Rafa to Juve link denied

[Oncy]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094670#msg1094670 date=1272449580]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38644.msg1094668#msg1094668 date=1272449442]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094613#msg1094613 date=1272445200]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38644.msg1094301#msg1094301 date=1272397825]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094294#msg1094294 date=1272397601]
Wow, the last time I saw Oncey this happy was when we sold Alonso and replaced him with Aquilani

Hopefully this will have a similarly ace outcome
[/quote]I was never happy we sold alonso. Not for one second. Don't let that worry you though.
[/quote]

Oh, right. Maybe I got confused because you posted this in a "Lucas Can Replace Alonso" thread in summer:

"I think he can comfortably replace Alonso.

Im so chuffed that our team hasnt had huge changes this summer this is pretty much the team that ended last year. The team that hammered United 1-4 with only the addition of Johnson, who looks every inch the Liverpool player. We're going into a new season without upheaval, without huge personell or tactical change.
Reina.
Insua.
Skrtel.
Carra.
Johnson.

Mascherano.
Lucas.

Riera.
Gerrard.
Kuyt.

Torres.

Pretty much the team that tore up the league and Europe last year, whats not to be excited about. Lucas can fill in for a few weeks, and im quite happy that Aquilani will have a few weeks of watching the team before he plays, it should give him a really gøod grounding in the team and our league.

Im 'piss my pants' excited"

It's a great thread, but I can understand why some people might be a bit confused when they read it.

[/quote]

Oops.
[/quote]

It's a puzzler all right
[/quote]I havnt claimed that I didn't remain positive after he left. I don't think it will suprise anyone that I thought we would win the league this year.
I said I wasn't happy he left.
Here's my first post from the Xabi thread-

I hope he doesn't go.

My second post-

I really hope Xabi can see how close we are and how he can win things if he stays here.

I only went up to page 23 (it's 181 fucking pages) but I don't believe anywhere at any time did I suggest I was happy he left. As pointed out above, that's all I was saying.
It's hardly that important like but if you want to persue it by all means fill your boots.

 

[Squiggles]

We all need a bit of blind optmisim at times.

Plenty of Oncey's posts often get me, and plenty of others, excited about football when times feel completely shit, which is surely as important as being 'right' all the damn time.

(I don't mean that to sound patronising, you get a lot spot on too)

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38644.msg1094802#msg1094802 date=1272459371]
We all need a bit of blind optmisim at times.

Plenty of Oncey's posts often get me, and plenty of others, excited about football when times feel completely shit, which is surely as important as being 'right' all the damn time.

(I don't mean that to sound patronising, you get a lot spot on too)
[/quote]Thats alright. I getcha.
I am overly positive about new players, I know that. I really try to remain hopeful at all times even if my judgement tells me I ought not. I'm wrong plenty of the time of course (pennant, insua, Lucas etc) but i don't really care. I'd rather sign a player and think (and say) and hope and believe he's going to be hot shit than just assume he's going to be rubbish.
Anyway, I don't really mind Brendan giving me grief from time to time, it just shows he cares.

I can't change who I am so as never to make a mistake on the Internet, and I'll continue to give players the benefit of the doubt when they sign, because I love them JUST because they play c
for my club.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38644.msg1094813#msg1094813 date=1272459831]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38644.msg1094802#msg1094802 date=1272459371]
We all need a bit of blind optmisim at times.

Plenty of Oncey's posts often get me, and plenty of others, excited about football when times feel completely shit, which is surely as important as being 'right' all the damn time.

(I don't mean that to sound patronising, you get a lot spot on too)
[/quote]Thats alright. I getcha.
I am overly positive about new players, I know that. I really try to remain hopeful at all times even if my judgement tells me I ought not. I'm wrong plenty of the time of course (pennant, insua, Lucas etc) but i don't really care. I'd rather sign a player and think (and say) and hope and believe he's going to be hot shit than just assume he's going to be rubbish.
Anyway, I don't really mind Brendan giving me grief from time to time, it just shows he cares.

I can't change who I am so as never to make a mistake on the Internet, and I'll continue to give players the benefit of the doubt when they sign, because I love them JUST because they play c
for my club.
[/quote]

Let's me clear, though, I am directly blaming you for my prediction that we would win the league!

