Reasons to be Cheerful..

[rurikbird]

That Barca-City game was a perfect illustration of the risks of Guardiola's patented passing from the back strategy. Bravo and Ter Stegen are 2 of the best GKs in the world at this specific style of play, the defenders are all great passers too – but time and time again both Barca and City narrowly avoided disaster by insisting to pass from the back even under a lot of pressure, lots of times they simply gave possession away near their goal and generally spent way too much time and effort passing the ball nervously between the back 4 and the goalkeeper rather than letting their awesome attacking players do what they do best.

I get the value of the playing from the back, but if the opposition commits big numbers forward to disrupt this strategy, I think there should be a reliable plan B. Insisting on playing out from the back even when there are 4 opposing players chasing the ball near the penalty area is hubris to the point of stupidity. I think Klopp as not dogmatic about this as Guardiola and hopefully he will be able to strike a right balance with Karius.

 

[Ryan]

That Barca-City game was a perfect illustration of the risks of Guardiola's patented passing from the back strategy. Bravo and Ter Stegen are 2 of the best GKs in the world at this specific style of play, the defenders are all great passers too – but time and time again both Barca and City narrowly avoided disaster by insisting to pass from the back even under a lot of pressure, lots of times they simply gave possession away near their goal and generally spent way too much time and effort passing the ball nervously between the back 4 and the goalkeeper rather than letting their awesome attacking players do what they do best.

I get the value of the playing from the back, but if the opposition commits big numbers forward to disrupt this strategy, I think there should be a reliable plan B. Insisting on playing out from the back even when there are 4 opposing players chasing the ball near the penalty area is hubris to the point of stupidity. I think Klopp as not dogmatic about this as Guardiola and hopefully he will be able to strike a right balance with Karius.

Agree, but...

In order to be successful playing from your GK - you occasionally have to mix it with a 40-50 yard bullet over the first line to a full-back or wide midfielder - which City didn't do anywhere near enough tonight. If you're continually looking for the short roll-it-to-your-CB option then that's easy to defend cos the opposition can press up. The key is in varying the goalkeeper's distribution rather than playing it out from the back.

Firstly you need a goalkeeper who can ping it perfectly to a full-back's chest - Reina and Bravo are good at that off the top of my head, and secondly you need to do it frequently. If you can do it quickly, then you've beaten the first line and are off on the counter attack - but more significantly, it scares the opposition into committing too many people forward for the press as they're afraid of getting bypassed.

Standing there knocking it to your CB for 90 mins who's standing on the side of your box is fucking suicide for any team.

 

[rurikbird]

Agree, but...

In order to be successful playing from your GK - you occasionally have to mix it with a 40-50 yard bullet over the first line to a full-back or wide midfielder - which City didn't do anywhere near enough tonight. If you're continually looking for the short roll-it-to-your-CB option then that's easy to defend cos the opposition can press up. The key is in varying the goalkeeper's distribution rather than playing it out from the back.

Firstly you need a goalkeeper who can ping it perfectly to a full-back's chest - Reina and Bravo are good at that off the top of my head, and secondly you need to do it frequently. If you can do it quickly, then you've beaten the first line and are off on the counter attack - but more significantly, it scares the opposition into committing too many people forward for the press as they're afraid of getting bypassed.

Standing there knocking it to your CB for 90 mins who's standing on the side of your box is fucking suicide for any team.

Agree completely, and that's exactly what I meant by "plan B". It's just boggles my mind that somebody as pragmatic and detail-oriented as Guardiola wouldn't think of something better than to encourage near-suicidal passes that even when they don't lead to a goal gifted to the opposition directly, infect the whole team with nervousness and uncertainty. On the plus side, he does know how to make life uncomfortable for the other team when they are using this tactic – that's probably why he benched Aguero in favor of De Bruyne as "false 9" and Man City's high press did make Ter Stegen extremely nervous any time he had the ball at his feet.

In the end all of this was for naught because Barca had far better strikers and could score 3 goals even somewhat against run of play. Frankly City deserved to lose just for wearing that horrible kit.

 

[Leo]

Karius was the best young keeper in Germany.. De-Gea was the best young keeper in Spain, no one really talked about the world at that point...

The comparisons are there, given how they both started.. However my point was more about giving the guy a chance to settle.. See how he is after Christmas, then we can start making better judgments..

