Sack him

[jexykrodic]

Football Managers without the resources of the elite clubs have to beat the odds consistently. This can't be an expectation it can only be a hope.

If you want to give yourself the very best chance of regular appearance in elite competition you have to meet the expectations of elite footballers; that means high transfer outlay and elite wages.

Houllier, Benitez, Dalglish, Rodgers etc have had little bearing on our slow decline. In fact, in many ways, they have all performed well given the disparity in resources.

Cash has brought Chelsea and City to elite status, United have always been rich and Arsenal are trying to cement a long term plan to give them elite financial status.

 

[Whirly]

Football Managers without the resources of the elite clubs have to beat the odds consistently. This can't be an expectation it can only be a hope.

If you want to give yourself the very best chance of regular appearance in elite competition you have to meet the expectations of elite footballers; that means high transfer outlay and elite wages.

Houllier, Benitez, Dalglish, Rodgers etc have had little bearing on our slow decline. In fact, in many ways, they have all performed well given the disparity in resources.

Cash has brought Chelsea and City to elite status, United have always been rich and Arsenal are trying to cement a long term plan to give them elite financial status.

This is about where I'm at, I don't see us really establishing a footing on that top tier unless we either get purchased by a free spending billionaire, or play our cards almost perfectly. That means having a fantastic youth set up, hitting success on a disproportionate amount of our transfer targets, and consistently picking up points.

BR has already had a bit of a power coup with the youth set up, a move I think we can agree he doesn't have enough background to have done. It's successful if it actually leads to youth players being suited to our style of play, but that seems to be changing every 3 months.

As far as transfers go, the set up is hopelessly flawed already. We're slow to progress negotiations, mediocre at identifying targets, and have obviously terrible lines of communications between the committee and BR. If nothing changes here, we're really screwed, as the margin of error is so low. I think BR's transfer targets are overall worse than the committee's, but the committee itself doesn't do a great job.

In terms of consistently picking up points though, this is a major hurdle. We tend to have terrible stretches followed by positive ones, which is especially biased towards us struggling in the first half of the season. But this means we're going to be playing our worst while trying to escape the group stages of the Champions League, which is really the ultimate goal to win. Again, after three seasons, we need to be doing better.

On a different note, I don't think this 3 at the back system is the long term fix for us, it tends to be a matter of time before other clubs figure out a way to exploit the shortcomings and we're back at square one. I fully expect us to be playing 4ATB again towards the end of the season after we hit another rough patch or injuries, for better or worse.

Just given how low the margin of error is though for us going forward, especially since we really wasted what resources/momentum we had last summer, I'm still not convinced BR is the long term solution. It boils down to me as, with the amount of talent and resources we had at our disposal last summer, I don't think many managers of the sort of tier we expect could have done a worse job in the first half of this season. And if the floor is really that low going forward, then I'm going to have to be a skeptic.

 

[Red Mullet]

This is about where I'm at, I don't see us really establishing a footing on that top tier unless we either get purchased by a free spending billionaire, or play our cards almost perfectly. That means having a fantastic youth set up, hitting success on a disproportionate amount of our transfer targets, and consistently picking up points.

BR has already had a bit of a power coup with the youth set up, a move I think we can agree he doesn't have enough background to have done. It's successful if it actually leads to youth players being suited to our style of play, but that seems to be changing every 3 months.

As far as transfers go, the set up is hopelessly flawed already. We're slow to progress negotiations, mediocre at identifying targets, and have obviously terrible lines of communications between the committee and BR. If nothing changes here, we're really screwed, as the margin of error is so low. I think BR's transfer targets are overall worse than the committee's, but the committee itself doesn't do a great job.

In terms of consistently picking up points though, this is a major hurdle. We tend to have terrible stretches followed by positive ones, which is especially biased towards us struggling in the first half of the season. But this means we're going to be playing our worst while trying to escape the group stages of the Champions League, which is really the ultimate goal to win. Again, after three seasons, we need to be doing better.

On a different note, I don't think this 3 at the back system is the long term fix for us, it tends to be a matter of time before other clubs figure out a way to exploit the shortcomings and we're back at square one. I fully expect us to be playing 4ATB again towards the end of the season after we hit another rough patch or injuries, for better or worse.