 

[ILD]

I know bringing up old threads is for cunts but this thread is a good read. http://sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=34708.0;all
A good few were under the impression we didn't need Xabi. I was even mocked a bit for calling him our metronome and how he could control our midfield.

 

[ILD]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38644.msg1094748#msg1094748 date=1272455532]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094670#msg1094670 date=1272449580]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38644.msg1094668#msg1094668 date=1272449442]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094613#msg1094613 date=1272445200]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38644.msg1094301#msg1094301 date=1272397825]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094294#msg1094294 date=1272397601]
Wow, the last time I saw Oncey this happy was when we sold Alonso and replaced him with Aquilani

Hopefully this will have a similarly ace outcome
[/quote]I was never happy we sold alonso. Not for one second. Don't let that worry you though.
[/quote]

Oh, right. Maybe I got confused because you posted this in a "Lucas Can Replace Alonso" thread in summer:

"I think he can comfortably replace Alonso.

Im so chuffed that our team hasnt had huge changes this summer this is pretty much the team that ended last year. The team that hammered United 1-4 with only the addition of Johnson, who looks every inch the Liverpool player. We're going into a new season without upheaval, without huge personell or tactical change.
Reina.
Insua.
Skrtel.
Carra.
Johnson.

Mascherano.
Lucas.

Riera.
Gerrard.
Kuyt.

Torres.

Pretty much the team that tore up the league and Europe last year, whats not to be excited about. Lucas can fill in for a few weeks, and im quite happy that Aquilani will have a few weeks of watching the team before he plays, it should give him a really gøod grounding in the team and our league.

Im 'piss my pants' excited"

It's a great thread, but I can understand why some people might be a bit confused when they read it.

[/quote]

Oops.
[/quote]

It's a puzzler all right
[/quote]I havnt claimed that I didn't remain positive after he left. I don't think it will suprise anyone that I thought we would win the league this year.
I said I wasn't happy he left.
Here's my first post from the Xabi thread-

I hope he doesn't go.

My second post-

I really hope Xabi can see how close we are and how he can win things if he stays here.

I only went up to page 23 (it's 181 fucking pages) but I don't believe anywhere at any time did I suggest I was happy he left. As pointed out above, that's all I was saying.
It's hardly that important like but if you want to persue it by all means fill your boots.
[/quote]

True. I don't think you were happy he was leaving but you did undervalue his role for us. We had a few pages of a debate after you posted this, (in the thread in my previous post) but itsallgood brother.

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.

 

[Wilko7]

Benitez free to pursue potential Juve move

By Sam Wallace and Mark Fleming


Wednesday, 28 April 2010
Benitez has been linked with a switch to Juventus for some time


The attitude of the Liverpool hierarchy towards Rafael Benitez is that they will not stand in his way if the well-trailed offer from Juventus is finally put to their Spanish manager, but both parties regard that situation as still a long way off.


The pressure has been building this week, with more leaks from Italy suggesting that Benitez, who has four years left to run on his Liverpool contract, will be the subject of a £16m, four-year deal from the Italian club. While the Italians are not yet near to putting a formal request to Liverpool there is the sense that the move will speed up over the next few weeks.

Senior figures at Liverpool have indicated that – unlike in the past when Benitez has parlayed his popularity with the fans into improved contracts and greater influence at the club – this will not be the case should Juventus's offer turn out to be genuine.

Related articles
Lopez confident ahead of Liverpool clash
Liverpool complete Shelvey deal
Search the news archive for more stories
Benitez was in a much stronger position in March last year when he signed his existing deal at Liverpool – a four-year extension to 2014. With the club's American co-owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks desperate to keep some semblance of stability to attract potential buyers, Benitez was regarded as untouchable 11 months ago.

His agent, Manuel Garcia Quilon, is considered by the club as a prime mover in the attempts to broker an agreement with Juventus, although not everyone in English football is really convinced that they have the resources to complete the deal. It is likely that there will be some interest from Real Madrid in Benitez this summer, although the Juventus president, Jean-Claude Blanc, would push for a quick answer should the club put together an acceptable deal.

