SACK RODGSON

[gkmacca]

As far as interviews are concerned, Rodgers is compromised by his relative lack of a track record. Someone like Kenny, or Rafa, had achieved plenty, had earned their egos and had skins like rhinos, so if they thought it would protect and help the team they would say whatever was needed, even if it risked making themselves look foolish and get them loads of flak. They knew it wouldn't last, because, hell, it was Dalglish, it was Benitez, they knew they knew more about the game than any hack, and most fans knew that, too.

I don't think Rodgers, at least intentionally, has the stomach for that at this stage in his career, and feels if he makes himself look foolish people will really think he IS foolish, so we get all the buck-pushing and private briefings. Once again, having a more experienced and respected ally on board would have helped him with this so much, and IMHO FSG were mad not to either insist on it or look elsewhere. But the dubious off-field performances are pretty trivial when it comes down to it - if the team was winning regularly few would care what nonsense he was spouting.

He needs, urgently now, to appear to be in control of this team on the pitch - coaching them, getting his message across and watching it pay dividends. There was plenty of evidence of this early on in the season, in terms of style and discipline, but my god the team seems woozily off-message most of the time now. Yes, they play attractively at times, but the Rodgers signature isn't stamped so strongly on those performances. If he really wants, once and for all, to dismiss all the mutterings about Martinez being the real architect of Swansea's success and style and underline his own genius, now is the time for real courage. He's got what's left of the season to show who Brendan Rodgers really is. After that the doubters will start to proliferate, and he'll be in big trouble.

 

[RedZeppelin III]

At the very least it will be interesting to see how Rodgers and the team handle this period . The wheels could easily come off , well if they were ever on . We could be out of the Europa league by next week and we're not far from giving up on 4th . So that would be season over and with this team that could lead to disaster .

 

[Modo]

What exactly are you basing this on ? The core of our senior players have been here for a few seasons now , people seem to rate them highly, yet the team has had finishes of 7th,6th , 8th and christ knows what this season . Only Sturridge from Rodgers' signings has shown signs of being a success (coutinho exempt of course ) . Some of the younger lads have promise but aren't half as good as people think .

So hey you might be right , we might come good but right now how you can claim us a decent team i don't know .

Well the team isn't shit. You have to admit that it's at least decent, something to build on. Sure we're not perfect but it's a start.

 

[RedZeppelin III]

All I will say is that my evertonian mates (people have met these and can validate what they know about football) laugh their fucking head off every time BR talks and some of the shite he comes out with. "Reverse forward" being the main one.

I don't like being Laughed at by evertonians.

"We're very disappointed to have lost the game. After that opening spell, when they had too much space, I thought it was a near-on perfect away performance."

now i know people hate this comparison but can you imagine if Hodgson had said that after a result like tonight !!!

People might think Rodgers is getting abuse but for the whole part he's had a massive amount of backing and patience .

 

[RedZeppelin III]

Well the team isn't shit. You have to admit that it's at least decent, something to build on. Sure we're not perfect but it's a start.

How can i admit that ? the core of the team has done fuck all the previous 3 seasons and this season is nothing more than average , for a mid table team . How can you say they are decent when there has been no proof so far ? They haven't beaten a good team all season . It's just blind faith . Hopefully though you (we) are rewarded for that faith .

 

[Modo]

I wouldn't call it blind faith, I've seen what we're capable of. We should have won against Arsenal and City. OK, I'm using the word "should" here but from what I saw in those games our attack has potential.
Sturridge and Suarez seem to click, Coutinho just joined.I see potential in our team, I never expected anything big from this season.
Don't get me wrong it's been a poor season but it could be a way for the team to grow and gel before next season.
Hopefully we'll sell a couple of players next summer and bring in a top class defender and a keeper in order to sure up the defence.
This is Rodgers first season as manager and I think it's a bit early to be knee-jerking.

 

[gkmacca]

It's always too early to be knee-jerking. That's why it's called knee-jerking. (Please excuse the pedantry - it's instinctive rather than malicious!) But otherwise that strikes me as a fair defence of Rodgers at this stage. I think the sound of the clock ticking is getting louder and louder and the next three months or so will be crucial, but as you say there are reasons for some degree of patience,or at least curiosity, given there's not much else to do this season.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Rodgers has tried to implement his philosophy straight away. Evolution was what's needed not revolution.

 

[Modo]

It's always too early to be knee-jerking. That's why it's called knee-jerking. (Please excuse the pedantry - it's instinctive rather than malicious!) But otherwise that strikes me as a fair defence of Rodgers at this stage. I think the sound of the clock ticking is getting louder and louder and the next three months or so will be crucial, but as you say there are reasons for some degree of patience,or at least curiosity, given there's not much else to do this season.

pretty much, yeah.