Just given how low the margin of error is though for us going forward, especially since we really wasted what resources/momentum we had last summer, I'm still not convinced BR is the long term solution. It boils down to me as, with the amount of talent and resources we had at our disposal last summer, I don't think many managers of the sort of tier we expect could have done a worse job in the first half of this season. And if the floor is really that low going forward, then I'm going to have to be a skeptic.

I don't see how our transfers are hopelessly flawed? It's by no means perfect and a few duds have slipped through but some real quality is there - more potential then out right right now quality but it's not a bad picture as you make out.

The team should never be reliant on one system anyway so 3 at the back should be kept but 4 as an when it's required. Diamond or 2 AM with a single striker or 2 strikers. The team has shown to be adaptable, possibly as a result of the transfer policy of selecting footballers so why not play the systems until it begins to fail? The trick is for Rodgers to identify when this is happening sooner rather than later to minimise lost points.

I think Rodgers is fully aware of our cyclic nature for playing well and not. Last season, we started well and followed our tradition strong second half, the result? A title challenge. If Rodgers can figure out how to keep doing this then that's good news.

 

[mark1975]

How does our style of play change every three months? We might alternate systems, but that's besides the point.

 

[Jack D Rips]

This is about where I'm at, I don't see us really establishing a footing on that top tier unless we either get purchased by a free spending billionaire, or play our cards almost perfectly. That means having a fantastic youth set up, hitting success on a disproportionate amount of our transfer targets, and consistently picking up points.

BR has already had a bit of a power coup with the youth set up, a move I think we can agree he doesn't have enough background to have done. It's successful if it actually leads to youth players being suited to our style of play, but that seems to be changing every 3 months.

As far as transfers go, the set up is hopelessly flawed already. We're slow to progress negotiations, mediocre at identifying targets, and have obviously terrible lines of communications between the committee and BR. If nothing changes here, we're really screwed, as the margin of error is so low. I think BR's transfer targets are overall worse than the committee's, but the committee itself doesn't do a great job.

In terms of consistently picking up points though, this is a major hurdle. We tend to have terrible stretches followed by positive ones, which is especially biased towards us struggling in the first half of the season. But this means we're going to be playing our worst while trying to escape the group stages of the Champions League, which is really the ultimate goal to win. Again, after three seasons, we need to be doing better.

On a different note, I don't think this 3 at the back system is the long term fix for us, it tends to be a matter of time before other clubs figure out a way to exploit the shortcomings and we're back at square one. I fully expect us to be playing 4ATB again towards the end of the season after we hit another rough patch or injuries, for better or worse.

Just given how low the margin of error is though for us going forward, especially since we really wasted what resources/momentum we had last summer, I'm still not convinced BR is the long term solution. It boils down to me as, with the amount of talent and resources we had at our disposal last summer, I don't think many managers of the sort of tier we expect could have done a worse job in the first half of this season. And if the floor is really that low going forward, then I'm going to have to be a skeptic.

I think you should be just taking it one game at a time. You're over analysing. The manager has brought in a new system to sort out the problems ( that you were probably complaining about) , and now you're worrying about it not working going forward. The next match is FA Cup away v Bolton.

 

[Molbystwin]

What a difference a couple of months make. From the hysterics in November and posts like "I'd rather be Newcastle", to perfect form over the last several weeks.

Does he still deserve the boot? We're not there yet, but we're showing signs of getting back amongst the thick of it.

I don't think there was that much hysteria or foaming to get Rodgers sacked or perhaps if there was I wasn't bothering to read it... I didn't advocate for it personally...

But In answer to the question, does he deserve the boot, if we finish outside the top four IMO yes he will deserve the boot.
It took him till Christmas to get the team playing at all, after huge investment in the team, we seem ok at the moment and I'm certainly behind the team and Rodgers also but...
7th????
Mignolet!!....

It's down to the players now but Rodgers has got to take some blame for the first five months of the season because it was a fucking car crash in slow motion.

 

[kingjulian]

Yeah...there were a few things that Rodgers needs to be held accountable for in the first half of the season, but I think he largely addressed all of those and we are likely to play from a position fo strength next season.

I always thought he was best man to drive us out of the mess, even though he was part responsible for creating it in the first place.....i'd rather have a manager like him than someone like David Moyes, who rolls with the flow. Its a trait he shares with a lot of successful managers.