De Gea broke the premiership transfer record for a goalkeeper so of course he was talked about as being one of the best in the world at the time.

Everyone is going to give him a chance and everyone wants him to succeed.
We're on here to chat shit about players and discuss so we don't need some try hard fanboys that big up every signing as boss to tell us everything is rosy.
It's pure bollix.

 

[manwithnoname]

That Barca-City game was a perfect illustration of the risks of Guardiola's patented passing from the back strategy. Bravo and Ter Stegen are 2 of the best GKs in the world at this specific style of play, the defenders are all great passers too – but time and time again both Barca and City narrowly avoided disaster by insisting to pass from the back even under a lot of pressure, lots of times they simply gave possession away near their goal and generally spent way too much time and effort passing the ball nervously between the back 4 and the goalkeeper rather than letting their awesome attacking players do what they do best.

I get the value of the playing from the back, but if the opposition commits big numbers forward to disrupt this strategy, I think there should be a reliable plan B. Insisting on playing out from the back even when there are 4 opposing players chasing the ball near the penalty area is hubris to the point of stupidity. I think Klopp as not dogmatic about this as Guardiola and hopefully he will be able to strike a right balance with Karius.

Just stick an outfield player in goal.

Maybe that's why Footballing Jesus bought Stones. He's going to perform another miracle and turn an overpriced defender into the first ever footballer/ goalkeeper

He's probably no worse than Bravo (or indeed Klarius) at dealing with high balls. At least he can head them out.

 

[Hansern]

De Gea broke the premiership transfer record for a goalkeeper so of course he was talked about as being one of the best in the world at the time.

Everyone is going to give him a chance and everyone wants him to succeed.
We're on here to chat shit about players and discuss so we don't need some try hard fanboys that big up every signing as boss to tell us everything is rosy.
It's pure bollix.

"Try hard fanboys".. Hahaha! Dont think anyone have said that everything are either rosy or boss.
Just that new signings take time to settle and why make a judgement after 3 games.
Wheter or not he'll be any good remains to be seen.

Rather be a try hard fanboy mind then someone thinking the fee paid for a player reflects his quality.
In other words lets sign more Andy Carrolls and less Matips. Fucking hell.

 

[Frogfish]

I was just recalling while watching the Barca/Man City game that someone on here was certain that we were signing Neymar back in the day.
Which made me a little sad, realizing how ludicrous it is to even think, now or then, that we might be capable of signing a world class player.
But then I remembered we signed a much coveted, world class manager and suddenly life seemed a little brighter

And of course you've forgotten we had an even better player in Suarez !

 

[Frogfish]

In the end all of this was for naught because Barca had far better strikers and could score 3 goals even somewhat against run of play. Frankly City deserved to lose just for wearing that horrible kit.

I love that kit ! And I thought City were actually unlucky not to score a goal or two .. it just didn't fall for them the way it did for Barca .. plus there was Messi of course. What a fucking player.

 

[jexykrodic]

Re: goalies. Three step plan:

1. Keep the ball away from the goalie.
2. Make the goalie throw the ball out 'cos he's got shit feet.
3. Keep the ball away from the goalie.

 

[manwithnoname]

"Try hard fanboys".. Hahaha! Dont think anyone have said that everything are either rosy or boss.
Just that new signings take time to settle and why make a judgement after 3 games.
Wheter or not he'll be any good remains to be seen.

Rather be a try hard fanboy mind then someone thinking the fee paid for a player reflects his quality.
In other words lets sign more Andy Carrolls and less Matips. Fucking hell.

True, but generally the best players cost a relatively high amount of money. We've got far more examples of free signings that were fucking shit than great.

A large number of the best players to ever play for Liverpool cost a fairly significant amount of money (removing the few world class talents that came through our youth teams: Gerrard, Owen, McManaman, Fowler, Carragher).

Suarez, Beardsley, Barnes, Torres, Lawrenson, Dalglish, Rush, Alonso, Mascherano, Hamann.

 

[Hansern]

True, but generally the best players cost a relatively high amount of money. We've got far more examples of free signings that were fucking shit than great.

A large number of the best players to ever play for Liverpool cost a fairly significant amount of money (removing the few world class talents that came through our youth teams: Gerrard, Owen, McManaman, Fowler, Carragher).

