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Stevie G

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this was brought up the other week this thing about carrick and half the forum shouted down anyone who said carrick was overrated and over priced. something about because they won the league for a couple of seasons after they bought him


because it was entirely down to Michael carrick
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44445.msg1296372#msg1296372 date=1299488257]
this was brought up the other week this thing about carrick and half the forum shouted down anyone who said carrick was overrated and over priced. something about because they won the league for a couple of seasons after they bought him


because it was entirely down to Michael carrick
[/quote]

Haha...unbelievable. Its like saying Djimi Traore has a Champions League medal so he's class!
Carricks the biggest bluffer in the league by some distance!!
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44445.msg1296412#msg1296412 date=1299493605]
personally I think the sooner we start winning games without having to be carried by gerrard, the better.
[/quote]

You're not the only one thinking that, Spidey.
 
Stevie is not gonna be as dynamic as he was before. Injuries and age will take its toll so his role will change in the team. Still while he is able to do it, I'd have him in the team.

We've beat the Scum and Chavs without him before so while the team revolves around him, we still do the business without him too. That's encouraging.
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=44445.msg1295764#msg1295764 date=1299427574]
Did we see him play in his new long term position under Kenny today, or was it just because he was carrying a knock?

I've thought for sometime now that he could do a great in this role + extend his career by a few years at the same time.
[/quote]

In midfield? Where he belongs?

Great news.

It was nice to see him managing play from deeper and surging forward when he felt like it. Could easily have scored two on another day.

I think Kenneth knows where we can use him best.
 
i thought he let lucas do a lot of the running, which is fine by me. lucas bombed forward a few times throughout the entire game, gerrard seemed to more near the end.
 
In central midfield stevie g started of really settling in as a dm - I think the circle will be complete with him reverting back to a dm (maybe in the makelele role) and I think he will be a success. I am actually quite excited seeing him revert to this role which I think he can do for several years.
 
Is it just me or does some here praise Gerrard even when he's anonymous in games.
I was quite surprised to see his name repeatedly listed in the MOM-thread.

I think Gerrard was poor yesterday. Maybe I'm expecting too much from him.
Maybe I should look at what he did do and not what he didn't. Maybe...(cue Lebron).
 
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=44445.msg1296809#msg1296809 date=1299529429]
In central midfield stevie g started of really settling in as a dm - I think the circle will be complete with him reverting back to a dm (maybe in the makelele role) and I think he will be a success. I am actually quite excited seeing him revert to this role which I think he can do for several years.
[/quote]

hope so, but he didn't put it loads of tackles yesterday. He seemed to be waiting for the whistle imo
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44445.msg1296813#msg1296813 date=1299529738]
Is it just me or does some here praise Gerrard even when he's anonymous in games.
I was quite surprised to see his name repeatedly listed in the MOM-thread.

I think Gerrard was poor yesterday. Maybe I'm expecting too much from him.
Maybe I should look at what he did do and not what he didn't. Maybe...(cue Lebron).
[/quote]

i've said a few times he was shite yesterday and i stand by that. he didn't do anything. lucas was the defensive cover and raul was the offensive mid. gerrard didn't really do anything
 
I wouldn't say he's currently playing as a DM. Lucas is doing that.

Anyway, I don't think we're playing 4231 anymore so I guess I can see why there's a difference of opinion.

When I thought we were playing 4231 everyone else said we were playing 442. I was right though, just for the record, and when it finally became "established" that we were playing 4231 (near enough the end under Rafa) it stuck and now it's hard for people to let go of.

I'm pretty sure Kenny's after playing one up top with two in behind; sometimes it's 433 or 523.

---------Kuyt
Suarez------Meireles
----Maxi Gerrard
---------Lucas
etc
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44445.msg1296815#msg1296815 date=1299529800]
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=44445.msg1296809#msg1296809 date=1299529429]
In central midfield stevie g started of really settling in as a dm - I think the circle will be complete with him reverting back to a dm (maybe in the makelele role) and I think he will be a success. I am actually quite excited seeing him revert to this role which I think he can do for several years.
[/quote]

hope so, but he didn't put it loads of tackles yesterday. He seemed to be waiting for the whistle imo
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44445.msg1296813#msg1296813 date=1299529738]
Is it just me or does some here praise Gerrard even when he's anonymous in games.
I was quite surprised to see his name repeatedly listed in the MOM-thread.

