Rafa slams LFC board

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41990.msg1179509#msg1179509 date=1285098860]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41990.msg1179508#msg1179508 date=1285098634]
Peter, Farky...

Did you lot not watch last season..? Sunderland away? Portsmouth away? Our European Cup group games? Fulham away? Both Reading games? Last season was an utter disgrace.

And the seasons before that..? In 08/09, for a good half of the season, watching us made my eyes bleed. And the season before that, we all complained about the negative, unadventerous tactics.

Jesus, lads - I get that you dissagree with me, but let's not pretend things are any worse (style-wise) than they've been for much of the past three years. They're not.
[/quote]

Premier League League table for the 2008-2009 season
# Team P W D L F A W D L F A GD Pts
1 Man Utd 38 16 2 1 43 13 12 4 3 25 11 44 90
2 LFC 38 12 7 0 41 13 13 4 2 36 14 50 86
3 Chelsea 38 11 6 2 33 12 14 2 3 35 12 44 83
4 Arsenal 38 11 5 3 31 16 9 7 3 37 21 31 72
5 Everton 38 8 6 5 31 20 9 6 4 24 17 18 63
6 Aston Villa 38 7 9 3 27 21 10 2 7 27 27 6 62
7 Fulham 38 11 3 5 28 16 3 8 8 11 18 5 53
8 Tottenham 38 10 5 4 21 10 4 4 11 24 35 0 51
9 West Ham 38 9 2 8 23 22 5 7 7 19 23 -3 51
10 Man City 38 13 0 6 40 18 2 5 12 18 32 8 50
11 Wigan Ath. 38 8 5 6 17 18 4 4 11 17 27 -11 45
12 Stoke 38 10 5 4 22 15 2 4 13 16 40 -17 45
13 Bolton 38 7 5 7 21 21 4 3 12 20 32 -12 41
14 Portsmouth 38 8 3 8 26 29 2 8 9 12 28 -19 41
15 Blackburn 38 6 7 6 22 23 4 4 11 18 37 -20 41
16 Sunderland 38 6 3 10 21 25 3 6 10 13 29 -20 36
17 Hull City 38 3 5 11 18 36 5 6 8 21 28 -25 35
18 Newcastle 38 5 7 7 24 29 2 6 11 16 30 -19 34
19 Middlesbrough 38 5 9 5 17 20 2 2 15 11 37 -29 32
20 WBA 38 7 3 9 26 33 1 5 13 10 34 -31 32


[/quote]

For the love of God, man... That table doesn't mean that we played Brazilain 1970s football to get there.

For much of September through January, we were abhorent to watch. Then we played good football the rest of the way, which I've already acknowledged.

Oh, and if you're going to throw a league table at me, don't use one that we should have ended up topping, but failed to do so, because of our manager's fear to go out and attack the likes of Hull and Fulham and Stoke and West Ham and a ten-man Arsenal.... That simply proves my point. For much of that season, we played bad, defensive, risk-free, 'don't-lose' football, and got what we ultimately deserved.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41990.msg1179516#msg1179516 date=1285099148]
Yet Chelsea won the title last Season with........ 86 points.

[/quote]

And that bears absolutely no relevance when discussing the previous season's league table...

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41990.msg1179508#msg1179508 date=1285098634]
Peter, Farky...

Did you lot not watch last season..? Sunderland away? Portsmouth away? Our European Cup group games? Fulham away? Both Reading games? Last season was an utter disgrace.

And the seasons before that..? In 08/09, for a good half of the season, watching us made my eyes bleed. And the season before that, we all complained about the negative, unadventerous tactics.

Jesus, lads - I get that you dissagree with me, but let's not pretend things are any worse (style-wise) than they've been for much of the past three years. They're not. The fact that we were more succsessful then seems to make folks forget that our football was awful to watch.
[/quote]



i guess it's just a matter of opinion. in general i thought our style under rafa was about 'OK', better than houllier's, worse than evans's.

for what it's worth though, i think 08 & 09 were probably our 2 most 'stylish' seasons under him. torres and gerrard were on fire after xmas 07, and that greatly helped matters, and the whole team often played some some good stuff in 08/09.

as so far this year we've been just as terrible to watch as last season, i stand by wat i said before.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41990.msg1179519#msg1179519 date=1285099228]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41990.msg1179509#msg1179509 date=1285098860]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41990.msg1179508#msg1179508 date=1285098634]
Peter, Farky...

