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Poll Stewart Downing vs Antonio Nunez

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Is Downing better than Nunez

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[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47276.msg1416224#msg1416224 date=1319446918]
[quote author=The_Rule link=topic=47276.msg1416218#msg1416218 date=1319446674]
I will avoid the troll in this thread. You know who you are. I will post something in General Chat soon. You can troll all you want there.


As for this discussion, we signed a fucking proven Premiership winger who just had the best season(by his standard) of his life as a footballer with Villa last season and because of that i expect more from him.


Someone blame the striker e.g Kuyt, Carroll and Suarez for not scoring the 'assist' which Downing provided? FUCKING WHAT??? Do you fucking know what assist is?? Bloody hell.


I am comparing him with Nunez as Nunez is the only player that i can think off suitable for the comparison.


And i forgot to mention, Nunez has a Champions League medal with us.
[/quote]

Of course people know what an assist is. But if the ball is put on a plate for a tap in or close range header it SHOULD have been converted. Bellamy, kuyt, henderson and others have all been wasteful from excellent crosses.

If our strikers can't convert simple chances then what the fuck is the point in lambasting the players who are DESIGNED to set up those players?
[/quote]


The problem IS he doesn't provide consistent crossing from the flanks. If you cross the ball consistently from the flanks i fucking bet out of 10 crosses at least 1 will be met by a goal. That is the main fucking problem. Enrique got 2 fucking assists. Because why? Because he is a good fullback. Why the fuck has Downing got no fucking assists when he started all the 9 games we play? Because he is an overrated, average fucking winger. That's why he is.


I dont understand this shit about blaming strikers not scoring goals when you know you have a fucking average winger who can't even beat players on the left flank let alone cross the ball to six yard box and the manager has to play a striker at his position(Bellamy). Looked how well Bellamy linked up with Enrique. Excellent.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47276.msg1416233#msg1416233 date=1319447621]
from downing point of view he must be thinking he has to give the attackers the ball with an open goal to aim at before he gets an assist. our finishing is fucking diabolical, the chances with fluffed this season isn't even funny anymore.
[/quote]Werent you one of the folks savaging me when I said this three games into the season!?
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47276.msg1416237#msg1416237 date=1319447731]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47276.msg1416233#msg1416233 date=1319447621]
from downing point of view he must be thinking he has to give the attackers the ball with an open goal to aim at before he gets an assist. our finishing is fucking diabolical, the chances with fluffed this season isn't even funny anymore.
[/quote]Werent you one of the folks savaging me when I said this three games into the season!?

[/quote]


I thought the finishing would improve, if anything it's getting worse. I didn't see the game live but having seen some of the missed chances, fucking HELL!!
 
[quote author=The_Rule link=topic=47276.msg1416235#msg1416235 date=1319447649]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47276.msg1416224#msg1416224 date=1319446918]
[quote author=The_Rule link=topic=47276.msg1416218#msg1416218 date=1319446674]
I will avoid the troll in this thread. You know who you are. I will post something in General Chat soon. You can troll all you want there.


As for this discussion, we signed a fucking proven Premiership winger who just had the best season(by his standard) of his life as a footballer with Villa last season and because of that i expect more from him.


Someone blame the striker e.g Kuyt, Carroll and Suarez for not scoring the 'assist' which Downing provided? FUCKING WHAT??? Do you fucking know what assist is?? Bloody hell.


I am comparing him with Nunez as Nunez is the only player that i can think off suitable for the comparison.


And i forgot to mention, Nunez has a Champions League medal with us.
[/quote]

Of course people know what an assist is. But if the ball is put on a plate for a tap in or close range header it SHOULD have been converted. Bellamy, kuyt, henderson and others have all been wasteful from excellent crosses.

If our strikers can't convert simple chances then what the fuck is the point in lambasting the players who are DESIGNED to set up those players?
[/quote]


The problem IS he doesn't provide consistent crossing from the flanks. If you cross the ball consistently from the flanks i fucking bet out of 10 crosses at least 1 will be met by a goal. That is the main fucking problem. Enrique got 2 fucking assists. Because why? Because he is a good fullback. Why the fuck has Downing got no fucking assists when he started all the 9 games we play? Because he is an overrated, average fucking winger. That's why he is.