Suarez, Beardsley, Barnes, Torres, Lawrenson, Dalglish, Rush, Alonso, Mascherano, Hamann.

That really doesnt change the fact that the fee paid will reflect the quality of the player. There are loads of circumstances that will effect a transfer fee.
Reina, Agger, Coutinho, Kuyt, Finnan - the list goes on with players that werent signed for a high amount of money.
You can even say Sturridge and Alonso.

I'd go the other way in regards to several of our signings done that cost a lot of money:
Glen Johnson, Downing, Robbie Keane, Aquilani, Carroll, Benteke, Balotelli, Markovic etc.

Also, that we have signed more shite free transfers than not are more reflection of poor transfer decisions and scouting.
Not many other top clubs would have gone for Degen, Voronin or Jovanovic. I'll change that to not one top club.

 

[hmmmmm1]

Surely it's not unreasonable to give a player who has played FIVE GAMES for us a little time to settle in? I don't hold out hope that a 5m signing from a mid table German club will be a world beater but to write him off after a few weeks is crazy.

Where did I say I have written him off?

But people do have concerns from the 5 games they have seen him play in.

What is crazy is the hyperbole of these type of posts, where any concerns raised are silenced.

 

[King Binny]

Had a quick look at the league results from last season.

H West Bromwich Drew 2-2
(H Tottenham Not league match)
A Crystal Palace Won 2-1
H Watford Won 2-0
A Southampton Lost 3-2
H Sunderland Drew 2-2
A AFC Bournemouth Won 2-1
H West Ham United Lost 3-0
(A Middlesbrough Not played)
A Everton Drew 1-1
H Stoke Won 4-1

Out of the 9 league matches with corresponding fixtures last season, we picked up 15 pts from a possible 27. Hopefully we'll improve upon them beginning from the WBA match.

 

[Frogfish]

Had a quick look at the league results from last season.

H West Bromwich Drew 2-2
(H Tottenham Not league match)
A Crystal Palace Won 2-1
H Watford Won 2-0
A Southampton Lost 3-2
H Sunderland Drew 2-2
A AFC Bournemouth Won 2-1
H West Ham United Lost 3-0
(A Middlesbrough Not played)
A Everton Drew 1-1
H Stoke Won 4-1

Out of the 9 league matches with corresponding fixtures last season, we picked up 15 pts from a possible 27. Hopefully we'll improve upon them beginning from the WBA match.

Thanks for the work Binny but personally I find it more interesting, or accurate assessment of our progress, to match the results this season against those identical fixtures from last season (substituting newly promoted teams for those relegated). Those fixtures hardly bear any semblance to this as far as difficulty factor goes.

 

[willby]

Skittles vs United. 0-0 after 18min

 

[Gary25]

Some fair points in here, but surprised no one's mentioned the biggest reason to be optimistic which is that we're probably gonna win the league.

Not sure if serious??

 

[Stulikesdrums]

Not sure if serious??

Ryan would never joke about this.

 

[Ryan]

Not sure if serious??

Yeah, unfortunately I'm being serious. We're actually going to win the league.

Y'all better get prepared for it.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Yeah, unfortunately I'm being serious. We're actually going to win the league.

Y'all better get prepared for it.

I'm with Ryan

The title is coming home..

City won't win it, are biggest challengers will be Arsenal..

Boy do they have a Strong squad this season..

Inevitably they will get injuries and fuck it up after Christmas.. They will recover with a strong finish, but fall short..

 

[Gary25]

Yeah, unfortunately I'm being serious. We're actually going to win the league.

Y'all better get prepared for it.

I do genuinely think we've a chance this year. Arsenal could be another dark horse though...I reckon it'll be Wenger's last year and who's to say he won't go out on a high.

 

[Judge Jules]

How often have we said that about them at this time of year though? They have the quality to mount a serious challenge, but then they always have had.

As for us - well, I wouldn't have made us favourites, but we may well be the best value bet out there. I do think we have a real shot at it.

 

[Leo]

Bookies have us as second favourites behind City so to them it will be no shock if we do it.

 

[jexykrodic]

You just know we'll get mugged by the Baggies now.

You's never learn.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

You just know we'll get mugged by the Baggies now.

You's never learn.

This. No one brings a title charge grinding to a halt as spectacularly as Tony Pulis!