Ratings, Benfica (H)

[mark1975]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39729.msg1085525#msg1085525 date=1270819419]
KHL - Agger was solid but he wasn't better than anyone else. I think you know that too. Keni, if I remember correctly, only said that he's not a long term solution to LB ... I don't think he said anything that negative about him.

Re: Lucas and Agendas - there is none. He wasn't great, as Herr "No Agenda" claimed (and has now backed down from the '9'). He was ok which is why he's getting 7s from most posters. I would wait to see how Brendan rates him as he IS Mr. Agenda with Lucas.

Re: Franky - Why the silence when you were asked about Gerrard's assist on Lucas's goal? That's not a 'sublime' pass. He's had a poor season by HIS standards but you make it out as if he's playing at Salif Diao's level.

Lastly, why does Yossi get a 7.5 Mark? I mean, Vlad & I both noted it was probably amongst his best performances as a LW - but that's not saying much. But 7.5? He had one fantastic pass which Kuyt bettered for Torres's assist, but what else?
[/quote]

His drop of the shoulder and turn, before running through their midfield was instrumental in Lucas' goal.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Forgot that - yah, that was important too.

Still though, all his influence comes from the middle it seems. While Gerrard is much better than him, I think our season would have been different had Gerrard assumed the Xabi role (the only player in our team who could probably come close to doing so) and let Yossi play behind Torres.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39729.msg1085537#msg1085537 date=1270819738]
Forgot that - yah, that was important too.

Still though, all his influence comes from the middle it seems. While Gerrard is much better than him, I think our season would have been different had Gerrard assumed the Xabi role (the only player in our team who could probably come close to doing so) and let Yossi play behind Torres.
[/quote]

To be fair, I thought he and Gerrard had been instructed to keep switching last night, it certainly looked like that, or at least with Gerrard given license to roam, he had the sense to come inside when Gerrard drifted to the left. I thought his running on the ball caused them problems anyway, he's had injury issues off and on all season and he always seems to need a few games to get a bit of form going, some players are just like that, Owen was the same.

Of course, it gives Brendan ammunition to remind everyone how 'shit' he supposedly is.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39729.msg1085540#msg1085540 date=1270819851]
Of course, it gives Brendan ammunition to remind everyone how 'shit' he supposedly is.
[/quote]

Brendan really does loves Yossi , he just hates when players prove him wrong and Yossi isn't 'shit'.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39729.msg1085525#msg1085525 date=1270819419]
KHL - Agger was solid but he wasn't better than anyone else. I think you know that too. Keni, if I remember correctly, only said that he's not a long term solution to LB ... I don't think he said anything that negative about him.

Re: Lucas and Agendas - there is none. He wasn't great, as Herr "No Agenda" claimed (and has now backed down from the '9'). He was ok which is why he's getting 7s from most posters. I would wait to see how Brendan rates him as he IS Mr. Agenda with Lucas.

Re: Franky - Why the silence when you were asked about Gerrard's assist on Lucas's goal? That's not a 'sublime' pass. He's had a poor season by HIS standards but you make it out as if he's playing at Salif Diao's level.

Lastly, why does Yossi get a 7.5 Mark? I mean, Vlad & I both noted it was probably amongst his best performances as a LW - but that's not saying much. But 7.5? He had one fantastic pass which Kuyt bettered for Torres's assist, but what else?
[/quote]I havnt 'backed down' from a 9. I thought it was a stellar performance and worthy of a 9.
So pogue mahone motherfucker!!

 

[ILD]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39729.msg1085568#msg1085568 date=1270822860]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39729.msg1085525#msg1085525 date=1270819419]
KHL - Agger was solid but he wasn't better than anyone else. I think you know that too. Keni, if I remember correctly, only said that he's not a long term solution to LB ... I don't think he said anything that negative about him.

Re: Lucas and Agendas - there is none. He wasn't great, as Herr "No Agenda" claimed (and has now backed down from the '9'). He was ok which is why he's getting 7s from most posters. I would wait to see how Brendan rates him as he IS Mr. Agenda with Lucas.