I dont understand this shit about blaming strikers not scoring goals when you know you have a fucking average winger who can't even beat players on the left flank let alone cross the ball to six yard box and the manager has to play a striker at his position(Bellamy). Looked how well Bellamy linked up with Enrique. Excellent.
[/quote]

did you think they linked up well? I thought it wasn't a patch on downing and enriques link up. Enrique has got assists because he gets the space! Thats why i love fullbacks on the late overlap, the opposition can't mark them as they either leave the winger and risk the ball going to them, or they let the fullback march on.

And of COURSE you can blame strikers for not finishing. That is their fundamental job! If you're blaming downing for allegedly not whipping crosses in, you can't then not blame the strikers for not attacking the ball!
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=47276.msg1416166#msg1416166 date=1319441919]
Is this your worst ever thread Glock? Its up there with the "best" of them thats for sure. Can we do a follow up with Enriques goalscoring vs Steve Harkness?
[/quote]

To be fair you were one of the ones who defended massively overpaying for Downing on the basis that there was nobody else. Other people said that you could sign any other left footed winger quite cheaply and he'd do similarly to Downing - which is looking very true at the moment.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47276.msg1416268#msg1416268 date=1319449085]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=47276.msg1416166#msg1416166 date=1319441919]
Is this your worst ever thread Glock? Its up there with the "best" of them thats for sure. Can we do a follow up with Enriques goalscoring vs Steve Harkness?
[/quote]

To be fair you were one of the ones who defended massively overpaying for Downing on the basis that there was nobody else. Other people said that you could sign any other left footed winger quite cheaply and he'd do similarly to Downing - which is looking very true at the moment.
[/quote]

You see, at least you're saying - "The player who was very good at AVL last year may still make it here." It seems half the site has deemed that he'll never get better than we're currently seeing now ...
 
Stewart Downing isnt a rubbish footballer or anything.
When i think of him I imagine him in an immaculate old fashioned drawing room sat on a massive sofa in total silence. He is wearing a grey pair of trousers and a pale blue shirt with a grey cardigan over the top. On the table in front of him is a beautiful fine china teapot with steam rising from the spout. His mother is quietly knitting in the big chair in the corner and the only sound you can hear is a clock ticking on the wall and an occassional cough or sigh from stewart as he stares at the wall, now and again picking a piece of lint of his lap and flicking it onto the carpet.
'Game of Monopoly mum' he says looking over hopefully his eyes glassed over and distant.
'Im knitting' Comes the reply
Stewart sighs and the clock keeps ticking.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47276.msg1416285#msg1416285 date=1319449907]
ha ha - yah with old fashioned glasses too.
[/quote]I was gonna say that. On a string round his neck, a copy of the Davinci code open next to him.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47276.msg1416277#msg1416277 date=1319449391]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47276.msg1416268#msg1416268 date=1319449085]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=47276.msg1416166#msg1416166 date=1319441919]
Is this your worst ever thread Glock? Its up there with the "best" of them thats for sure. Can we do a follow up with Enriques goalscoring vs Steve Harkness?
[/quote]

To be fair you were one of the ones who defended massively overpaying for Downing on the basis that there was nobody else. Other people said that you could sign any other left footed winger quite cheaply and he'd do similarly to Downing - which is looking very true at the moment.
[/quote]

You see, at least you're saying - "The player who was very good at AVL last year may still make it here." It seems half the site has deemed that he'll never get better than we're currently seeing now ...
[/quote]

I don't think he will get any better, he is what he is. I think results will improve for him, simply when people start putting chances away but I don't expect anything to be different about Downing himself. Wingers generally don't get better with age and I think we've signed Downing a couple of years too late for this signing to be moderately successful.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47276.msg1416277#msg1416277 date=1319449391]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47276.msg1416268#msg1416268 date=1319449085]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=47276.msg1416166#msg1416166 date=1319441919]
Is this your worst ever thread Glock? Its up there with the "best" of them thats for sure. Can we do a follow up with Enriques goalscoring vs Steve Harkness?
[/quote]

To be fair you were one of the ones who defended massively overpaying for Downing on the basis that there was nobody else. Other people said that you could sign any other left footed winger quite cheaply and he'd do similarly to Downing - which is looking very true at the moment.
[/quote]

You see, at least you're saying - "The player who was very good at AVL last year may still make it here." It seems half the site has deemed that he'll never get better than we're currently seeing now ...
[/quote]

I think it's more the realisation that we well overpaid for him.

I have no particular issues with him as a footballer, and I don't even think he's been particularly terrible. What he's brought to the team is what I predicted he would bring. A fairly intelligent but limited (in talent) footballer out on the flank, who offers good balance to the side, but nothing extraordinary by way of creativity or end product.