Did you lot not watch last season..? Sunderland away? Portsmouth away? Our European Cup group games? Fulham away? Both Reading games? Last season was an utter disgrace.

And the seasons before that..? In 08/09, for a good half of the season, watching us made my eyes bleed. And the season before that, we all complained about the negative, unadventerous tactics.

Jesus, lads - I get that you dissagree with me, but let's not pretend things are any worse (style-wise) than they've been for much of the past three years. They're not.
[/quote]

Premier League League table for the 2008-2009 season
# Team P W D L F A W D L F A GD Pts
1 Man Utd 38 16 2 1 43 13 12 4 3 25 11 44 90
2 LFC 38 12 7 0 41 13 13 4 2 36 14 50 86
3 Chelsea 38 11 6 2 33 12 14 2 3 35 12 44 83
4 Arsenal 38 11 5 3 31 16 9 7 3 37 21 31 72
5 Everton 38 8 6 5 31 20 9 6 4 24 17 18 63
6 Aston Villa 38 7 9 3 27 21 10 2 7 27 27 6 62
7 Fulham 38 11 3 5 28 16 3 8 8 11 18 5 53
8 Tottenham 38 10 5 4 21 10 4 4 11 24 35 0 51
9 West Ham 38 9 2 8 23 22 5 7 7 19 23 -3 51
10 Man City 38 13 0 6 40 18 2 5 12 18 32 8 50
11 Wigan Ath. 38 8 5 6 17 18 4 4 11 17 27 -11 45
12 Stoke 38 10 5 4 22 15 2 4 13 16 40 -17 45
13 Bolton 38 7 5 7 21 21 4 3 12 20 32 -12 41
14 Portsmouth 38 8 3 8 26 29 2 8 9 12 28 -19 41
15 Blackburn 38 6 7 6 22 23 4 4 11 18 37 -20 41
16 Sunderland 38 6 3 10 21 25 3 6 10 13 29 -20 36
17 Hull City 38 3 5 11 18 36 5 6 8 21 28 -25 35
18 Newcastle 38 5 7 7 24 29 2 6 11 16 30 -19 34
19 Middlesbrough 38 5 9 5 17 20 2 2 15 11 37 -29 32
20 WBA 38 7 3 9 26 33 1 5 13 10 34 -31 32


[/quote]

For the love of God, man... That table doesn't mean that we played Brazilain 1970s football to get there.

For much of September through January, we were abhorent to watch. Then we played good football the rest of the way, which I've already acknowledged.

Oh, and if you're going to throw a league table at me, don't use one that we should have ended up topping, but failed to do so, because of our manager's fear to go out and attack the likes of Hull and Fulham and Stoke and West Ham and a ten-man Arsenal.... That simply proves my point. For much of that season, we played bad, defensive, risk-free, 'don't-lose' football, and got what we ultimately deserved.
[/quote]


That was our BEST SEASON since we won the League in 1990.

Give me 'bad, defensive, risk-free, 'don't-lose' football' every fucking Season if thats the least we get!

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41990.msg1179522#msg1179522 date=1285099532]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41990.msg1179508#msg1179508 date=1285098634]
Peter, Farky...

Did you lot not watch last season..? Sunderland away? Portsmouth away? Our European Cup group games? Fulham away? Both Reading games? Last season was an utter disgrace.

And the seasons before that..? In 08/09, for a good half of the season, watching us made my eyes bleed. And the season before that, we all complained about the negative, unadventerous tactics.

Jesus, lads - I get that you dissagree with me, but let's not pretend things are any worse (style-wise) than they've been for much of the past three years. They're not. The fact that we were more succsessful then seems to make folks forget that our football was awful to watch.
[/quote]



i guess it's just a matter of opinion. in general i thought our style under rafa was about 'OK', better than houllier's, worse than evans's. Fair enough. I think I agree with that.

for what it's worth though, i think 08 & 09 were probably our 2 most 'stylish' seasons under him. torres and gerrard were on fire after xmas 07, and that greatly helped matters, and the whole team often played some some good stuff in 08/09. I think that we looked very good from Feb '09 until the end of the season, but remember being very frustrated at the brand of football we had been playing for a loooong time before that

as so far this year we've been just as terrible to watch as last season, i stand by wat i said before.
[/quote]

I disagree about this year, Citeh aside.

