one of our would run straight into a new one. We were very hard to break down, and we showed that especially in Europe.
The downside about that kind of pressure and approach is that it cost a lot of energy, and we were dependant on Stevie and Nando to produce the goods forward. When we succeeded we attacked as a unit as well, but for high tempo games the hard defensive work cost us going forward. Hence we looked a bit boring and stereotype, which also annoyed a lot of fans, including me. I remember to scream for fullbacks to double up on the flanks and cursing that midfielders did not fill up the box. And now I scream for a defensive unit who will not allow Wilshere to open us up time and time gain by walking through the midfield 🙂
They sure do., Mourinho is another master of this game. Which took his Porto to the CL heaven! Capello is another. Madrileños are not to crazy about it as they sacked him twice after that approach won the title!
I have high hopes for the future of lucas/hendo/shelvey/allen
you lot have always over rated masher, he scored fuck all, gave away fouls too often, got sent off a lot, passed backwards or sideways, never assisted a goal.
he was a stopper, why did he move to centre half if he was so amazing as a CM (apart from the fact the other CM were better)
maybe not next season but the one after our squad will be as good as Rafa's 2008 one
miserable lot
you lot have always over rated masher, he scored fuck all, gave away fouls too often, got sent off a lot, passed backwards or sideways, never assisted a goal.
he was a stopper, why did he move to centre half if he was so amazing as a CM (apart from the fact the other CM were better)
maybe not next season but the one after our squad will be as good as Rafa's 2008 one
miserable lot
Apart from the giving away the fouls and the always being sent off bit, he also described Downing's Liverpool career!
I'm sure there's a Fox saying Downing is good enough to play for us. Probably a different Fox
lucas as good as mascher
well fox is just as insane now as he always was, that's refreshing
well fox is just as insane now as he always was, that's refreshing
There have been times when I've reckoned you got too bumpy a ride on here, but this Masher stuff is certifiably insane. One of the reasons the balance of that 2008 side was so good is precisely that Masher was a one-man wrecking crew back in midfield, taking care of the rough stuff and setting the likes of Stevie free to do what he does best. Otherwise Stevie and Alonso would have had to do a lot more defending and would never have had the same time and freedom to play their best attacking football. Much of what you say about Masher applies at least as much to Lucas (no goals, too many fouls given away, never assists a goal) and he will never be even remotely as good at the defensive stuff as Masher was.
It was probably the same people that said playing Masher & Lucas together was stupid and were also advocating only playing Masher in away games because he was useless at home.
He was like Wolverine - the best there is at what he does - but what he does ain't nice.
Heh, Lucas and Masher together WAS stupid, do you remember the games they played together? It was largely fucking dire wasn't it?
Yeah - hehehe - like winning 4-1 at Old Trafford. 🙂
I still remember DB. Being fed up with our football at the time - while we were also beating Real Madrid home & away as well.
Thems the days.
I agree that playing Lucas and Mascherano together was stupid, as Mascherano was a very industrious and effective player who was quite capable of doing the job on his own. Playing Lucas alongside him was a complete waste and was equivalent to taking to the field with 10 men. This was particularly true when we were playing home matches against humble opposition, when our defence wasn't often tested and didn't need two defensive midfielders to protect them. That helps to explain our poor home record under Rafa.
To be fair Ports Lucas was an attacking MF in Brazil .. so WTF happened I don't know !
Agree totally. We signed Lucas as a "box to box midfielder" but Rafa anchored him permanently in our own half. On the rare occasions when he was allowed to venture forward, he was much more effective. I still think we haven't yet seen the best of him.
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