 

[Ryan]

What a difference a couple of months make. From the hysterics in November and posts like "I'd rather be Newcastle", to perfect form over the last several weeks.

Does he still deserve the boot? We're not there yet, but we're showing signs of getting back amongst the thick of it.

"perfect form"

Mark.

We've had a pretty good run of fixtures over the last month. But we still lost to Chelsea, and still drew 2-2 at home to the worst team in the league after being 2-0 up in that "few weeks."

I'm not disputing we haven't improved, but we're still 7th. We're still out of the Champions League. And we still don't have a defence capable of winning anything.

The major concerns that existed for me 2 months ago haven't gone away. I like Rodgers, but I like being a realist too. It's ok to be objective you know.

 

[mark1975]

I know its ok to be objective Ryan, thanks for pointing that out. I wasn't retaliating to balanced or fair critique, I was responding to idiots calling for his head in October.

 

[Ryan]

I know its ok to be objective Ryan, thanks for pointing that out. I wasn't retaliating to balanced or fair critique, I was responding to idiots calling for his head in October.

I don't think many were actually calling for him to be sacked though, were they Mark?

Maybe the knobhead who started the infamous thread like, but apart from that I think most of us were asking serious questions.

 

[mark1975]

I don't think many were actually calling for him to be sacked though, were they Mark?

Maybe the knobhead who started the infamous thread like, but apart from that I think most of us were asking serious questions.

There's been a few, Whirly, RedNinja, Modo.. The "serious" questions were fair btw, of course he fucked up.

 

[Insignificance]

He has done ok. But not more. We are on a good run in the easy part of the fixture list. Out of CL. Out of League cup. Rematch in FA cup after not beating poor opposition. Lucas whom he didnt care to use until it was forced upon him has saved us big time. Our marquee signing of the summer is behind Lambert in the pecking order when we struggle for goals. If he left I wouldnt cry given his replacement was top notch. But you never know with the yanks...

 

[gkmacca]

his charisma could give him something special with the players that few other managers have.

Charisma? He's about four foot tall with bits of a Twyford's toilet bowl for teeth. The charisma comes from the club, and he's growing into that. He needs to win something, but he's full of good intentions and learning some good lessons this season.

 

[Gary25]

I don't think many were actually calling for him to be sacked though, were they Mark?

Maybe the knobhead who started the infamous thread like, but apart from that I think most of us were asking serious questions.

"this job is beneath you" or words to that effect.

 

[KopRed]

I don't think many were actually calling for him to be sacked though, were they Mark?

Maybe the knobhead who started the infamous thread like, but apart from that I think most of us were asking serious questions.

Asking questions is right. You don't get away scott free when you lose against teams like Newcastle, Westham, Villa, Crystal Palace. It is not just losing but losing and playing like we have never played together before. Arguably if BR did not get the stick he has got, we would still be looking at the bottom half of the table, with Lovren and Balo fucking us around.

 

[localny]

it's not complicated. Play a striker that makes runs, provides and outlet and fits in the system, and we'll be fine.

I can't, for the life of me understand why they didn't do something about this in Jan with CL qualification in the balance.

Defensive issues remain. But you know what

• Mignolet has improved (moderately)
• emre looks great
• Markovic has come on leaps, and prostate bounds
• lallana still looks great
• balotelli can't get a look in
• defense looks more settled
• Ibe is looking great
• Defensive midfield is doing well
• Studge is back, and scoring
• Sterling is flying
• We're slowly getting off our addiction to Suarez (mentally, and really)

Are we there yet? NO. but have we started to recover from a massive blip? hell yeah.

Fair play to rodgers. he's learned and is improving. But - you can't sign six /seven new players and expect the same as last year. We should have known better.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

Defensive issues remain. But you know what

• Mignolet has improved (moderately)
• emre looks great
• Markovic has come on leaps, and prostate bounds
• lallana still looks great
• balotelli can't get a look in
• defense looks more settled
• Ibe is looking great
• Defensive midfield is doing well
• Studge is back, and scoring
• Sterling is flying
• We're slowly getting off our addiction to Suarez (mentally, and really)

Heh. Spot the odd one out.