We were decent against Arsenal, played well in patches against united, and were no worse than last season against WBA or Birmingham. Not much better, I'll grant you, but no worse.

And I still think we need to be more patient and wait until around Christmas before judging too harshly... It's been a bastard of a start to the season.

 

[rootkit]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41990.msg1179507#msg1179507 date=1285098530]
This the same rafa who wanted total control over the first team? Total control over the reserves? Total control over the academy? Total control over transfers?
[/quote]

Firstly, some of that was self evidently his job whilst other parts are not strictly correct. Reserves/Academy were (and still are under Roy Hodgson) delegated to the likes of John McMahon, Jose Segura and Rodolpho Borrell (if you're not sure who he is, look into his CV). Unless you can tell me otherwise, this is normal leadership - you delegate day to day responsibility to others whilst retaining responsibility for the strategy they implement.

Anyway, back to the point and ignoring the red-herring about being a control freak, what is your opinion on the rest of my post you quoted? Are there no concerns at board level? As we've established, there are no qualified football administrators at the club and Hodgson is a 63 year old who, by his own admission, is there to coach players.

Fabio, who is at the steering wheel?

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41990.msg1179525#msg1179525 date=1285099648]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41990.msg1179519#msg1179519 date=1285099228]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41990.msg1179509#msg1179509 date=1285098860]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41990.msg1179508#msg1179508 date=1285098634]
Peter, Farky...

Did you lot not watch last season..? Sunderland away? Portsmouth away? Our European Cup group games? Fulham away? Both Reading games? Last season was an utter disgrace.

And the seasons before that..? In 08/09, for a good half of the season, watching us made my eyes bleed. And the season before that, we all complained about the negative, unadventerous tactics.

Jesus, lads - I get that you dissagree with me, but let's not pretend things are any worse (style-wise) than they've been for much of the past three years. They're not.
[/quote]

Premier League League table for the 2008-2009 season
# Team P W D L F A W D L F A GD Pts
1 Man Utd 38 16 2 1 43 13 12 4 3 25 11 44 90
2 LFC 38 12 7 0 41 13 13 4 2 36 14 50 86
3 Chelsea 38 11 6 2 33 12 14 2 3 35 12 44 83
4 Arsenal 38 11 5 3 31 16 9 7 3 37 21 31 72
5 Everton 38 8 6 5 31 20 9 6 4 24 17 18 63
6 Aston Villa 38 7 9 3 27 21 10 2 7 27 27 6 62
7 Fulham 38 11 3 5 28 16 3 8 8 11 18 5 53
8 Tottenham 38 10 5 4 21 10 4 4 11 24 35 0 51
9 West Ham 38 9 2 8 23 22 5 7 7 19 23 -3 51
10 Man City 38 13 0 6 40 18 2 5 12 18 32 8 50
11 Wigan Ath. 38 8 5 6 17 18 4 4 11 17 27 -11 45
12 Stoke 38 10 5 4 22 15 2 4 13 16 40 -17 45
13 Bolton 38 7 5 7 21 21 4 3 12 20 32 -12 41
14 Portsmouth 38 8 3 8 26 29 2 8 9 12 28 -19 41
15 Blackburn 38 6 7 6 22 23 4 4 11 18 37 -20 41
16 Sunderland 38 6 3 10 21 25 3 6 10 13 29 -20 36
17 Hull City 38 3 5 11 18 36 5 6 8 21 28 -25 35
18 Newcastle 38 5 7 7 24 29 2 6 11 16 30 -19 34
19 Middlesbrough 38 5 9 5 17 20 2 2 15 11 37 -29 32
20 WBA 38 7 3 9 26 33 1 5 13 10 34 -31 32


[/quote]

For the love of God, man... That table doesn't mean that we played Brazilain 1970s football to get there.

For much of September through January, we were abhorent to watch. Then we played good football the rest of the way, which I've already acknowledged.

Oh, and if you're going to throw a league table at me, don't use one that we should have ended up topping, but failed to do so, because of our manager's fear to go out and attack the likes of Hull and Fulham and Stoke and West Ham and a ten-man Arsenal.... That simply proves my point. For much of that season, we played bad, defensive, risk-free, 'don't-lose' football, and got what we ultimately deserved.
[/quote]


That was our BEST SEASON since we won the League in 1990.