Benitez is still planning for next season with Liverpool, having expressed an interest in Rafael van der Vaart of Real Madrid. The 18-year-old Charlton midfielder Jonjo Shelvey also had a medical at the club yesterday before a possible £1.7m move to Anfield. Shelvey first came to prominence during the Addicks unsuccessful fight against relegation from the Championship last season and last summer was reported to have turned down a move to Chelsea.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=ILD link=topic=38644.msg1094821#msg1094821 date=1272460340]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38644.msg1094748#msg1094748 date=1272455532]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094670#msg1094670 date=1272449580]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38644.msg1094668#msg1094668 date=1272449442]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094613#msg1094613 date=1272445200]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38644.msg1094301#msg1094301 date=1272397825]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094294#msg1094294 date=1272397601]
Wow, the last time I saw Oncey this happy was when we sold Alonso and replaced him with Aquilani

Hopefully this will have a similarly ace outcome
[/quote]I was never happy we sold alonso. Not for one second. Don't let that worry you though.
[/quote]

Oh, right. Maybe I got confused because you posted this in a "Lucas Can Replace Alonso" thread in summer:

"I think he can comfortably replace Alonso.

Im so chuffed that our team hasnt had huge changes this summer this is pretty much the team that ended last year. The team that hammered United 1-4 with only the addition of Johnson, who looks every inch the Liverpool player. We're going into a new season without upheaval, without huge personell or tactical change.
Reina.
Insua.
Skrtel.
Carra.
Johnson.

Mascherano.
Lucas.

Riera.
Gerrard.
Kuyt.

Torres.

Pretty much the team that tore up the league and Europe last year, whats not to be excited about. Lucas can fill in for a few weeks, and im quite happy that Aquilani will have a few weeks of watching the team before he plays, it should give him a really gøod grounding in the team and our league.

Im 'piss my pants' excited"

It's a great thread, but I can understand why some people might be a bit confused when they read it.

[/quote]

Oops.
[/quote]

It's a puzzler all right
[/quote]I havnt claimed that I didn't remain positive after he left. I don't think it will suprise anyone that I thought we would win the league this year.
I said I wasn't happy he left.
Here's my first post from the Xabi thread-

I hope he doesn't go.

My second post-

I really hope Xabi can see how close we are and how he can win things if he stays here.

I only went up to page 23 (it's 181 fucking pages) but I don't believe anywhere at any time did I suggest I was happy he left. As pointed out above, that's all I was saying.
It's hardly that important like but if you want to persue it by all means fill your boots.
[/quote]

True. I don't think you were happy he was leaving but you did undervalue his role for us. We had a few pages of a debate after you posted this, (in the thread in my previous post) but itsallgood brother.

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.
[/quote]Yeah. I remember the debate. I stand by what I said generally. He's been average at best in Madrid getting dropped for Guti for much of the early part of the season. Where I was obviously wrong was that it wouldn't affect us. Clearly it did but that's as much down to Lucas not being very good and Rafa refusing to play Aquilani.
For sure if Xabi was here we wouldn't be languishing in 7th.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=ILD link=topic=38644.msg1094819#msg1094819 date=1272460170]
I know bringing up old threads is for cunts but this thread is a good read. http://sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=34708.0;all
A good few were under the impression we didn't need Xabi. I was even mocked a bit for calling him our metronome and how he could control our midfield.


[/quote]

fucking hell, a lot of the stuff I said prophetically came to pass, actually stratch that, it's not exactly rocket science to predict we'd struggle to replace alonso.
oncey seemed to think it would be a piece of piss, hindsight is 20/20.
I said it then and I'll say it now replacing someone like masher is infinately easier than replacing someone like alonso.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=ILD link=topic=38644.msg1094821#msg1094821 date=1272460340]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38644.msg1094748#msg1094748 date=1272455532]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094670#msg1094670 date=1272449580]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38644.msg1094668#msg1094668 date=1272449442]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094613#msg1094613 date=1272445200]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38644.msg1094301#msg1094301 date=1272397825]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094294#msg1094294 date=1272397601]
Wow, the last time I saw Oncey this happy was when we sold Alonso and replaced him with Aquilani

Hopefully this will have a similarly ace outcome
[/quote]I was never happy we sold alonso. Not for one second. Don't let that worry you though.
[/quote]

Oh, right. Maybe I got confused because you posted this in a "Lucas Can Replace Alonso" thread in summer:

"I think he can comfortably replace Alonso.