I think Gerrard was poor yesterday. Maybe I'm expecting too much from him.
Maybe I should look at what he did do and not what he didn't. Maybe...(cue Lebron).
[/quote]

i've said a few times he was shite yesterday and i stand by that. he didn't do anything. lucas was the defensive cover and raul was the offensive mid. gerrard didn't really do anything
[/quote]
Except his attempts at goal late in the game. That's about all I remember from his performance yesterday.
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44445.msg1296819#msg1296819 date=1299529899]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44445.msg1296815#msg1296815 date=1299529800]
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=44445.msg1296809#msg1296809 date=1299529429]
In central midfield stevie g started of really settling in as a dm - I think the circle will be complete with him reverting back to a dm (maybe in the makelele role) and I think he will be a success. I am actually quite excited seeing him revert to this role which I think he can do for several years.
[/quote]

hope so, but he didn't put it loads of tackles yesterday. He seemed to be waiting for the whistle imo
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44445.msg1296813#msg1296813 date=1299529738]
Is it just me or does some here praise Gerrard even when he's anonymous in games.
I was quite surprised to see his name repeatedly listed in the MOM-thread.

I think Gerrard was poor yesterday. Maybe I'm expecting too much from him.
Maybe I should look at what he did do and not what he didn't. Maybe...(cue Lebron).
[/quote]

i've said a few times he was shite yesterday and i stand by that. he didn't do anything. lucas was the defensive cover and raul was the offensive mid. gerrard didn't really do anything
[/quote]
Except his attempts at goal late in the game. That's about all I remember from his performance yesterday.
[/quote]

yeah that was all he did. tried a couple of cross field passes too but overall very underwhelming.
 
You want the moon on a stick.

I'm quite glad we won 3-1 and Gerrard nearly scored on a couple of occasions.

He shouldn't have to bust a lung every single game. He's carried this club for a very long time - give him a break for fuck's sake.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296824#msg1296824 date=1299530144]
You want the moon on a stick.

I'm quite glad we won 3-1 and Gerrard nearly scored on a couple of occasions.

He shouldn't have to bust a lung every single game. He's carried this club for a very long time - give him a break for fuck's sake.
[/quote]

so i should let him slide for this off day? why?
he's given us years of great service. and?
i understand he won't be amazing every game, but i'm not allowed to mention it because he's untouchable? 2 games he's been poor on the trot. if it's fitness then fine. i expect it to be. however his whole demeanour and has been poor. if it was fitness he'd still be trying, and against utd and west ham i can't say he was
 
He wasn't poor, he was just playing deeper.

He nearly scored twice. If one of those had gone in you wouldn't be giving him shit.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296824#msg1296824 date=1299530144]
You want the moon on a stick.

I'm quite glad we won 3-1 and Gerrard nearly scored on a couple of occasions.

He shouldn't have to bust a lung every single game. He's carried this club for a very long time - give him a break for fuck's sake.
[/quote]

It's not like I'm saying that he should be sacked for having an off day but I, no we, should expect more especially since it's a "big" game.
I wonder if he's holding back because of his groin injury.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296828#msg1296828 date=1299530426]
He wasn't poor, he was just playing deeper.

He nearly scored twice. If one of those had gone in you wouldn't be giving him shit.
[/quote]

a goal doesn't make a performance. i'd happily praise him for the goal but it was still a lacklustre performance by his own magnificent standards. it was certainly in his worst 5 performances in recent years.
 
If he'd scored from range there'd be people saying Kenny had restored the old Gerrard.

And he will score from range soon and people will say that.
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44445.msg1296813#msg1296813 date=1299529738]
Is it just me or does some here praise Gerrard even when he's anonymous in games.
I was quite surprised to see his name repeatedly listed in the MOM-thread.