Give me 'bad, defensive, risk-free, 'don't-lose' football' every fucking Season if thats the least we get!
[/quote]

You WANT 2nd when we SHOULD have gotten 1st?

No thanks. A little more guts and a little less caution in just two of those pathetic mid-season draws, and we'd have been champions. I'm glad you're satisfied with that. Forgive me if I'm not.

 

[keniget]

Aren't all managers hired and fired by non-footballing 'people' in England?

What am I missing here?

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=rootkit link=topic=41990.msg1179538#msg1179538 date=1285100177]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41990.msg1179507#msg1179507 date=1285098530]
This the same rafa who wanted total control over the first team? Total control over the reserves? Total control over the academy? Total control over transfers?
[/quote]

Firstly, some of that was self evidently his job whilst other parts are not strictly correct. Reserves/Academy were (and still are under Roy Hodgson) delegated to the likes of John McMahon, Jose Segura and Rodolpho Borrell (if you're not sure who he is, look into his CV). Unless you can tell me otherwise, this is normal leadership - you delegate day to day responsibility to others whilst retaining responsibility for the strategy they implement.

Anyway, back to the point and ignoring the red-herring about being a control freak, what is your opinion on the rest of my post you quoted? Are there no concerns at board level? As we've established, there are no qualified football administrators at the club and Hodgson is a 63 year old who, by his own admission, is there to coach players.

Fabio, who is at the steering wheel?
[/quote]

Don't worry i was using hyperbole for effect. Obviously he delegated things, however it was his need for the control to delegate that ultimately cost him. I agree with most of your points however, i just liked the idea of doing a little comments to bunnys post.....

welcome by the way!

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=rootkit link=topic=41990.msg1179538#msg1179538 date=1285100177]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41990.msg1179507#msg1179507 date=1285098530]
This the same rafa who wanted total control over the first team? Total control over the reserves? Total control over the academy? Total control over transfers?
[/quote]

Firstly, some of that was self evidently his job whilst other parts are not strictly correct. Reserves/Academy were (and still are under Roy Hodgson) delegated to the likes of John McMahon, Jose Segura and Rodolpho Borrell (if you're not sure who he is, look into his CV). Unless you can tell me otherwise, this is normal leadership - you delegate day to day responsibility to others whilst retaining responsibility for the strategy they implement.

Anyway, back to the point and ignoring the red-herring about being a control freak, what is your opinion on the rest of my post you quoted? Are there no concerns at board level? As we've established, there are no qualified football administrators at the club and Hodgson is a 63 year old who, by his own admission, is there to coach players.

Fabio, who is at the steering wheel?
[/quote]

No, it's a red herring as you say.

You need good, intelligent decision makers at the top. People who can make deicisons in the long term interest of the club. People involved in football that have those qualities are few and far between - we do seem to have Kenny though.

Chelsea FC have had a lot of success recently, here's a profile of their Board :

http://www.chelseafc.com/page/ClubInfo/0,,10268,00.html


See any footballing experience there ?

 

[Asbo]

Look up 'least' in the dictionary.

As in 'If thats the LEAST we get.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=41990.msg1179547#msg1179547 date=1285100483]
Aren't all managers hired and fired by non-footballing 'people' in England?

What am I missing here?
[/quote]

The brainwashing by SOS by the looks of it

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=41990.msg1179547#msg1179547 date=1285100483]
Aren't all managers hired and fired by non-footballing 'people' in England?

What am I missing here?
[/quote]

No, only us. Cruyff is in charge of managers at west ham, pele is at villa, zubizaretta is at QPR.


or you're right and people need to get over the fact their hatred for the board colours their judgement over the appointment

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=rootkit link=topic=41990.msg1179494#msg1179494 date=1285097738]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=41990.msg1179275#msg1179275 date=1285087154]
It doesn't matter if you're a 'football' person or not. What is equally important is ice cool logic, common sense, rationality, and a decent business mind. If he expects Inter to be run without these factors in mind then he better think again.
[/quote]

Of course it matters.

The attributes you mention are of indeed vital, but all these (bar a business acumen) are required at all levels of an organisation in many walks of life, be it a medicine, IT, armed forces or the sciences.

When you reach executive level you need something more, something that demonstrably sets you apart as a leader. Examples of this being setting strategy, lobbying institutions that govern your industry and using your wealth of experience to give an edge over the competition.