Im so chuffed that our team hasnt had huge changes this summer this is pretty much the team that ended last year. The team that hammered United 1-4 with only the addition of Johnson, who looks every inch the Liverpool player. We're going into a new season without upheaval, without huge personell or tactical change.
Reina.
Insua.
Skrtel.
Carra.
Johnson.

Mascherano.
Lucas.

Riera.
Gerrard.
Kuyt.

Torres.

Pretty much the team that tore up the league and Europe last year, whats not to be excited about. Lucas can fill in for a few weeks, and im quite happy that Aquilani will have a few weeks of watching the team before he plays, it should give him a really gøod grounding in the team and our league.

Im 'piss my pants' excited"

It's a great thread, but I can understand why some people might be a bit confused when they read it.

[/quote]

Oops.
[/quote]

It's a puzzler all right
[/quote]I havnt claimed that I didn't remain positive after he left. I don't think it will suprise anyone that I thought we would win the league this year.
I said I wasn't happy he left.
Here's my first post from the Xabi thread-

I hope he doesn't go.

My second post-

I really hope Xabi can see how close we are and how he can win things if he stays here.

I only went up to page 23 (it's 181 fucking pages) but I don't believe anywhere at any time did I suggest I was happy he left. As pointed out above, that's all I was saying.
It's hardly that important like but if you want to persue it by all means fill your boots.
[/quote]

True. I don't think you were happy he was leaving but you did undervalue his role for us. We had a few pages of a debate after you posted this, (in the thread in my previous post) but itsallgood brother.

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.
[/quote]

ha ha good old oncey, I think deep down he knew we were fucked if alonso left but was in denial.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38644.msg1094845#msg1094845 date=1272462695]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=38644.msg1094819#msg1094819 date=1272460170]
I know bringing up old threads is for cunts but this thread is a good read. http://sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=34708.0;all
A good few were under the impression we didn't need Xabi. I was even mocked a bit for calling him our metronome and how he could control our midfield.


[/quote]

fucking hell, a lot of the stuff I said prophetically came to pass, actually stratch that, it's not exactly rocket science to predict we'd struggle to replace alonso.
oncey seemed to think it would be a piece of piss, hindsight is 20/20.
I said it then and I'll say it now replacing someone like masher is infinately easier than replacing someone like alonso.
[/quote]It would be a piece of piss. That's not to suggest we did it very well, but the suggestion that because Lucas isn't very good and Aquilani not trusted somehow evidences that Xabi was/is irreplaceable is frankly silly.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38644.msg1094851#msg1094851 date=1272462969]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38644.msg1094845#msg1094845 date=1272462695]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=38644.msg1094819#msg1094819 date=1272460170]
I know bringing up old threads is for cunts but this thread is a good read. http://sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=34708.0;all
A good few were under the impression we didn't need Xabi. I was even mocked a bit for calling him our metronome and how he could control our midfield.


[/quote]

fucking hell, a lot of the stuff I said prophetically came to pass, actually stratch that, it's not exactly rocket science to predict we'd struggle to replace alonso.
oncey seemed to think it would be a piece of piss, hindsight is 20/20.
I said it then and I'll say it now replacing someone like masher is infinately easier than replacing someone like alonso.
[/quote]It would be a piece of piss. That's not to suggest we did it very well, but the suggestion that because Lucas isn't very good and Aquilani not trusted somehow evidences that Xabi was/is irreplaceable is frankly silly.

[/quote]

rafa should have done the following

a) bought a player who as mirrored alonso's attributes as closely as possible

b) changed the formation to get the players out of the players at his disposal.

with 'b' he could easily have shifted gerrard back into midfield kuyt upfront and used someone else at right midfield. using lucas and expecting him to fill xabi's boots was daft and we seriously paid the price. having said that the form that gerrard was in last season I can see why rafa was reluctant to shift him from the forward position.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Rafa committed to Reds
Reds boss planning for long-term
Last updated: 28th April 2010


Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez insists he is committed to the club and is frustrated at rumours over his future.