 

[gkmacca]

Rodgers has tried to implement his philosophy straight away. Evolution was what's needed not revolution.

He sounded, late last autumn, as if he'd realised that, belatedly, but it was hard to tell if he'd realised he was wrong to do it or just to talk about it. After the ex-pros had invited him to attend some function he reappeared seeming eager to stress continuity. It was quite a noticeable change.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Maybe this is the evolution and we've just got to wear it for a bit. Oh I don't know anymore. Whatever it is I'm getting fed up of it. I'll still lay the blame at the owners door. They had the chance to appoint Van Gaal but they chose another option based on....errr...their deep knowledge of soccer.

 

[Molbystwin]

As far as interviews are concerned, Rodgers is compromised by his relative lack of a track record. Someone like Kenny, or Rafa, had achieved plenty, had earned their egos and had skins like rhinos, so if they thought it would protect and help the team they would say whatever was needed, even if it risked making themselves look foolish and get them loads of flak. They knew it wouldn't last, because, hell, it was Dalglish, it was Benitez, they knew they knew more about the game than any hack, and most fans knew that, too.

I don't think Rodgers, at least intentionally, has the stomach for that at this stage in his career, and feels if he makes himself look foolish people will really think he IS foolish, so we get all the buck-pushing and private briefings. Once again, having a more experienced and respected ally on board would have helped him with this so much, and IMHO FSG were mad not to either insist on it or look elsewhere. But the dubious off-field performances are pretty trivial when it comes down to it - if the team was winning regularly few would care what nonsense he was spouting.

He needs, urgently now, to appear to be in control of this team on the pitch - coaching them, getting his message across and watching it pay dividends. There was plenty of evidence of this early on in the season, in terms of style and discipline, but my god the team seems woozily off-message most of the time now. Yes, they play attractively at times, but the Rodgers signature isn't stamped so strongly on those performances. If he really wants, once and for all, to dismiss all the mutterings about Martinez being the real architect of Swansea's success and style and underline his own genius, now is the time for real courage. He's got what's left of the season to show who Brendan Rodgers really is. After that the doubters will start to proliferate, and he'll be in big trouble.

He does suffer from being relatively inexperienced with nascent reputation and yet managing a "big side", or at least a side with big reputation and commensurate expectation. I think we should have appointed a "big name" manager as much for show as for anything else, appearances are important as Rodgers is clearly aware during his self conscious press chats. He inherited a poor hand to play, owners wary of investing heavily after last summer, Injured Lucas, waning Gerrard and Reina etc. We fucked up monumentally not getting a striker to help Luis in the summer, it would have made a difference, he has been unlucky.

The cold facts remain that we have lost far far too many games for the season to be described as anything other than a nightmare; Over the last few years it's become expected to finish outside the big 4 but you do still have to have some highlights in a season, we haven't, it has been miserable watching us lurk from one bad results to 2 OK results back to a disaster. I wouldn't be upset to see him go t.b.h but think it would be silly to do so having sacked so many managers in such short order.

 

[Hansern]

We're on course for 52 points. That isn't progress.

Lets see where we end up before judging that then?
If he gets less than 52 points its obviously not progress at all.
But I think we'll get more than that.

 

[Hansern]

Really Hansern. Is that spring of 2012 the only milestone to measure progress against? Is that fucked up period of time the only stae of art this club has been in?

People talk here as we are fucking newbies and not entitled expect anything. A win against Norwich or Fulham is supposed to be greated as triumphs we never have seen before, and they are proof of the huge step forwards we are taking under this young manager that has lead the mighty Swans and Reading to great hights.

What?

 

[Hansern]

All I will say is that my evertonian mates (people have met these and can validate what they know about football) laugh their fucking head off every time BR talks and some of the shite he comes out with. "Reverse forward" being the main one.

I don't like being Laughed at by evertonians.

They havent won something in 18 years and they're laughing at us?
But I agree with you, one of the lads on my football team supports Everton.
Not one practice goes by without a comment about the league table.
I usually tackle the fuck out of him every time though, it helps.

 

[Insignificance]

What?

I will tell you what.
You are pointing out in your post that people have short memories as they don´t remember the poor points tally last season, hence anything above the 52 points or so is progress.

But I think you are the one with short memory here. The poor tally from last season came on the rebound of the Suarez saga, and the fact that the team couldn´t really get it going in the second half. If you look back to 2011 it was a fairly good calender year, where we played some magnificent football, and we did enough to make among others Sir Alex to reckon us a s a true enemy and a threath to his team. We were inefficient in front of goal during the autumn, but in all we created shitloads of chances and played well. We had a much more balanced team than now, and we had the experience in the team to get to two cup finals even thorugh that bad spell.