So, back to football. Who of the current LFC board is qualified to set the footballing strategy? Who has that wealth of experience better than Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal and who has the nous to play football politics in the halls of the PL, FA or UEFA?

People can criticise Benitez for his comments and rightly ask questions of the part he played in a dysfunctional management chain, but don't dismiss what he says about the board. It has merit. Ask yourself why a football manager felt the need to shoulder more responsibility than was necessary?

The answer is not because he was a control freak. Leadership comes from the very top and we've been sorely lacking it for years.
[/quote]

I'm not convinced it does, Rootkit. As Brendan alluded to, 'football' people would have probably sacked Benitez too. As for a long-term strategy you may have a point, but I can point to hundreds of 'football' people making fucking awful decisions in the name of their club, and their emotional attachment could possibly be hindering them. Moores giving Houllier another season is one clear example in our recent history.

Make no mistake, I'd put Kenny on the board in a nano-second, because I do think we need someone who *does* 'get' the club on there - but don't think it's as essential as is being made out. For instance I don't think 'football people' good, 'business people' bad - I suspect it's important to get a mix of both.

So far Purslow and Broughton have done nothing to make me hate them. They're easy targets for a lot of people, and they could well end up saving the club from these Yanks.

Whether they're right for us in the long-term is up to debate, but as we all know, right now we have more pressing concerns.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41990.msg1179551#msg1179551 date=1285100562]
Look up 'least' in the dictionary.

As in 'If thats the LEAST we get.
[/quote]

Well, from the position that we found ourselves in around November or so, 2nd probably WAS the least that we could have expected, wasn't it? And boy, did we get the least that we could have...

Shame, 'cos if we'd shown a little balls when leading the bloody thing, we'd have won that league relatively comfortably.

 

[rootkit]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=41990.msg1179547#msg1179547 date=1285100483]
Aren't all managers hired and fired by non-footballing 'people' in England?

What am I missing here?
[/quote]

"non-footballing people" is a misnomer.

There are highly skilled and experienced people in the game that have made a name administering football clubs at board level.

David Dein is a successful football administrator
Martin Edwards is a successful football administrator
Peter Kenyon is a successful football administrator
Daniel Levy is slowly making a name for himself as a football administrator
Freddie Shephard is a cunt

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Rafa, you're gone and got a nice pay out. You quickly got another top job.

Please stop.

 

[rootkit]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41990.msg1179549#msg1179549 date=1285100520]
however it was his need for the control to delegate that ultimately cost him.
[/quote]

Yes, I think you're right. We're looking at the same problem from different angles. For me it was a case of doing it because nobody else was qualified, for you it seems it was an inherent trait (flaw?) in the man.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41990.msg1179535#msg1179535 date=1285100069]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41990.msg1179522#msg1179522 date=1285099532]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41990.msg1179508#msg1179508 date=1285098634]
Peter, Farky...

Did you lot not watch last season..? Sunderland away? Portsmouth away? Our European Cup group games? Fulham away? Both Reading games? Last season was an utter disgrace.

And the seasons before that..? In 08/09, for a good half of the season, watching us made my eyes bleed. And the season before that, we all complained about the negative, unadventerous tactics.

Jesus, lads - I get that you dissagree with me, but let's not pretend things are any worse (style-wise) than they've been for much of the past three years. They're not. The fact that we were more succsessful then seems to make folks forget that our football was awful to watch.
[/quote]



i guess it's just a matter of opinion. in general i thought our style under rafa was about 'OK', better than houllier's, worse than evans's. Fair enough. I think I agree with that.

for what it's worth though, i think 08 & 09 were probably our 2 most 'stylish' seasons under him. torres and gerrard were on fire after xmas 07, and that greatly helped matters, and the whole team often played some some good stuff in 08/09. I think that we looked very good from Feb '09 until the end of the season, but remember being very frustrated at the brand of football we had been playing for a loooong time before that

as so far this year we've been just as terrible to watch as last season, i stand by wat i said before.
[/quote]

I disagree about this year, Citeh aside.

We were decent against Arsenal, played well in patches against united, and were no worse than last season against WBA or Birmingham. Not much better, I'll grant you, but no worse.