I think Gerrard was poor yesterday. Maybe I'm expecting too much from him.
Maybe I should look at what he did do and not what he didn't. Maybe...(cue Lebron).
[/quote]

It's not just you, it was the same against the Hammers too, but he is coming back from injury, so... He had a late flurry where he had two cracking shots, but that was about it. It's a bit of a poser though deciding who plays where between him and Ming, because Ming is doing a great job, even though he's no Stevie G.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296834#msg1296834 date=1299530583]
If he'd scored from range there'd be people saying Kenny had restored the old Gerrard.

And he will score from range soon and people will say that.
[/quote]

theres more to gerrard than just long range goals (which have been seriously lacking in recent times). We'll never have the old gerrard back as i think he's realised now his body can't take it for too much longer. If he is relearning a role then brilliant, thats an excuse which i'm happy to accept as to why he's been iffy this season (besides a few wondrous games)
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296834#msg1296834 date=1299530583]
If he'd scored from range there'd be people saying Kenny had restored the old Gerrard.

And he will score from range soon and people will say that.
[/quote]

He's better further up the pitch, it's been proven statistically by him having more assists and goals when he played on the right or behind Torres. When he plays in the middle, too often the DM is left isolated (as we saw last week against the Hammers), because it's his natural game to roam. He'll either have to change his game and be more disciplined, which in turn might take a bit of edge off his play, or he'll have to revert to playing in the hole position, with Ming dropping back, which would be harsh on Ming based on present form.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44445.msg1296835#msg1296835 date=1299530621]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44445.msg1296813#msg1296813 date=1299529738]
Is it just me or does some here praise Gerrard even when he's anonymous in games.
I was quite surprised to see his name repeatedly listed in the MOM-thread.

I think Gerrard was poor yesterday. Maybe I'm expecting too much from him.
Maybe I should look at what he did do and not what he didn't. Maybe...(cue Lebron).
[/quote]

It's not just you, it was the same against the Hammers too, but he is coming back from injury, so... He had a late flurry where he had two cracking shots, but that was about it. It's a bit of a poser though deciding who plays where between him and Ming, because Ming is doing a great job, even though he's no Stevie G.
[/quote]

ming should be more advanced. he's a shithouse who doesn't put in tackles whereas gerrard isn't afraid to. ming is definitely a more attackign creative player than a defensive one. Gerrard can be immaculate anywhere
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44445.msg1296832#msg1296832 date=1299530567]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296828#msg1296828 date=1299530426]
He wasn't poor, he was just playing deeper.

He nearly scored twice. If one of those had gone in you wouldn't be giving him shit.
[/quote]

a goal doesn't make a performance. i'd happily praise him for the goal but it was still a lacklustre performance by his own magnificent standards. it was certainly in his worst 5 performances in recent years.
[/quote]

That's absolute crap. He's had bad games, like anybody else, at times on and off his whole career.

Most of them when played as a striker.

He appeared less involved in some of the important stuff because he was playing a different role than we're used to seeing him play lately. This role actually suits him better. He defended and helped the build up play, and he nearly scored on a couple of occasions. We beat our biggest rivals 3-1 with him captaining the team and you're giving him shit.

I think it's crackers, sorry.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296828#msg1296828 date=1299530426]
He wasn't poor, he was just playing deeper.

He nearly scored twice. If one of those had gone in you wouldn't be giving him shit.
[/quote]

We probably wouldn't but he didn't score so...
It's not about goals, I just think he wasn't involved enough.
I can't for the life of understand how some voted Gerrard ahead of Lucas or Meireles in the MOM-thread.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296839#msg1296839 date=1299530812]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44445.msg1296832#msg1296832 date=1299530567]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296828#msg1296828 date=1299530426]
He wasn't poor, he was just playing deeper.

He nearly scored twice. If one of those had gone in you wouldn't be giving him shit.
[/quote]

a goal doesn't make a performance. i'd happily praise him for the goal but it was still a lacklustre performance by his own magnificent standards. it was certainly in his worst 5 performances in recent years.
[/quote]

That's absolute crap. He's had bad games, like anybody else, at times on and off his whole career.

