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Stevie G

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[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44445.msg1296846#msg1296846 date=1299531516]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296845#msg1296845 date=1299531186]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44445.msg1296843#msg1296843 date=1299531065]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296839#msg1296839 date=1299530812]
He's had bad games, like anybody else, at times on and off his whole career.

Most of them when played as a striker.
[/quote]

That's mental RH, no offence. He's had most of his bad games when played off the striker (and when has he played AS a striker?)? Are you having a laugh? His record when he played off Torres was exceptional, the only thing that's hampered his game in the last 18 months is injuries that disrupted his partnership with Fernando and his last two games when returning from injury.
[/quote]

Second striker is a striker; that's what I mean by striker.

And yes, there was a very good stretch - true, but before the good stretch there was a long time where it wasn't working and we've seen plenty of it after too; that's what I mean by "most of them".
[/quote]

I still don't agree or see where you're coming from at all, his goals and assists counts upped when he moved from central midfield. Some people think he should be in there pulling the strings, fair enough, hardly surprising given our only other options are Lucas and Poulsen, but that doesn't make him better there.

Maybe earlier in his career it was good to see him play there, but he was more dynamic then and the team operated more or less around him, we had a work-hard midfield which gave him the licence to roam without much sacrifice on us defensively, but the game is different now, the team is different and he's older. And as I said, statistically speaking his goals and assists tallies were better when more advanced anyway. I'm not saying he can't play there, but saying he's 'better' there to the extent where you think he's had most of his shit games when playing (and as a result of playing) as a striker is well wide of the mark.
[/quote]

You make it sound like he played in CM for a couple of years and then since then he's been mostly a second striker with loads of success. He's mostly played in CM in his career, played at second striker quite a lot over the last three years, with ONE year where it was a big success and two where it really wasn't that much to write home about at best and a lot worst than that at worst.

Anyway... whatever - I'm just grateful Kenny isn't playing him there. I had faith he wouldn't and he's put him back in midfield with great success in general so far as far as I'm concerned.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44445.msg1296842#msg1296842 date=1299531060] But it wasn't his performance (hell, even overly his contribution) that won us the game. most (if not all) the squad was better than him.
[/quote]

Offensive Player Pass Completion %

Luis Suarez: 29/45 – 64.4%
Dirk Kuyt: 33/45 – 73.3%
Lucas Leiva:47/56 – 84%
Maxi Rodriguez: 27/34 – 79.4%
Steven Gerrard: 42/56 – 80.4%
Glen Johnson: 29/32 – 90.6%
Raul Meireles: 21/39 – 53.8%

42/56 isn't bad when you're the link between the DM and the attacking players.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296849#msg1296849 date=1299532123]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44445.msg1296842#msg1296842 date=1299531060] But it wasn't his performance (hell, even overly his contribution) that won us the game. most (if not all) the squad was better than him.
[/quote]

Offensive Player Pass Completion %

Luis Suarez: 29/45 – 64.4%
Dirk Kuyt: 33/45 – 73.3%
Lucas Leiva:47/56 – 84%
Maxi Rodriguez: 27/34 – 79.4%
Steven Gerrard: 42/56 – 80.4%
Glen Johnson: 29/32 – 90.6%
Raul Meireles: 21/39 – 53.8%

42/56 isn't bad when you're the link between the DM and the attacking players.
[/quote]

so was he better than mereiles? he MUST be better than suarez.

don't quite know what you're showing me here...
 
Obviously pass completion is harder for Suarez and Meireles as they were higher up the pitch trying to beat the defenders.

But anyway it shows that Gerrard kept up a good passing standard and made quite a lot of passes.

I'm saying that you seem to think he played badly, but I think it's more to do with where he was on the pitch, and which part of the play he was involved with rather than his actual performance.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296854#msg1296854 date=1299532626]
Obviously pass completion is harder for Suarez and Meireles as they were higher up the pitch trying to beat the defenders.