I certainly wouldn't have ever minded had we bought him for 8 million. You can argue saying that one should judge him only from the impact he has and not what he cost, but I think it's rather difficult to divorce the two. Unless of course the fee can be justified over a larger span of time (which Downing won't have since he's 27 - and probably has only 3-4 good years left in him).

As for what will bring out the best in him, I don't think it's right to say that playing Carroll will yield the best results. A lot of people seem to suggest that that's simple logic or 'going back to the basics'. IMO that's overly simplistic and almost primitive.

That's not the kind of football we're accustomed to playing nor is it the kind of football we should be trying to play.

Neither Downing or Carroll are the kind of footballers we should have bought, and indeed, if they are to succeed, they'll succeed by adapting to the kind of football we should be playing, rather than the entire team trying to adapt to the kind of football that might seemingly suit them.

I think ILD got it spot on when he said that Kenny's actually jumbling up both these ideas together, and it's not helping anyone.
 
I was thinking the other day about the relationship between glock posting on here and the team underperforming..

I'd like to conduct an experiment in the name of science whereby glock is banned.

There aren't many variables so it should be a fair experiment
 
We got ONE cross into Carroll in stoppage time on Saturday and he was a gnats hair away from scoring it out of nothing.
Thats the principle of spending 35m on a beast in the air and 20m on a winger with a good cross.
The time action study is surely a very simple one.
Play both. Or Neither.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47276.msg1416180#msg1416180 date=1319443884]
The thing about Downing that grates me the most (and there's competition for that accolade trust me) is not who he is, but who he should be.

i.e. Juan Mata. Or somebody fucking quality who'd have fit into our system. Watching David Silva play makes me weep out my eyes and cock he's that fucking brilliant. He should be playing for us.

Instead we got simple Stewart. Who was bought not because he was Spanish and sex on a football but because we needed somebody to run down the wing and corss the ball onto Big Dunc's head. Which he hasn't done yet. Because he's not that good, and because that type of football isn't for us, but for fucking Ireland under Jack Charlton or something.

It's who he should have been.
[/quote]

Totally, totally, totally, totally, totally agree.

i'm not having this bollocks about us being unable to get anyone better. because it's total fucking bollocks.

indeed, i'm pretty sure we might even have got mata himself if we'd made the move quickly in the summer; no hard evidence i know, but all the noises in the media were that he'd definitely consider a move to us.

and then there's silva, yet another on that list of world class players we could well have playing for us if rafa had the sort of money to spend that kenny's just enjoyed.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47276.msg1416317#msg1416317 date=1319452051]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47276.msg1416180#msg1416180 date=1319443884]
The thing about Downing that grates me the most (and there's competition for that accolade trust me) is not who he is, but who he should be.

i.e. Juan Mata. Or somebody fucking quality who'd have fit into our system. Watching David Silva play makes me weep out my eyes and cock he's that fucking brilliant. He should be playing for us.

Instead we got simple Stewart. Who was bought not because he was Spanish and sex on a football but because we needed somebody to run down the wing and corss the ball onto Big Dunc's head. Which he hasn't done yet. Because he's not that good, and because that type of football isn't for us, but for fucking Ireland under Jack Charlton or something.

It's who he should have been.
[/quote]

Totally, totally, totally, totally, totally agree.

i'm not having this bollocks about us being unable to get anyone better. because it's total fucking bollocks.

indeed, i'm pretty sure we might even have got mata himself if we'd made the move quickly in the summer; no hard evidence i know, but all the noises in the media were that he'd definitely consider a move to us.

and then there's silva, yet another on that list of world class players we could well have playing for us if rafa had the sort of money to spend that kenny's just enjoyed.
[/quote]I was thinking about you yesterday when City won.
The players who won them the game
Balotelli
Dzeko
Silva
Milner
Aguero
Rafa wanted all of them bar Balotelli and was denied them for one reason and another.
Gutted.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47276.msg1416317#msg1416317 date=1319452051]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47276.msg1416180#msg1416180 date=1319443884]
The thing about Downing that grates me the most (and there's competition for that accolade trust me) is not who he is, but who he should be.

i.e. Juan Mata. Or somebody fucking quality who'd have fit into our system. Watching David Silva play makes me weep out my eyes and cock he's that fucking brilliant. He should be playing for us.

Instead we got simple Stewart. Who was bought not because he was Spanish and sex on a football but because we needed somebody to run down the wing and corss the ball onto Big Dunc's head. Which he hasn't done yet. Because he's not that good, and because that type of football isn't for us, but for fucking Ireland under Jack Charlton or something.