Benitez's position at Anfield has been the subject of intense speculation in recent weeks with Italian giants Juventus strongly linked with a move for his services.

The Spaniard, who is preparing for Thursday's Europa clash with Atletico Madrid, is annoyed with the constant speculation over his Liverpool future and claims the signing of Charlton youngster Jonjo Shelvey proves his long-term planning for the club.

"I don't like [the rumours]," said Benitez.

"I would like to see news in the press about trophies, or goals or fantastic performances about players but you cannot control everything.

"My future is Atletico Madrid. We have to concentrate on this game and try to win because it is the best for the club."

Signings
Benitez is happy with the signing of Shelvey and admits he has other young British talent lined up to bring in at Anfield.

"But we have been working for years; I was trying to sign Gareth Barry before and Glen Johnson was the same idea - we were trying to bring in British players with passion," added Benitez.

"Players who could feel what Liverpool means for them. Shelvey is one of these and we have two or three names ready so we will try to do the best for the club.

"We have this long-term plan in place and we will try to follow the plan."

 

[Oncy]

"I would like to see news in the press about trophies, or goals or fantastic performances about players but you cannot control everything.

Hahahahaha.
*cries*

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38644.msg1094857#msg1094857 date=1272463349]


"Players who could feel what Liverpool means for them. Shelvey is one of these and we have two or three names ready



[/quote]

would love to see those names

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38644.msg1094859#msg1094859 date=1272463551]

"I would like to see news in the press about trophies, or goals or fantastic performances about players but you cannot control everything.

Hahahahaha.
*cries*
[/quote]

ha ha that jumped out to me as well.

 

[LarryHagman]

"My future is Atletico Madrid".

Nice one. See ya.

 

[ILD]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38644.msg1094843#msg1094843 date=1272462554]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=38644.msg1094821#msg1094821 date=1272460340]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38644.msg1094748#msg1094748 date=1272455532]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094670#msg1094670 date=1272449580]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38644.msg1094668#msg1094668 date=1272449442]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094613#msg1094613 date=1272445200]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38644.msg1094301#msg1094301 date=1272397825]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094294#msg1094294 date=1272397601]
Wow, the last time I saw Oncey this happy was when we sold Alonso and replaced him with Aquilani

Hopefully this will have a similarly ace outcome
[/quote]I was never happy we sold alonso. Not for one second. Don't let that worry you though.
[/quote]

Oh, right. Maybe I got confused because you posted this in a "Lucas Can Replace Alonso" thread in summer:

"I think he can comfortably replace Alonso.

Im so chuffed that our team hasnt had huge changes this summer this is pretty much the team that ended last year. The team that hammered United 1-4 with only the addition of Johnson, who looks every inch the Liverpool player. We're going into a new season without upheaval, without huge personell or tactical change.
Reina.
Insua.
Skrtel.
Carra.
Johnson.

Mascherano.
Lucas.

Riera.
Gerrard.
Kuyt.

Torres.

Pretty much the team that tore up the league and Europe last year, whats not to be excited about. Lucas can fill in for a few weeks, and im quite happy that Aquilani will have a few weeks of watching the team before he plays, it should give him a really gøod grounding in the team and our league.

Im 'piss my pants' excited"

It's a great thread, but I can understand why some people might be a bit confused when they read it.

[/quote]

Oops.
[/quote]

It's a puzzler all right
[/quote]I havnt claimed that I didn't remain positive after he left. I don't think it will suprise anyone that I thought we would win the league this year.
I said I wasn't happy he left.
Here's my first post from the Xabi thread-

I hope he doesn't go.

My second post-

I really hope Xabi can see how close we are and how he can win things if he stays here.

I only went up to page 23 (it's 181 fucking pages) but I don't believe anywhere at any time did I suggest I was happy he left. As pointed out above, that's all I was saying.
It's hardly that important like but if you want to persue it by all means fill your boots.
[/quote]

True. I don't think you were happy he was leaving but you did undervalue his role for us. We had a few pages of a debate after you posted this, (in the thread in my previous post) but itsallgood brother.

