Thanks Rafa

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40468.msg1114000#msg1114000 date=1275773653]
Great post by the count
[/quote]

It was.

As for thanking Rafa, I'm surprised there's even an issue.

He has done a great deal for this club; the only reason why I think his sacking is correct is because I (and many others, I fear) think he can go no further.

 

[manwithnoname]

And let's not forget, when I did the managers poll - only including realistic prospects like Woy and MONg, Benitez came out *way* ahead of the other (shit) options

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=vantage link=topic=40468.msg1114032#msg1114032 date=1275778668]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40468.msg1114031#msg1114031 date=1275778340]
Well, to be honest I dunno who the fuck we should get in.

However, what I personally believe is that under Rafa we would definitely never ever have won the league, no matter how long he was given or even if he was given loads more money. I think he has an inability to see the obvious, makes silly mistakes and doesn't learn from them.

Given the choice between an unknown entity that may or may not be what we so desperately need, or somebody that you are 100% confident will get close, but never fully deliver, my opinion is it was time to take a risk. How calculated that risk turns out to be we'll find out I guess
[/quote]
I don't believe that Rafa could win the league under the current owners, but I don't think anybody can. However I would rather have him in the mix than not. He kept G&T sort of honest.

I'm not saying he could have won it with more money, but I would like to have seen him compete on a level playing field for a year or two.
[/quote]

It's amazing that people still trot out this fucking nonsense.

We had the league in our grasp in 08/09 - it was lost because of poor team selections, tactics and approaches to games with mid table opposition.

He could have won it if he was an above average manager.

 

[manwithnoname]

More mentalist horseshit from Ross

I criticised Benitez almost as much as anyone last season, but mediocre managers do not win as many trophies as Benitez has won

Last season was a disgrace, but to attempt to belittle everything he has won as a manager makes you look a bit deranged

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40468.msg1114140#msg1114140 date=1275814403]
More mentalist horseshit from Ross

I criticised Benitez almost as much as anyone last season, but mediocre managers do not win as many trophies as Benitez has won

Last season was a disgrace, but to attempt to belittle everything he has won as a manager makes you look a bit deranged


[/quote]

Like I care what a hypocritical cunt like you thinks.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Sort yourself out Rosco.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40468.msg1114142#msg1114142 date=1275815045]
Sort yourself out Rosco.


[/quote]

Look it's very simple.

Anyone who thinks Benitez couldn't possibly have won the league is wrong.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=40468.msg1114143#msg1114143 date=1275815307]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40468.msg1114142#msg1114142 date=1275815045]
Sort yourself out Rosco.


[/quote]

Look it's very simple.

Anyone who thinks Benitez couldn't possibly have won the league is wrong.


[/quote]

I wasn't referring to that.

Maybe you just need to chill out a little, after all Rafa has gone now.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=40468.msg1114141#msg1114141 date=1275814716]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40468.msg1114140#msg1114140 date=1275814403]
More mentalist horseshit from Ross

I criticised Benitez almost as much as anyone last season, but mediocre managers do not win as many trophies as Benitez has won

Last season was a disgrace, but to attempt to belittle everything he has won as a manager makes you look a bit deranged


[/quote]

Like I care what a hypocritical cunt like you thinks.


[/quote]Hey! If I got a warning for what I said then that's one for you too milado!

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=vantage link=topic=40468.msg1114026#msg1114026 date=1275777491]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40468.msg1114025#msg1114025 date=1275777272]
I agree that Rafa hasn't been spoken of with the respect he deserves in recent times. I'm putting it down to emotions running high and the Rafa-haters being wound up by the RCDNWers.