It's who he should have been.
[/quote]

Totally, totally, totally, totally, totally agree.

i'm not having this bollocks about us being unable to get anyone better. because it's total fucking bollocks.

indeed, i'm pretty sure we might even have got mata himself if we'd made the move quickly in the summer; no hard evidence i know, but all the noises in the media were that he'd definitely consider a move to us.

and then there's silva, yet another on that list of world class players we could well have playing for us if rafa had the sort of money to spend that kenny's just enjoyed.
[/quote]

Peter - there was plenty of strong insider information that says we had made extremely strong move for him earlier in the window and HE said no in the end. As did Young.

Wrt Silva, perhaps Rafa should have used that 20 mill (Keane), 18 mill (Aquilani) or 18 mill (Johnson) he wasted? Maybe instead of Beller and Pennant, Alves? etc etc ... Coulda, shoulda, woulda.


Andy - we wanted Aguero? Is there hard evidence for this? Dzeko was last year only, right?
 
Every manager doesn't get the players he wants, most managers find a way to work around it rather than spend years fucking moaning about it. And then having their witless fans repeating ad nausem that if he had this / that he would have done this / that.

Rafa is just like 97% of football managers. Shite.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47276.msg1416326#msg1416326 date=1319452589]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47276.msg1416317#msg1416317 date=1319452051]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47276.msg1416180#msg1416180 date=1319443884]
The thing about Downing that grates me the most (and there's competition for that accolade trust me) is not who he is, but who he should be.

i.e. Juan Mata. Or somebody fucking quality who'd have fit into our system. Watching David Silva play makes me weep out my eyes and cock he's that fucking brilliant. He should be playing for us.

Instead we got simple Stewart. Who was bought not because he was Spanish and sex on a football but because we needed somebody to run down the wing and corss the ball onto Big Dunc's head. Which he hasn't done yet. Because he's not that good, and because that type of football isn't for us, but for fucking Ireland under Jack Charlton or something.

It's who he should have been.
[/quote]

Totally, totally, totally, totally, totally agree.

i'm not having this bollocks about us being unable to get anyone better. because it's total fucking bollocks.

indeed, i'm pretty sure we might even have got mata himself if we'd made the move quickly in the summer; no hard evidence i know, but all the noises in the media were that he'd definitely consider a move to us.

and then there's silva, yet another on that list of world class players we could well have playing for us if rafa had the sort of money to spend that kenny's just enjoyed.
[/quote]I was thinking about you yesterday when City won.
The players who won them the game
Balotelli
Dzeko
Silva
Milner
Aguero
Rafa wanted all of them bar Balotelli and was denied them for one reason and another.
Gutted.
[/quote]

ha, thinking of me! that's sweet!

LTW: mata i'm not sure about. personally i think we had a chance there but preferred downing. but obv that's just a hunch. what's not a hunch, though, is that diego capel went to Sp Lisbon for about £3m this summer; is he REALLY £17m worse than downing?

as for rafa - i'd never deny he made laughablly bad signings on occasion, but it's pretty much fact that it was down to a simple case of a couple of million here and there that we missed out on alves, simao, malouda, pato, and jovetic at various times, so with proper backing at least some of those would've happened even after wasting money on keane and aquilani.
 
peter - there was pretty solid inside info (not from me, I don't know anyone directly - but people on the site who have very good sources) that we were very close to signing mata ... he pulled out at the end, not us.

capel is a decent player - i guess him for 3 million would have been a better short term investment.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47276.msg1416340#msg1416340 date=1319453525]
peter - there was pretty solid inside info (not from me, I don't know anyone directly - but people on the site who have very good sources) that we were very close to signing mata ... he pulled out at the end, not us.

capel is a decent player - i guess him for 3 million would have been a better short term investment.
[/quote]
Not sure about that, solid info mostly all seem to come from Paul on twitter and he also seem to go on a lot about Aguero.
Not saying Mata would have come but it seemed pretty clear Downing was a primary target from the off and we went for him big time.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47276.msg1416337#msg1416337 date=1319453151]
Every manager doesn't get the players he wants, most managers find a way to work around it rather than spend years fucking moaning about it. And then having their witless fans repeating ad nausem that if he had this / that he would have done this / that.