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.
[/quote]Yeah. I remember the debate. I stand by what I said generally. He's been average at best in Madrid getting dropped for Guti for much of the early part of the season. Where I was obviously wrong was that it wouldn't affect us. Clearly it did but that's as much down to Lucas not being very good and Rafa refusing to play Aquilani.
For sure if Xabi was here we wouldn't be languishing in 7th.

[/quote]

It's irrelevant how he's playing for Madrid. He was pivotal for us. I agree we didn't replace him properly and blame lies with the manager.

 

[Squiggles]

"I would like to see news in the press about trophies, or goals or fantastic performances about players but you cannot control everything. Wouldn't we all, Rafa.

 

[TheBunnyman]

Surely nobody still believes he's going to stay after this (from the Guardian):

Rafael Benítez remains torn over whether to end his six-year reign at Liverpool despite increasing confidence at Juventus that he will become their coach at the end of this season. The Liverpool manager's dilemma was illustrated yesterday with an admission that he would have left Anfield last year but for his relationship with the club's supporters.

Benítez again refused to commit his future to Liverpool following Thursday's Europa League semi-final exit against Atlético Madrid and sources close to the new Juventus president, Andrea Agnelli, claim a deal to take the Spaniard to Turin is almost complete. Agnelli is pressing Benítez for an answer as he prepares to launch his ambitious project for the club and the prolonged wait for investment at Anfield is pushing his preferred candidate towards Italy.

Benítez would prefer to remain on Merseyside under a new ownership structure but has yet to see firm evidence that Tom Hicks and George Gillett, the Anfield co-owners, have found a buyer willing to meet their asking price. Benítez said this week he had received no direct assurances over his future from the Anfield hierarchy, who would avoid having to find a £16m payoff should their manager accept the offer from Juventus. But he refused to give any assurances of his own to the supporters who chanted his name during the exit on away goals to Atlético.

"If I am here it is because of those fans," he said, when pressed to give supporters clarification on his future. "I have had massive offers over the last year and I decided to stay because of the fans. It's been a very disappointing season because we couldn't achieve what we were expected to, and still I'm here and I will do my best until the end."

He added: "The fans are the main thing, the best thing, that the club has. For one year, I have been working very hard, trying to do my best, and we will see what happens in the future because [the game against] Chelsea is the future now."

The Aston Villa manager, Martin O'Neill, would be a strong contender to replace Benítez, who in recent weeks has not disguised the fact that he has lost patience with the Liverpool regime. Without a sudden development in the takeover search, it is likely tomorrow's league game with Chelsea will be his last as Liverpool manager at Anfield.

Benítez's reticence on his future was evident in his exchanges with reporters:

Q You said you wanted assurances. Do the fans not deserve clarification the same as you?

A At the moment I cannot talk about the future long term because I think we have to focus on the games we have left.

Q Is that because you don't know what the future is for you?

A I know the future very well and it is Chelsea, that's it.

Q Do you want to be here next season?

A I want to win against Chelsea and then Hull, that's it.

Q In an ideal world where would you find yourself next season?

A I will not talk too much about an ideal world. The situation is the situation that we have and Chelsea is the target.

Q Juventus are saying you will be there next season. Are they wrong?

A I am here now and hopefully I will be here on Sunday against Chelsea.

Carlo Ancelotti, the former Juventus coach now in charge of Chelsea, said Benítez would be tailor-made for Italian football: "I'm sure he would be a success. Tactically, he has fantastic experience. His teams are tactically very, very good and so, in Italy, he would not have a problem. Benítez is one of the most important coaches and maybe Juventus will think to bring him to Turin but I don't know what will happen."

 

[Farkmaster]

If Rafa leaves, he'll have fucking broken my heart, but not because he deserves to stay performance wise.

I always thought that Rafa was manipulating the situation because in the power vacuum created by our feuding owners, it was good to have a strong figure dictating team policy, and demanding what was required.

If he goes, the situation is that the vast majority of that was just him leveraging things for his own best interest, which was only coincidentally that of the club.

If that's the case, that simply wasn't the case with Houllier, and I'll see them as two very very different figures in terms of their love for the club many times.

I'm sad.

 

[Judge Jules]

Sorry but I think that's a false distinction, and this kind of criticism of Rafa if he now leaves is genuinely baffling to me.