 

[Insignificance]

it's not complicated. Play a striker that makes runs, provides and outlet and fits in the system, and we'll be fine.

I can't, for the life of me understand why they didn't do something about this in Jan with CL qualification in the balance.

Defensive issues remain. But you know what

• Mignolet has improved (moderately)
• emre looks great
• Markovic has come on leaps, and prostate bounds
• lallana still looks great
• balotelli can't get a look in
• defense looks more settled
• Ibe is looking great
• Defensive midfield is doing well
• Studge is back, and scoring
• Sterling is flying
• We're slowly getting off our addiction to Suarez (mentally, and really)

Are we there yet? NO. but have we started to recover from a massive blip? hell yeah.

Fair play to rodgers. he's learned and is improving. But - you can't sign six /seven new players and expect the same as last year. We should have known better.

Maybe if we had a manager that knew already, so he didnt have to use our club to learn, we would have benefitted from other clubs poor form this season and been sniffing around top two instead of trailing a CL spot. Maybe we would prepare for CL games in Feb instead of Euro league. What we have done so far this season is an absolut minimum of what to expect. Anything less should have been rewarded with a big boot in my opinon. But that is of course given that a good replacement was available.

 

[mark1975]

Maybe if we had a manager that knew already, so he didnt have to use our club to learn, we would have benefitted from other clubs poor form this season and been sniffing around top two instead of trailing a CL spot. Maybe we would prepare for CL games in Feb instead of Euro league. What we have done so far this season is an absolut minimum of what to expect. Anything less should have been rewarded with a big boot in my opinon. But that is of course given that a good replacement was available.

How else is he going to learn? So basically, it's a manager with pedigree, or no one? Weren't you one of the ones who backed Benitez to the hilt? Benitez managed one title challenge in 6 seasons, Rodgers did it in his first two.

It's amazing the amount of bias on this site at times. "He got lucky having the club to learn from", "he got lucky having Suarez", "anything less should be rewarded in the big boot". So what's the reward for last season's brilliance? Cynicism and the threat of the sack after a poor run? So basically he can have us playing great football, and it's down to some outside influence, but as soon as a shit run happens, it's squarely on him and he should be sacked?

It's amazing how some of you lads put so much credence in success in the CL, but an out of the blue title challenge over 38 games is the result of luck and counts for nothing going forward. People were clamouring for LVG last year, saying we missed out and United were going to win everything. They lose to shit teams too, Chelsea just got beat by Bradford fucking City.

 

[Insignificance]

How else is he going to learn? So basically, it's a manager with pedigree, or no one? Weren't you one of the ones who backed Benitez to the hilt? Benitez managed one title challenge in 6 seasons, Rodgers did it in his first two.

It's amazing the amount of bias on this site at times. "He got lucky having the club to learn from", "he got lucky having Suarez", "anything less should be rewarded in the big boot". So what's the reward for last season's brilliance? Cynicism and the threat of the sack after a poor run? So basically he can having us playing great football, and it's down to some outside influence, but as soon as a shit run happens, it's squarely on him and he should be sacked?

It's amazing how some of you lads put so much credence in success in the CL, but an out of the blue title challenge over 38 games is the result of luck and counts for nothing going forward. People were clamouring for LVG last year, saying we missed out and United were going to win everything. They lose to shit teams too, Chelsea just got beat by Bradford fucking City.

No I did not back Benitez to the hilt. I am forever Grateful for what he did in, as for Rodgers difficult circumstances, but I grew very frustrated With Benitez. Little did I know that Roy Hodgson were to be appointed. However I did and will allways back Kenny Dalglish to the hilt.

It is no doubt that Suarez played a huge role in last years title Challenge. To underestimate that would be daft. Going forward from Suarez (to copy success) is a difficult thing. That is a big Challenge. And to be fair we have coped poor in that repsect. We looked like nothing for the whole autumn, and a rather poor and unspiring United team is sitting comfortably above us in the table if that is something to measure against.

It is not an easy thing to both please the "buy prospects and develop them to saleable assets" policy and the demand from fans like me that is looking for real quality all over at all times. And I also state that i very encourage with both Lazar and Can.