Re: Franky - Why the silence when you were asked about Gerrard's assist on Lucas's goal? That's not a 'sublime' pass. He's had a poor season by HIS standards but you make it out as if he's playing at Salif Diao's level.

Lastly, why does Yossi get a 7.5 Mark? I mean, Vlad & I both noted it was probably amongst his best performances as a LW - but that's not saying much. But 7.5? He had one fantastic pass which Kuyt bettered for Torres's assist, but what else?
[/quote]I havnt 'backed down' from a 9. I thought it was a stellar performance and worthy of a 9.
So pogue mahone motherfucker!!
[/quote]

Haha.

póg mo thóin, I like it Andy.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

[quote author=Carshaltonian link=topic=39729.msg1085465#msg1085465 date=1270814556]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39729.msg1085222#msg1085222 date=1270767554]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39729.msg1085218#msg1085218 date=1270767467]
Reina 7 - solid and commanding

Johnson 6 - not his best performance but stood strong

Carra 8 - marshalled the defence brilliantly, some vital tackles and interceptions

Greek 8 - the big beast never put a foot wrong. takes no shit

Agger 7 - very good considering he was out of position. he dropped a little deep at times but still impressive

Kuyt 9 - tireless throughout. held the ball and used it intelligently. great goal and wonderful assist

Lucas 7 - beautiful goal. be great to see him bomb forward more. some great crunching tackles too

Mascherano 8 - his passing is improving with every game. lovely ball for Torres's goal. another fine display

Benayoun 8 - one of his best performances this season. worked his nuts off and played a part in Torres's 1st goal.

Gerrard 4 - a shadow of his former self. where was the glorious shooting, the classy touches and passes? sad sight 🙁

Torres 8 - far from his best but still give him the ball in and around the box and he's lethal. 2nd goal was vintage Torres.
What a man.
[/quote]

Agenda alert
[/quote]
....like your moronic, brainless agenda against Lucas perhaps?
[/quote]

I haven't got a Lucas agenda. My general stance on him is that he's an average player. He played fine last night, took his goal well but I don't think he was anything extraordinary. Agendas are when people bang on about the same thing over and over and over again as Frank does with regards to Gerrard. If you want to take the time to check my posts concerning Lucas over the last year, I'll think you'll find I hardly mention him at all.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39729.msg1085497#msg1085497 date=1270818047]
[quote author=Carshaltonian link=topic=39729.msg1085465#msg1085465 date=1270814556]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39729.msg1085222#msg1085222 date=1270767554]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39729.msg1085218#msg1085218 date=1270767467]
Reina 7 - solid and commanding

Johnson 6 - not his best performance but stood strong

Carra 8 - marshalled the defence brilliantly, some vital tackles and interceptions

Greek 8 - the big beast never put a foot wrong. takes no shit

Agger 7 - very good considering he was out of position. he dropped a little deep at times but still impressive

Kuyt 9 - tireless throughout. held the ball and used it intelligently. great goal and wonderful assist

Lucas 7 - beautiful goal. be great to see him bomb forward more. some great crunching tackles too

Mascherano 8 - his passing is improving with every game. lovely ball for Torres's goal. another fine display

Benayoun 8 - one of his best performances this season. worked his nuts off and played a part in Torres's 1st goal.

Gerrard 4 - a shadow of his former self. where was the glorious shooting, the classy touches and passes? sad sight 🙁

Torres 8 - far from his best but still give him the ball in and around the box and he's lethal. 2nd goal was vintage Torres.
What a man.
[/quote]

Agenda alert
[/quote]
....like your moronic, brainless agenda against Lucas perhaps?
[/quote]

Well said.
[/quote]

And the same to you what I just said to the other poster.

 

[ILD]

...and even if Sheik did have an agenda against Lucas it would be an agenda against an average player not Steven fucking Gerrard.

Why would anyone want to have an agenda against one of our best players ever? Franklyfrank baffles me with his Gerrard 'hate'.