This constant bullshit about seeing 52+ point as a progress, make me wonder were it all come from. Progress compared to last spring? Yes. Progress to what the club have achieved the last 5 years, the last decade the last two decades? Not in a fucking way. You make it sound like the club was saved from relegation last spring, which is obviously not the truth, and people here are creating a myth that we were so close to the cliffs that one more step would have sent us right down the drain.

52 points with a team full of internationals should not be hard at all. Progress should have been pushing for top four, not stagnate. The trend of stagnation is hard to get out of, and I think it is a shame that we are not pushing for top four, especially given that people wondered if Arsenal should sack Arsene Wenger over the poor season they have. We are establishing ourselves on par with WBA, Stoke and Swansea, and people dare to call it progress? it is no fucking progress, beyond shipping out experienced players, and replace them with younger ones, who largely look like average Joes anyway.

I don´t want to sack managers constantly. I think Hodgson was a huge mistake, and I think Kenny should have done better over the spring. I am pretty sure he would have corrected it over the summer, but when he wasn´t given the chance to do it it is ridicoulous to gamble with the club as it has been done with the Rodgers appointment. A man that has never been a top half manager, and insist on employing a backroom staff with fuck all experience on what it takes to be a top four club. He has been involved with some academies, as well traded around the championship. Lets give him time to prove himself, as we allready see progress? The demand on thsi level should be better than a good run of six games with the squad he has. WBA, Stoke and Swansea would love to have the money he has spent, and they would love to have the squad he has. He has been talking shite throughout the season and in reality he doesn´t suit a club with ambitions at all. So the best thing to do then is to reduce the ambitions to suit him? Well that is the major achievement so far.

 

[gkmacca]

Rodgers last night: “What is most disappointing is that, apart from those two goals, it is was almost the perfect European performance – but I think that is all part of our growing pains.
“It is something where in six or 12 months’ time we won’t be making those mistakes but at the moment that’s where we’re at.”

The first line is practically Hodgsonesque in its ludicrousness. Liverpool away to Barca in 2007 was 'almost a perfect European performance' - last night was woeful. The second is already a cliche - he can't keep on talking about 'growing pains,' and even though you can make a case for some aspects of play taking six or twelve months to mature, surely that standard of defending isn't one of them. That's an urgent coaching issue that a manager needs to correct quickly, not dismiss it as yet another thing that will evolve in some unexplained way over a lengthy period.

 

[keniget]

True, but there is an element of what's he supposed to say.

We suffered a bad loss against West Brom followed by another loss in Europe and it's quite evident that the same problems that plagued us six months ago are still plaguing us now.

I really hope that (what feels like) this mythical Rodgers system starts to kick in at some point.

 

[Insignificance]

It is not only mistakes that is costing us. If Rodgers still believe the system is working perfect for any game, and personal mistake costs us it is worrying.

 

[hmmmmm1]

Did you watch the game?

Sureez had 3 good chances to score. He scores them and we win

Rodgers last night: “What is most disappointing is that, apart from those two goals, it is was almost the perfect European performance – but I think that is all part of our growing pains.
“It is something where in six or 12 months’ time we won’t be making those mistakes but at the moment that’s where we’re at.”

The first line is practically Hodgsonesque in its ludicrousness. Liverpool away to Barca in 2007 was 'almost a perfect European performance' - last night was woeful. The second is already a cliche - he can't keep on talking about 'growing pains,' and even though you can make a case for some aspects of play taking six or twelve months to mature, surely that standard of defending isn't one of them. That's an urgent coaching issue that a manager needs to correct quickly, not dismiss it as yet another thing that will evolve in some unexplained way over a lengthy period.

 

[tony]

Maybe this is the evolution and we've just got to wear it for a bit. Oh I don't know anymore. Whatever it is I'm getting fed up of it. I'll still lay the blame at the owners door. They had the chance to appoint Van Gaal but they chose another option based on....errr...their deep knowledge of soccer.

Henry hasnt been to Liverpool since last May!! The owners obviously don't see any crisis in our current position which makes their stance with Kenny all the more baffling.
I guess we are stuck with Rogers for the medium term, I hope he can turn things around but I seriously doubt it especially with the inexperienced management team around him.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Rodgers last night: “What is most disappointing is that, apart from those two goals, it is was almost the perfect European performance – but I think that is all part of our growing pains.
“It is something where in six or 12 months’ time we won’t be making those mistakes but at the moment that’s where we’re at.”