However I think there is a case against Rodgers. He has made changes since his arrival, quite a few of them, and he still Depends on what was here before he arrived. And I think that it is just as much Down to coincidents that Henderson and Lucas is carrying his midfield today (as he clearly didn't rate any of them) instead of Allen and whoever else he thought might do the job. He is stuck with a brilliant Sakho whom he wanted to push out by Lovren. He has spent probably 50 mill on a frontline he cant get to work when Sturridge is out (and he is injury prone). He did replace Reina with an inexperienced Mignolet, whom maybe has cost him CL footie Next year, even if he is starting to find his form. Replacing all Your leaders with inexperience is a Dangerous game, and not all these changes has been forced on him. His love for mediocre players is frustrating (Aspas, Borini, Allen etc).

So the conclusion is that even if we are in form and finding back to part of Our game from last season, most of this season has been utterly naive and uninspiring. No pressure, no balls and no rythm in Our game. yes we have coped well with the easy part of the fixture list, but we are vulnerable, and are up against some tough shit over the NeXT month or two. We don't know if we cope with that.

 

[Judge Jules]

"Naïve and uninspiring" is a good summary of your own post. You ignore the fact - and it *is* a fact - that Rodgers was far from the only person with a voice in those transfer decisions. He was also far from the only one to have concerns about Hendo's and Lucas' form earlier in the season, and BTW we took till Christmas to find our best form last season as well - Suarez' goals tided us over until then. Like you and others I would have preferred to see an experienced manager appointed when Rodgers got the job, but that's no reason to insist on seeing everything in the worst possible light now.

 

[Insignificance]

"Naïve and uninspiring" is a good summary of your own post. You ignore the fact - and it *is* a fact - that Rodgers was far from the only person with a voice in those transfer decisions. He was also far from the only one to have concerns about Hendo's and Lucas' form earlier in the season, and BTW we took till Christmas to find our best form last season as well - Suarez' goals tided us over until then. Like you and others I would have preferred to see an experienced manager appointed when Rodgers got the job, but that's no reason to insist on seeing everything in the worst possible light now.

It is not seeing it in the worst possible light. But he did a very poor job in the first half of the season. There might be many excuses, but why should we run and hide behind excuses. We need to step up, and we have been better (still lost awful points to shit teams). Now the real tough games start, and if he copes with them then fine. If not he might not be up to the job?

 

[Judge Jules]

I don't think it's as simple as that. We are still a "work in progress" and there's a danger of rushing to premature judgment about Rodgers and about the progress we've made so far, not least because if we *do* make a change we'll be imposing still more delay on ourselves. If our form were now to collapse during the second half of the season and we finished miles away from the chase for a CL place, then yes, Rodgers' position would be under threat and deserve to be. However, if we keep our form up but don't quite make the CL this time around, IMO it would be a serious mistake to let Rodgers go and abandon the project at this stage.

 

[Insignificance]

I don't think it's as simple as that. We are still a "work in progress" and there's a danger of rushing to premature judgment about Rodgers and about the progress we've made so far, not least because if we *do* make a change we'll be imposing still more delay on ourselves. If our form were now to collapse during the second half of the season and we finished miles away from the chase for a CL place, then yes, Rodgers' position would be under threat and deserve to be. However, if we keep our form up but don't quite make the CL this time around, IMO it would be a serious mistake to let Rodgers go and abandon the project at this stage.

I have no problems with that and I don't see how that conflicts with what i said. It should be a position under some kind of pressure. Mind you, we are in a situation were we need to make some steps forward as the potential gap between us and the top can be very hard to close if it is too big. We are work in progress, but that also mean progress have to be there. I am fine with steady progress, and it still remain to see if this season turn out to be acceptable or not. We can't afford spells like the one this autumn every season.

 

[Dahuge]

Should he be sacked that will depend upon where we finish, if we finish 6 or 7 then Definitely as that would 2 out of three seasons in 6th or lower.

5th I am not sure as he does a lot well but he is also a tool...he is the coutinho of management moments of genius and then goes missing and gets everything wrong. The only difference for me is I like coutinho and Rodgers gives me the creeps....

 

[Oncy]

One day ALL will believe in Mr Rodgers

 

[localny]

One day ALL will believe in Mr Rodgers

Like he (BR) does in himself. Nomm nomm (sound of him eating his own arm)

 

[mark1975]

Should he be sacked that will depend upon where we finish, if we finish 6 or 7 then Definitely as that would 2 out of three seasons in 6th or lower.