 

[The Nomad]

I'm with Andy on this one... Lucas was immense last night. Scored one, made another with that block tackle... He wore his heart on his sleeve last night. Yeah he gave away one or two dangerous freekicks around the box, lets not forget that second one was needed, Di Maria was dancing through our defenders like they weren't there.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Mr_V link=topic=39729.msg1085589#msg1085589 date=1270823937]
I'm with Andy on this one... Lucas was immense last night. Scored one, made another with that block tackle... He wore his heart on his sleeve last night. Yeah he gave away one or two dangerous freekicks around the box, lets not forget that second one was needed, Di Maria was dancing through our defenders like they weren't there.


[/quote]

X2

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=ILD link=topic=39729.msg1085575#msg1085575 date=1270823268]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39729.msg1085568#msg1085568 date=1270822860]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39729.msg1085525#msg1085525 date=1270819419]
KHL - Agger was solid but he wasn't better than anyone else. I think you know that too. Keni, if I remember correctly, only said that he's not a long term solution to LB ... I don't think he said anything that negative about him.

Re: Lucas and Agendas - there is none. He wasn't great, as Herr "No Agenda" claimed (and has now backed down from the '9'). He was ok which is why he's getting 7s from most posters. I would wait to see how Brendan rates him as he IS Mr. Agenda with Lucas.

Re: Franky - Why the silence when you were asked about Gerrard's assist on Lucas's goal? That's not a 'sublime' pass. He's had a poor season by HIS standards but you make it out as if he's playing at Salif Diao's level.

Lastly, why does Yossi get a 7.5 Mark? I mean, Vlad & I both noted it was probably amongst his best performances as a LW - but that's not saying much. But 7.5? He had one fantastic pass which Kuyt bettered for Torres's assist, but what else?
[/quote]I havnt 'backed down' from a 9. I thought it was a stellar performance and worthy of a 9.
So pogue mahone motherfucker!!
[/quote]

Haha.

póg mo thóin, I like it Andy.
[/quote]

I guess spelling still doesn't matter - I don't understand it, nor do I give a shit! 🙂

Morse's MOTM thread will settle this.

 

[manwithnoname]

I guess spelling still doesn't matter - I don't understand it, nor do I give a shit! 🙂

Morse's MOTM thread will settle this.

It means "kiss my arse" in Gaelic

And is where the Pogues got their name.

IRISHTRUFAX

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39729.msg1085607#msg1085607 date=1270825967]

I guess spelling still doesn't matter - I don't understand it, nor do I give a shit! 🙂

Morse's MOTM thread will settle this.

It means "kiss my arse" in Gaelic

And is where the Pogues got their name.

IRISHTRUFAX
[/quote]

you've made my weekend. your ratings now please.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39729.msg1085607#msg1085607 date=1270825967]

I guess spelling still doesn't matter - I don't understand it, nor do I give a shit! 🙂

Morse's MOTM thread will settle this.

It means "kiss my arse" in Gaelic

And is where the Pogues got their name.

IRISHTRUFAX
[/quote]As any Gael kno.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39729.msg1085118#msg1085118 date=1270763273]
9 for Lucas? You're off your barnet.
[/quote]

Indeed. Aside from the goal and *that* tackle he was largely average, and occasionally woeful.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39729.msg1085617#msg1085617 date=1270826805]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39729.msg1085118#msg1085118 date=1270763273]
9 for Lucas? You're off your barnet.
[/quote]

Indeed. Aside from the goal and *that* tackle he was largely average, and occasionally woeful.
[/quote]

Like fuck he was. He played a good match.

 

[Oncy]

What a funny game. What funny ratings. What fun.

 

[Delinquent]

By his standards he had a good match, yes. He took his goal very well, and made some important interceptions.

He also squandered several promising attacking positions, and conceded freekicks and possession far too regularly and in very dangerous areas. It was a very mixed bag in all. Certainly not a MOM performance anyway.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39729.msg1085628#msg1085628 date=1270827647]
By his standards he had a good match, yes. He took his goal very well, and made some important interceptions.