Rafa is just like 97% of football managers. Shite.
[/quote]

it's ironic (or wildly inconsistent?) that you take such a jaundiced view of football managers as a whole (eg quoting warren buffet's comment on 'naked' investors) and yet are so particularly scathing about Benitez and his impact on the club (presumably relative to other clubs' managers). if the role of manager is so overrated in its importance, and most managers so overrated in ability, why identify Benitez as such a problem in the first place, remediable with a different cypher?
 
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=47276.msg1416300#msg1416300 date=1319450689]
I was thinking the other day about the relationship between glock posting on here and the team underperforming..

I'd like to conduct an experiment in the name of science whereby glock is banned.

There aren't many variables so it should be a fair experiment
[/quote]

Month by month, millimetre by millimetre, we grow closer together.
 
[quote author=rubans link=topic=47276.msg1416342#msg1416342 date=1319453702]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47276.msg1416340#msg1416340 date=1319453525]
peter - there was pretty solid inside info (not from me, I don't know anyone directly - but people on the site who have very good sources) that we were very close to signing mata ... he pulled out at the end, not us.

capel is a decent player - i guess him for 3 million would have been a better short term investment.
[/quote]
Not sure about that, solid info mostly all seem to come from Paul on twitter and he also seem to go on a lot about Aguero.
Not saying Mata would have come but it seemed pretty clear Downing was a primary target from the off and we went for him big time.
[/quote]

This has nothing to do with Paul, or twitter. Twitter sources are fun to keep busy, this actually got those who were told excited (though I didn't believe he'd settle this quick tbh)
 
How quickly ye forget! Nunez was a terrible player. Downing is a fairly decent player. hes not worth 18 million but who cares about that anymore.
 
I hope we try this at some point...

.......Stevie or Lucas.............Adam or Lucas......
...................Stevie or Henderson...................
Suarez.............................................Downing
........................Carroll.........................


I think that has potential. I don't think Suarez needs to play on the shoulder of the last defender to be a goal threat. He is creative enough to be just as effective from wide-right or left. If that was Torres instead of Carroll right there, that line up will in fact be quite the deadly one.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47276.msg1416337#msg1416337 date=1319453151]
Every manager doesn't get the players he wants, most managers find a way to work around it rather than spend years fucking moaning about it. And then having their witless fans repeating ad nausem that if he had this / that he would have done this / that.

Rafa is just like 97% of football managers. Shite.


[/quote]


Very straight to the point and spot on.


Fucking moaning about not signing this player, that player don't want to join us blah blah blah and yet we fucking go out there and spent 55 fucking mil on two average players. Fucking sad isn't it? All because if i'm not wrong is just to fulfill the English quota.


I wish the club and Kenny especially do less mistake in the transfer market and sign a quality player in the next window.
 
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=47276.msg1416392#msg1416392 date=1319461439]
How quickly ye forget! Nunez was a terrible player. Downing is a fairly decent player. hes not worth 18 million but who cares about that anymore.
[/quote]


Yup people like you accept mediocre result, mediocre players and yeah who fucking cares anyway. We are Liverpool right? We accept mediocre players and yup accept it like it is. In fact just fucking sit there at home and eat your fucking chips and enjoy.
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=47276.msg1416414#msg1416414 date=1319463345]
I hope we try this at some point...

.......Stevie or Lucas.............Adam or Lucas......
...................Stevie or Henderson...................
Suarez.............................................Downing
........................Carroll.........................


I think that has potential. I don't think Suarez needs to play on the shoulder of the last defender to be a goal threat. He is creative enough to be just as effective from wide-right or left. If that was Torres instead of Carroll right there, that line up will in fact be quite the deadly one.
[/quote]


We've played that formation with Carroll up front and Suarez just behind him a few games into the season and all i see was an ineffective Carroll lumbering around the pitch heading back Carra's long ball trying to find Suarez and whenever Suarez gets the ball he pass it to Carroll only for Carroll to run like a mad dog chasing it. Yeah we should try that formation. Bloody hell.
 
[quote author=The_Rule link=topic=47276.msg1416430#msg1416430 date=1319465073]
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=47276.msg1416392#msg1416392 date=1319461439]
How quickly ye forget! Nunez was a terrible player. Downing is a fairly decent player. hes not worth 18 million but who cares about that anymore.
[/quote]


Yup people like you accept mediocre result, mediocre players and yeah who fucking cares anyway. We are Liverpool right? We accept mediocre players and yup accept it like it is. In fact just fucking sit there at home and eat your fucking chips and enjoy.
[/quote]
Whats this really about? Did Stewart downing take your chips?
 
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