But anyway it shows that Gerrard kept up a good passing standard and made quite a lot of passes.

I'm saying that you seem to think he played badly, but I think it's more to do with where he was on the pitch, and which part of the play he was involved with rather than his actual performance.
[/quote]

oh. He was also in our half quite a lot so passing forwards would be a given. not many of his balls were particularly incisive though where they?
 
Gerrard didn't have his greatest game but he is carrying a groin problem at the moment and he did adequately well. He wasn't shite by any means. People need to take that injury into account. The lads playing through a bit of pain and discomfort. A lot of pople have said that he's had a relatively poor season but consider this - he's still top of the MOTM league run by Morse. I think people expect a world class performance every game but we all have an off day at the office. Anyway, fuck it, he captained our team to a great and convincing result against the league leaders.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44445.msg1296855#msg1296855 date=1299532795]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296854#msg1296854 date=1299532626]
Obviously pass completion is harder for Suarez and Meireles as they were higher up the pitch trying to beat the defenders.

But anyway it shows that Gerrard kept up a good passing standard and made quite a lot of passes.

I'm saying that you seem to think he played badly, but I think it's more to do with where he was on the pitch, and which part of the play he was involved with rather than his actual performance.
[/quote]

oh. He was also in our half quite a lot so passing forwards would be a given. not many of his balls were particularly incisive though where they?
[/quote]

He didn't put anyone through on goal I don't think, no. It's not something I'm massively bothered about though. Obviously I want him to do it sometimes, but just because he didn't yesterday and other people did instead doesn't mean he was shit.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=44445.msg1296856#msg1296856 date=1299532851]
Gerrard didn't have his greatest game but he is carrying a groin problem at the moment and he did adequately well. He wasn't shite by any means. People need to take that injury into account. The lads playing through a bit of pain and discomfort. A lot of pople have said that he's had a relatively poor season but consider this - he's still top of the MOTM league run by Morse. I think people expect a world class performance every game but we all have an off day at the office. Anyway, fuck it, he captained our team to a great and convincing result against the league leaders.
[/quote]

i know he's carrying an injury though. i get that. My problem (now) is that i seemingly can't say he had a poor game and hardly made an impact. which isn't wrong. i can accept his shite performance due to the injury. i'm just saying he was poor.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=44445.msg1296852#msg1296852 date=1299532504]
That Lucas is our best passer in midfield. Apparently.
[/quote]

You don't want to see his defensive stats.

For someone playing as the holding midfielder 1/10 is extremely fucking bad.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296858#msg1296858 date=1299532973]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44445.msg1296855#msg1296855 date=1299532795]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296854#msg1296854 date=1299532626]
Obviously pass completion is harder for Suarez and Meireles as they were higher up the pitch trying to beat the defenders.

But anyway it shows that Gerrard kept up a good passing standard and made quite a lot of passes.

I'm saying that you seem to think he played badly, but I think it's more to do with where he was on the pitch, and which part of the play he was involved with rather than his actual performance.
[/quote]

oh. He was also in our half quite a lot so passing forwards would be a given. not many of his balls were particularly incisive though where they?
[/quote]

He didn't put anyone through on goal I don't think, no. It's not something I'm massively bothered about though. Obviously I want him to do it sometimes, but just because he didn't yesterday and other people did instead doesn't mean he was shit.
[/quote]

.....he didn't impact the game offensively or defensively. he was our worst player. he was anonymous besides a brief cameo at the end.
i'm not going through this again.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44445.msg1296862#msg1296862 date=1299533209]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296858#msg1296858 date=1299532973]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44445.msg1296855#msg1296855 date=1299532795]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296854#msg1296854 date=1299532626]
Obviously pass completion is harder for Suarez and Meireles as they were higher up the pitch trying to beat the defenders.

But anyway it shows that Gerrard kept up a good passing standard and made quite a lot of passes.