I think everyone without exception is grateful though
[/quote]

Hmmm. Pehaps you need to visit the Footie forum more often. As well as some of the resident nutters, one or two of the hierarchy are so anti-Rafa you'd think he'd got us relagated.
[/quote]That simply isn't true Vantage.
I think almost all of the moderators feel that a change was needed, but only Rosco has been particularly outspoken against Rafa.
And again as has been aluded too, an awful lot of the anti-rafa posts come as a direct response to st.benitez type posts that try to totally canonise the man, or question the fandom of those who think it's time for change.
The assumption that people who wanted Rafa out have won and will soon be proven wrong is just ridiculous.
No one has won. Were managerless, skint and out of Europe. No one is winning anything.
I don't believe myself to be either rcdnw or rcdnr, it's perfectly okay to not like rafa the man or the coach and still appreciate what he has done for us. He's left some top players behind, and some top top trophies too, in addition hopefully a long line of talented youths (that could ultimately be his lasting legacy) and to a fan we should be thankful for all of that. Istanbul was a night like no other. But that doesn't mean that thinking he's reached the end if the road 4 years later is the trait of a poor fan, and only a poor fan would suggest it is.

I've made no secret of my dislike for Rafa even when we were winning things, I just havnt and can't warm to the man, and I abhor his behavior in the press (re owners, dirty linen etc) but I'm still thankful for what he gave us and always will be.
I think in general all the mods feel round and about the same way (although I think sunny, fff, wiz and whaddapie all like Rafa)

 

[spider-Neil]

no one is asking people to be hyprocritcal and worship rafa now that his gone when they wanted him out but surely his achievements in the years he was here deserves respect?

 

[themn]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40468.msg1114163#msg1114163 date=1275817862]
no one is asking people to be hyprocritcal and worship rafa now that his gone when they wanted him out but surely his achievements in the years he was here deserves respect?
[/quote]

Way to open the can, Neil.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40468.msg1114163#msg1114163 date=1275817862]
no one is asking people to be hyprocritcal and worship rafa now that his gone when they wanted him out but surely his achievements in the years he was here deserves respect?
[/quote]Not for me no. I respect Roy Evans and it's got nothing to do with what he acheived or did not. I'm still glad rafa came though, and I'm glad for the things he won.
I'm not getting into why it would be wrong for me to say I respect him. Respect what he won, sure.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40468.msg1114168#msg1114168 date=1275818320]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40468.msg1114163#msg1114163 date=1275817862]
no one is asking people to be hyprocritcal and worship rafa now that his gone when they wanted him out but surely his achievements in the years he was here deserves respect?
[/quote]Not for me no. I respect Roy Evans and it's got nothing to do with what he acheived or did not. I'm still glad rafa came though, and I'm glad for the things he won.
I'm not getting into why it would be wrong for me to say I respect him. Respect what he won, sure.
[/quote]

your call if you want to answer me or not oncy, but making liverpool one of 'the' feared teams in europe when before we were a bit of a joke doesn't deserve respect?

 

[Judge Jules]

I don't think you two are actually disagreeing about Rafa's achievements. Seems to me you're both saying they deserve respect. You differ on Rafa the man and that's perfectly legitimate.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=40468.msg1114172#msg1114172 date=1275818604]
I don't think you two are actually disagreeing about Rafa's achievements. Seems to me you're both saying they deserve respect. You differ on Rafa the man and that's perfectly legitimate.
[/quote]^

 

[Terrier]

I don't like Rafa
I don't like his shit tactics
I don't like his shit team selections
I don't like his man management skills
I don't like his press conferences
I don't like his constant wining about not having money to spend when he shat away 60m on Aqua, Keane and Johnson


but thanks for the memories from Istanbul and the Hammer's cup final.


Now let's move on and enjoy what lies ahead.


End of discussion. Lock thread.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40468.msg1114171#msg1114171 date=1275818501]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40468.msg1114168#msg1114168 date=1275818320]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40468.msg1114163#msg1114163 date=1275817862]
no one is asking people to be hyprocritcal and worship rafa now that his gone when they wanted him out but surely his achievements in the years he was here deserves respect?
[/quote]Not for me no. I respect Roy Evans and it's got nothing to do with what he acheived or did not. I'm still glad rafa came though, and I'm glad for the things he won.
I'm not getting into why it would be wrong for me to say I respect him. Respect what he won, sure.
[/quote]

your call if you want to answer me or not oncy, but making liverpool one of 'the' feared teams in europe when before we were a bit of a joke doesn't deserve respect?
[/quote]Theres no point Spide, what would happen if I list my legitimate reasons for not respecting him? A bunch of posters call me a shit fan. Another bunch start laying into him vehemently and all out rcdnw v rcdnr ensues once a fucking gain.
I'll keep my own council. It really isn't worth raking over the same ground every other day.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=40468.msg1114172#msg1114172 date=1275818604]
I don't think you two are actually disagreeing about Rafa's achievements. Seems to me you're both saying they deserve respect. You differ on Rafa the man and that's perfectly legitimate.
[/quote]