He also squandered several promising attacking positions, and conceded freekicks and possession far too regularly and in very dangerous areas. It was a very mixed bag in all. Certainly not a MOM performance anyway.
[/quote]

You young man have an agenda.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39729.msg1085629#msg1085629 date=1270827757]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39729.msg1085628#msg1085628 date=1270827647]
By his standards he had a good match, yes. He took his goal very well, and made some important interceptions.

He also squandered several promising attacking positions, and conceded freekicks and possession far too regularly and in very dangerous areas. It was a very mixed bag in all. Certainly not a MOM performance anyway.
[/quote]

You young man have an agenda.
[/quote]

I think you'll find I've remained quite grounded where Lucas is concerned. I certainly don't knock him for the sake of it. And I'm not saying he didn't have a decent game - overall. I was simply agreeing with Sheik that giving him a 9 out of 10 is extremely generous and he was certainly nowhere near being our MOM.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39729.msg1085629#msg1085629 date=1270827757]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39729.msg1085628#msg1085628 date=1270827647]
By his standards he had a good match, yes. He took his goal very well, and made some important interceptions.

He also squandered several promising attacking positions, and conceded freekicks and possession far too regularly and in very dangerous areas. It was a very mixed bag in all. Certainly not a MOM performance anyway.
[/quote]

You young man have an agenda.
[/quote]No he's just mistaken. Others have agendas.

 

[spider-Neil]

everyone is waiting to see bren's rating for lucas.

c'mon bren let's have it 🙂

*gets popcorn*

 

[keniget]

I'm not sure anyone warranted a 9 in that match to be honest, let alone Lucas. He gets a rough time of things for sure, but it's long since become one of those debates where people often end up trying to make statements (whether they want to or not) about themselves and others as football fans, so it's not worth getting into.

Hopefully next season we'll do something about the midfield and Lucas can either take a step back and relieve a bit of the pressure as a squaddie or move on elsewhere and start afresh.

 

[Avmenon]

That's true though.

You just know when someone's had a bad or excellent game someone will log in here to say 'See, SEE!'

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39729.msg1085628#msg1085628 date=1270827647]
By his standards he had a good match, yes. He took his goal very well, and made some important interceptions.

He also squandered several promising attacking positions, and conceded freekicks and possession far too regularly and in very dangerous areas. It was a very mixed bag in all. Certainly not a MOM performance anyway.
[/quote]

I think that's just wrong on several fronts, Del. As Oncy's, admittedly geeky, investigation demonstrates it is a fallacy to suggest he gave possession away too regularly. To say it happened in dangerous areas is either agenda driven (which I haven't noticed in the past) or just a lazy way of supporting your view point. Nor is it in any way fair to say he squandered promising attacking positions.


As I said to Oncy I think a 9 is too much but you're trying to suggest he only had a good match in comparison to his, supposedly, poor performances previously. It wasn't - it was a good match by a player who managed to be in the right place at the right time and do the right things for three goals; two for us and one that saved us.

He had a very good game; a 9 it wasn't but he was certainly in our top 5 in a match against the form team of Europe where we smacked them 4-1.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=39729.msg1085762#msg1085762 date=1270865531]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39729.msg1085628#msg1085628 date=1270827647]
By his standards he had a good match, yes. He took his goal very well, and made some important interceptions.

He also squandered several promising attacking positions, and conceded freekicks and possession far too regularly and in very dangerous areas. It was a very mixed bag in all. Certainly not a MOM performance anyway.
[/quote]

I think that's just wrong on several fronts, Del. As Oncy's, admittedly geeky, investigation demonstrates it is a fallacy to suggest he gave possession away too regularly. To say it happened in dangerous areas is either agenda driven (which I haven't noticed in the past) or just a lazy way of supporting your view point. Nor is it in any way fair to say he squandered promising attacking positions.