The first line is practically Hodgsonesque in its ludicrousness. Liverpool away to Barca in 2007 was 'almost a perfect European performance' - last night was woeful. The second is already a cliche - he can't keep on talking about 'growing pains,' and even though you can make a case for some aspects of play taking six or twelve months to mature, surely that standard of defending isn't one of them. That's an urgent coaching issue that a manager needs to correct quickly, not dismiss it as yet another thing that will evolve in some unexplained way over a lengthy period.

The first thing that sprang to mind when he said that was what Hodgson said after the 2-0 defeat to Everton... Where 6 months into a season.. those mistakes should be well cut out, yet they are consistantly happening..

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Our problem is still the lack of being able to take our chances. We're creating plenty, and dominating enough to win games, but we're just not doing it. Sturridge should help, we've really missed him the last two games, but we need at least one more option.

If we start taking our chances, all our other problem areas in midfield and defence can be looked at. And they won't look so bad either. If we had taken our chances when we had them in the last two games, we would have won and possibly had two clean sheets too.

 

[StevieM]

I will tell you what.

But the problem is not confined to last season - since Rafa finished 2nd we've returned a decreasing points total in each season.

So it's not just about the Suarez issue last season - there's more to it.

You say a team full of seasoned internationals should return more tgan 52 points - but last year they didn't and it was a worse return than the year before with the Hicks & Gilette ousting side-show - which was worse than beach-ball & Rafa imploding.

So my contention is we've hit rock bottom & are one the way back up - I expect a points total in the early 60's - not good but getting close to were we ended up under Rafa.

Next season we have to hit the 70 point mark.

 

[Fox]

our main problem last night was the same as most of last year, we never had a clinical striker

This season we thought in Suarez we had one but the last month he has gone off the boil and back to the wasteful Luis

Last night was just typical liverpool since Torres got pants, we are not clinical in front of goal, too many chances missed

 

[Insignificance]

But the problem is not confined to last season - since Rafa finished 2nd we've returned a decreasing points total in each season.

So it's not just about the Suarez issue last season - there's more to it.

You say a team full of seasoned internationals should return more tgan 52 points - but last year they didn't and it was a worse return than the year before with the Hicks & Gilette ousting side-show - which was worse than beach-ball & Rafa imploding.

So my contention is we've hit rock bottom & are one the way back up - I expect a points total in the early 60's - not good but getting close to were we ended up under Rafa.

Next season we have to hit the 70 point mark.

I agree with most that. And that is the main pont. It is not black or white, it is a lot more to it. Suarez saga cost us last season, no doubt there. It killed a momentum we had built and going into the crucial xmas period with that overshadowing everything else was brutal. it is easy to say we are pro's and should have been able to focus, but were are who we are as well. But compensating for poor league form we did manage two cup finals, and that it seem to count for nothing shows that we are either very selctive in our memories or we are not appreciating what this club is about.

And we must look behind the points also. Yes we have decreased since finishing number two, and the things happening off the field has been a constant mare as well as the decline on the field. In hindsight sacking Rafa was bad. Replacing him with Hodgson shows that the men making the decisions in this club (although they have changed as well) doesn't know what this club is all about...

Will we make low 60's? Not convinced about it. We certainly have the squad and capacity, but we have seen throughout the season that we are capable to piss away points all over the league. It should be an easy fixture list ahead of us, but that is no guarantee when it comes to us these days.

70 point mark will be progress. That is something to stretch for.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I really hope that (what feels like) this mythical Rodgers system starts to kick in at some point.

Do we really have time for that?

 

[refugee]

Rodgers last night: “What is most disappointing is that, apart from those two goals, it is was almost the perfect European performance – but I think that is all part of our growing pains.
“It is something where in six or 12 months’ time we won’t be making those mistakes but at the moment that’s where we’re at.”

The first line is practically Hodgsonesque in its ludicrousness. Liverpool away to Barca in 2007 was 'almost a perfect European performance' - last night was woeful. The second is already a cliche - he can't keep on talking about 'growing pains,' and even though you can make a case for some aspects of play taking six or twelve months to mature, surely that standard of defending isn't one of them. That's an urgent coaching issue that a manager needs to correct quickly, not dismiss it as yet another thing that will evolve in some unexplained way over a lengthy period.

At least he didn't use his roulette wheel of blame to pick yet another scapegoat

 

[Insignificance]

At least he didn't use his roulette wheel of blame to pick yet another scapegoat

That wheel singled out Lucas (bench) and agger (not even the bench) before the game.

 

[gkmacca]

Did you watch the game?

Sureez had 3 good chances to score. He scores them and we win

Yes, thanks, I saw the game. You can have a few chances to score in a game even when it's a pretty poor performance. But I guess you think those chances are proof of this supposedly 'almost perfect' performance?