And I still think we need to be more patient and wait until around Christmas before judging too harshly... It's been a bastard of a start to the season.
[/quote]


i don't think anyone's claiming that last year was any better than so far this year, we're not mental. i just don't agree that things had been so bad before that - frankly, if you really were worried about how we were playing in the first half of 08/09, i'd find it hard to argue because i was too busy enjoying all the points we were picking up. i know it's not the same thing - style and substance that is - but it really does seem a bit churlish to moan about the football when we were doing so well.


oh, and i can't remember who said it, but i also disagree that the reason we picked up a few too many draws that autumn was down to defensiveness. it wasn't: we went for it, we just lacked the little bit of creativity we always did under rafa. and anyway, those kind of results are no shame anyway - all leading teams run up against 'park the bus' opponents and come unstuck a couple of times a year. i don't think those were the crucial games in losing the title, not half as much as throwing away leads against everton and wigan, and of course the complete freak that was the 4-4 vs arsenal.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41990.msg1179557#msg1179557 date=1285100831]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41990.msg1179551#msg1179551 date=1285100562]
Look up 'least' in the dictionary.

As in 'If thats the LEAST we get.
[/quote]

Well, from the position that we found ourselves in around November or so, 2nd probably WAS the least that we could have expected, wasn't it? And boy, did we get the least that we could have...

Shame, 'cos if we'd shown a little balls when leading the bloody thing, we'd have won that league relatively comfortably.
[/quote]

I actually think the games in hand worked against us that Season, wasn't it something like ManU had 4 - 6 games in hand at one point?

If we'd been level and actually really fighting on a week to week basis, I feel we'd have done better, knowing what was needed.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=rootkit link=topic=41990.msg1179559#msg1179559 date=1285100880]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41990.msg1179547#msg1179547 date=1285100483]
Aren't all managers hired and fired by non-footballing 'people' in England?

What am I missing here?
[/quote]

"non-footballing people" is a misnomer.

There are highly skilled and experienced people in the game that have made a name administering football clubs at board level.

David Dein is a successful football administrator
Martin Edwards is a successful football administrator
Peter Kenyon is a successful football administrator
Daniel Levy is slowly making a name for himself as a football administrator
Freddie Shephard is a cunt
[/quote]

What's to say that the guys we have in charge don't have the potential to be successful football administrators?

Even on RAWK they admit Ayre has done a good job. As for Purslow, the main issues with him appear to be a few false promises in the media and the ill-fated meeting with SOS... nothing per se about his actual ability to do his job effectively.

I freely admit I'm not as well read on the issue as some, so maybe you can tell me why Purslow and Ayre lack the credentials to be good football administrators.

 

[rootkit]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=41990.msg1179570#msg1179570 date=1285101162]
I freely admit I'm not as well read on the issue as some, so maybe you can tell me why Purslow and Ayre lack the credentials to be good football administrators.
[/quote]

Ayres record speaks for itself. He's a commercial director who's delivered in the form of Standard Chartered. Criticism of him is misguided imo.

It's not so much what is there now (i.e. people who have a track record in money), but what is missing.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41990.msg1179567#msg1179567 date=1285101083]
i don't think anyone's claiming that last year was any better than so far this year, we're not mental. i just don't agree that things had been so bad before that - frankly, if you really were worried about how we were playing in the first half of 08/09, i'd find it hard to argue because i was too busy enjoying all the points we were picking up. i know it's not the same thing - style and substance that is - but it really does seem a bit churlish to moan about the football when we were doing so well.


oh, and i can't remember who said it, but i also disagree that the reason we picked up a few too many draws that autumn was down to defensiveness. it wasn't: we went for it, we just lacked the little bit of creativity we always did under rafa. and anyway, those kind of results are no shame anyway - all leading teams run up against 'park the bus' opponents and come unstuck a couple of times a year. i don't think those were the crucial games in losing the title, not half as much as throwing away leads against everton and wigan, and of course the complete freak that was the 4-4 vs arsenal.
[/quote]

I wasn't worried about it at the time, no. Like you, I was hopeful that winning while not playing particularly well would ultimately stand to us in the long run. But now, looking back at the 2nd half of Rafa's tenure, I can recognise that (in my opinion) our football was often poor, unadventerous and defensive.

But we didn't really go for it, did we? In one game, we left Robbie Keane on the bench and brought on Lucas to unlock an unyielding defense. In another, we rested Alonso while Stevie was injured, and by the time he came on, it was almost too late. Again, a draw. Against Wigan, after their late equalizer, with us desperately needing to win, we took off Stevie to bring on Robbie (that's when Rafa lost me). And against an Arsenal already missing Cesc and having seen Adebayor sent off, what did we do, when already in the ascendancy? We took off our goal scorer and left Lucas on, basically settling for the point at halftime, instead of bringing off our DM and attacking a depleted team, ripe for the picking.