As I said to Oncy I think a 9 is too much but you're trying to suggest he only had a good match in comparison to his, supposedly, poor performances previously. It wasn't - it was a good match by a player who managed to be in the right place at the right time and do the right things for three goals; two for us and one that saved us.

He had a very good game; a 9 it wasn't but he was certainly in our top 5 in a match against the form team of Europe where we smacked them 4-1.
[/quote]

I'm sorry if you don't like it but it's true. He did give away freekicks and concede possession in dangerous areas and he did waste some good attacking positions. I saw it with my own eyes. I watched the game on TV last night just to check I hadn't dreamed it at the match and I stand by my assessment. There are obviously some areas where conceding possession or freekicks is not particularly dangerous and more forgiveable than others. There were several occasions where Lucas lost possession cheaply, be that when we were on the attack, or when we were under pressure. That's a fact. I'm not being lazy or clinging to some stupid agenda.

And neither have I denied the good things he did. I agree that he was in our top five players - which is a roundabout way of saying he was our fifth best player, which is probably about right.

And for the record, I would love to see Lucas succeed here. However, when I judge him I do so by the standards we have come to expect from a Liverpool player. I do not take the apologists angle that some seem to have adopted on here. I realise this is largely a result of the vitriol he has received, but I find it quite ironic that I'm being accused of having an agenda against a player, merely by suggesting that his performance on Thursday was a little less than fantastic and, as has been largely agreed, by no means a MOM one.

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39729.msg1085816#msg1085816 date=1270889884]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=39729.msg1085762#msg1085762 date=1270865531]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39729.msg1085628#msg1085628 date=1270827647]
By his standards he had a good match, yes. He took his goal very well, and made some important interceptions.

He also squandered several promising attacking positions, and conceded freekicks and possession far too regularly and in very dangerous areas. It was a very mixed bag in all. Certainly not a MOM performance anyway.
[/quote]

I think that's just wrong on several fronts, Del. As Oncy's, admittedly geeky, investigation demonstrates it is a fallacy to suggest he gave possession away too regularly. To say it happened in dangerous areas is either agenda driven (which I haven't noticed in the past) or just a lazy way of supporting your view point. Nor is it in any way fair to say he squandered promising attacking positions.


As I said to Oncy I think a 9 is too much but you're trying to suggest he only had a good match in comparison to his, supposedly, poor performances previously. It wasn't - it was a good match by a player who managed to be in the right place at the right time and do the right things for three goals; two for us and one that saved us.

He had a very good game; a 9 it wasn't but he was certainly in our top 5 in a match against the form team of Europe where we smacked them 4-1.
[/quote]

I'm sorry if you don't like it but it's true. He did give away freekicks and concede possession in dangerous areas and he did waste some good attacking positions. I saw it with my own eyes. I watched the game on TV last night just to check I hadn't dreamed it at the match and I stand by my assessment. There are obviously some areas where conceding possession or freekicks is not particularly dangerous and more forgiveable than others. There were several occasions where Lucas lost possession cheaply, be that when we were on the attack, or when we were under pressure. That's a fact. I'm not being lazy or clinging to some stupid agenda.

And neither have I denied the good things he did. I agree that he was in our top five players - which is a roundabout way of saying he was our fifth best player, which is probably about right.

And for the record, I would love to see Lucas succeed here. However, when I judge him I do so by the standards we have come to expect from a Liverpool player. I do not take the apologists angle that some seem to have adopted on here. I realise this is largely a result of the vitriol he has received, but I find it quite ironic that I'm being accused of having an agenda against a player, merely by suggesting that his performance on Thursday was a little less than fantastic and, as has been largely agreed, by no means a MOM one.

[/quote]

Fair enough, Del. I watchd the match for the third time last night and saying he gave away possession and free kicks in dangerous areas must have been deleted from the DVD when I wasn't looking.

If your original post was saying that he was "a little less than fantastic" then I'd agree with you entirely. The point of issue was that your original post came across as a back handed compliment of "he played well in comparison to his usual standard".