I'm saying that you seem to think he played badly, but I think it's more to do with where he was on the pitch, and which part of the play he was involved with rather than his actual performance.
[/quote]

oh. He was also in our half quite a lot so passing forwards would be a given. not many of his balls were particularly incisive though where they?
[/quote]

He didn't put anyone through on goal I don't think, no. It's not something I'm massively bothered about though. Obviously I want him to do it sometimes, but just because he didn't yesterday and other people did instead doesn't mean he was shit.
[/quote]

.....he didn't impact the game offensively or defensively. he was our worst player. he was anonymous besides a brief cameo at the end.
i'm not going through this again.
[/quote]

OUR WORST PLAYER?!?!?!?

You're absolutely bonkers. Maxi and Lucas hardly made a tackle between them and neither of them had a shot at goal, never mind two decent efforts from range, so how, HOW??!? can Gerrard have been our worst player?

Honest to fuck.
 
lucas harried and harrassed, made runs forward and played some lovely balls forward.


maxi i agree did very little so you have a point there.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296860#msg1296860 date=1299533108]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=44445.msg1296852#msg1296852 date=1299532504]
That Lucas is our best passer in midfield. Apparently.
[/quote]

You don't want to see his defensive stats.

For someone playing as the holding midfielder 1/10 is extremely fucking bad.
[/quote]

By this I mean tackles made.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=44445.msg1296852#msg1296852 date=1299532504]
That Lucas is our best passer in midfield. Apparently.
[/quote]

He is. Consistently.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44445.msg1296878#msg1296878 date=1299534145]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=44445.msg1296852#msg1296852 date=1299532504]
That Lucas is our best passer in midfield. Apparently.
[/quote]

He is. Consistently.
[/quote]

can't argue with stats. recently though he's made those passes count more which is what i've been impressed with.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44445.msg1296874#msg1296874 date=1299533623]
lucas harried and harrassed, made runs forward and played some lovely balls forward.


maxi i agree did very little so you have a point there.
[/quote]

Obviously the stars of the show were the front three, but the fact that they were means you have to give some credit to the middle three. Although Maxi was a complete passenger, so he doesn't really deserve much credit. And Lucas only attempted ten tackles, making one, so whilst deserving credit for being involved in build up play, left all the defending in midfield to Gerrard, who was similarly involved in the build up play.

Anyway, obviously this is tired, so it should stop, but I can't help feel convinced that your attitude towards Gerrard isn't because of the facts of his performance, but more because you don't like to see him playing so deep, whether you know it or not.

The facts show he was more important overall than either Maxi or Lucas, who I think it's fairly obvious will be replaced with better players in time.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44445.msg1296878#msg1296878 date=1299534145]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=44445.msg1296852#msg1296852 date=1299532504]
That Lucas is our best passer in midfield. Apparently.
[/quote]



He is. Consistently.
[/quote]

Lucas isn't my favourite player and i'm far from convinced over his defensive abilities, especially away from Anfield. But i'll give him his dues. He has proven to be the best SHORT passer in our team this year. And it's no longer alway sideways. He's played some fantastic weighted forward balls. It's the only thing he's impressed me with.

If only he could tackle, perhaps shoot (and not be brushed off the ball like a kid), he could make for a good deep-lying playmaking defensive midfielder. And he might have a real future at Anfield.
 
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=44445.msg1296892#msg1296892 date=1299535947]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44445.msg1296878#msg1296878 date=1299534145]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=44445.msg1296852#msg1296852 date=1299532504]
That Lucas is our best passer in midfield. Apparently.
[/quote]



He is. Consistently.
[/quote]

Lucas isn't my favourite player and i'm far from convinced over his defensive abilities, especially away from Anfield. But i'll give him his dues. He has proven to be the best SHORT passer in our team this year. And it's no longer alway sideways. He's played some fantastic weighted forward balls. It's the only thing he's impressed me with.

If only he could tackle, perhaps shoot (and not be brushed off the ball like a kid), he could make for a good deep-lying playmaking defensive midfielder. And he might have a real future at Anfield.
[/quote]

Yep - agreed.
 
