Nope, that's bollocks, it's the goals scored that matters, not conversion.
Rodgers on Transfers
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Nope, that's bollocks, it's the goals scored that matters, not conversion.
Which goals scored ratio? Per match?
By that logic, assists are worthless to strikers, which isn't the case.
@Whirly
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. Generally speaking, the game of football does not allow a player to just stand in front of goal taking shots at goal for 90mins straight.
The shots / goals ratio is an interesting stat that does show some insight but some of conclusions seemingly drawn solely from it go way overboard.
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. Generally speaking, the game of football does not allow a player to just stand in front of goal taking shots at goal for 90mins straight.
The shots / goals ratio is an interesting stat that does show some insight but some of conclusions seemingly drawn solely from it go way overboard.
I didn't mean to put the word ratio in there. It's the only the goals scored that matters.
How on earth did you come to that conclusion?
That's what I was saying.
Exactly.
I'd be made up if someone gave us our money back for Borini. He's not very good.
My point is that you can't overlook how inefficient Suarez is. At some point, taking over 8 shots to score a goal is going to come back and bite him(heh), regardless of his brilliance on the ball. It's a stat a lot of people overlook, and there are a million excuses for it, but a lot of his success came last season more from volume of opportunities. I wouldn't be too broken up with selling him at this point, because he's likely never going to see that volume of chances with us ever again, and unless he really kicks his game up a notch, his counting stats will suffer, and value will go down quite a bit.
You can score all the goals you want and make all the highlight reels, but would you ever pay 40M or 50M or whatever for a player who converts at such a low pace? Unless he becomes 20-30% more efficient, which is asking quite a lot, it's not a practical number to work with for a side looking to retain possession and compete in UCL. If he played as an AM or a winger that might be ok, but if his primary talent is scoring goals, it's scary to think how his ratios(and counting stats) will drop if his form dips.
Because you said it's only the goals
No, it's not. He's not directly comparable to players like Soldado because out and out strikers do not play in the same way and do not contribute in the same way.
This guy basically was our attack for most of the season - nevermind finishing off chances presented to him. If he was any better, he'd basically be Lionel Messi. It'd be great if he was that good, but very few are.
Out of interest, what is Cristiano Ronaldo's shots to goals ratio?
I was talking purely in terms of scoring goals.
You don't have to assume every shot is the same.
The stat punishes strikers who take stupid shots.
Player takes 10 shots and scores 1. They're wasteful, regardless of shooting location
If 9 of the shots are from the half way line, he's fucking wasteful and a dick.
The stat shows us not only shot accuracy, but how often they are Squandering possession
If 9 of the shots are from the half way line, he's fucking wasteful and a dick.
The stat shows us not only shot accuracy, but how often they are Squandering possession
I'm not comparing him with Soldado, or Higuain, or any other pure striker directly without taking into account his passing ability. Ronaldo, who has one of the worst ratios around, has a ratio of 6.9, compared to Suarez at 8.13, but had 10 assists to Suarez's 5.
IThere aren't a lot of players you can compare Suarez to, but that really isn't a good reason to completely overlook his poor conversion ratio. Let's not forget that Messi has a conversion ratio of 3.54, and came out with 12 assists in league last season. Suarez would need to literally double his efficiency to come close to those numbers. In terms of quality, you could argue that Suarez is closer to the Higuains of the world than the Messis, despite his moments of brilliance.
Poor old Whirly makes a sensible observation and gets jumped on by the fucking looney tunes.
The rate a striker takes chances is important, I don't understand how anyone can dismiss it as being irrelevant.
The elephant in the room is that Suarez's chance conversion was a lot better last season than the one before - will he continue to score like he did last season it will he become the 1 goal per 12 shots striker he was last season.
As for every goal he scored he takes 90 touches of the ball. He needs way too much opportunity to get 20 goals.
Scoring 20+ is great but if it's at the detriment to the team (who finished in 7th again) it's pointless
The rate a striker takes chances is important, I don't understand how anyone can dismiss it as being irrelevant.
The elephant in the room is that Suarez's chance conversion was a lot better last season than the one before - will he continue to score like he did last season it will he become the 1 goal per 12 shots striker he was last season.
As for every goal he scored he takes 90 touches of the ball. He needs way too much opportunity to get 20 goals.