5th I am not sure as he does a lot well but he is also a tool...he is the coutinho of management moments of genius and then goes missing and gets everything wrong. The only difference for me is I like coutinho and Rodgers gives me the creeps....

In the first season he took over, he inherited a car crash of a setup, on the back of years of poor spending and mistreatment of some players, so directing the "he only finished 6th in his first season", stuff at him is nonsense. In the second half of the season the progress was phenomenal, his progress carried on into last season where we jumped to second. The first half of this season has been poor, he has made mistakes (no question), but he's starting to get it right again and we are back on track.

The amount of good form far outweighs the poor spells, we're also in the most competitive league in Europe and playing some of the best football I've seen us play, when at our best.

I get that people want quick fixes and quick results, but the style he's implementing deserves some degree of faith, he's getting fuck all from some quarters. "He gives me the creeps", have you re-read some of the antics of our previous managers & staff, and the stuff that went on under their rule? If people don't have an attachment to his persona, fine, he's still one of the most talented young managers in the game, I'm not sure what bearing his charisma has on anything. Everyone fucking hated Ferguson because he was a snidey, cheating, odious twat. I'm not sure their fans gave much of a fuck though.

All I see with Rodgers is a guy who is pretty fair with players, he promotes youth and gives exciting prospects a chance, for the most part it doesn't bother me that he occasionally wrings players out to dry in public, because mostly, it's worked - Skrtel, Henderson and to some degree of late, Mignolet. At least he's proven he's willing to compromise and give players the chance to change his mind. That's something that some of our previous managers were incapable of, instead they would let their ego's dictate their thinking and stubbornness would be their downfall. Like I said about our recent improvement, he's getting no credit for it, because all his detractors want to see is that we struggled for a few months, ergo, the change was forced on him, so it's not really a decision he can be given credit for. Selective reasoning aplenty.

 

[MaBigTip]

Charisma? He's about four foot tall with bits of a Twyford's toilet bowl for teeth. The charisma comes from the club, and he's growing into that. He needs to win something, but he's full of good intentions and learning some good lessons this season.

Who cares about the people outside of the club. Those young lads seem to love him. And that is down to his own brand of charisma. Its not that hard to see.

 

[Hansern]

Liverpool FC boss Brendan Rodgers sends touching condolence letter to fan who lost his grandad

13:13, 4 February 2015 By Ian Doyle

Shades of Shankly as Reds manager follows an Anfield tradition

Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers is all smiles
Liverpool FC have been hailed as “a family club” after Brendan Rodgers sent a personal letter of condolence to a supporter whose grandfather recently passed away.

Merseysider Joe Nelson received the letter from the Reds boss following the death of his grandfather Roy, an Anfield season ticket holder for more than 60 years.

In the letter, Rodgers wrote “Roy is part of our LFC family and always will be” and offered sympathies from everybody at the club.

And the family would like to thank the Northern Irishman in person for the heartwarming gesture.

“I couldn’t believe it at first,” said Joe. “I took it straight to my dad to show him.

“We were both absolutely made up that such an important person for the club had thought about the family at this sad time.

“It shows what a family club Liverpool are.

“It was a great gesture on behalf of the manager and club that they took the time to write a letter at this busy period for the club.

“I’d like to thank them on behalf of the family as it means a lot to us.

“I would love to get the chance to personally thank Brendan Rodgers for making a hard time a little more bearable.”

Joe added: “We’d had a shirt signed by the players and backroom staff for me when my granddad was in hospital but the letter was completely out of the blue.

“My granddad was still going to games last season and the last game he went was when we beat Spurs 4-0 at home. He’d had a season ticket for well over 60 years.”

Rodgers is not the first Liverpool manager to send personal correspondence to supporters.

Bill Shankly the Liverpool Football manager in his office at the ground
Bill Shankly made a habit of writing to fans, sometimes spending hours on his typewriter and never ignoring individual letters sent by supporters.

Examples of such letters are on display in the Anfield Museum, including one sent to long-time supporter Chris Wood after the Reds had come close to winning the title in 1972.

Shankly even continued to reply to supporters after his retirement in 1974, sending one letter to a 13-year-old fan after he met him standing on the Kop.