But obviously that isn't going to happen, is it?

We'll sign a decent DM in the summer and Lucas will probably end up a squad player.
 
Re: Re: Stevie G

lucas harried and harrassed, made runs forward and played some lovely balls forward.


maxi i agree did very little so you have a point there.
Click to expand...
Obviously the stars of the show were the front three, but the fact that they were means you have to give some credit to the middle three. Although Maxi was a complete passenger, so he doesn't really deserve much credit. And Lucas only attempted ten tackles, making one, so whilst deserving credit for being involved in build up play, left all the defending in midfield to Gerrard, who was similarly involved in the build up play.

Anyway, obviously this is tired, so it should stop, but I can't help feel convinced that your attitude towards Gerrard isn't because of the facts of his performance, but more because you don't like to see him playing so deep, whether you know it or not.

The facts show he was more important overall than either Maxi or Lucas, who I think it's fairly obvious will be replaced with better players in time.
Click to expand...

I like gerrard in the middle. He just seemed like a passenger all game. And you've shown me no facts with regards to this game, other than offensive passing stats, which I would expect to see anyway.

But I'm happy to leave it anyway.

But I'm happy to leave it there
 
Tackles:
Steven Gerrard: 5/9 – 55.6%
Lucas Leiva:1/10 – 10%
Maxi Rodriguez: 2/5 – 20%
Luis Suarez: 10/12 – 83.3%
Glen Johnson: 5/8 – 62.5%
Martin Skrtel: 1/2 – 50%
Dirk Kuyt: 4/13 – 30.8%
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296894#msg1296894 date=1299536269]
But obviously that isn't going to happen, is it?

We'll sign a decent DM in the summer and Lucas will probably end up a squad player.
[/quote]

Yep. I can't see that improvement coming (in his tackling).

We'll likely get a competent DM and he'll be rotated with Meireles and Gerrard (and hopefully Adam). Probably still get a decent amount of game time though.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296896#msg1296896 date=1299536627]
Tackles:
Steven Gerrard: 5/9 – 55.6%
Lucas Leiva:1/10 – 10%
Maxi Rodriguez: 2/5 – 20%
Luis Suarez: 10/12 – 83.3%
Glen Johnson: 5/8 – 62.5%
Martin Skrtel: 1/2 – 50%
Dirk Kuyt: 4/13 – 30.8%
[/quote]

Suarez was magnificient all round!
 
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=44445.msg1296898#msg1296898 date=1299536685]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296896#msg1296896 date=1299536627]
Tackles:
Steven Gerrard: 5/9 – 55.6%
Lucas Leiva:1/10 – 10%
Maxi Rodriguez: 2/5 – 20%
Luis Suarez: 10/12 – 83.3%
Glen Johnson: 5/8 – 62.5%
Martin Skrtel: 1/2 – 50%
Dirk Kuyt: 4/13 – 30.8%
[/quote]

Suarez was magnificient all round!
[/quote]

Yes.
 
Robin is on the money in this thread for me.

And passing percentage isn't a stat you should judge a players value on because it has little correlation with winning. Passing in the final third is what's important, and Lucas doesn't ever fare too well in that category. Gerrard didn't do too well in it yesterday either.
 
He can tackle TBF. He can't go in full blooded & when he tries he gives away free kicks, but tackles where he stays on his feet to take the ball.
 
I'd prioritize a passing, tempo-dictating central midfielder way ahead of a defensive one.

Our team needs an Alonso more than anything.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44445.msg1296980#msg1296980 date=1299574328]
I'd prioritize a passing, tempo-dictating central midfielder way ahead of a defensive one.

Our team needs an Alonso more than anything.
[/quote]

OK, so say we get Charlie Adam in the summer (unless Ferige buys him just to spite us). Suppose he does become our new "Alonso", a passing, tempo-dictating CM and an automatic starter. Where would that leave Gerrard, assuming that we need a specialist DM in the team and Meireles is almost undroppable?
 
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