Scoring 20+ is great but if it's at the detriment to the team (who finished in 7th again) it's pointless
I'm not suggesting that Suarez is in Messi's class - I'm simply suggesting that he's not directly comparable to the Higuains and Soldados of this world.
As for squandering possession, it's a valid argument, but how many games have we seen be decided by a piece of magic by someone like Suarez or Gerrard trying something audacious?
That's the type of thing that is harder to formulate in a single stat. We've seen a ton of games in the last few years where we just weren't going to score until Suarez did something special. So what's better - a player that takes 10 shots to score 1 or a a player that takes 2 shots and the team doesn't score at all?
It's easy to try and paint people into the extremes of one particular argument. For me, there is value in the shots to goals ratio stat, as I've said, but I don't get the need to be quite so bullish about it - you can still refer back to it in the context of a wider discussion rather than refusing point blank to look past it.
As for squandering possession, it's a valid argument, but how many games have we seen be decided by a piece of magic by someone like Suarez or Gerrard trying something audacious?
That's the type of thing that is harder to formulate in a single stat. We've seen a ton of games in the last few years where we just weren't going to score until Suarez did something special. So what's better - a player that takes 10 shots to score 1 or a a player that takes 2 shots and the team doesn't score at all?
It's easy to try and paint people into the extremes of one particular argument. For me, there is value in the shots to goals ratio stat, as I've said, but I don't get the need to be quite so bullish about it - you can still refer back to it in the context of a wider discussion rather than refusing point blank to look past it.
But you've watched Suarez for 2.5 seasons. Compared to an out and out striker, scoring goals is absolutely not his 'primary talent'.
He's a brilliant player that scares the shit out of all oppositions he plays against. Not because he's a fox in a box.
I'd be far more worried about pure strikers that relied solely on positioning and shooting accuracy. What would they offer should their accuracy stat start dropping?
And this comment about Rodgers wanting more goals from other areas. How does that automatically indicate that Suarez isn't clinical enough for us? 30 goals is absolutely fine. Rodgers wants to ADD another 20 goals via the entire team. That's absolutely reasonable. Downing scored fuck all. Hendo scored fuck all. Gerrard scored mostly penalties. Replacing Downing with a 10-12 goal a season player, together with our central midfielders chipping in, along with Sturridge playing a whole season should easily get us 20 extra goals.
And this criticism of Suarez not getting enough assists.. I even saw a stupid article claiming Suarez as shit because he played more key passes than any other top forward yet had fewer assists, due to his team mates' finishing being poor.
He's a prick but he is absolutely world class.
I can't believe Rosco think he's better than Suarez.
If everybody else scores more goals, Suarez is inevitably going to score fewer. Like I said, a lot of his production comes from volume of shots, so adding other options who can shoot, in all likelihood with better accuracy, will just lower the opportunities he gets to run at defenders and shoot. I think we get 20 more goals from everybody else, but around 10 less from Suarez this year. Probably a few more assists though.
You make it sound like everyone else was creating opportunities just for Suarez when they could have easily scored themselves. I think you need to look back at how exactly Suarez played, created and scored for us last season, particularly when the team was clueless in attack for the first 6 months.
Suarez was our attack. If our attacking is much improved this season, as it was in the latter part of last season, he'll have waaaay more opportunities to score, and not just from incredibly difficult positions that he had to create himself in the first place.
He's 28
No one said it (goals per shots) isn't important, it just isn't the whole picture and the fact he gets so many chances is because he's so creative and his movement is excellent, it's not to compensate, it's just his game. It's a fair observation with some important insight into his abilities as a clinical striker, but it's not the complete story of him as a player and how that dilutes his contribution or his threat. He's still just scored 50 odd goals in next to no time, in comparison to some fucking great players, so at the end of the day, the end product is still there. Andy Cole won the league and scored bucket loads for United but wasn't half the player Suarez was and was even more erratic infront of goal, do you think he or the fans gave a fuck?
It's possible that everybody slots in and we get 20 new goals from elsewhere on the pitch in addition to Suarez's 20-25, but I can't see there being enough of the ball to go around for Suarez to get his fill, plus for all the other upgrades we bring in, who are likely accustomed to also getting plenty of the ball, to be content.
firepower. good stuff brendan.
No point in firepower if we don't have the midfield to impose ourselves in a game.
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