Most of them when played as a striker.

He appeared less involved in some of the important stuff because he was playing a different role than we're used to seeing him play lately. This role actually suits him better. He defended and helped the build up play, and he nearly scored on a couple of occasions. We beat our biggest rivals 3-1 with him captaining the team and you're giving him shit.

I think it's crackers, sorry.
[/quote]

fair enough robin, can't overly argue with it when you put it like that. he captained a side which beat the league leaders 3-1. But it wasn't his performance (hell, even overly his contribution) that won us the game. most (if not all) the squad was better than him.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296839#msg1296839 date=1299530812]
He's had bad games, like anybody else, at times on and off his whole career.

Most of them when played as a striker.
[/quote]

That's mental RH, no offence. He's had most of his bad games when played off the striker? And when has he played AS a striker?. Are you having a laugh? His record when he played off Torres was exceptional, the only thing that's hampered his game in the last 18 months is injuries that disrupted his partnership with Fernando and his last two games when returning from injury.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44445.msg1296835#msg1296835 date=1299530621]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44445.msg1296813#msg1296813 date=1299529738]
Is it just me or does some here praise Gerrard even when he's anonymous in games.
I was quite surprised to see his name repeatedly listed in the MOM-thread.

I think Gerrard was poor yesterday. Maybe I'm expecting too much from him.
Maybe I should look at what he did do and not what he didn't. Maybe...(cue Lebron).
[/quote]

It's not just you, it was the same against the Hammers too, but he is coming back from injury, so... He had a late flurry where he had two cracking shots, but that was about it. It's a bit of a poser though deciding who plays where between him and Ming, because Ming is doing a great job, even though he's no Stevie G.
[/quote]

Meireles is by no means as good as Gerrard, but his link up play with Kuyt and Suarez especially is impressive. He's done well there and deserves to play there.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44445.msg1296843#msg1296843 date=1299531065]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296839#msg1296839 date=1299530812]
He's had bad games, like anybody else, at times on and off his whole career.

Most of them when played as a striker.
[/quote]

That's mental RH, no offence. He's had most of his bad games when played off the striker (and when has he played AS a striker?)? Are you having a laugh? His record when he played off Torres was exceptional, the only thing that's hampered his game in the last 18 months is injuries that disrupted his partnership with Fernando and his last two games when returning from injury.
[/quote]

Second striker is a striker; that's what I mean by striker.

And yes, there was a very good stretch - true, but before the good stretch there was a long time where it wasn't working and we've seen plenty of it (not working) after (the good stretch) too; that's what I mean by "most of them".
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296845#msg1296845 date=1299531186]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44445.msg1296843#msg1296843 date=1299531065]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44445.msg1296839#msg1296839 date=1299530812]
He's had bad games, like anybody else, at times on and off his whole career.

Most of them when played as a striker.
[/quote]

That's mental RH, no offence. He's had most of his bad games when played off the striker (and when has he played AS a striker?)? Are you having a laugh? His record when he played off Torres was exceptional, the only thing that's hampered his game in the last 18 months is injuries that disrupted his partnership with Fernando and his last two games when returning from injury.
[/quote]

Second striker is a striker; that's what I mean by striker.

And yes, there was a very good stretch - true, but before the good stretch there was a long time where it wasn't working and we've seen plenty of it after too; that's what I mean by "most of them".
[/quote]

I still don't agree or see where you're coming from at all, his goals and assists counts upped when he moved from central midfield. Some people think he should be in there pulling the strings, fair enough, hardly surprising given our only other options are Lucas and Poulsen, but that doesn't make him better there.

Maybe earlier in his career it was good to see him play there, but he was more dynamic then and the team operated more or less around him, we had a work-hard midfield which gave him the licence to roam without much sacrifice on us defensively, but the game is different now, the team is different and he's older. And as I said, statistically speaking his goals and assists tallies were better when more advanced anyway. I'm not saying he can't play there, but saying he's 'better' there to the extent where you think he's had most of his shit games when playing (and as a result of playing) as a striker is well wide of the mark.
 
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