for the record there were loads of things that rafa did that I couldn't stand

1. two out and out holding midfielders
2. subs based on 65min regardless of what was going on on the pitch
3. favortism regardless of form
4. caution when a 'little' more adventure would have seen us turn matches (admittedly would have seen us lose a few but I think we'd have secured more points).
5. poor man management for struggling players
6. no quality wide player bought in his entire time here (maxi may be the exception)

I'll give rafa the benefit of the doubt with the failed signings (i.e. alves) because that may well have been circumstances beyond his control

despite the above though, I felt the good far outweighed the bad even to the point of giving him a second chance after a debacle of a season. some say he didn't deserve that second chance and that is a fair opinion but for making liverpool a feared team again (imho) deserves respect whether you hated the man or not.

 

[singlerider]

Yeah, but there's a difference between respecting him and respecting what he achieved though Neil.

For instance, none of us could not respect what Ginsoak has achieved, but do many respect him as a person?

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40468.msg1114185#msg1114185 date=1275819587]
Yeah, but there's a difference between respecting him and respecting what he achieved though Neil.

For instance, none of us could not respect what Ginsoak has achieved, but do many respect him as a person?
[/quote]

But I suppose there's more to it than that. Respecting his love for the club and the city and his commitment to LFC is something that isn't an achievement but that should be taken into account by his detractors.

 

[Judge Jules]

Agreed - witness his leaving statement. Funnily enough, despite defending him longer than most I never really warmed to Rafa the individual. Had he let himself be guided earlier and more often by the generosity of spirit he showed in those words, things could have turned out differently.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=40468.msg1114143#msg1114143 date=1275815307]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40468.msg1114142#msg1114142 date=1275815045]
Sort yourself out Rosco.


[/quote]

Look it's very simple.

Anyone who thinks Benitez couldn't possibly have won the league is wrong.


[/quote]

I think it's your complete lack of objectivity over this that people don't get. Yeah he could have won the league, but the progress that season in finishing 2nd was immense. If Spurs or Arsenal (for arguments sake) finished 2nd next season and just short of the title with their biggest ever points haul, would people be congratulating their progress or criticising whatever made them fall short?

It's like your posts yesterday regarding the two European Finals and how we could have fluffed both. Completely ignoring the fact that the same manager managed to get us there in the first place. And I tell you what, I bet it's a while before we get there again. So your completely biased viewpoint and hatred of Rafa makes debating the toss with you totally pointless, because you've only got one viewpoint, and it's tainted to fuck.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=40468.msg1114194#msg1114194 date=1275820031]
Agreed - witness his leaving statement. Funnily enough, despite defending him longer than most I never really warmed to Rafa the individual. Had he let himself be guided earlier and more often by the generosity of spirit he showed in those words, things could have turned out differently.
[/quote]

the statement was the mark of the man, short, sweet and only good words to say about the club.

 

[manwithnoname]

Poor the deranged ross, getting all angry and sweary and embarrassing

Seems to be cuntagious

 

[Terrier]

Who's this new, refined Brendan?

Where's the miserable, vindictive cunt we hate to love?

 

[manwithnoname]

I never called Houllier a cunt, and defended his achievements, the same will go for Benitez when clueless whoppers start calling him a 'cunt' and whatnot

 

[monsieurdantes]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40468.msg1114237#msg1114237 date=1275822577]
I never called Houllier a cunt, and defended his achievements, the same will go for Benitez when clueless whoppers start calling him a 'cunt' and whatnot


[/quote]

sometimes he was a cunt. sometimes he was great.

 

[Terrier]

I thought Benitez was a bit of a cunt whilst he was managing Liverpool FC.

But now he has nothing to do with us, I couldn't care less and revert to a neutral stance.

No point dragging all that hatred around eh.

 

[manwithnoname]

Well, OK, dantes, I suppose that's fair enough and sort of accurate