You say that none of those games cost us as much as others, played later in the season..? If we'd won just two of them, we'd have been champions. Every one of them cost us, mate.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41990.msg1179568#msg1179568 date=1285101114]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41990.msg1179557#msg1179557 date=1285100831]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41990.msg1179551#msg1179551 date=1285100562]
Look up 'least' in the dictionary.

As in 'If thats the LEAST we get.
[/quote]

Well, from the position that we found ourselves in around November or so, 2nd probably WAS the least that we could have expected, wasn't it? And boy, did we get the least that we could have...

Shame, 'cos if we'd shown a little balls when leading the bloody thing, we'd have won that league relatively comfortably.
[/quote]

I actually think the games in hand worked against us that Season, wasn't it something like ManU had 4 - 6 games in hand at one point?

If we'd been level and actually really fighting on a week to week basis, I feel we'd have done better, knowing what was needed.
[/quote]

I can't accept that, mate. I believe the opposite of your point should have happened... We should have roared into those teams, knowing that, with all the wins that we SHOULD have gotten, even with their games in hand, the task we would have left united would have been daunting.

We simply failed to beat several 'lesser' teams because our formations, tactics and substitutions were far too conservative, and so we dropped the points that ended up costing us the league.

 

[rootkit]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41990.msg1179550#msg1179550 date=1285100561]
Chelsea FC have had a lot of success recently, here's a profile of their Board :

http://www.chelseafc.com/page/ClubInfo/0,,10268,00.html


See any footballing experience there ?
[/quote]

Ah, touche 😉

It's a different (and until City) completely unique model in England though. The club themselves admit they need a long term strategy and cannot live of one man's generosity. If Abramovich walks, what mess would that leave them in?

When you look at the strategy of other clubs such as ourselves (until 2007 anyway), Arsenal and even the mancs, it's based on organic growth. Generate your own revenue and re-invest it in the team and infrastructure (look at how OT expanded in the last 15 years and the revenue it's produced). Chelsea's success so far has come from a mixture of instant capital, incredibly shrewd buying early on and 2 or 3 excellent managers along the way. It worked, but how many clubs can use that model? Not many. You also wonder how sustainable it is.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41990.msg1179525#msg1179525 date=1285099648]

That was our BEST SEASON since we won the League in 1990.

Give me 'bad, defensive, risk-free, 'don't-lose' football' every fucking Season if thats the least we get!
[/quote]

Is the right answer. Imagine winning the league playing like that and people moaning. Win first. Pretty football second.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=41990.msg1179579#msg1179579 date=1285102470]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41990.msg1179525#msg1179525 date=1285099648]

That was our BEST SEASON since we won the League in 1990.

Give me 'bad, defensive, risk-free, 'don't-lose' football' every fucking Season if thats the least we get!
[/quote]

Is the right answer. Imagine winning the league playing like that and people moaning. Win first. Pretty football second.
[/quote]

If we'd won the league, people wouldn't be moaning. And it's because we played like that when opportunity arose, that we didn't win the league.

That's my point.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41990.msg1179580#msg1179580 date=1285102691]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=41990.msg1179579#msg1179579 date=1285102470]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41990.msg1179525#msg1179525 date=1285099648]

That was our BEST SEASON since we won the League in 1990.

Give me 'bad, defensive, risk-free, 'don't-lose' football' every fucking Season if thats the least we get!
[/quote]

Is the right answer. Imagine winning the league playing like that and people moaning. Win first. Pretty football second.
[/quote]

If we'd won the league, people wouldn't be moaning. And it's because we played like that when opportunity arose, that we didn't win the league.

That's my point.
[/quote]

Oh right. So what are we all arguing about again?

 

[gene hughes]

What he's trying to say Sheik is that we didn't win because of the fact that we didn't win and we played that way because of the way we played. Playing the way we played meant that we didn't the games we didn't win so we didn't win the league but if we hadn't played the way we played and had played a different way from the way we played then we might have won games that we didn't win and no one would have complained then.

 

[manwithnoname]

Some Paddies with an NVQ in fast-food franchise legal issues are quacking on about the benefits of non-football executive board members making calling the shots

It's funny like potato famine