It's quite true that, despite the way Houllier's regime curdled in his latter two seasons, his love for the club was never in doubt. However, you were right the first time about Rafa who, his mistakes elsewhere notwithstanding, has tackled the hopeless drift behind the scenes at the club in a way which has needed doing for many years. I'm not naive enough to imagine that, if he leaves now, his own interests will not have played a major part in that decision, but I simply don't accept it follows that that means he's been looking out only for himself all along as you suggest. His love for the club and the city are as plain as Houllier's and don't deserve this kind of impeachment.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38644.msg1097110#msg1097110 date=1272703440]
Sorry but I think that's a false distinction, and this kind of criticism of Rafa if he now leaves is genuinely baffling to me.

It's quite true that, despite the way Houllier's regime curdled in his latter two seasons, his love for the club was never in doubt. However, you were right the first time about Rafa who, his mistakes elsewhere notwithstanding, has tackled the hopeless drift behind the scenes at the club in a way which has needed doing for many years. I'm not naive enough to imagine that, if he leaves now, his own interests will not have played a major part in that decision, but I simply don't accept it follows that that means he's been looking out only for himself all along as you suggest. His love for the club and the city are as plain as Houllier's and don't deserve this kind of impeachment.
[/quote]

I tend to agree with Fark rather than you here JJ, but it also has to be admitted that Rafa's stock as a manager is much much higher than Houllier's ever was. When Houllier was sacked, there wasn't exactly a rush of other clubs trying to sign him up. Rafa, like it or not, has Juventus and possibly Real Madrid after him.

On the whole, though, I'm beginning to think that Rosco was right all along about him: ie he's a sneaky, selfish cunt.

 

[Judge Jules]

As opposed to the kind of selfish cnut who ordered club staff into Melwood on Christmas Day to prepare lunch for him and his family? Because it was GH who did that, not Rafa. Nobody's perfect, in their job or otherwise, I know that. The idea that that's all Rafa ever was, though, seems utterly baseless to me.

 

[TheBunnyman]

I'm not idolising Houllier either. I hated the way he froze certain players out, refused to play others, and I particularly hated all those excuses and 'we've turned the corner's towards the end.

Between the two, I would consider Rafa the better manager. But I do think Houllier was more genuine in his love for the club.

Then again, give me a better manager over a club-loving loser any day. The problem was that Rafa was never *quite* good enough.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

If he was looking out for himself, wouldn't he wait until he got sacked?

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38644.msg1097142#msg1097142 date=1272706848]
If he was looking out for himself, wouldn't he wait until he got sacked?
[/quote]

You don't think Juve are pressuring him to make a decision? If he delays too long, he risks losing that opportunity. Plus he knows perfectly well that Liverpool can't afford to sack him.

 

[Hansern]

He's using the club as a bargaining tool, as he has in the past. It's dirty play and not fitting for a Liverpool manager.

I hope Juve gets him, and we get Jose. Then Optimism alone would make this summer a fucking excellent one.

 

[the_khl]

I'm as fed up with some of Rafa's decisions now and then as the next man but believe me no-one would've made great progress over the past 1½ year having to cash in £12M on players instead of actully getting the backing to improve.

You can all try to convince yourself it had been much better with someone else at the helm but it hadn't. Money rules and as Rafa hasn't had any to spend from in the past three windows it's been an uphill task.

I've asked the question before and will do it again:

Which players would you've bought last Summer on the given budget - loosing the likes of Alonso, Arbeloa and Sami? Even with the knowledge of hindsight you'll struggle to make us a much stronger team.

 

[Terrier]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=38644.msg1097152#msg1097152 date=1272707330]
I'm as fed up with some of Rafa's decisions now and then as the next man but believe me no-one would've made great progress over the past 1½ year having to cash in £12M on players instead of actully getting the backing to improve.

You can all try to convince yourself it had been much better with someone else at the helm but it hadn't. Money rules and as Rafa hasn't had any to spend from in the past three windows it's been an uphill task.

I've asked the question before and will do it again:

Which players would you've bought last Summer on the given budget - loosing the likes of Alonso, Arbeloa and Sami? Even with the knowledge of hindsight you'll struggle to make us a much stronger team.
[/quote]



In the last 3 windows he spent around 50m.